760 réponses à ce sujet

[DrwEddy]

Well 'thanks' a lot BioWare!

Modifié par DrwEddy, 16 juillet 2012 - 10:48 .

[Iakus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It has everything to do with it.

But you aren't very forthcoming with information.

How can you accuse me of that when I've not got a clue what point you were trying to make about order?

I'm still not sure what you're arguing to be honest.

The scene is that way for a reason. Suspense and then catharsis.

It eithers works for you or it doesn't.

The plaque scene and the breath scene are days or even weeks apart.

That's just it.  No catharsis. No return.  No redemption.  Just a pointless, pointless waste of life.

that scene is Bioware pointing at a sandbar and telling me I'm on a tropical beach.  After all that death and darkness, one breath doesn't cover the bill.  Not by a long shot

[The Twilight God]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Bioware insists the torso in rubble is a "happy" ending. Bioware continually insists that from this it is obvious that a reunion will take place. Bioware stated on twitter and on other places that the LI not placing the name on the wall and the Normandy flying off indicates, no clearly says Shepard lives and will be found by his/her teammates.

Bioware people have also said it's Shep's last breath. They all have different opinions on it. They can make up anything at any time because it's not written in stone. Ergo, their headcanon is no more valid than any other person who ignores lore. Keeping to the lore a reunion does not take place for destroy - Period.

Destroy is the CRAPPIEST ending you can get despite being the only choice that makes any sense for Shep to make.

[mopotter]

lynch108 wrote...

This is Shepard's story, and Shepard's story ends with him lying in pile debris taking a breath.  The endings suck.  The best that can be said about them is that they are OK, which is a failure, in my opinion.   Did I REALLY need the entire galaxy's military to get to the beam.  The ending made the rest of the game pointless to me.  Amassing an armada of that scale as a distraction just seemed stupid.  In the first 2 games I felt in control during the final assaults and therefore responsible for the ultimate failure or triumph, at the end of ME3 I felt manipulated like I was a pawn in someone else's game.  It was just a massive letdown for me.  Of course, this is just my opinion.

Pretty much mine too.  The EC makes it Bearable, just.  Replayable, not so much.

[Taboo]

I had all that.

It's edited that way for a reason.

Cross Cuts and time lapse. Even the music.

[mopotter]

Reorte wrote...

For the record, what I would've found satisfying - remove the breath scene and replace the Stargazer (so it's post credits) with a hand pulling Shepard out of the rubble (not necessarily a cewmember's hand, that wouldn't make sense), and with Shepard looking alive enough to very definitely not be dead. I'd have still liked an actual reunion but I think this would've been enough for me.

This would have been great.

[AresKeith]

The Twilight God wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Bioware insists the torso in rubble is a "happy" ending. Bioware continually insists that from this it is obvious that a reunion will take place. Bioware stated on twitter and on other places that the LI not placing the name on the wall and the Normandy flying off indicates, no clearly says Shepard lives and will be found by his/her teammates.

Bioware people have also said it's Shep's last breath. They all have different opinions on it. They can make up anything at any time because it's not written in stone. Ergo, their headcanon is no more valid than any other person who ignores lore. Keeping to the lore a reunion does not take place for destroy - Period.

Destroy is the CRAPPIEST ending you can get despite being the only choice that makes any sense for Shep to make.

Bioware basically wrote themselves in a corner because nobody really double checked and voted on this

[zambot]

Whether or not you believe Shepard survives at the end of ME3, ME3 is definitely the end of Shepard's story. There will be no sequels or no new content that include Shepard after the events at the end of ME3.

[The Twilight God]

zambot wrote...

Whether or not you believe Shepard survives at the end of ME3, ME3 is definitely the end of Shepard's story. There will be no sequels or no new content that include Shepard after the events at the end of ME3.

Which is what makes the breath scene so pointless. Destroy needs to remove relay destruction and the geth/EDI deaths so that it can stand equally with the others. That or provide an actual payoff with Shepard surviving and being happy. Otherwise, from a metagamming perspective Destroy is a fools option.

[mopotter]

zambot wrote...

Whether or not you believe Shepard survives at the end of ME3, ME3 is definitely the end of Shepard's story. There will be no sequels or no new content that include Shepard after the events at the end of ME3.

