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[CaptainZaysh]

Thanks, Ieldra. I actually asked Dean what he thought about Miranda's role in ME3 in PMs, and he gave me permission to post his thoughts here.

Dean The Young wrote...


I'll be blunt: I don't particularly like Miranda. Or rather, I don't like how the Bioware writers wrote Miranda.

It's not that I don't think she has (had) potential, but as a character she was all over the place. And a tsundere, in a rather sexist game packed with tsundere characters. (If you don't know what a tsundere is, TV tropes can tell you). Miranda has a lot of characteristics I could find interesting and enjoy in a character, but consistently has them subverted with other traits that I can only tolerate in so many characters.

A cool, aloof woman who turns into a softe when the chips are down (redundant by this point).
A Cerberus Loyalist who comes to doubt the cause and ultimately quit over moral qualms (that are pretty minor at the time).
A utilitarian ethics advocate who abandons them for... really not much besides 'tainted' ethical objections that would have already applied in her life.
A rare individual not awed and enamored with Commander Shepard, who becomes another of Shepard's cheerleading nigh-sycophants.
An attractive woman who became an in-your-camera sexualization parody of a 'strong woman'.
Someone who was cerebral, to another tsundere.


Miranda was someone who could have stood on her own, but became Just Another Shepard Fan and lost most of her distinguishing traits. Some people liked those changes, mind you, but I didn't. Especially with the conclusion of her leaving Cerberus for Shepard, I couldn't really get behind her. Then when it came to ME3, her relevance to Cerberus became virtually irrelevant, and in between apologizing for something she already told us and fretting over her sister, she just retread old ground.

Was not impressed in the least. Now, if she had been an antagonist in ME3, or better yet, a traitor...

Lord knows I think that just about any change in the Cerberus storyline of ME3 would have been for the better, and Miranda remaining a part of them would have been one. Normally I'd jump on any excuse to plot out another Cerberus role in ME3, but here I'll try and stay on target.

Miranda faking her 'development' in ME2 to win Shepard's trust would have been a brilliant reversal. A retcon, to be sure, and abhorred by many of her fans, but done right it could have been a great subversion of player expectations, especially if her betrayal also came in the context of her being a seemingly-permanent squadmate. Hear me out while I sketch the scenario, because you wouldn't even need to break Miranda's character that much.


Imagine this is your first playthrough. By and large, imagine that Miranda replaces James Vega.

Miranda is an early-game figure, right from the start. Rather than run away after Shepard turns him/herself in, Miranda turns herself in as well: partly as a member of Shepard's crew, but also as either a way to protect herself from Cerberus (if you destroyed the base and she's willing to give up intel on Cerberus), or as a quasi-emissionary from Cerberus who helps 'coordinate' Cerberus-Alliance preparations from the Reapers or coordinates Collector technology 'gifts' from the Illusive Man for the Alliance. Either way, she's suspected but gives too useful of things for the Alliance to do away with. When the intro starts, Miranda is at the Committee as well, another 'yup, it's Reapers.' When the Reapers attack, Miranda is there for the tutorial along with Anderson. Miranda may be involved in the vent kid scene, but makes it to the Normandy.


Come Mars, Miranda seems surprised by the Cerberus involvement: either in seeming denial of not being told (Base kept), or not being aware of the Cerberus presence in the Mars archives (Base destroyed). The Virmire Survivor's hostile suspicion is fixated on Miranda, rather than Shepard, and Shepard more or less plays mediator between the two, earning the VS's suspicion as well. Miranda leaves ala James, volunteering (or being told to) in order to ease the tension. Shadow Broker Liara, in part due to services rendered by Miranda in helping her/Shepard, actually vouches for Miranda's ignorance/innocence on grounds of having Miranda under constant surveillance since Shepard returned to the Alliance.

EDI bot chase, yada yada, Miranda survives a controlled crash because she's just that good, yada yada, Miranda feels sad that she couldn't stop the bot's transmission in time, yada, VS injured. Run to Citadel.

