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Scenario: You are Miranda Lawson


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#176
Rhayak

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o Ventus wrote...
Hackett has never even seen Shepard up until Arrival, and even then he greatly commends Shepard for the mission.


That doesn't factor in. In a SB dossier there is a message where an Alliance officer asks authorization to detain and interrogate Shepard, and Hackett says no. This shows that Hackett does support him, but only personally. The Alliance as a whole wants nothing to do with him except prosecution.

Not that it matters anyway since Shepard is a Spectre and the Alliance has no legal authority over him/her.


Unless you die, which you do. And not all Shepards have their Spectre status reinstated before Mass 3.

Also, in the middle of an intragalactic apocalypse, you have to be literally retarded to deny legitimate help from somebody just because they used to affiliate with a criminal group, unless you value your public image over your life.


I know right? They've been choosing their political image over everything they love for a whole trilogy.

But in the scenario we are considering, one where Miranda convinces Shepard to NOT turn himself in, he is STILL a terrorist cooperating with criminals, not formerly suspected as such.

On the contrary: NOT turning himself in would ENORMOUSLY reinforce and forever confirm that image in the eyes of the Galaxy.

Perhaps factions like the Krogan, Geth, Rachni and Terminus might not give a damn, but i think you barely make minimum EMS with those (can't expect to rely on N7 squads if you're a terrorist criminal).

Modifié par Rhayak, 01 avril 2013 - 08:52 .


#177
CrutchCricket

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Rhayak wrote...
Enlisting any civilization's help might prove tricky while flying both criminal and terrorist flags....

Funny how the "criminals" in ME3 make for the most sensible leaders in the war...

And you're just ignoring all sorts of little details aren't you? Things like having the damn Shadow Broker on your side, who as we're told has dirt on everyone and "can start wars in 10 minutes". Oh, and let's see who else can vouch for Shepard:

An asari justicar whose word is law among her people and whose judgements are never questioned
A top tier former STG salarian doctor
The leader of the Krogan (or most prominent krogan clan but in the end, that's the same thing)
The quarian Admiralty Board
The True Geth
Aria T'Loak who as we've seen has considerable pull even in politics
Anderson and Hackett

Sounds to me like the only major faction you don't automatically have on your side regardless is the Turians.

I think we'll be fine.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 01 avril 2013 - 09:45 .


#178
Rhayak

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CrutchCricket wrote...
Funny how the "criminals" in ME3 make for the most sensible leaders in the war.


ME2 too. But we can't deny that playing the stuck-up politician gets you the biggest fleets.

#179
CrutchCricket

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Rhayak wrote...
ME2 too. But we can't deny that playing the stuck-up politician gets you the biggest fleets.

It's crap. And it's crap because they wrote it that way. At the end of ME2 you could've founded your own galactic superpower. Turing yourself in and wasting 6 months while the Reapers bear down on you is retarded.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 01 avril 2013 - 09:47 .


#180
David7204

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So what would you suggest, exactly?

You can't have Shepard doing anything meaningful between the games because players will (rightfully) complain that they should have been a part of it. Look at all the complaints over Vega - players complaining they should have been a part of his first meeting with Shepard. Multiply that x100.

And please, not a useless suggestion like "I would research technology" or "I would learn more about the Reapers." Yeah, that's great. How about a little more context on that?

Oh, and of course, this all actually has to be integrated into the story, so I need to know when it occurs.

Modifié par David7204, 01 avril 2013 - 09:54 .


#181
Rhayak

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CrutchCricket wrote...
It's crap. And it's crap because they wrote it that way. At the end of ME2 you could've founded your own galactic superpower. Turing yourself in and wasting 6 months while the Reapers bear down on you is retarded.


How so? You certainly had a huge team and subsequently developed a vast network of contacts, but that doesn't make a superpower. Even the Shadow Broker can't put together the fleets you get to gather by legal diplomatic contacts. Plus there is the possibility that TIM is mad at you and won't lend a single fighter.

Anyway, in BW's tale, bowing your head to the trial is the only way you can get inept politicians to give you their big fleets.

