760 réponses à ce sujet

[xjmz250]

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's an RPG folks. Do you want Bioware to take away your adventure and tell you what happens to your character?

Or would you rather it continue to be your story and you can say "Yes, he/she lived." or "Well, I guess he/she died."?

Yes, its an RPG. Now lets take a moment to think of the most famous RPG series IN THE WORLD. Final Fantasy. Now tell me please which Final Fantasy game didnt close their story and force you to speculate what happened to the characters in it. Id like to know because last time i checked every single game in the series closed its individual story. Now I dont know about the rest of the people that have ever played Final Fantasy but i never felt like getting the ending of the story i paid for and knowing what happens due to my efforts was Square taking away my adventure. I still met characters i loved and enemies i despised and could say that the journey was overall satisfying by the time i defeated the final boss. So either this is your first RPG or you are that in love with your own imagination that the first chance that a game FORCES you to make up an ending that you want (because you are essentially making up everything Bioware couldnt) you jump so hard on the chance that you feel the need to defend it no matter how borked it may be.

[MordiMoro]

In addition to the breath was enough to put a voice-over "is here!"

[Gtacatalina]

3DandBeyond wrote...

It's also great to know that at least one writer thinks that "beacon of hope" could be Shepard's dying gasp. Great. Yeah, that's exactly what you do with the hero of three games.

When I heard that I facepalmed myself.

Exactly Shepard is a bloody hero,  I imagined that my paragon fem Shep would conquer the reapers and live to tell the tale and not end up in a rubble heap with my loved one and friends all thinking I might be dead! Yeah Bioware that's a great ending!
For my renagade male Shep I was expecting him to die in a blaze of glory defeating the reapers and not to drop himself into some green or red light to die!

Chris Helper-apparently also believes the "real" kid was needed for players to know Shepard cared about Earth.  God, please new writers.

Wow seriously, I hadn't heard that!

[SpamBot2000]

It's Chris HePLer by the way. I guess he was just kinda nervous about appearing in public in association with ME3 and just blurted out that thing about "dying breath" to make sure no definitive stand was taken at SDCC regarding any speculations whatsoever. But really, the whole panel was a pretty weak effort by Bioware, especially since it was called "The Past, Present and Future of Mass Effect". I wish they could sort out their situation one way or the other so I could either look forward to something or just walk away from them for good and never look back.

[crimzontearz]

SpamBot2000 wrote...It's Chris HePLer by the way. I guess he was just kinda nervous about appearing in public in association with ME3 and just blurted out that thing about "dying breath" to make sure no definitive stand was taken at SDCC regarding any speculations whatsoever. But really, the whole panel was a pretty weak effort by Bioware, especially since it was called "The Past, Present and Future of Mass Effect". I wish they could sort out their situation one way or the other so I could either look forward to something or just walk away from them for good and never look back.

and that makes all this more acceptable HOW?

[wright1978]

iakus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

OMFG this pizza is delicious.

Well that's the bum wrap for you. It sucks ass. All I can do to help you is tell you what things you could watch to make it a bit clearer.

Hudson is using film techniques here and he failed for the most part but that doesn't mean it can't be analyzed as such.

And instead of going "We were way too ambiguous with our ending.  People kept saying how depressing it was.  Let's make it clearer and add closure to it"  They doubled down and kept the breath scene.

Same mistake.  Twice

Yeah they promised closure and clarification from EC because they accepted original endings were too ambigious. Then they refused to provide closure & clarification for high EMS destroy.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It doesn't make it acceptable at all. I'm finding that having played through the entire series through the EC just to give the thing a fair chance just opened up the same old sores again that were there the first time I played the game I am finished with ME. ME1 I would give an 8.9 to. ME2 a 9.0 because of the improved combat -- it would have scored higher if it had a plot, but it was okay if one looked at it as mini-episodes with no overarching plot. In comparison ME3 gets a whopping 6.5 for the single player campaign and a 7.5 overall -- yes the multiplayer actually raises the score and you can all facepalm here.

Until they rectify the ending situation, even if they include the fix in the first paid DLC that would work, I don't see any future DLC actually working. The EC high EMS destroy is still way too bleak. The relays and Citadel should have suffered far less damage than they did on the cutscenes, and Shepard should have been shown actually having survived in an obvious manner like actually recovering from injuries in a hospital reading and/or being visited by their LI. Closure. Not the big middle finger.

