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[v0rt3x22]

 BioWare was quoted at the SDCC panel - saying (in regards to showing Shepard being alive in the "Destroy" ending) -

we wanted to give them [the players] a little beacon of hope. 

and

 
We did make it ambiguous on purpose 

At the same panel - they were also quoted as saying:

 There is no canon ending 

Source: 
http://www.newsarama...ent-future.html 

Well here's my problem:


What good is a little beacon of hope - if (at the end) it won't mean anything?

Mass Effect has always been about Shepard's story - and many of us love Shepard - and some people even argue that Mass Effect wouldn't be the same without him.

Now if BioWare would like to send us a "beacon of hope" - that would imply - that they would like to give us hope that maybe Shepard is alive.

The only reason I'd get worked up about this "hope" - is due to the possibility of him returning in a sequel.

Otherwise that "beacon of hope" doesn't really have any meaning to me.
Wouldn't you agree?

Now - they also only show this sequence (as far as I'm aware) - in the "Destroy" ending.

That's the only ending they provide that "beacon of hope" - but then they go ahead and say that there is "no canon ending".

The way I interpret this is that they might be going two different ways: 

For those who feel that the Mass Effect series should come to an end - they can choose to sacrifice Shepard.
For those who feel that they would like to play on with Shepard - they choose "Destroy" ending.

Those are just my interpretations - but it seems very odd to me - how much good "a beacon of hope" is to me - when this is the definite end of Shepard's story.

He's no good to me alive, when I'm not able to play him.

Thoughts?

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:26 .

[Mazebook]

It is good for your headcanon ... you can imagine how his life would have continued.

but Shepards story is done...and that is good in my opinion...let´s explore something new.

explore new characters.

[v0rt3x22]

maaaze wrote...

It is good for your headcanon ... you can imagine how his life would have continued.

but Shepards story is done...and that is good in my opinion...let´s explore something new.

explore new characters.

Ah I see - so him surviving - and his LI going out to look for him - is all left up to my imagination.

[ChrisRudson]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

It is good for your headcanon ... you can imagine how his life would have continued.

but Shepards story is done...and that is good in my opinion...let´s explore something new.

explore new characters.

Ah I see - so him surviving - and his LI going out to look for him - is all left up to my imagination.

Pretty much, yes.

[Lord Goose]

They cannot make major decision for your Shepard. His or her future after the end is major decision. So they made it ambigous on purpose.

[Mazebook]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

It is good for your headcanon ... you can imagine how his life would have continued.

but Shepards story is done...and that is good in my opinion...let´s explore something new.

explore new characters.

Ah I see - so him surviving - and his LI going out to look for him - is all left up to my imagination.

that is the fact for every Story where the main Character survives...

[EDIT: Shepard finding the love of his live is not really the core of the Story]

Modifié par maaaze, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:38 .

[Applepie_Svk]

And this is funny .. what are we still arguing on the forums ....





SPECULATIONS FROM EVERYWHERE !

[wright1978]

Most people hated Bioware's original completely ambigious endings. They promised to provide clarification and closure. However they were too cheap to clarify the Shep lives ending.

[Applepie_Svk]

...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:40 .

[Daniel_N7]

I find it hard to accept the "last breath scene" as ambiguous. It is a clear indication that Shepard is alive.

This small scene comes out at the end of the epilogue and that means it is only logical as a flashback. Now you tell me what would be the purpose of inserting a flashback after the epilogue with... Shepard dying?

I have no problem (and never had) with the fact that Mass Effect 3 was going to be the final chapter of Shepard's story. Turns out that not even BioWare knows what his story was. You want to become the Reaper king of the Universe? Go Control! You want to blend everyone into this organic/synthetic DNA soup? Synthesis. You want Shepard to Survive? Maybe? Destroy!

Did he survive? BioWare doesn't even know? It's all so ambiguous...

[Pitznik]

wright1978 wrote...