Aaaaaand the loop closes.

#182
MisterJB

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Tell Kai Leng how to get on the Citadel. Subsequently, warn Shepard of the incoming coup so he can be there to save the Council. The Council, upon seeing that the Citadel is not as safe as they believed, will become more commited to the war effort.

#183
CrutchCricket

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Rhayak wrote...
How so? You certainly had a huge team and subsequently developed a vast network of contacts, but that doesn't make a superpower. Even the Shadow Broker can't put together the fleets you get to gather by legal diplomatic contacts. Plus there is the possibility that TIM is mad at you and won't lend a single fighter.

You have a stealth ship and a whole crew of badasses. You have an impgregnable position at the Collector base which only Cerberus can reach (you need to fix that but dealing with Cerberus is another issue).

You can make the deal with Aria and get the Terminus Fleets early.

Instead of twiddling your thumbs in a cell, you're available to work with the Quarians and Geth before they go full retard and go to war and thus get both their fleets at full strength (including the geth Dyson sphere)

Need I say more? You can already singlehandedly start conquering Council Space if you were so inclined. But there's no need. Use Aria and Samara to get the asari on your side, work with Mordin to get the salarians, work with them (minus the dalatrass) to cure the genophage and get the krogan. Start looking for the rachni early enough and you might even get them without having to fight Ravagers and worry about whether the queen can be trusted. Who's left? The turians? Garrus provides some advantage but not as much as other teammates. Blackmail them with the Tuchanka bomb? A possibility but you don't need to go that far. Turians are smart enough to realize which way the wind's blowing. Especially once the Reapers actually hit.

And all this without even taking into account the influence the Shadow Broker can wield. She may not command fleets directly, but she'll get'em for you sooner or later using every means that is sly, slippery and seductive.

"BW's tale" is a jumbled mess of a missed opportunity. I know how it goes down. I'm talking about how it should've gone down.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 01 avril 2013 - 10:18 .


#184
David7204

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I see either one of two possibilities for you suggestion.

The galaxy makes a bunch of preparations and successfully takes on the Reapers when they arrive. The war is over with in a few days. It's an incredibly hollow and unsatisfying victory, since the Reapers have been built up for three games and it all turns out to be basically nothing. So that's an awful idea.

The galaxy makes a bunch of preparations and is still overwhelmed by the Reapers. All of the effort and heroism that went into uniting the galaxy was clearly completely meaningless - they got curb-stomped anyway. Everything we did was a complete waste, really. All those themes of unity, courage, and heroism? Nope. They count for nothing. Shepard now has half a game to solve the central conflict instead of a whole game, with only a fraction of the resources - after all, most of the galactic fighting force is already crippled. Who else is there to turn to? So that's an awful idea.

No, this is garbage. Incredibly awful storytelling. Making you should think a little deeper on what makes a good story?

Modifié par David7204, 01 avril 2013 - 10:37 .


#185
Merchant2006

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Take my clothes off and stare at my delicious butt.

A very productive day indeed.

#186
Rhayak

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Terminus, Rachni, Geth and Quarian fleets. Ok.
As i said earlier, even by adding the Krogan that barely goes past minimum EMS.

Attempting to conquer council space? Really? Against the Palaven armada? That's suicide and spells certain death for the galaxy. Besides, that would unite the council races even more than the Reaper threat. Except against you.

Samara and Aria can't get you an Asari alliance. Sure Aria can phone the councillor and skip bureaucracy but there's an ocean between that and mobilizing Thessia.
Justicars are trusted as.... justicars, but couldn't be more external to political matters. Plus a majority of the Asari themselves see them as dangerous weirdos.

Mordin is a revered secret agent but hardly important on a political level. The Dalatrass is more than ready to sacrifice him to you. Much like M wouldn't think twice about sacrificing Bond for England's sake.