Don't use the destroy ending to sell synthesis.

Don't use the destroy ending to sell control.

Without this I don't think the franchise can be saved in all honesty. It's over. And I just know DA3 is going to be every bit as dark and dreary so I'll probably not even play it. I'll get my single player kicks from Bethesda from here on. They may not develop character that well, or write great plot, but they don't pretend to either. They're world builders, and you can explore for hundreds of hours. There's the big difference. BioWare pretends to write great plot.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:20 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

You people really need everything to be spelled out for you, huh?

This is the last ME game featuring Shepard. Don't worry.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

You people really need everything to be spelled out for you, huh?

This is the last ME game featuring Shepard. Don't worry.

I know this is the last game featuring Shepard. I don't like a story ending on a head canon. It didn't work in this situation. They failed miserably. They rely on twitter to make plot changes and clarifications throughout development. Good writers won't do that. They will write a good story. Instead Bioware writers jerk us around at these conventions and on twitter contradicting the meanings of different things in the story. So now I'm calling them out. I'm from Missouri. Show me.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:26 .

[crimzontearz]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...It doesn't make it acceptable at all. I'm finding that having played through the entire series through the EC just to give the thing a fair chance just opened up the same old sores again that were there the first time I played the game I am finished with ME. ME1 I would give an 8.9 to. ME2 a 9.0 because of the improved combat -- it would have scored higher if it had a plot, but it was okay if one looked at it as mini-episodes with no overarching plot. In comparison ME3 gets a whopping 6.5 for the single player campaign and a 7.5 overall -- yes the multiplayer actually raises the score and you can all facepalm here. Until they rectify the ending situation, even if they include the fix in the first paid DLC that would work, I don't see any future DLC actually working. The EC high EMS destroy is still way too bleak. The relays and Citadel should have suffered far less damage than they did on the cutscenes, and Shepard should have been shown actually having survived in an obvious manner like actually recovering from injuries in a hospital reading and/or being visited by their LI. Closure. Not the big middle finger. Don't use the destroy ending to sell synthesis. Don't use the destroy ending to sell control.Without this I don't think the franchise can be saved in all honesty. It's over. And I just know DA3 is going to be every bit as dark and dreary so I'll probably not even play it. I'll get my single player kicks from Bethesda from here on. They may not develop character that well, or write great plot, but they don't pretend to either. They're world builders, and you can explore for hundreds of hours. There's the big difference. BioWare pretends to write great plot.

and story/production value/story driven co op play from 343

[SpamBot2000]

crimzontearz wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...It's Chris HePLer by the way. I guess he was just kinda nervous about appearing in public in association with ME3 and just blurted out that thing about "dying breath" to make sure no definitive stand was taken at SDCC regarding any speculations whatsoever. But really, the whole panel was a pretty weak effort by Bioware, especially since it was called "The Past, Present and Future of Mass Effect". I wish they could sort out their situation one way or the other so I could either look forward to something or just walk away from them for good and never look back.

and that makes all this more acceptable HOW?

Just saying he probably wasn't trying to yank everyone's chain, not saying Bioware's speculation policy is acceptable.

[crimzontearz]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...SpamBot2000 wrote...It's Chris HePLer by the way. I guess he was just kinda nervous about appearing in public in association with ME3 and just blurted out that thing about "dying breath" to make sure no definitive stand was taken at SDCC regarding any speculations whatsoever. But really, the whole panel was a pretty weak effort by Bioware, especially since it was called "The Past, Present and Future of Mass Effect". I wish they could sort out their situation one way or the other so I could either look forward to something or just walk away from them for good and never look back.and that makes all this more acceptable HOW?

Just saying he probably wasn't trying to yank everyone's chain, not saying Bioware's speculation policy is acceptable.

then he should have had the common sense to STFU really

[Asharad Hett]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

You people really need everything to be spelled out for you, huh?

This is the last ME game featuring Shepard. Don't worry.

Yep, the next one has James "the moron" Vega.

[Aetika]

When next BW games comes out, I just let them imagine my money, just as I had to imagine my ending. That´s the lesson I learned.

[wright1978]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

You people really need everything to be spelled out for you, huh?

