232 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Asari never question a justicar's orders. The game tells you this. When Shepard asks what gives a justicar her authority the asari port worker just looks at him like he sprouted a second head. Normal law-abiding asari can't even conceptualize not trusting a justicar's judgement. If Samara says Shepard is ok, the asari will believe her.

Law-abiding asari never question a justicar's orders. The entire cabal of asari rulers who know about the beacon is, by definition, not obeying the law. And, after all, a justicar's job is so very dangerous, particularly when trying to meddle in fully political matters.

[Rhayak]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Re-read that part of the codex/wiki that talks about the geth fleets. Then add the quarians. Then the Terminus. You're already unbeatable by any other faction. The rachni are a bonus. So yeah, turians have nothing.

You have to BEAT THE REAPERS, not "any other faction". And you CAN'T DO IT with those guys alone. Unless you wish to settle for Bad Destroy ending. Rebel Shepard = NO UNITY. God you're thick. 

Also, the Turians have nothing? Right. Except more dreadnoughts than anyone. Duh. Salarians and Asari also might be packing something substantial. Just might.

Remember how the geth roflstomped the Citadel fleets in the first game? Yeah and that was just the Heretics which are only a small fraction of the geth. And no, it wasn't just because of Sovereign. There's a reason no one ****s with the geth.

That was just the Citadel's defense force. The Geth took it completely by surprise, managed to get into close range immediately and overwhelmed the long-range-based Dreadnoughts and the Ascension.
And.... although it wasn't "just because of Sovereign", not taking it into equation is laughable at best.

Also, the Alliance fleet intervened and wiped out pretty much all remaining Geth ships by itself. Sovereign too. So much for no one f***ing with them

Asari never question a justicar's orders. The game tells you this. When Shepard asks what gives a justicar her authority the asari port worker just looks at him like he sprouted a second head. Normal law-abiding asari can't even conceptualize not trusting a justicar's judgement. If Samara says Shepard is ok, the asari will believe her.

Someone else already shot this point down, however: if this was the case, and it's not, still Samara's word wouldn't be as welcomed by Turians and Salarians (or anyone else, really. Remember a rebel Shepard doesn't even have the humans on his side). Therefore, the Asari couldn't afford to ally with Shepard as that would jeopardize the very integrity of, you know, the GALACTIC GOVERNMENT.

you're also underestimating what skipping bureaucracy means.

No. It is you who are GROSSLY overestimating it if you think it's enough to get the Asari alliance. Aria has friends in high places and hasn't been taken down because he runs her business outside territorial waters, but that's it.

Had she asked the Turian or Salarian councillor the same favor, they would've given her the middle finger, if anything.

The dalatrass can be bypassed. And should've been if they had any time to really plan this **** out. Mordin would give you the low-down on who you do need to talk to.

Blah blah blah. Making up a hypothetical story is no match for game facts. Also, "who to talk to?" You think governing entire sectors of space is like running a back-alley petty crime range?
Curing the Genophage gets you a little help from dissident S.T.G.s, but only the Dalatrass can give you the REAL Salarian forces.

I was thinking more of his dad. The real pull Garrus achieved was due to his father. He doesn't need to go anywhere to talk to good ol' dad. And even if he does need to leave, that has nothing to do with Shepard's situation. Maybe calibrations will get a little behind but hey, what can you do.

That goes against everything ever said about the Turians not being very cool on nepotism. Skipped a few dialogues, have we?

The turians can be blackmailed with the bomb's discovery. Victus refused to talk about it in front of Wrex. Why's that you think? Because it would cause an incident. An incident they'd rather avoid. In exchange for what? Oh nothing much. Just stop dicking around and arm up. That's all Shepard's message. Arm yourselves and be ready. Oh and pro tip: even if all turians absolutely hate Shepard, if they think he's going to invade, guess what they're going to do? Arm the **** up. Then when the Reapers show up they won't get caught with their pants down. Like they did. All Shepard needs to do then is go "I told you so" and then point to where they should shoot.

Clearly. And in the meantime Cerberus troops, under TIM's unchanging agenda, dig up the bomb anyway. The Turians fail to disarm it because you'd rather blackmail them (providing they ever submit to it) than help Victus' son (as doing so would mean keeping Cerberus from re-digging it up, and therefore allowing the Krogan to find out about it themselves), and then KABOOM. No Krogan support, and the Turians now despise you even more. Sleek work.

(also, you never talked to Victus because the Turian councillor did not even want to talk to you and give you the lead to Menae. Remember, you're a terrorist criminal).

You really dont get how political tensions work do you? You make it seem as if A is hinting at war with B, B gets wind of this and arms up for war with A.

You really enjoy misunderstanding posts do you? I said that WOULD work, but only with minor factions. Good luck inciting tensions between the Council races just by spreading lies. 