Garrus does indeed become a respected and commanding figure within the Turian army.... but only if he parts ways with you AFTER you turn himself in. Otherwise he remains stuck being vice-Shepard.
The Turian are definitely able to see the best path to take, but still they can't follow you if their allies see you as a criminal.
And....Tuchanka bomb? Seriously? The Krogan can find out about it on their own, and then either DIE or disarm it and then go to war against the Turians. The consequences of which would be apocalyptic.
(also, remember that, even if you end up with that **** Wreav in charge, you STILL have to go through a diplomatic meeting with Turian and Salarian forces, none of which would ever deal with a terrorist criminal, in order to get the Krogan alliance).

Finally, the Shadow Broker might get you a few ships, but they'll never truly be a match for government navies. She can 'spark a war', but that can only mean a very minor conflict. Superpowers will always prefer negotiation and require more than misinformation to declare war against each other. Now THAT would be retarded if they did.


Bottom line: no. Any major action by an unlawful Shepard would only achieve plunging the galaxy into further disarray. Even going as far as triggering a major war between your assets and those who would preemptively attack you, or at least demand you stop doing what you're doing, because they see your massing armada as a potential threat.

Reaper heaven.

EDIT: saw your previous post's edit.

No, i ain't "ignoring all sorts of little details". I'm considering them all and their combined outcome is catastrophe. There is no way a rebel Shepard can achieve true unity.

Modifié par Rhayak, 01 avril 2013 - 11:08 .


#187
C9316

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Squeeze my ass. :3

#188
Straw Nihilist

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C9316 wrote...

Squeeze my ass. :3



#189
DeathScepter

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o Ventus wrote...

Rhayak wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...
Well When a civilization is in danger, i don't think they would care whom saves them as long as they get saved. Combining resources of the Cerberus and Shadow Broker, I am sure they can bring in some favors or have more reasonable people in power. Garrus, Tali and Mordin are more reasonable than others within their species.


Yeah but those actually in charge are not. They will never associate, or wish to be known to associate to, a Shepard who represents a terrorist organization in league with a crime syndicate. No matter how dirty they are themselves (and they are).

One of the biggest problems Shepard has to deal with in the trilogy is politicians wishing to avoid s**tstorms, and letting the galaxy be doomed in the process.


Anderson and Hackett both backed Shepard just fine in ME2.


Anderson and Hackett are well respected within the Alliance military moreso than Shepard could.  Well Reapers on doorstep can change a lot of opinions.

#190
CrutchCricket

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Rhayak wrote...

Terminus, Rachni, Geth and Quarian fleets. Ok.
As i said earlier, even by adding the Krogan that barely goes past minimum EMS.

Attempting to conquer council space? Really? Against the Palaven armada? That's suicide and spells certain death for the galaxy. Besides, that would unite the council races even more than the Reaper threat. Except against you.

Re-read that part of the codex/wiki that talks about the geth fleets. Then add the quarians. Then the Terminus. You're already unbeatable by any other faction. The rachni are a bonus. So yeah, turians have nothing. Remember how the geth roflstomped the Citadel fleets in the first game? Yeah and that was just the Heretics which are only a small fraction of the geth. And no, it wasn't just because of Sovereign. There's a reason no one ****s with the geth.

Samara and Aria can't get you an Asari alliance. Sure Aria can phone the councillor and skip bureaucracy but there's an ocean between that and mobilizing Thessia.
Justicars are trusted as.... justicars, but couldn't be more external to political matters. Plus a majority of the Asari themselves see them as dangerous weirdos.

Asari never question a justicar's orders. The game tells you this. When Shepard asks what gives a justicar her authority the asari port worker just looks at him like he sprouted a second head. Normal law-abiding asari can't even conceptualize not trusting a justicar's judgement. If Samara says Shepard is ok, the asari will believe her.
You're also underestimating what skipping bureaucracy means.

Mordin is a revered secret agent but hardly important on a political level. The Dalatrass is more than ready to sacrifice him to you. Much like M wouldn't think twice about sacrificing Bond for England's sake.

The dalatrass can be bypassed. And should've been if they had any time to really plan this **** out. Mordin would give you the low-down on who you do need to talk to.