Most people hated Bioware's original completely ambigious endings. They promised to provide clarification and closure. However they were too cheap to clarify the Shep lives ending.

"Shep lives" is not really an ambigouos statement. Dead people don't breathe. What is there to clarify? We know that with high EMS destroy Shepard lives, what happens after isn't shown or said. Implications of that scene + LI/Liara not putting the name on memorial wall is that he both lives AND his crew is aware of that. Nothing more is presented. But that is enough for me.

Modifié par Pitznik, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:47 .

[Dean_the_Young]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

What good is a little beacon of hope - if (at the end) it won't mean anything?

Mass Effect has always been about Shepard's story - and many of us love Shepard - and some people even argue that Mass Effect wouldn't be the same without him.

Now if BioWare would like to send us a "beacon of hope" - that would imply - that they would like to give us hope that maybe Shepard is alive.

The only reason I'd get worked up about this "hope" - is due to the possibility of him returning in a sequel.

Otherwise that "beacon of hope" doesn't really have any meaning to me.
Wouldn't you agree?

No.

Now - they also only show this sequence (as far as I'm aware) - in the "Destroy" ending.

That's the only ending they provide that "beacon of hope" - but then they go ahead and say that there is "no canon ending".

The way I interpret this is that they might be going two different ways: 

For those who feel that the Mass Effect series should come to an end - they can choose to sacrifice Shepard.
For those who feel that they would like to play on with Shepard - they choose "Destroy" ending.

Those are just my interpretations - but it seems very odd to me - how much good "a beacon of hope" is to me - when this is the definite end of Shepard's story.

He's no good to me alive, when I'm not able to play him.

Thoughts?

All stories have a point the story teller stops talking. Expecting otherwise is silly.

[ld1449]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

It is good for your headcanon ... you can imagine how his life would have continued.

but Shepards story is done...and that is good in my opinion...let´s explore something new.

explore new characters.

Ah I see - so him surviving - and his LI going out to look for him - is all left up to my imagination.

Don't cha know. You pay X amount of money now for people to tell you to use your immagination. Isn't this fantastic story telling???

[MordiMoro]

Mass Effect without Shepard is like Batman without Bruce Wayne: a Dick Grayson dressed a bat.

Many players choose destruction for Shep alive, Bioware do not like, why are recanting once more.

The next release will clarify that Bioware Shep died in the end destroy.

[riesenwiesel]

Daniel_N7 wrote...
I have no problem (and never had) with the fact that Mass Effect 3 was going to be the final chapter of Shepard's story. Turns out that not even BioWare knows what his story was.

Exactly.

A story-teller that cannot tell his own story to the end? Well, I hope you never try that one on your kids...

"and they all lived happily ever after... ooor maybe the ghost of the dead witch killed them while sleeping, and now go to bed." <trollface>

[wright1978]

Pitznik wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Most people hated Bioware's original completely ambigious endings. They promised to provide clarification and closure. However they were too cheap to clarify the Shep lives ending.

"Shep lives" is not really an ambigouos statement. Dead people don't breathe. What is there to clarify? We know that with high EMS destroy Shepard lives, what happens after isn't shown or said. Implications of that scene + LI/Liara not putting the name on memorial wall is that he both lives AND his crew is aware of that. Nothing more is presented. But that is enough for me.

Why did they bother having a scene showing the Normandy lifting off the planet. Apparently because lots of people viewed the original scene as being too ambigious. Similarly a scene of Shep being rescued should have been added because that scene is far too ambigious. Some crew member who is stranded in the back of beyond and has no clue what's going on at earth pausing during plaque placing can only be viewed as confirmation of Shep living if you pull yourself out of the narrative and take it as the narrator making an attempt at a nudge and a wink. Really i'd much prefer an epilogue that actually felt like it acknowledged Shep's survival rather than shoving it at the end like a piece of rubbish.

[Dean_the_Young]

MordiMoro wrote...

Mass Effect without Shepard is like Batman without Bruce Wayne: a Dick Grayson dressed a bat.