Congratulations: Miranda is now a permanent party member, the party Sentinel.


Miranda's companion arc is a Disc One storyline, similar to Thane. Her character arc focuses heavily on the role of Cerberus, her feelings of being adrift at the turn Cerberus has taken, and her hope that there is some Bigger Picture that Cerberus is trying for. Though, as a Shepard-supporter, she doesn't condone Cerberus, she offers prospective rationals on Cerberus actions, such as why Cerberus fears the Krogan so much (Tuchanka bomb/genophage), as well as pointing out the less-than-noble parts of the Citadel species that justifies Cerberus. She's a big voice of 'Cerberus is wrong now, but justified,' and makes the case that all those Cerberus advances could have been great gains/good things.

Miranda is even 'friendly' with the various crew members, being one of the few people Liara allows in her room (where Miranda gives tips on being a Broker), commiserating with Garrus about the pain of not being able to help their species, and musing on past Cerberus ties with EDI. If Vega is still around somehow, Miranda's Assets are probably mentioned when Vega tries to insert dirty jokes. Overall, Miranda is pretty much end-ME2 Miranda: sympathetic, warm to Shepard, and with the emphasis on being capable rather than being a ****.

The ending piece of her arc, turning into a Big Decision, is her request to use 'Alliance resources' for unclear reasons. A big appeal to trust here.


And then the Citadel coup occurs. Miranda isn't a required squadmate, but if she isn't with Shepard she's helping C-SEC.

If Kai Leng exists, it's largely here and here alone: the Cerberus assassin who takes out the Salarian Councilor (or not), who threatens the rest of the Council, and who Shepard spends the last half of the level chasing as the Big Threat, with Miranda helping guide Shepard through prepared Cerberus forces. It's Miranda who uncovers that Udina must be behind it all, marking the race between Shepard and Kai Leng to the Council. Shepard beats Kai Leng up the elevator even as Miranda arrives to help, and Udina denies the charge and blames Miranda for the Cerberus attack. The Virmire Survivor, always distrustful of Miranda, is torn while the rest of the Council huddles in fear.


What emerges is a four-way standoff: Shepard and Miranda against the VS and Udina. Miranda is urging ending Udina, Shepard believes Miranda, and the Virmire Surivor is torn between distrust of Miranda/Cerberus and faith in Shepard.

Shepard has three options, two of which result in the death of Udina the accused traitor. Shepard can kill the Virmire Survivor first, can persuade the Virmire Survivor that Udina is the real threat (persuade), or Shepard can stand down first.

If Shepard focuses on Udina as the threat, Udina dies, possibly along with Ashley or Kaiden. If Shepard stands down, however, Udina and Ashley stand down as well.

Regardless, however, shots break the return of the calm: the other two Councilors collapse, revealing Miranda holding the (literally) smoking gun, Kai Leng beside her. Miranda comments on the showdown, saying how she had hoped she could get Shepard, the VS, and Udina to kill each other, and comments on how successful that happened to be. Regardless, the Cerberus coup has just become an overwhelming success with the deaths of the alien Councilors, without whom the other races won't be able to coordinate their own defenses against the Reapers.

Shepard is understandably aghast at this, and Miranda moves into exposition bombshell mode: she never left Cerberus, Shepard winning her loyalty and 'converting' her was all an act on her part (insert a jibe at players here, for thinking that everyone is won over by Cmndr Shepard), and that this betrayal, if not this coup, has been years in the making, even before Shepard's revival.

Shepard and Virmire Survivor, if alive, try to take revenge, but Cerberus Gunship provides covering fire and Miranda makes a perfect exit. Kai Leng, in a show of Miranda villainy, has his control chip activated and is ordered to fight Shepard to buy time for her excape. Bye bye Kai Leng.