Personally, I never wanted a 4th instalment of Shepard story.  I just wanted ME3 to actually end with my choices from previous games to count and for some of my Shepards to celebrate victory with the team and LI tosting the fallen, while others died to defeat or turn back the reaper threat and be remembered by the survivors.  I did like that part in the EC.

[AresKeith]

The Twilight God wrote...

zambot wrote...

Whether or not you believe Shepard survives at the end of ME3, ME3 is definitely the end of Shepard's story. There will be no sequels or no new content that include Shepard after the events at the end of ME3.

Which is what makes the breath scene so pointless. Destroy needs to remove relay destruction and the geth/EDI deaths so that it can stand equally with the others. That or provide an actual payoff with Shepard surviving and being happy. Otherwise, from a metagamming perspective Destroy is a fools option.

or as 3DandBeyond called it as canon and non-canon at the same because Bioware did it on purpose

[Reorte]

zambot wrote...

Whether or not you believe Shepard survives at the end of ME3, ME3 is definitely the end of Shepard's story. There will be no sequels or no new content that include Shepard after the events at the end of ME3.

Sure, no problem with that, but I don't know what it has to do with this thread.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

This weekend was the first Multiplayer challenge I've missed. I'm done with it now as well as with any DLC until I see my Destroy ending, high EMS Shepard alive. And I mean walkin' around alive, not moving pebbles around with his toes in a rubble pile "alive."

[Pitznik]

The Twilight God wrote...

You fix Sol Relay. Then you have to FTL to Arcturus which probably isn't that long a trip based on Ashley's comments in ME1 (it's 36 ly). But beyond Arcturus it isn't feasible. Then the trips becomes years long or decades. A repair crew traveling for years just to fix a relay, which is gonna be a big project, isn;t going to be easy. The quarians are really the only species equip to do that.  Everyone else would have to build their own liveships and completely adapt their culture. This isn;t going to happen overnight.
 

Why do you assume only people currently in Sol system will start repairs? Humans will take care of our relay, Turians will just fly from Palaven to theirs, salarians will fix theirs, Asari from Thessia will... well, they will stay dead. But every world who was civilised enough can fix the relay in their system.

Relays were documented and researched, so there won't be such a big problem to fix them. It will definitely take some time, but not years - well, years maybe for few relays that are stuck in systems where there are no high tech worls, or where Reapers destroyed civilisation so much they're incapable of doing it on their own.

The Twilight God wrote...


Bioware people have also
said it's Shep's last breath. They all have different opinions on
it. They can make up anything at any time because it's not written in
stone. Ergo, their headcanon is no more valid than any other person who
ignores lore. Keeping to the lore a reunion does not take place for
destroy - Period.

Destroy is the CRAPPIEST ending you can get despite being the only choice that makes any sense for Shep to make.

Wrong. Bioware people said they don't know what happened after Shepard taking breath because their story ends at that very moment. They said it COULD BE his last breath, not that IT IS.

Also, in my copy of ME3 that Hepler character isn't included, so I'd rather stick to what is in my game, and that would be Shepard being alive at high EMS ending.

Modifié par Pitznik, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:25 .

[Pitznik]

Reorte wrote...

For the record, what I would've found satisfying - remove the breath scene and replace the Stargazer (so it's post credits) with a hand pulling Shepard out of the rubble (not necessarily a cewmember's hand, that wouldn't make sense), and with Shepard looking alive enough to very definitely not be dead. I'd have still liked an actual reunion but I think this would've been enough for me.

That surprises me. The scene we have and the scene you described have exactly the same meaning, one is just more subtle and more dramatic.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

zambot wrote...

Whether or not you believe Shepard survives at the end of ME3, ME3 is definitely the end of Shepard's story. There will be no sequels or no new content that include Shepard after the events at the end of ME3.

And thus my part in this franchise will be at an end.  As it will with many, if not most, of the other players of the entire trilogy.  "Say 'goodbye' to Hollywood."  Say "goodbye" to revenue....

[Taboo]

Pitznik wrote...

Reorte wrote...

For the record, what I would've found satisfying - remove the breath scene and replace the Stargazer (so it's post credits) with a hand pulling Shepard out of the rubble (not necessarily a cewmember's hand, that wouldn't make sense), and with Shepard looking alive enough to very definitely not be dead. I'd have still liked an actual reunion but I think this would've been enough for me.

