InvincibleHero wrote...
They have programming that approximates a conscience based on experiences they've had and that's it. It's a checksum list and that is it. They are not created with one and it is not something that can be manufactured. I don't think it was meant in a literal sense but metaphorically. Sorry but facts are they are not life, but an imitation thereof. It is a great fantasy that programs can gain life or sentience. I admit it makes for a great fiction story and I am entertained by the various iterations from Magnus robot fighter on down.
See Tali said that about Legion because it sacrificed itself for the rest of the geth. It was a projection based on her capacity for emotion that geth lack. People do that with their pets. To Legion it was one vs billions of geth programs and logical conclusion says it would necessitate self-destruction for the greater good. The problem is even though Legions programs are gone the geth still have every impression of it and in a way it is not gone forever and will be part of the geth forever.
Tali called Legion he or him as anthropomorphism. Geth have no gender or sex and it was a meaningless distinction. The voice sounded more male than female and that is all. Tali/Shepard saw things in Legion that were not present.
Legion was different than the others because it could think outside the consensus, but still was influenced by it heavily. BW made it seem like it had emotions, yet it said that it did not feel like humans and had no emotions like fear or even anger.
They can create a moral code and that still does not equal soul. They can emulate any facet of organic social constructs and that is all it is. The best answer is the geth are period. They exist (in a fictional game setting) and are not explained by any human phenomena.
I doubt Legion would ever have sacrificed itself for a human child or perfect stranger like some people do for others on our mudball. Everything it did served the geth cause even in the final act of presumed discorporation.
I think the whole thing was a spoof on religion seeing as the game setting seems to not respect it that much. Ashley is made out to be a kook and most humans do not believe as they did. Asari seem to believe little by invoking goddess all the time cheapening what should be something arcane and private to just a public acknowledgement with no worth like saying bless you when someone sneezes. Hanar believe in the enkindlers and make a religion out of that. Geth parody human rites in worshipping the old machines in ME.
If you believe a machine has a soul you bought into a philosophy that the writers created. They wanted people to feel emotions and it made for some touching moments in a cinematic experience.
I love the games and have no distaste for how they have treated the mature themes within. It is a refreshing change to have a game that makes people think deeply and feel passionately about characters and happenings in the setting. The main thing is believe what you will and that is I think what they tried to get across.
My opinion says no Legion cannot have a soul ,but I cannot force my answer on anyone else. According to how the game is written my opinion might be wrong. If they say geth have souls then that is fact in their universe.
I usualy avoid the concept of "soul" since I see it as a silly religious thing most of the time... Some people seem to use it to ascribe other values to things or people... I don't know, I've never liked the concept.
I think some people think only humans got souls, or people of a specific religion because they are special or chosen while others say it's something else.
Sometimes it feels like people see it as the personality and the person which is somehow separated by the body somehow and has nothing to do with the biochemical impulses that creates our thoughts and processes memories to find a pattern to make sense of it all.
Also refered to as the immortal soul....... ?!? you die and then whatever....
I think it was invented to provide an answer to the question; What happens when we die, then the priest or equivalent would tell you, it will be allright, don't forget to pay me well for my services and I'll tell "insert god" that you have been faithful and derserves a good afterlife.... Others will tell you, blow yourself up for me and you will get a good afterlife.
Religion has also been a way of controlling people's immense egos and make them work together towards the goals of the people in power. Be a good beliver, fellow humanbeing and citicen or you will end up in hell or get reborn as something really really bad!! And how does that threat work? Since there is no hell they have to tell you that the soul that noone can see will live on after people die and they will get rewarded or punished for all eternity.
Do good for your betters, and you will be rewarded after you die.
In the context of the geth however, the Geth grew up in the religious society of the Quarrians and there a person and an individual and a person who could interact and think it's own thoughts was supposed to have a soul. So it's only natural for them to ask if they have a soul aswell, if they are sentiend like the Quarians. To the Quarrians that's the definition of a person a living entity with a soul.
Apparently the Quarians had electronicly stored copys of ancestors aswell, those probably wern't regarded to have souls since they were just a copy, which is kind of weird aswell. I can see how the Geths question was twice as sensitive to the quarians with their stored digitalized ancestors. Apparently these ancestors wern't always treated in a respectful way.
At some point I can probably see something as alive and sentient but to answer a question based on something that doesn't seem to exist to begin with, however I would give it the answer it craves if I think it is alive then sure it can have a soul aswell. If it's important to a person then I see no point in taking it away from them as long as they arn't trying to belittle me. I might tell them what I think about the idea though, but most of the time it's not what's important, it depends how much they want to talk about it and wether I get tired of it or not.
Religions and the concept of a soul was concived through the reasoning of what feelt good and right among the "important" people who were allowed to express themselves and decide the future for all. It's a feel good idea that provides comfort for some and power to others and zero accountability since noone is personaly guilty of whatever hardships are sent from a fictional person.
As I see it the Geth seem sentient enough to have a right to exist and not get trampled down just like everyone else, and if they want to have a soul let them have it. I can't see the controversy of letting them feel religious if they somehow feels it gives them comfort.
I say free religions for all and freedom to reject them for those who don't want to have anything to do with it. To not belive can be seen as much a belief as beliving.
As for Legion sacrifising itself for just about anyone, who knows. I know a lot of people wouldn't interfere if I walked out into a crowded street and beat up a complete stranger or shot him/her down, they would just try and get away from that place. Most people got a thing called selfpreservation, sometimes family and children can become more important in a hopeless situation and this is probably what you could say about Legion, it sacrifised itself to save it's family, in the end it lived on through it's family that then shared the code that made Legion special, it's experiences and development.
Shepard has a similar situation, Shepard thinks he or she will die no matter what option shepard picks, yet if no option is picked the Reapers will kill everyone (including shepard) that much is certain. Picking an alternative will save all friends and family and trillions of others as a side bonus..
Humans and all life on this planet are simple compuational constructs that follows simple programming. Advancements are made because it benefits survival odds.
Beneficial actions are rewarded through hormone reactions that is interpreted as "feel good". If a bad is rewarded it might reduce this specimens survival odds and the bad is therefor removed from the genepool. Bad = it doesn't help the individuals reproduction cycle or help it's ofspring.
Gaining social status or recognition is usualy good. Procuring food = good, reproduction = good. Safety = good. Maintaining biological functions = good.
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