192 réponses à ce sujet

[Chris Priestly]

OneWomanArmy wrote...

He was lurking as I said, I knew it!!!!!

Not really. Someone sent me a PM that people were bashing me in the thread, so I popped my head in.

[Ryzaki]

Sialater wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Now, playing ME2 for the millionth time, I can't look at Jacob at all. Even if I do play a Bro!Shepard, I just look at him and can't help thinking "If I was playing a Fem!Shep and romanced you, You'd cheat on me! Bastard!" Does he still bring up naming the baby Shepard even if you romanced him? That's....That's just aweful. "Hey! I cheated on you and kocked up this hot scientist! Can we name the baby after you?"

Yes.

...Ok, That's not even a character cheating on you or something to handwave. That's just cruel....

Tasteless in the extreme.

Agreed. Really really tasteless.

One would think the devs if they were that insensitive to the matter would at least try to reverse the genders and see what their reaction to that would be. Guess that would be too thoughtful though eh? 

[Fredvdp]

Chris Priestly wrote...

OneWomanArmy wrote...

He was lurking as I said, I knew it!!!!!

Not really. Someone sent me a PM that people were bashing me in the thread, so I popped my head in.

That's not bashing. It's a celebration of your evilness.

[Chris Priestly]

OneWomanArmy wrote...

Touché! Although you usually dont answer your pm! ;-)

I do when people read the messages I post on my profile. You did right? You didn't just complain you never got an answer? You did read it before you complained?

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 20 juillet 2012 - 09:13 .

[PMC65]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

*snip*Now, playing ME2 for the millionth time, I can't look at Jacob at all. Even if I do play a Bro!Shepard, I just look at him and can't help thinking "If I was playing a Fem!Shep and romanced you, You'd cheat on me! Bastard!" Does he still bring up naming the baby Shepard even if you romanced him? That's....That's just aweful. "Hey! I cheated on you and kocked up this hot scientist! Can we name the baby after you?"

Really? That is something I don't do ... mix the universes. My femShep can be buds with Garrus without thinking about those that romance him, or admit love for Kaidan without thinking he is with manShep, talk with Samara without thinking "Oh you hag ... you would reject me if I make a pass at you", and so on. One universe should not bleed into another.

Jacob was always an independent guy to me and so when I saw his story in ME3 I wished that I had a femShep created just for him. Their romance never appealed to me until ME3 showed that it was one that did not survive the events. He did not wait on her (wow, someone not waiting on Shep?) ... she did not contact him while on Earth (Why Shep? Yes, you were on lockdown but you couldn't contact the guy that you loved? Really?). Their story was how life went on. It was a loss that Shepard suffered as part of the Alliance politics. Oh, how that Shepard could be just a little darker after seeing him.  

I had hoped that Miranda or Jack had the same type of moving on in ME3 as well just for more romance conclusions but nope. Even in ME2 a part of me was hoping that Liara had done the same when LotSB came out. Yes, my femShep would have been crushed but it would have added a new direction for that character to go in. It's all about the story for me.

But even though the twist made me tempted to create a Shepard for him, I can understand why those who considered him their one and only were really bummed. Too bad there was not more options where the characters could or could not move on instead of it always (outside of Jacob) being Shepard. I would have had Miranda tell Shepard that it was over. But having those choices (Shepard dump / character dump / romance survive) may be too much in-game. 

And as I played the first time, I remembered the posts about dumping Kaidan for Jacob and how that femShep was going to rub it in Kaidan's face. That didn't work out as planned for that poster and I could just imagine her throwing her controller at the screen as she screamed "Noooooooooooooo! How dare you dump me you %^&%$%"

[Visii]

@PMC65,

But the problem with character directions heading in a new "direction" is that, just like Thane's death, Shepard doesn't get to talk about Jacob cheating on her with anyone. She isn't shown being angry or sad, and even during the confrontation WITH Jacob, there's barely any emotion and no real confrontation to speak of.

With an event like LI death (Thane) or cheating, the event can't just happen on its own. The aftermath is just as important, how Shepard/other characters deal with it is important. And as evidenced by the,"BTW, Brynn wants to name the baby after you" bit on the Citadel" it's painstakingly obvious that no real effort, time or money was put into this.

[PMC65]

@Visii,

I am not saying that it was done well ... in fact even happy endings weren't perfect. Every romance thread has complaints. My focus was on the outcome of Shepard being left instead of being the one leaving the relationship. I like having that turnaround in game and it made me like Jacob more. I also stated that it would have been great had their been options = Shepard dump / Jacob dump / romance survive.