Miranda is now the personal antagonist to TIM's organizational antagonist. Miranda is there at Thessia, at Sanctuary, and ultimately at the Cerberus base. All the while, she's a personal nemesis: mocking Shepard/the player for being fooled (insert appeals to male masculinity at a pretty smile), saying that Oriana was just a fake scenario concocted by Cerberus, and romanced players have it worse in heart break city. The player can try and try again to challenge Miranda on this, but she really is a Cerberus Loyalist. Come Cerberus Base, where the Big Decision is whether to kill her or not, and many will relish the chance...

Before learning that while Miranda may be a Loyalist, she isn't a total ****. Just like Miranda acted to pretending to be your friend, she acted in being your antagonist. How much, depends on ME2. Without going into 'she really is a sap after all', Miranda's true feelings could vary between genuine animosity to regret, depending on choices. The biggest factors, of course, are her loyalty, loyalty mission, and romance.

If you never did her loyalty mission at all, or sided with Jack in the confrontation, Miranda really does hate you. True fact. In the Cerberus base video recordings, she is even eager for the upcoming betrayal.

If you did her loyalty mission and kept her loyalty, one fact that comes out is that while the Illusive Man did orchestrate Oriana's near-abduction in ME2, Miranda's own feelings for Oriana are actually genuine. While a personal debt is not enough to overrule her Loyalist nature, Miranda does feel regret for having to fight you: enough to wish it was otherwise, that you could have been trusted enough to be included.

If you romanced her, then and only then does Miranda actually come close to rebelling. A romanced Miranda really does love Shepard, assuming Shepard hasn't moved on, and a telling video on the Cerberus Base is that the Illusive Man dangled the threat to Oriana, always under Cerberus protection, over Miranda to ensure compliance. After her defeat and before her potential execution, Miranda here and only here sincerely apologizes for what she had to do to Shepard.



Miranda's execution, versus letting her go and her escaping, is a choice of the Cerberus base... but Miranda's role doesn't quite end here. In no scenario does Miranda flee Cerberus to join Shepard, but she had further value to the Illusive Man than just to spy and betray Shepard.

Miranda is the Illusive Man's counter-indoctrination gambit. While he needed the Reaper implants to orchestrate his strategy to his needs, he wasn't unaware of the risks of indoctrination. If, when, he falls, Miranda is the backup: the backup controller of indoctrinated Cerberus troops, of the Illusive Man should he falter, and the one intended to take Control of the Reapers.


The last role for Cerberus, Miranda and the Illusive Man, is on the Citadel. Key variables are if you spared Miranda or not, and the Collector Base. Sparing Miranda allows her to sacrifice herself (instead of you) for a Control ending. Keeping the Collector Base allows the Illusive Man to remain non-indoctrinated, and to escape like a Karmic Houdini.

If you killed Miranda and destroyed the base, the Illusive Man, indoctrinated as he is, attempts to take personal control of the Reapers ala canon. It works about as well, and he fails.

If you killed Miranda and kept the Base, the Illusive Man's better understanding of Reaper Implant technology allows him to fight off Indoctrination. In the controntation between him and Anderson, you can side with the Illusive Man, and you and he can go on to choose Control.

If you spare Miranda and destroy the Base, Miranda kills the indoctrinated Illusive Man, and Anderson. Miranda goes to the Catalyst with you, and if you choose Control she can take Control for you. Depending on affection level, and she might demand Control herself (hatred), be persuaded not to oppose you if you choose something other than Control but volunteer if you do (regret), and not pick a fight at all but sacrifice herself Alistair-style for any other ending (love).

Sparing Miranda and Keeping the Base is much the same, except the Illusive Man lives as well, escaping to rebuild Cerberus.

[CDS923]

If I am Miranda, my first question is: "Why am I wearing pants?"

[SpartenN7]

Shopping for Swimwear (:

[xsdob]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Arken wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

shepdog77 wrote...

Vigorously grab my buttocks over and over again.

Then go in front of mirror and just bounce it up and down for a while.

Then I'd go to the Normandy, and use Shepard's position as a Spectre to find safety as well as find information on Oriana.

