760 réponses à ce sujet

[MongoNYC]

Applepie_Svk wrote...


SPECULATIONS FROM EVERYWHERE !

Speculations are like ***holes.  Everyone's got one apparently..

[AlanC9]

The Twilight God wrote...
]

How are they not stranded?
Because they can take off?
And go where exactly?
 
Fuel isn't infinite.

Unless you scoop it from gas giants.

[JBONE29]

Pitznik wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Most people hated Bioware's original completely ambigious endings. They promised to provide clarification and closure. However they were too cheap to clarify the Shep lives ending.

"Shep lives" is not really an ambigouos statement. Dead people don't breathe. What is there to clarify? We know that with high EMS destroy Shepard lives, what happens after isn't shown or said. Implications of that scene + LI/Liara not putting the name on memorial wall is that he both lives AND his crew is aware of that. Nothing more is presented. But that is enough for me.

You don't think that leaves a gaping plot hole, namely how is the crew aware of his death.  They are on an alien planet when the memorial service happens.  They are nowhere near She's body, so they wouldn't have first hand knowledge.  The only way that they could logically know that Shep is alive is if someone told them through the ship's communication device.  It actually goes the same way for them putting up Anderson's name in all the compliant endings.  The scene can be easily done with two sentices and a blank screen.

Hackett (C and S):  Nomandy, We've recovered Admiral Anderson's body and Commander Shepards tags.  I'm afraid they didn't make it.

Hackett (D): Normandy, We've recovered Admiral Anderson's body near Commander Shepard.  I'm afraind Anderson didn't make it, and Shepard's in critical condition.

[Reorte]

A thought that's just occured to me - if you accept "Shepard lives" because that's obviously the intention of the writers then presumably you accept that Synthesis is perfect and has no downsides whatsoever, because that's clearly the intention of the writers.

[Lucrece]

But synthesis has downsides, namely the death of the character you're most attached to -- your avatar-- and no reunion with your LI. There's a reason why people complain that they rigged the Destroy ending with AI genocide so they could deter everyone from picking it.

[Oransel]

Bioware failed again, what a surprise

[Kia Purity]

I cannot facepalm any more than I have already been doing at Bioware.

They're obviously not communicating with each other or really caring very much. One person says something, the other person says something else completely.

From now on, everything Bioware says isn't canon unless it's in the game. And even then, the endings sucked and I cried and headcannoned that it was all a bad dream and Shepard woke up in the medbay in ME1.

STILL A BETTER ENDING THAN ME3.

[jetfire118]

Kia Purity wrote...

I cannot facepalm any more than I have already been doing at Bioware.

They're obviously not communicating with each other or really caring very much. One person says something, the other person says something else completely.

From now on, everything Bioware says isn't canon unless it's in the game. And even then, the endings sucked and I cried and headcannoned that it was all a bad dream and Shepard woke up in the medbay in ME1.

STILL A BETTER ENDING THAN ME3.

Hell, BIO killed all the hope of seeing shepard and the crew again at SDCC. Great ****g job BIO End of Evangalion had a better ending then ME3.

[v TricKy v]

wright1978 wrote...


Breath scene is completely ambigious. Without reading the file name you would not even be sure it is Shep.
No it is not a good place to finish telling the story, just as cutting with the Normandy crashed on a distant jungle planet wasn't the place to leave it. High EMS destroy should have showed Shep getting rescued or had Shep reading the epilogue. Something to show categorically that Shep survived. Currently the high ems destroy epilogue is completely isolated from the Shep lives afterthought breath clip.

So much this.
The epilogue would be 1000 times better if they just show Shepard getting rescued or standing up from the rubble and than let Shepard speak.

[jetfire118]

v TricKy v wrote...

wright1978 wrote...


Breath scene is completely ambigious. Without reading the file name you would not even be sure it is Shep.
No it is not a good place to finish telling the story, just as cutting with the Normandy crashed on a distant jungle planet wasn't the place to leave it. High EMS destroy should have showed Shep getting rescued or had Shep reading the epilogue. Something to show categorically that Shep survived. Currently the high ems destroy epilogue is completely isolated from the Shep lives afterthought breath clip.

So much this.
The epilogue would be 1000 times better if they just show Shepard getting rescued or standing up from the rubble and than let Shepard speak.