If people hate Jacob for his not waiting/cheating on Shepard and how he moved on in their romanced game I can understand ... I am only voicing another viewpoint that some of us liked that twist. Me liking that romance's end is not meant to cancel/void how other's feel. An option for Shepard to knee him would have been nice. ; )

[LanceSolous13]

The idea of an LI no longer wanting to be with Shepard is an interesting idea and I wouldn't mind it if you had to do X, Y, and Z to get them back. But, Jacob cheats on you. HAS SEX WITH SOMEONE ELSE. IS HAVING A BABY. That's just bad. Even if there was the option of getting him back, Why would you at that point?

About Shepard never contacting Jacob, She really didn't have an option. Its the same idea of not being able to contact Miranda. How would contacting an ex-Cerberus Soldier look? The fact you're in bed with him didn't help that.

[PMC65]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

The idea of an LI no longer wanting to be with Shepard is an interesting idea and I wouldn't mind it if you had to do X, Y, and Z to get them back. But, Jacob cheats on you. HAS SEX WITH SOMEONE ELSE. IS HAVING A BABY. That's just bad. Even if there was the option of getting him back, Why would you at that point?

About Shepard never contacting Jacob, She really didn't have an option. Its the same idea of not being able to contact Miranda. How would contacting an ex-Cerberus Soldier look? The fact you're in bed with him didn't help that.

Shepard not contacting his/her lover is a really WTF? thing. Shepard could give a rat's behind about what others think. I mean, Shepard openly works with Cerberus ... but he may not have called Miranda because he isn't strong enough to risk others knowing he is with an ex-Cerberus agent? She should have dumped his cowardly behind if that were the case. I'd like to think he doesn't try and find her because he is protecting her. She also tells Shepard that she was protecting him as well as on the run. OK.

Why femShep would not try and keep Jacob close or at least in contact with him is weird to me. Did Jacob say why he never contacted her? 

Is Jacob a cheater? If I had played a femShep that romanced Jacob it would not have been cheating in my headcanon. Jacob is a character that has always appeared very independent and strong to me. While he is honest he is not always open to Shepard, If you push him too hard he will dump Shepard in ME2. The guy does not mess around. He has his lines, his expectations, etc. Shepard doesn't play by other people's rules so these two were bound to clash ... in my headcanon.

With Shepard gone for 6 months ... Jacob moves on. He doesn't really believe that Shepard will be his and his alone so he finds someone that he feels is more his equal. Shepard runs back into him and since she has not called (for whatever reason) how can she be so shocked? Of course, she may think that the world revolves around her and he shows her that it doesn't. That if you care about someone or something you have to put the time in. Shepard is not really an ideal boyfriend/girlfriend if you want to feel that you matter. Shepard has other responsibilities that drive her away ... ALOT!  

So the story would work for me. This is just one way to play that outcome ... it is not meant for others though.

But this is just one way to view the Jacob event. Others can play him a douchebag and a cheating scoundrel! It is all about player's perspective and story. There is no ONE WAY to see the relationships ... I see the affair as another interesting choice.

But I can completely sympathize with those who hate him for their romance version of the story.

[DineBoo]

The main problem is why is it femShep's LI cheat/die without any recourse.

If you were able to prevent Thane's death (or at least lengthen it to the endgame) or have Jacob stay faithful if you did certain steps, it wouldn't be as bad. As it stands, femShep's straight choices got gutted with nothing to replace them. Kaidan and Garrus' romances, akthough exceptional, does not make up for choices taken away.

The fact they everyone stays faithful to broShep or don't die on him also adds feul to the fire because it's unequal treatment. Where was broShep's LI who cheats on him? Or dies without player input?

If BW was striving for "realism" they should have had autodeath/cheaters for both male and female Shepard. And there should have been clues so the player could have made an informed choice to decide if they wanted to purse an LI or not.

[LanceSolous13]

PMC65 wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

The idea of an LI no longer wanting to be with Shepard is an interesting idea and I wouldn't mind it if you had to do X, Y, and Z to get them back. But, Jacob cheats on you. HAS SEX WITH SOMEONE ELSE. IS HAVING A BABY. That's just bad. Even if there was the option of getting him back, Why would you at that point?

About Shepard never contacting Jacob, She really didn't have an option. Its the same idea of not being able to contact Miranda. How would contacting an ex-Cerberus Soldier look? The fact you're in bed with him didn't help that.

Shepard not contacting his/her lover is a really WTF? thing. Shepard could give a rat's behind about what others think. I mean, Shepard openly works with Cerberus ... but he may not have called Miranda because he isn't strong enough to risk others knowing he is with an ex-Cerberus agent? She should have dumped his cowardly behind if that were the case. I'd like to think he doesn't try and find her because he is protecting her. She also tells Shepard that she was protecting him as well as on the run. OK.

Why femShep would not try and keep Jacob close or at least in contact with him is weird to me. Did Jacob say why he never contacted her? 