Also, even if they arm-race to prepare for a possible war, the single civilizations will never be able to beat the Reapers unless they BAND TOGETHER.
But wait, now they can't because you made them fear each other! Whoops!

Bottom line, you're severely misinformed and under entirely wrong presumptions.

No, they are "wrong" in your head just because they're different than yours, which are a pitiful combination of naivete, and what seems like willful misinterpretation of game codex and facts. You are doing what little you can to defend a pretty desperate case.

Oh, and final bomb drop- all this massing and preparing and sparking tensions to force preparations? No one even neeeds to know Shepard's behind it. :bandit:Boom.

OF COURSE, so not only you firmly believe the Galaxy's United Nations would deal with a terrorist criminal and allow him to amass a huge fleet, but even with a terrorist criminal who won't even disclose his true identity! 

Take a step back and attempt to realize how retarded this is. That bomb went off in your face.

Modifié par Rhayak, 02 avril 2013 - 09:36 .

[DeathScepter]

Even the U.S. sided with Soviet Russia during World War 2, Mine and other points are that a mutunal threat often brings enemies together.

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...
Law-abiding asari never question a justicar's orders. The entire cabal of asari rulers who know about the beacon is, by definition, not obeying the law. And, after all, a justicar's job is so very dangerous, particularly when trying to meddle in fully political matters.

So by your definition, if I steal, I'm also going to murder?

One type of crime does not necessarily imply other types of crime.

"You can trust Shepard" has no bearing on the beacon. Or are you trying to tell me all of asari high command are scumbags in all things?

Rhyak: Congratulations. You can almost pass for David7204. That's not a compliment.

[Xilizhra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Law-abiding asari never question a justicar's orders. The entire cabal of asari rulers who know about the beacon is, by definition, not obeying the law. And, after all, a justicar's job is so very dangerous, particularly when trying to meddle in fully political matters.

So by your definition, if I steal, I'm also going to murder?

One type of crime does not necessarily imply other types of crime.

"You can trust Shepard" has no bearing on the beacon. Or are you trying to tell me all of asari high command are scumbags in all things?

Rhyak: Congratulations. You can almost pass for David7204. That's not a compliment.

There's a difference between making preparations because you trust Shepard, and one loose cannon justicar potentially trying to publicly drag the entire Republics into a dubious issue like this. And I don't think that you can find many politicians unwilling to commit murder at a distance, if they deem it necessary (modern day foreign policy is far from bloodless, for instance).

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...
There's a difference between making preparations because you trust Shepard, and one loose cannon justicar potentially trying to publicly drag the entire Republics into a dubious issue like this. And I don't think that you can find many politicians unwilling to commit murder at a distance, if they deem it necessary (modern day foreign policy is far from bloodless, for instance).

The point is, there's no guarantee that they will commit murder, simply because they're being unlawful in other ways.

One crime does not guarantee another, though social stations do impact those probabilities.

And there's nothing to "drag them into". Despite what our hotheaded troll friends think, Shepard is not public enemy number one. There are some questions that need answering about Cerberus and Arrival, certainly. But that doesn't make him the boogeyman.

Also note that it's only the Alliance that are calling him to trial and only as a political move so Batarians don't throw a fit. The other races have no real beef with him, even given the Cerberus connection.

If he doesn't show, Batarians throw a fit and move to make war on the humans. The rest of the races would obviously prefer this didn't happen. But at this point it's only political for them. Samara's word wouldn't even be really be needed, unless  the asari make a token attempt to "assist in apprehension". A quiet word from her would mean the asari back off, maybe not publically, but in that they don't make a genuine attempt at catching him. And again, why would they? He's not working against their interests. And it's the same for the other races.

[Rhayak]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Rhyak: Congratulations. You can almost pass for David7204. That's not a compliment.

Oh i know. That's just you wussing out and half-assedly attempting to make it sound smart.

Modifié par Rhayak, 02 avril 2013 - 04:31 .

[Xilizhra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
There's a difference between making preparations because you trust Shepard, and one loose cannon justicar potentially trying to publicly drag the entire Republics into a dubious issue like this. And I don't think that you can find many politicians unwilling to commit murder at a distance, if they deem it necessary (modern day foreign policy is far from bloodless, for instance).

The point is, there's no guarantee that they will commit murder, simply because they're being unlawful in other ways.

One crime does not guarantee another, though social stations do impact those probabilities.

And there's nothing to "drag them into". Despite what our hotheaded troll friends think, Shepard is not public enemy number one. There are some questions that need answering about Cerberus and Arrival, certainly. But that doesn't make him the boogeyman.

Also note that it's only the Alliance that are calling him to trial and only as a political move so Batarians don't throw a fit. The other races have no real beef with him, even given the Cerberus connection.