Garrus does indeed become a respected and commanding figure within the Turian army.... but only if he parts ways with you AFTER you turn himself in. Otherwise he remains stuck being vice-Shepard.
The Turian are definitely able to see the best path to take, but still they can't follow you if their allies see you as a criminal.
And....Tuchanka bomb? Seriously? The Krogan can find out about it on their own, and then either DIE or disarm it and then go to war against the Turians. The consequences of which would be apocalyptic.
(also, remember that, even if you end up with that **** Wreav in charge, you STILL have to go through a diplomatic meeting with Turian and Salarian forces, none of which would ever deal with a terrorist criminal, in order to get the Krogan alliance).

I was thinking more of his dad. The real pull Garrus achieved was due to his father. He doesn't need to go anywhere to talk to good ol' dad. And even if he does need to leave, that has nothing to do with Shepard's situation. Maybe calibrations will get a little behind but hey, what can you do.

The turians can be blackmailed with the bomb's discovery. Victus refused to talk about it in front of Wrex. Why's that you think? Because it would cause an incident. An incident they'd rather avoid. In exchange for what? Oh nothing much. Just stop dicking around and arm up. That's all Shepard's message. Arm yourselves and be ready. Oh and pro tip: even if all turians absolutely hate Shepard, if they think he's going to invade, guess what they're going to do? Arm the **** up. Then when the Reapers show up they won't get caught with their pants down. Like they did. All Shepard needs to do then is go "I told you so" and then point to where they should shoot.

Finally, the Shadow Broker might get you a few ships, but they'll never truly be a match for government navies. She can 'spark a war', but that can only mean a very minor conflict. Superpowers will always prefer negotiation and require more than misinformation to declare war against each other. Now THAT would be retarded if they did.

You really dont get how political tensions work do you? You make it seem as if A is hinting at war with B, B gets wind of this and arms up for war with A, they're all arming up and getting prepared... and then the Reapers hit.

Better to already have a gun in your hand than to scramble for it while your buddies are already getting melted.

Bottom line: no. Any major action by an unlawful Shepard would only achieve plunging the galaxy into further disarray. Even going as far as triggering a major war between your assets and those who would preemptively attack you, or at least demand you stop doing what you're doing, because they see your massing armada as a potential threat.

Bottom line, you're severely misinformed and under entirely wrong presumptions.

Oh, and final bomb drop- all this massing and preparing and sparking tensions to force preparations? No one even neeeds to know Shepard's behind it. :bandit:Boom.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 02 avril 2013 - 03:24 .


#191
xMellowhype

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Kill Liara. This however applies to every ME character.

#192
snakeboy86

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I'd send shepard Naked photos of myself and if he's with liara, ash or Tali

I'd put on the on bottom "You Could Have Had all this"

#193
PwrdOff

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xMellowhype wrote...

Kill Liara. This however applies to every ME character.


That's being saved for the upcoming DLC - Airlock of the Shadow Broker.

#194
Admiral Lawson

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BNN999 wrote...

xMellowhype wrote...

Kill Liara. This however applies to every ME character.


That's being saved for the upcoming DLC - Airlock of the Shadow Broker.



I can't even breath right now.
I would have made Javik the ruler of the Galaxy if he had just tossed her out the airlock.

#195
HiddenInWar

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Tealjaker94 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

pose for fornax

I don't think Fornax uses humans.


Not with that attitude.

#196
xMellowhype

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BNN999 wrote...

xMellowhype wrote...

Kill Liara. This however applies to every ME character.


That's being saved for the upcoming DLC - Airlock of the Shadow Broker.


I'd spend 60 bucks just for that. 

#197
Argolas

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Miranda Lawson helped a great deal with learning what was going on in "Sanctuary". I also can't blame her for caring about her sister. I would have done the same if I was her.

#198
Dude_in_the_Room

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Action: I am Miranda Lawson

Reaction: I touch myself a lot.

#199
CitizenThom

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Made myself a little bit more conspicuous for all the Mr Sheppard love interests out there.

#200
Titus Thongger

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worn some armour so a single shot from her pistol-wielding father wouldn't have eviscerated her innards