That surprises me. The scene we have and the scene you described have exactly the same meaning, one is just more subtle and more dramatic.

[Bill Casey]

Destroy is by far the best ending whether Shepard lives or not...
Low EMS Destroy and Refuse are better than the other options... By far...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:28 .

[krasnoarmeets]

In the destroy ending and every other one all the fleets leave the system and the mass relays are toast, but supposedly repairable, right? Given that all the fleets have left the system and can't return until the relays have been repaired it makes rescuing Shepard from the rubble a little bit problematic, doesn't it? I'm sure there are shuttles left on Earth, but didn't it say that all tech would be damaged? Given that the Citadel's mass effect envelope would be down, wouldn't he be exposed to vacuum?

[devSin]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The plaque scene and the breath scene are days or even weeks apart.

Weeks.

Which means that you're still trapped on the station, buried under rubble, gravely wounded and without food or water.

If you had been rescued, your squad would have heard about it (presumably in the same way they heard about Anderson being dead).

Closure!

[Taboo]

devSin wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The plaque scene and the breath scene are days or even weeks apart.

Weeks.

Which means that you're still trapped on the station, buried under rubble, gravely wounded and without food or water.

If you had been rescued, your squad would have heard about it (presumably in the same way they heard about Anderson being dead).

Closure!

Not sure if serious... 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I've got another head canon. Want to know it?

It's just before the Cronos mission. Liara comes up to Shepard's cabin the two of them relax on the bed. Liara looks up at the stars.

Liara: You know Shepard, one ship could really get lost out there, find a world off the grid, settle down.

[I turn off my console.]

Shepard: I think we need a shower. (motions)
Liara: Yes, that sounds nice.
Shepard: (turns on music system loud, then turns on shower, Liara starts to disrobe, Shepard shakes head no) Do you know of any?
Liara: (looks puzzled) What?
Shepard: Worlds off the grid? Kind that would be overlooked even by the reapers.
Liara: A few. Why? Are you thinking...
Shepard: Yes. Can you leave a ghost tracer?
Liara: Yes.
Shepard: (gets pair of guns out, tranquilizer rounds)
Liara: (eyes brighten) I'll get my ...
Shepard: try this ... (hands Liara her armor)
Liara: Goddess, you've been...
Shepard: (evil grin.... puts on newly purchased Cerberus armor) Shadow Broker time. (the two take elevator)
*takes care of crew, straps them down and O2 breathers on shuttle deck and takes four assault rifles, ammo, sniper rifles, pistols.*
Shepard: lock out the elevator and override the shuttle bay doors, use my access codes.
Joker: Vega! What's going on down there? Vega? Security to Shuttle Bay on the double!
EDI: Someone... I believe it's Commander Shepard. Commander Shepard has locked out the elevator and has overridden and locked out control of the Shuttle Bay doors.

Liara: done. Let's go.
Shepard: Yeeeehaaaaaa!!!!!! (renegade +200)

Joker: I don't believe this. Major Alenko, Looks like you're in charge, sir.
Kaiden: WTF happened?
Joker: Shepard stole a shuttle. Status of everyone in the bay?
EDI: I've regained control. I show life signs of five. It appears that Dr. T'Soni is missing as well.
Kaiden: I just knew Shepard was still with Cerberus. And Dr. T'Soni, an accomplice? Well well. EDI, get Dr. Michel down to the Shuttle Bay, and get Hackett on the comm.

Liara: We'll do this in four system jumps and we'll end up .... here.
Shepard: Hitting the relay in 5, 4, 3.... (jump) what kind of place is it?
Liara: undeveloped, garden world that was hit hard in what we now know as the Innusannon cycle. Plant life is abundant and l-dna. I was there a few years ago looking for prothean sites and found nothing. There is wildlife on the world. For climate I'd suggest one of these islands just north of the equator. For hiding, I'd suggest the southern part of this continent.
Shepard: You realize we're fugitives even if our side wins.
Liara: Yes. I'll periodically monitor communications. If we win, I know some good forgers. We'll have to stay out of council space. You'll need a plastic surgeon. I'll disable the black box.