I wouldve been satisfied if Shepard just gets out of the rubble and just stands looks straight and just smiles. Atleast showing he survived.

[Kataphrut94]

It's like the ending of Inception. If you believe it, it is so.

EC added that extra bit of hope that the original one lacked. If Shepard survived, his squad knows and they might just be heading off to rescue him. Of course, there is the matter of him being inches away from death, but that's where the glimmer of hope comes into it.

[The Twilight God]

Lucrece wrote...

But synthesis has downsides, namely the death of the character you're most attached to -- your avatar-- and no reunion with your LI. There's a reason why people complain that they rigged the Destroy ending with AI genocide so they could deter everyone from picking it.

Shepard dies in all endings. As Destroy has no tangible payoff (some form of reunion w/crew) Shep is dead for all intents and purposes. A body in a pile of rubble. The End. The last we ever see of him. The player doesn't get anything more than a Synthesis or Control player gets. He just dooms his crew, dooms the geth, dooms EDI directly and leaves the galxy in a "dark age" for the next couple decades or century. From a metagamming perspective Destroy is a fools choice. It's outcome is inferior.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 17 juillet 2012 - 04:51 .

[SpamBot2000]

You'd think it would be simple to do a tiny scene with him crawling out of the rubble. Then you could do an Interrupt to catch the attention of some search and rescue personnel. Or ignore that and wallow in the sweet grimness of it all. Now you'd have clear implications. They could go on Twitter and really clarify it if anyone still was left in doubt. That particular case closed. But Art, damn it.

[The Twilight God]

AlanC9 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...
]

How are they not stranded?
Because they can take off?
And go where exactly?
 
Fuel isn't infinite.

Unless you scoop it from gas giants.

I believe the Normandy used anti-protons/proton collision for thrust power. Or some special metastable alloy stuff if you get Samara's upgrade. Both of which require fuel from an actual refinery.

Certain civilian ships use plain old hydrogen cells and can skim gas giants. But because it isn't compressed and processed it isn;t the same as having actual fuel. It would be like a car skimming gasoline fumes to add a little more longetivity, but it's not the same as getting the liquid form.

SpamBot2000 wrote...

You'd think it would be simple to do a tiny scene with him crawling out of the rubble. Then you could do an Interrupt to catch the attention of some search and rescue personnel. Or ignore that and wallow in the sweet grimness of it all. Now you'd have clear implications. They could go on Twitter and really clarify it if anyone still was left in doubt. That particular case closed. But Art, damn it.

If they had to go on twitter to explainit they failed. If an ending can't convey an idea on it's own it is a failure. And not everyone reads forums or twitter.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 17 juillet 2012 - 01:07 .

[crimzontearz]

My question to them remains. Are you content guys? Are you happy knowing so many are heartbroken? That so many can't replay the game at all? Do you get some sort of sadistic pleasure from it? If so...mission accomplished, I am sure giving some people a measure of REAL AND EXPLICIT CLOSURE AND HAPPINESS would have totally ruined it for you

[TheRevanchist]

There is much more wrong with Synthisis than just "Shepard is dead"...sorry to burst your bubble. The fact is it is just as morally abhorent as the other choices, because your basiclly geneticlly raping the galaxy agaisnt it's will. Javek even tells you the uniformity of their society is exactly WHY they failed to defeat the Reapers, They all conformed to one idea, one strategy, and once the enemy learned it, it was game over. Lets not forget your doing exactly what Saren and the Star Child wants...you know...the ENEMIES of this story. Yea...because you fought them all these years only to get to the finish line and go "hell yea! Im gonna do what I stoped them from doing!" Honestly, if you choose Synthesis....just stop playing halfway through ME1...same result.

[SpamBot2000]

The Twilight God wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

You'd think it would be simple to do a tiny scene with him crawling out of the rubble. Then you could do an Interrupt to catch the attention of some search and rescue personnel. Or ignore that and wallow in the sweet grimness of it all. Now you'd have clear implications. They could go on Twitter and really clarify it if anyone still was left in doubt. That particular case closed. But Art, damn it.

If they had to go on twitter to explainit they failed. If an ending can't convey an idea on it's own it is a failure. And not everyone reads forums or twitter.

Oh, I absolutely agree. But at least they would have a clear message if they were to go on Twitter about it. Get help -> Survive. 