This is the last ME game featuring Shepard. Don't worry.

Why is it ok to provide closure and clarification for all other endings yet have utter ambiguity for high EMS destroy ending.

[KEMKA]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It doesn't make it acceptable at all. I'm finding that having played through the entire series through the EC just to give the thing a fair chance just opened up the same old sores again that were there the first time I played the game I am finished with ME. ME1 I would give an 8.9 to. ME2 a 9.0 because of the improved combat -- it would have scored higher if it had a plot, but it was okay if one looked at it as mini-episodes with no overarching plot. In comparison ME3 gets a whopping 6.5 for the single player campaign and a 7.5 overall -- yes the multiplayer actually raises the score and you can all facepalm here.

Until they rectify the ending situation, even if they include the fix in the first paid DLC that would work, I don't see any future DLC actually working. The EC high EMS destroy is still way too bleak. The relays and Citadel should have suffered far less damage than they did on the cutscenes, and Shepard should have been shown actually having survived in an obvious manner like actually recovering from injuries in a hospital reading and/or being visited by their LI. Closure. Not the big middle finger.

Don't use the destroy ending to sell synthesis.

Don't use the destroy ending to sell control.

Without this I don't think the franchise can be saved in all honesty. It's over. And I just know DA3 is going to be every bit as dark and dreary so I'll probably not even play it. I'll get my single player kicks from Bethesda from here on. They may not develop character that well, or write great plot, but they don't pretend to either. They're world builders, and you can explore for hundreds of hours. There's the big difference. BioWare pretends to write great plot.

I guess it really is down to opinion because I found the ending for high EMS really moving "If this war has taught us anything, it is that we are at our strongest when we al work together" <--- that made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!. The relays are damaged but they can be repaired (you don't have to understand something fully to be able to fix it). You go from the strong possibility of being completely annihilated - to surviving, there's a 'future' again. Surely that's an enormous thing?

Gtacatalina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

It's also great to know that at least one writer thinks that "beacon of hope" could be Shepard's dying gasp. Great. Yeah, that's exactly what you do with the hero of three games.

When I heard that I facepalmed myself.

Exactly
Shepard is a bloody hero,  I imagined that my paragon fem Shep would
conquer the reapers and live to tell the tale and not end up in a rubble
heap with my loved one and friends all thinking I might be dead! Yeah
Bioware that's a great ending!
For my renagade male Shep I was
expecting him to die in a blaze of glory defeating the reapers and not
to drop himself into some green or red light to die!

Chris
Helper-apparently also believes the "real" kid was needed for players
to know Shepard cared about Earth.  God, please new writers.

Wow seriously, I hadn't heard that!

How is that ending any less heroic the going in a blaze of glory etc? If anything it seems a lot more difficult to do, to make the decision to just lie down and die, it's a quiet accepting kind of thing, there no adrenalin rush, no bullets flying past etc, just knowing that if you die then the rest of the galaxy lives, seems incredibly selfless to me:blink:

[ddraigcoch123]

xjmz250 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's an RPG folks. Do you want Bioware to take away your adventure and tell you what happens to your character?

Or would you rather it continue to be your story and you can say "Yes, he/she lived." or "Well, I guess he/she died."?

Yes, its an RPG. Now lets take a moment to think of the most famous RPG series IN THE WORLD. Final Fantasy. Now tell me please which Final Fantasy game didnt close their story and force you to speculate what happened to the characters in it. Id like to know because last time i checked every single game in the series closed its individual story. Now I dont know about the rest of the people that have ever played Final Fantasy but i never felt like getting the ending of the story i paid for and knowing what happens due to my efforts was Square taking away my adventure. I still met characters i loved and enemies i despised and could say that the journey was overall satisfying by the time i defeated the final boss. So either this is your first RPG or you are that in love with your own imagination that the first chance that a game FORCES you to make up an ending that you want (because you are essentially making up everything Bioware couldnt) you jump so hard on the chance that you feel the need to defend it no matter how borked it may be.

well not having played final fantasy i cant comment on the game but if i understand your description you are not comparing like for like... 'every singe game in the series closed its individual story'.....
so my question is... who's individual story was i supposed to be playing in ME2 and ME3?
and all i am asking for is the same level of closure for al possible endings in ME3... n
no glorious death, no noble sacrifice... just a last gasp in the rubble... hum... ok for my renegade a***h*** but not for my paragon a***kicker...