Is Jacob a cheater? If I had played a femShep that romanced Jacob it would not have been cheating in my headcanon. Jacob is a character that has always appeared very independent and strong to me. While he is honest he is not always open to Shepard, If you push him too hard he will dump Shepard in ME2. The guy does not mess around. He has his lines, his expectations, etc. Shepard doesn't play by other people's rules so these two were bound to clash ... in my headcanon.

With Shepard gone for 6 months ... Jacob moves on. He doesn't really believe that Shepard will be his and his alone so he finds someone that he feels is more his equal. Shepard runs back into him and since she has not called (for whatever reason) how can she be so shocked? Of course, she may think that the world revolves around her and he shows her that it doesn't. That if you care about someone or something you have to put the time in. Shepard is not really an ideal boyfriend/girlfriend if you want to feel that you matter. Shepard has other responsibilities that drive her away ... ALOT!  

So the story would work for me. This is just one way to play that outcome ... it is not meant for others though.

But this is just one way to view the Jacob event. Others can play him a douchebag and a cheating scoundrel! It is all about player's perspective and story. There is no ONE WAY to see the relationships ... I see the affair as another interesting choice.

But I can completely sympathize with those who hate him for their romance version of the story.

Umm....Shepard couldn't contact ANYONE. No one. At all. No exceptions. He was being detained. It was prison with a bit more freedom. Its not that Shepard is activly choosing not to contact them. Thane brings this up that he tried several times to contact Shepard during the 6 month period but his messages never got through because Shepard was to have no contact with anyone. Everyone knows he worked for Cerberus, but Cerberus is a terrorist organization. Shepard just blew up an entire System and killed all the Battarians there, Why would the Alliance allow contact between Shepard and Cerberus or anyone else for that matter? They wouldn't and they don't.

Jacob did cheat. There was no contact between the two. No affirmation that things were over. This completely invalidates any reason to have him as an LI in ME2. There is no reason for him to be an LI anymore. It makes no sense for this to happen in the first place. The idea of an LI moving on is ok AS LONG AS YOU CAN DO SOMETHING TO EITHER PREVENT OR FIX IT. Jacob cheating on you has no baring on anything what so ever and there is nothing you can do about it and Fem!Shep can't even get angry about it.

[PMC65]

@DineBoo,

Having a Shepard dump / character dump / relationship continue would be cool. But since that was not an option then maybe Bioware should have added additional male romance options for femShep.

As I said earlier, I would have loved Miranda to tell Shepard that romanced her "thanks, but I must move on." Jack to have said it was a great f&%$ but adios ... Would have loved it.

I was even prepared for Liara to tell Shepard to hit the road in LotSB ... although I guess that would mean femShep would lose another LI.

Since I also don't want to know if my choices are wrong or right until after I make them ... I'll leave the debate about "relationship indicators" to others. Especially since I created more than one Shepard and romanced more than one character. In the real world we must only choose one. In the games ... OPA!!!!!!

EDIT:

@LanceSolous13 - As I said, you can say that he cheated. You can feel that he is a douchebag. If I had a femShep that had romanced him I would not. There had been no contact in 6 months and neither Jacob or Shepard were wearing rings. But, once again, that is my headcanon.

You can make him a cheating scoundrel. Neither view invalidates the other. RP that relationship the way you like.

Modifié par PMC65, 21 juillet 2012 - 02:08 .

[Vikali]

People give a damn about Jacob? Well, there's the first problem.

[Nyaore]

LanceSolous13 wrote...
Jacob did cheat. There was no contact between the two. No affirmation that things were over. This completely invalidates any reason to have him as an LI in ME2. There is no reason for him to be an LI anymore. It makes no sense for this to happen in the first place. The idea of an LI moving on is ok AS LONG AS YOU CAN DO SOMETHING TO EITHER PREVENT OR FIX IT. Jacob cheating on you has no baring on anything what so ever and there is nothing you can do about it and Fem!Shep can't even get angry about it.

Hell, I'd settle with just the ability to get angry about it - if nothing else. It's unnatural for Shepard, especially one of the Renegade persuasion to let a slight like that drop so quickly. I know for a fact that the Shepard I made to romance him would have broken his jaw or something similar, because she's never been able to keep a handle on her anger in those situations. Especially since he didn't even have the decency to track her down and tell her that he was ending it. Even a private message would have been better than being blindsided like that.

Don't get me wrong, if Jacob wasn't a romance option his hooking up with Brynn would have been perfect in my opinion. Most of my other Shepards were extremely happy for him finding a place where he thought he belonged, bad jokes about naming his kid after Shepard aside. However the inability to do anything besides sit back and be a passive waif while your former LI essentially tells you he got tired of waiting for you, even knowing the circumstances behind your incarceration, rankles. Shepard should have at least had the option to yell at him for that. Or break a few fingers, but that might just be specific to my Renegade. I like the fact that one LI cheats on you, it makes sense that not everyone would wait, but how it was handled essentially derailed Jacob's character and smacked of lazy writing.