[Pitznik]

I wonder, where the hell Normandy is actually. They're supposed to go to rendezvous pont, that means no uncharted planet, no dark space, but some sensible location. Sword fleet doesn't seem to use Mass Relay, they look like entering FTL, so they should be still in the Local Cluster... but only system in Local Cluster is Sol (I know that's how it is in game, I have no knowledge about astronomy whatsoever), and there are no planets so terraformed to be green and habitable by humans... Mass Relay also is pretty much the first thing to be damaged after Citadel shoots the red space magic beam. So where the hell are they and how they got there?

[mopotter]

iakus wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I believe yes they could have removed the star gazer. 

What I could see is getting rid of the memorial wall or just show Anderson's and (ugh) EDI's names.  Then have a scene like the wall scene later on with someone in the Med lab and people crowded around.  Camera pulls in, people part and it's Shepard alive.  LI enters and they exchange a knowing glance if possible or some recognition that it's over at last and they are alive.  This scene could take place as Hackett is talking but he just talks about rebuilding and then the voice over turns into Shepard's voice talking right when we see that Shepard is alive, about working together and all that.

It doesn't even have to be that complicated.  They can keep the Stargazer, keep the memorial wall.  Just add a line to it as the LI is hesitating.  Over the intercomm, have someone from the Fleet call and say "Shepard's been found.  He/She's alive!"

Or if we want to get fancier, remove the breath scene, have Shepard wake up in a hospital.  If we want to toss in a reunion have a silouette appear at the door and the VA for the LI simply say "Shepard"

My own personal thought would be to remove both the breath scene and the memmorial wall, and have a funeral.  If Shepard's dead, Hackett is speaking at Shepard's funeral.  If Shepard's alive, Shep is speaking at Anderson's.

::sigh::It would have taken so little effort to provide genuine hope and closure..   This ain't rocket surgery.

Either of these would have worked!  

I like the memorial wall and when Shepard died it was nice seeing them put her name up.  But the breath scene where they just start to put it up and then don't, to me, that was lame.  None of them, as far as I know, are telepaths so a feeling that Shepard was a live is just hoping nothing else.   

[Pitznik]

mopotter wrote...

Either of these would have worked!  

I like the memorial wall and when Shepard died it was nice seeing them put her name up.  But the breath scene where they just start to put it up and then don't, to me, that was lame.  None of them, as far as I know, are telepaths so a feeling that Shepard was a live is just hoping nothing else.   

Unless they got the message "We found Shepard."

[riesenwiesel]

Pitznik wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Either of these would have worked!  

I like the memorial wall and when Shepard died it was nice seeing them put her name up.  But the breath scene where they just start to put it up and then don't, to me, that was lame.  None of them, as far as I know, are telepaths so a feeling that Shepard was a live is just hoping nothing else.   

Unless they got the message "We found Shepard."

In that case they were pretty fast printing out that nameplate... so much trust in their friend and leader, really?

[BDelacroix]

Premade nameplates being standard issue for everyone when they join. Just in case.

[Iakus]

riesenwiesel wrote...

In that case they were pretty fast printing out that nameplate... so much trust in their friend and leader, really?

I'd find it much easier to believe there was some kind of delay in getting word to Normandy concerning Shepard's survival than Shep's LI suddenly being Force-Sensistive.

[mopotter]

chemiclord wrote...

iakus wrote...

::sigh::It would have taken so little effort to provide genuine hope and closure..   This ain't rocket surgery.

For you, perhaps.

Thousands of others would hate your scene because it's not how "their Shepard" would act.

But if they had actually made choices count it would have worked, at least better than what we have.  I have Shepards who should have died because of the choices they made in past games.  I was prepared for them to die.  I have other Shepards who should have had a real survival ending, something like this.  

I loved the ending of ME1 where Shepard is wounded and coming out of the rubble.  I loved ME2 where Shepard is walking through the surviving crew members and took a moment to remember the fallen.  

They took away my reason for replaying the game.  No matter what I did, it does not matter.  They didn't need to make up 3 endings which didn't have anything to do with the story.  Just made the choices count.  One ending with different variables.    But they gave us 3.  OK I didn't expect them to get rid of them, but they could have made the destroy ending relevant by having someone find Shepard instead of just showing that stupid charred body, and it is charred.