[crimzontearz]

Kate....almost universally people pick Destroy to save Shepard. Yes.....for some including me that and a reunion is more important than anything

Modifié par crimzontearz, 18 juillet 2012 - 11:04 .

[ddraigcoch123]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

You people really need everything to be spelled out for you, huh?

This is the last ME game featuring Shepard. Don't worry.

yeah thats kinda the point of my dissapontment and frustration.. this is goodbye to my/BW shepard and i didnt get an end option that fitted with the two previous games... just looking for consistency... and hell if they wanted shep dead could they not have had a deathbed scene worthy of the heroic journey we have al been through?

you know they could always have done what film directors do... made themselves a directors cut where everyone died... you know to keep their artistic integrity and all...

[ddraigcoch123]

crimzontearz wrote...

Kate....almost universally people pick Destroy to save Shepard. Yes.....for some including me that and a reunion is more important than anything

yep totally agree.. that was what the game gave us/me.. the opportunity to know and care about the characters and the galaxy we lived in.. all i want is an open door for my imagination (for head cannoning...) i'm finding it hard to lift my shep from the rubble...

[wright1978]

ddraigcoch123 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Kate....almost universally people pick Destroy to save Shepard. Yes.....for some including me that and a reunion is more important than anything

yep totally agree.. that was what the game gave us/me.. the opportunity to know and care about the characters and the galaxy we lived in.. all i want is an open door for my imagination (for head cannoning...) i'm finding it hard to lift my shep from the rubble...

I certainly don't pick destroy to save shep. Destroy is the best ending imo and Shep surviving is just a nice bonus. However it annoys me extremely that this aspect of the high EMS ending isn't expanded upon/clarified like the fates of Shep are in the other endings.

[ddraigcoch123]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yes. A game with clear intentions in the way it was edited together.

You don't have to look at it like a film. You can look at it like a play, Chekov's gun comes into play here.

Or a book.

Hudson tried to close the gap between film and games. He failed for the most part.

I was told that they wanted an ending like this explicitly by a producer. We talked for twenty minutes.

So yeah.

But in creating the ending of ME3 as a whole and in not creating a true finale for the Shepard torso lives ending they have damaged, no destroyed exactly what they and many others claim to be adhering to-artistic integrity.  The art and the integrity were in the manner, setting, tone of the story.  I couldn't care less about what's in other stories-this is not them.  This is ME3 which has a 3 in the name for a reason.  In ME stories, you conclude the conflict through the will and determination of the key players.  And you show the full conclusion of the hero's story within that bigger story.  In ME1, Shepard is thought to be dead and rises from the rubble.  In ME2 the mission is a suicide mission (echoes from all that is said about it pre-mission can be heard in ME3).  Everyone thinks there is no return from it and even victory is feared to be uncertain.  But if you try hard, do well, do enough, you win and save everyone.  This is the furtherance of a rule created with ME1.  The hero returns and the hero can save all, if the hero does not give up.  And they all come home.

ME3 abandons that and then goes into it's impossible, really it is impossible mode.  And it devolves from there.  I don't know what movies they've been watching, but darned few are successful in appeal as mass media if the ending does not fit the whole story and if the hero dies or is left for dead for no good reason.  There may be some with critical acclaim but they are not very likely to have a 3 in the name.  ME was a series with that mass appeal-again it wasn't a David Lynch movie, but it turned into one at the end.  Bioware abandoned their lore and the "world" in which they created ME.  And in the end, they did it one better by abandoning the hero-that totally goes contrary to what they've done all along.  This wasn't a game about head canoning-it was a game that showed stories through to their conclusions and into epilogues. In ME, you bring the hero (Shepard) home.

well said 3D, as always
you put forward the arguments much more clearly and eloquently than I can myself…
and I don’t see any response from BW on twitter or anywhere else that addresses
the questions raised… and they apparently have a team of writers…

[Tonymac]

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It doesn't make it acceptable at all. I'm finding that having played through the entire series through the EC just to give the thing a fair chance just opened up the same old sores again that were there the first time I played the game I am finished with ME. ME1 I would give an 8.9 to. ME2 a 9.0 because of the improved combat -- it would have scored higher if it had a plot, but it was okay if one looked at it as mini-episodes with no overarching plot. In comparison ME3 gets a whopping 6.5 for the single player campaign and a 7.5 overall -- yes the multiplayer actually raises the score and you can all facepalm here.