Once I find out Liara is the Shadow Broker, which is inevitable since Liara is terrible at keeping secrets or doing her job, I'd use Liara to find out everything on Henry Lawson.

I'd also provide Shepard with useful information on Cerberus.

And sleep with Jacob. AFTER I find out his girlfriend is pregnant.

^ This ^ Except for the Jacob part, because eww. Renegade bullet to the face or airlock walk sounds good though.

[BigEvil]

If I'm Miranda then I'm spending all of my time, resources and skills to hide from Taboo-XX.

[Taboo]

Should I believe that I've been stricken?
Does my face show some kind of glow?

This thread is also monstrously inappropriate.

[DistantUtopia]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Thanks, Ieldra. I actually asked Dean what he thought about Miranda's role in ME3 in PMs, and he gave me permission to post his thoughts here.

Dean The Young wrote...

That's actually quite a scenario.  I approve!

[Dean_the_Young]

In the spirit of on-topicness, a post from a PM with a friend...

---Edit: oops, did see you do it Zaysh!

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 17 juillet 2012 - 12:48 .

[Ieldra]

@CaptainZaysh, Dean:
That would have been an impressive storyline. An emotional rollercoaster for her fans, sure, but I would've loved it - except the "love" end. I'm ok with Shepard's death, but it's important Miranda lives in the galaxy I created.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 17 juillet 2012 - 04:11 .

[jtav]

Dean, that was fantastic. This fan would have adored it.

[CCarmichael007]

DocGriffin wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Gotten a breast reduction.

Gotten a plot reduction.


...oh wait, they did that.

I tip my hat to you sir...

[Nitrocuban]

Posted pics of my bum on the interwebs

[MetioricTest]

Speezy wrote...

Can I be a different character?

Sure you can be Adams

[DarkenRevan]

Well since it's in 3rd person, I'd look at her spandex butt all day haha

Modifié par DarkenRevan, 11 août 2012 - 10:35 .

[Tritium315]

Masterbate.

[wafflez]

I would [censored] and keep [censored] until I [censored] then to top it off I would grab my [censored] and [censored]

[F4H bandicoot]

Get in the kitchen.

[themikefest]

I would've thrown Liara off the ship to get my office back

[wright1978]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Thanks, Ieldra. I actually asked Dean what he thought about Miranda's role in ME3 in PMs, and he gave me permission to post his thoughts here.

Dean The Young wrote...

Personally can't stand that scenario. Really can't stand the cheap twist involved. 

For me Miranda needed to represent the other side of Cerberus. TIM and his goons represent its excesses, Miranda should be representing its nobler side. Have her arc being about building a faction of Cerberus operatives opposing TIM excesses(there's already that last minute addition of her cerberus renegades). In the midst of this the oriana rescue can happen at Sanctuary with a proper and more detailed confrontation with the father. She and her forces will then join Shep for the Cronos attack if she lives.

[Linksys17]

Have a camera following my ass at all times
And maybe get google to pay me for putting ads on each cheek

[BigGuy28]

Get a room with mirror lined walls and do unspeakable things to myself. Maybe help Shepard if I can fit it into my busy schedule.

[Chuvvy]

Take as many dicks as possible because that's what glorified fleshlights do.

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

This has been brought up in the Mirimancer thread before. She doesn't do anything in ME3 when she was ME2's poster child and should have had a huge role in the Cerberus Arc.

Her survival of ME3 also has no pay off.

I realize this quote is pretty old but I agree.

Cerberus basically turns into the main antagonists in ME3 (reapers? Pfffttt), so Miranda would have been a perfect squadmate and could have been involved a hell of a lot more. Sadly, it appears Bioware got lazy or ran out of time to give her a bigger role, much like a lot of the squadmates from previous games.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong here but it's a bit of a joke that, even after the events of ME2 (Miranda resigning), the Illusive man is still at the same location lol... A location where Miranda is seen at the very beginning of ME2, yet during ME3 no one seems to know where this base is...