Modifié par Nyaore, 21 juillet 2012 - 02:47 .

[PMC65]

Nyaore wrote...
Hell, I'd settle with just the ability to get angry about it - if nothing else. It's unnatural for Shepard, especially one of the Renegade persuasion to let a slight like that drop so quickly. I know for a fact that the Shepard I made to romance him would have broken his jaw or something similar, because she's never been able to keep a handle on her anger in those situations. Especially since he didn't even have the decency to track her down and tell her that he was ending it. Even a private message would have been better than being blindsided like that.

Don't get me wrong, if Jacob wasn't a romance option his hooking up with Brynn would have been perfect in my opinion. Most of my other Shepards were extremely happy for him finding a place where he thought he belonged, bad jokes about naming his kid after Shepard aside. However the inability to do anything besides sit back and be a passive waif while your former LI essentially tells you he got tired of waiting for you, even knowing the circumstances behind your incarceration, rankles. Shepard should have at least had the option to yell at him for that. Or break a few fingers, but that might just be specific to my Renegade. I like the fact that one LI cheats on you, it makes sense that not everyone would wait, but how it was handled essentially derailed Jacob's character and smacked of lazy writing.

Breaking fingers sounds like a reallly good interrupt! Or throwing his butt of the shuttle and leaving him on the base? OK, that would be priceless!

[Ski Mask Wei]

Bioware f#@%ed the dog in so many positions when it comes to ME3's story and characters I can't even be mad about Jacob's treatment. To me they'd have to fix twenty other problems before they even got to Jacob and I say this as a Jacob fan who actually liked his romance in ME2.

Sigh...

[CptData]

Ski Mask Wei wrote...

Bioware f#@%ed the dog in so many positions when it comes to ME3's story and characters I can't even be mad about Jacob's treatment. To me they'd have to fix twenty other problems before they even got to Jacob and I say this as a Jacob fan who actually liked his romance in ME2.

Sigh...

Well, I never romanced Jacob (well, as man!Shep player only ...), but Jacob's "plot" felt awkward to me in ME3. Why's that guy calling my Shep out only to love the Normandy while Ashley stands right next to him? I don't get it.

Jacob definitely needs an upgrade. A first step is to make Brynn to a good friend if Jacob was romanced - no preggy, no girlfriend. She can be his girl if unromanced, but not ... you know. Why's the only black straight dude a cheating douche? <_<

[BadExamp1e]

Has anybody said, "Is it cuz I'm black?" yet.

[Ryzaki]

CptData wrote...

Ski Mask Wei wrote...

Bioware f#@%ed the dog in so many positions when it comes to ME3's story and characters I can't even be mad about Jacob's treatment. To me they'd have to fix twenty other problems before they even got to Jacob and I say this as a Jacob fan who actually liked his romance in ME2.

Sigh...

Well, I never romanced Jacob (well, as man!Shep player only ...), but Jacob's "plot" felt awkward to me in ME3. Why's that guy calling my Shep out only to love the Normandy while Ashley stands right next to him? I don't get it.

Jacob definitely needs an upgrade. A first step is to make Brynn to a good friend if Jacob was romanced - no preggy, no girlfriend. She can be his girl if unromanced, but not ... you know. Why's the only black straight dude a cheating douche? <_<

the bolded is exactly how I feel. <_<

[AVPen]

CptData wrote...

Well, I never romanced Jacob (well, as man!Shep player only ...), but Jacob's "plot" felt awkward to me in ME3. Why's that guy calling my Shep out only to love the Normandy while Ashley stands right next to him? I don't get it.

Yeah, that bugged the sh*t outta me as well when I first heard it and brought my LI Tali with me.... kept waiting for Tali to call him a bosh'tet or something, like pull an interupt like she did in ME2 when Shepard makes that "quarian tummyache" remark to that krogan on Mordin's LM ("I'm standing right here!"), but never happened. <_<


Even though I never used Jacob much in ME2 after the first few missions (and hardly ever talked to him as a FemShep, just cause I couldn't stand Hale's delivery of her lines), I did like Jacob's personalty and character in that game and didn't mind him being one of the only "normal" characters to the crew. But in ME3? God, I hated his attitude.... that seeming smugness, that sorta "I'm better than you" attitude that he exudes toward Shepard.... makes me kinda wish I had actually sent in the vents like he wanted to do during the Suicide Mission.

Modifié par AVPen, 21 juillet 2012 - 05:20 .

[TheWerdna]

Ghost1017 wrote...

CastonFolarus wrote...

I believe that this picture is in order, here...



And this isn't even MENTIONING Vega.....

I wouldn't really count any of the ME2 LI's.

Out of the ME2 LI's  Tali and Garrus count the most, as they are both still squadmates and have just as much content (if not more in some cases) then the ME3 LIs