If he doesn't show, Batarians throw a fit and move to make war on the humans. The rest of the races would obviously prefer this didn't happen. But at this point it's only political for them. Samara's word wouldn't even be really be needed, unless  the asari make a token attempt to "assist in apprehension". A quiet word from her would mean the asari back off, maybe not publically, but in that they don't make a genuine attempt at catching him. And again, why would they? He's not working against their interests. And it's the same for the other races.

Is this all about Shepard breaking out of prison six months early and trying to start the anti-Reaper efforts right then? Because I think the problem with that is mostly that the batarians would attack. I only came into this to mention the asari thing; the Council might listen to rogue!Shepard, but that seems less likely if she just hung the entire Alliance out to dry with the Hegemony.

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...
Is this all about Shepard breaking out of prison six months early and trying to start the anti-Reaper efforts right then? Because I think the problem with that is mostly that the batarians would attack. I only came into this to mention the asari thing; the Council might listen to rogue!Shepard, but that seems less likely if she just hung the entire Alliance out to dry with the Hegemony.

Actually, it's about never going to prison in the first place. It's a bull**** political move, and one that probably could've been faked without even needing Shepard to do anything at all but lay low. Of course he'd still need to prepare everybody but it would be done covertly. The Alliance side of things could be handled two ways

1. Make a show of "going after Shepard". Chase him and/or "cooperate" with the batarians in chasing him.

2. Stage the trial, either using a fake, or the real Shepard, but quiety let him go and bury the trail. Or have him "escape".

Either of these things would stall actual combat long enough for the Reapers to get there. And who knows, with the Batarians armed and just itching for a war, they might've lasted longer.

[Xilizhra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Is this all about Shepard breaking out of prison six months early and trying to start the anti-Reaper efforts right then? Because I think the problem with that is mostly that the batarians would attack. I only came into this to mention the asari thing; the Council might listen to rogue!Shepard, but that seems less likely if she just hung the entire Alliance out to dry with the Hegemony.

Actually, it's about never going to prison in the first place. It's a bull**** political move, and one that probably could've been faked without even needing Shepard to do anything at all but lay low. Of course he'd still need to prepare everybody but it would be done covertly. The Alliance side of things could be handled two ways

1. Make a show of "going after Shepard". Chase him and/or "cooperate" with the batarians in chasing him.

2. Stage the trial, either using a fake, or the real Shepard, but quiety let him go and bury the trail. Or have him "escape".

Either of these things would stall actual combat long enough for the Reapers to get there. And who knows, with the Batarians armed and just itching for a war, they might've lasted longer.

The thing is that the Hegemony does not consist of reasonable people, at least in its leadership. The Alliance has basically no margin for error if it wants to avoid a war. Remember how paranoid the Hegemony is (which may have to do with how many underhanded things it does; it sees how everyone else might do that to); anything that even looks like shenanigans coming from the Alliance could be pounced upon as a reason for war. It's true that a war might not happen, but is it worth the risk, with the Reapers about to attack at any moment?

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...
The thing is that the Hegemony does not consist of reasonable people, at least in its leadership. The Alliance has basically no margin for error if it wants to avoid a war. Remember how paranoid the Hegemony is (which may have to do with how many underhanded things it does; it sees how everyone else might do that to); anything that even looks like shenanigans coming from the Alliance could be pounced upon as a reason for war. It's true that a war might not happen, but is it worth the risk, with the Reapers about to attack at any moment?

Even when Shepard turned himself in for real, the Alliance likely had to put on a show for the batarians, making exaggerated statements condemning him and promising outrageous punishments. I admit it would've been interesting to see from a player perspective. Behind closed doors, I wouldn't be surprised if some professional ass-kisser promised to whip him naked in the streets.
This would simply be another layer of faking it. Of course there's a higher risk. But there are more resources and options available than Bioware's cared to acknowledge.

Hell if all else fails, the absolute worst case scenario,  they could've stuck him down a pit, but a pit with an extranet connection. One he would've used to mobilize his forces and prepare. Anything, anything is better than just plastering a goofy grin on your face, holding your hands up to be cuffed and then twiddling your thumbs for 6 months.

[David7204]

Making significantly effective preparations before the Reapers invade is off the table. It doesn't matter what happens from an in-universe perspective because it's unacceptable from a meta perspective. The Reapers have been built up for two games, they need to bulldoze the galaxy (at least early on) for the conflict to be satisfying and the foreshadowing to pay off.

Modifié par David7204, 02 avril 2013 - 06:00 .