Three days later a red wave passes over the world. Liara checks the comm chatter and it seems like Javik avenged his people by firing the Crucible. Javik is hero of the Galaxy. But no one can find him. The fleets are stranded at that rendezvous point.

Liara: Looks like we won. Javik fired the Crucible. They can't find him. I guess that was that red wave.
Shepard: Hmmm.. If they do find us I wonder if I can claim indoctrination?
Liara: Where does that leave me?
Shepard: I forced you.
Both: We'll stay in the Terminus.
Shepard: You still own that property in Nos Astra? And does the Asari government have any say there?
Liara: I was renting it out. If it's still standing yes, I own it. I think the council is going to have their hands full maintaining control over their homeworlds for a number of years. Corporate Illium may want to become independent.
Shepard: You know, this was worth it anyway.
Liara: But now you'll be known as Commander Shepard the deserter.
Shepard: But the alive deserter, with the alive Liara. And that thing could have gone sideways. All our eggs in a device we didn't even know was going to work? We are going to have to ditch this shuttle when we return to civilization and probably steal something else. Ah the life of a gangsta.

It's every bit as valid.

[Pitznik]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

In the destroy ending and every other one all the fleets leave the system and the mass relays are toast, but supposedly repairable, right? Given that all the fleets have left the system and can't return until the relays have been repaired it makes rescuing Shepard from the rubble a little bit problematic, doesn't it? I'm sure there are shuttles left on Earth, but didn't it say that all tech would be damaged? Given that the Citadel's mass effect envelope would be down, wouldn't he be exposed to vacuum?

They leave using FTL drives, not the relay, which is explicitly shown. So they can come back using as much time as it took them to leave. All tech is damaged in low EMS, not in high, which again is shown.

[The Twilight God]

Pitznik wrote...


Why do you assume only people currently in Sol system will start repairs? Humans will take care of our relay, Turians will just fly from Palaven to theirs, salarians will fix theirs, Asari from Thessia will... well, they will stay dead. But every world who was civilised enough can fix the relay in their system.

I don't. It's going to take a long time regardless. If it was just Sol system it would take milennia, not centuries. They all have to FTL it all the way to the far off relays which means building liveships and whatnot. Of course this is in the face of an obliteraed infrastructure. They'd need to get their planet back on track beofre they can even think about building new fleets and adapting to quarian lifestyle. 

Relays were documented and researched, so there won't be such a big problem to fix them. It will definitely take some time, but not years - well, years maybe for few relays that are stuck in systems where there are no high tech worls, or where Reapers destroyed civilisation so much they're incapable of doing it on their own.

Nope, there is nothing at all suggesting they know how relays workk or how to fix them.

And for the record, the reaper DID destroy most civilizations to the point they are incapable of doing this own there own. At least for the foreseeable future. Only the salarians are relatively intact.

Wrong. Bioware people said they don't know what happened after Shepard taking breath because their story ends at that very moment. They said it COULD BE his last breath, not that IT IS.

Yeah, it COULD BE. 
COULD BE is basically saying it's up in the air.
Control Shepard COULD make a new body.
Synthesis shepard COULD sprout out of a cabbage with a new custom grown body.

Since we will never see Shepard again the Destroy ending has no payoff. He might as well be dead right then and there. Yet Destroy has all the sacrifice and put the galaxy in the worst possible situation. It is the worst ending possible.

Also, in my copy of ME3 that Hepler character isn't included, so I'd rather stick to what is in my game, and that would be Shepard being alive at high EMS ending.

Yeah, Shepard alive at that moment. He COULD be dead 5 secs later. Nothiing in your game tells you what ultimately became of Shepard. This is how Bioware treats a hero of 3 games beloved by millions. It's disgusting. 

[devSin]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Not sure if serious...

You know I am.

The scene is garbage. It's senseless and ineffective. You can probably fill an entire day listing all the ways to poke holes in this tripe.

I've been asked by this game to believe some pretty dumb things; asking me to believe that carcass somewhere in limbo is going to magically live again is just too much.

They failed to do their job, twice now, if that's even what they intended. (And as I've argued in the past, I don't think it's what they intended at all: the scene is a throwaway gesture, devoid of meaning or intent—they couldn't tell you what happens, not because they want you to imagine it for yourself but because they truly have no idea.)

Modifié par devSin, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:48 .