Mass Effect without Shepard would be like the DC Universe without Batman. Batman is central to his own corner of the universe. The Mass Effect universe is bigger than Shepard, and has been for some time.

The next release will clarify that Bioware Shep died in the end
destroy.
Many players choose destruction for Shep alive, Bioware do not like, why are recanting once more.

Or, alternatively, they'll set it far enough forward in time that Shepard would be dead anyway, and either leave it ambiguous or reflect it and let it be as irrelevant to a later story as it already is.

[Pitznik]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
All stories have a point the story teller stops talking. Expecting otherwise is silly.

Some story tellers can't force themselves do that. Except "Mass Effect 4: The Daughter of Shepard". Main character can be either human or asari, for all your "my choices matter" needs. Think wisely who you sleep with, your decision will have great implications on main character in "Mass Effect 8: The Shepard's Legacy".

[Pitznik]

wright1978 wrote...


Why did they bother having a scene showing the Normandy lifting off the planet. Apparently because lots of people viewed the original scene as being too ambigious. Similarly a scene of Shep being rescued should have been added because that scene is far too ambigious. Some crew member who is stranded in the back of beyond and has no clue what's going on at earth pausing during plaque placing can only be viewed as confirmation of Shep living if you pull yourself out of the narrative and take it as the narrator making an attempt at a nudge and a wink. Really i'd much prefer an epilogue that actually felt like it acknowledged Shep's survival rather than shoving it at the end like a piece of rubbish.

The breath scene itself is NOT ambiguous. What happens AFTER is. This scene works for each and every Shepard. What happens after would be different for each and every Shepard. This is a good place to stop telling the story. Shepard's survival is the only difference between middle EMS and high EMS. Both the fact that scene is added and how it is presented gives you new information - Shepard lives.

[Dmthoth]

new character?
this is silly..
because.. everybody can make their own new-ME4-character just like their shepard's shape..
Shepard ver.03 (Separd ver.02 was on ME2 )

[Simotech]

"We did make it ambiguous on purpose "

"There is no canon ending"


*facepalm*

[Eain]

Is there anything more infuriating than a band of storytellers copping out so blatantly as to throw their hands up and go "you know what? **** it, we have no idea, you figure it out."

[dsl08002]

when you are playing a game the meaning is that it shouldnt be left to imagination but rather the imagination should have been on scren

[MordiMoro]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

]Mass Effect without Shepard would be like the DC Universe without Batman. Batman is central to his own corner of the universe. The Mass Effect universe is bigger than Shepard, and has been for some time.

I created my Shepard, I have played in the world of Mass Effect as Shepard.
To play as James Vega I do not care.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
]Or, alternatively, they'll set it far enough forward in time that Shepard would be dead anyway, and either leave it ambiguous or reflect it and let it be as irrelevant to a later story as it already is.

But in fact, even if the protagonist why change?
I do not think Hawke in DA2 has shined ....

This destroy / alive sounds like a joke. if he should die for "artistic integrity" could be avoided, as they can to avoid speculation and changing versions breathe / exhale.

Modifié par MordiMoro, 16 juillet 2012 - 12:08 .

[wright1978]

Pitznik wrote...

The breath scene itself is NOT ambiguous. What happens AFTER is. This scene works for each and every Shepard. What happens after would be different for each and every Shepard. This is a good place to stop telling the story. Shepard's survival is the only difference between middle EMS and high EMS. Both the fact that scene is added and how it is presented gives you new information - Shepard lives.

Breath scene is completely ambigious. Without reading the file name you would not even be sure it is Shep.
No it is not a good place to finish telling the story, just as cutting with the Normandy crashed on a distant jungle planet wasn't the place to leave it. High EMS destroy should have showed Shep getting rescued or had Shep reading the epilogue. Something to show categorically that Shep survived. Currently the high ems destroy epilogue is completely isolated from the Shep lives afterthought breath clip.