[Xilizhra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
The thing is that the Hegemony does not consist of reasonable people, at least in its leadership. The Alliance has basically no margin for error if it wants to avoid a war. Remember how paranoid the Hegemony is (which may have to do with how many underhanded things it does; it sees how everyone else might do that to); anything that even looks like shenanigans coming from the Alliance could be pounced upon as a reason for war. It's true that a war might not happen, but is it worth the risk, with the Reapers about to attack at any moment?

Even when Shepard turned himself in for real, the Alliance likely had to put on a show for the batarians, making exaggerated statements condemning him and promising outrageous punishments. I admit it would've been interesting to see from a player perspective. Behind closed doors, I wouldn't be surprised if some professional ass-kisser promised to whip him naked in the streets.
This would simply be another layer of faking it. Of course there's a higher risk. But there are more resources and options available than Bioware's cared to acknowledge.

Hell if all else fails, the absolute worst case scenario,  they could've stuck him down a pit, but a pit with an extranet connection. One he would've used to mobilize his forces and prepare. Anything, anything is better than just plastering a goofy grin on your face, holding your hands up to be cuffed and then twiddling your thumbs for 6 months.

I won't say the Alliance might not have screwed up; they're far from perfect. Mostly I'm trying to explain their thought processes.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

How about we get back on topic?

If I were Miranda Lawson...oh, who am I kidding? I couldn't stand such a drastic change. And would Miranda Lawson...be me? Talk about an identity crisis!

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...
I won't say the Alliance might not have screwed up; they're far from perfect. Mostly I'm trying to explain their thought processes.

They were hit with the idiot ball, because Bioware wanted it that way. In-universe justification might be hard. But whatever.

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

How about we get back on topic?

The topic was mostly disparaging jokes before I came in here. You really want to get back to that?

[David7204]

I don't see how giving Shepard a few more months would have allowed him or her to do anything s/he didn't already do in ME 2.

[Fixers0]

David7204 wrote...

I don't see how giving Shepard a few more months would have allowed him or her to do anything s/he didn't already do in ME 2.

Like they did anything.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I won't say the Alliance might not have screwed up; they're far from perfect. Mostly I'm trying to explain their thought processes.

They were hit with the idiot ball, because Bioware wanted it that way. In-universe justification might be hard. But whatever.

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

How about we get back on topic?

The topic was mostly disparaging jokes before I came in here. You really want to get back to that?

I'm sure that the current crowd could, with its affinity for long-windedness, do an excellent job of creating a relevant and constructive discussion. Or not.

[DeathScepter]

Serious On Topic: If I was Miranda, I would be the conscience for T.I.M. and encourage to make Harry Lawson go byebye.

Silly On Topic: If I was Miranda, Me Jack and Kelly Chambers alone and anyone else that wants to join.

[David7204]

Fixers0 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I don't see how giving Shepard a few more months would have allowed him or her to do anything s/he didn't already do in ME 2.

Like they did anything.

Do you have any brilliant suggestions that aren't utterly vague to the point to being worthless such as "Shepard should research technology!" or "Shepard should learn more about the Reapers!"?

Modifié par David7204, 02 avril 2013 - 06:14 .

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Wait, wait, wait! How about we change the topic to: "Scenario: You Are in the General Role of Miranda Lawson." That way, we can carry on the discussion without people giggling about the, erm,
"endowments" bit. No body-swapping to deal with and all that.

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

Take that carnifex, brb suicide.

[Fixers0]

David7204 wrote...

Do you have any brilliant suggestions that aren't utterly vague to the point to being worthless such as "Shepard should research technology!" or "Shepard should learn more about the Reapers"?

I don't think it's my place to decide, it was up to Writers to come up with a meaningfull narrative for the second act, instead they wrote themsselfs into a corner leaving the galaxy in the pretty much the same state as it did at the end of the previous game, minus thanix cannons perhaps.

Modifié par Fixers0, 02 avril 2013 - 06:19 .

[David7204]

I'll just copy and paste this for you.

Making significantly effective preparations before the Reapers invade is off the table. It doesn't matter what happens from an in-universe perspective because it's unacceptable from a meta perspective. The Reapers have been built up for two games, they need to bulldoze the galaxy (at least early on) for the conflict to be satisfying and the foreshadowing to pay off.

[Fixers0]

David7204 wrote...

Making significantly effective preparations before the Reapers invade is off the table. It doesn't matter what happens from an in-universe perspective because it's unacceptable from a meta perspective. The Reapers have been built up for two games, they need to bulldoze the galaxy (at least early on) for the conflict to be satisfying and the foreshadowing to pay off.

I don't see what kind of relevance  your obviously biased opinion has in the matter, simply said If militaries don't prepare for conflicts and engagements they're incompetent, characters or insititutions being forcefully written to be incomptent is contrived and thus bad writing, Writers should avoid that at any cost.

Next time, post something that actually is credible and has relevance.

Modifié par Fixers0, 02 avril 2013 - 06:30 .