Until they rectify the ending situation, even if they include the fix in the first paid DLC that would work, I don't see any future DLC actually working. The EC high EMS destroy is still way too bleak. The relays and Citadel should have suffered far less damage than they did on the cutscenes, and Shepard should have been shown actually having survived in an obvious manner like actually recovering from injuries in a hospital reading and/or being visited by their LI. Closure. Not the big middle finger.

Don't use the destroy ending to sell synthesis.

Don't use the destroy ending to sell control.

Without this I don't think the franchise can be saved in all honesty. It's over. And I just know DA3 is going to be every bit as dark and dreary so I'll probably not even play it. I'll get my single player kicks from Bethesda from here on. They may not develop character that well, or write great plot, but they don't pretend to either. They're world builders, and you can explore for hundreds of hours. There's the big difference. BioWare pretends to write great plot.

I guess it really is down to opinion because I found the ending for high EMS really moving "If this war has taught us anything, it is that we are at our strongest when we al work together" <--- that made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!. The relays are damaged but they can be repaired (you don't have to understand something fully to be able to fix it). You go from the strong possibility of being completely annihilated - to surviving, there's a 'future' again. Surely that's an enormous thing?

Gtacatalina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

It's also great to know that at least one writer thinks that "beacon of hope" could be Shepard's dying gasp. Great. Yeah, that's exactly what you do with the hero of three games.

When I heard that I facepalmed myself.

Exactly
Shepard is a bloody hero,  I imagined that my paragon fem Shep would
conquer the reapers and live to tell the tale and not end up in a rubble
heap with my loved one and friends all thinking I might be dead! Yeah
Bioware that's a great ending!
For my renagade male Shep I was
expecting him to die in a blaze of glory defeating the reapers and not
to drop himself into some green or red light to die!

Chris
Helper-apparently also believes the "real" kid was needed for players
to know Shepard cared about Earth.  God, please new writers.

Wow seriously, I hadn't heard that!

How is that ending any less heroic the going in a blaze of glory etc? If anything it seems a lot more difficult to do, to make the decision to just lie down and die, it's a quiet accepting kind of thing, there no adrenalin rush, no bullets flying past etc, just knowing that if you die then the rest of the galaxy lives, seems incredibly selfless to me:blink:

The only reason there is still a galaxy left at all is because of Liara.  Its the only reason I saved anyone at all - it was for my team and my friendships.

To have to die alone, twisted, and broken like some sort of refuse......  is just insulting.

[ddraigcoch123]

wright1978 wrote...

ddraigcoch123 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Kate....almost universally people pick Destroy to save Shepard. Yes.....for some including me that and a reunion is more important than anything

yep totally agree.. that was what the game gave us/me.. the opportunity to know and care about the characters and the galaxy we lived in.. all i want is an open door for my imagination (for head cannoning...) i'm finding it hard to lift my shep from the rubble...

I certainly don't pick destroy to save shep. Destroy is the best ending imo and Shep surviving is just a nice bonus. However it annoys me extremely that this aspect of the high EMS ending isn't expanded upon/clarified like the fates of Shep are in the other endings.

yeah for clarity.. for me the destroy ending is the one i chose for my shepards character and the whole drive of the narrative that i chose to follow (agreeing with anderson and hacket) that the only good reaper is a dead reaper... and i accept that my shepard can die in that ending... with not enough EMS or assets... but if i worked for the best chance to get her out alive and thats whats on offer then thats what i want...

[ddraigcoch123]

just a tip for BW... the cliffhanger, could go either way ending works fine in a SERIES but unless they are going to completely do a volte-face then this is the FINAL ME with Shepard as the protagonist... so cliffhanger wont work... and yes i have an imagination and will continue to explore the 'world' through the eyes of fan fiction... but the game... the vid game.. cinematic in its feel... very welcome, loved being in my own movie...loved it... is a game none the less...

for the love of the goddess do we have to send Liara over BW... have you ever been flayed alive by the mind of a powerful heartbroken, grieving Asari????