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[Mazebook]

ld1449 wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

It is good for your headcanon ... you can imagine how his life would have continued.

but Shepards story is done...and that is good in my opinion...let´s explore something new.

explore new characters.

Ah I see - so him surviving - and his LI going out to look for him - is all left up to my imagination.

Don't cha know. You pay X amount of money now for people to tell you to use your immagination. Isn't this fantastic story telling???

Don´t you do that with every story...? ...man...i don´t wanna be anywhere near you when go out of a cinema after you  watched a movie.

[TudorWolf]

I still can't see how they missed the obvious issue where Shepard can live in one of four endings.

People are going to pick that one for that reason alone, damn the consequences. Why bother giving the choice at all?

[MordiMoro]

wright1978 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

The breath scene itself is NOT ambiguous. What happens AFTER is. This scene works for each and every Shepard. What happens after would be different for each and every Shepard. This is a good place to stop telling the story. Shepard's survival is the only difference between middle EMS and high EMS. Both the fact that scene is added and how it is presented gives you new information - Shepard lives.

Breath scene is completely ambigious. Without reading the file name you would not even be sure it is Shep.
No it is not a good place to finish telling the story, just as cutting with the Normandy crashed on a distant jungle planet wasn't the place to leave it. High EMS destroy should have showed Shep getting rescued or had Shep reading the epilogue. Something to show categorically that Shep survived. Currently the high ems destroy epilogue is completely isolated from the Shep lives afterthought breath clip.

Especially if one day they say he's alive, and then at Comicon say otherwise.
I understand that without speculation ME3 would be a closed, finite game.
 
But there are other ways to keep your attention ...

[cyrslash1974]

Pitznik wrote...

wright1978 wrote...


Why did they bother having a scene showing the Normandy lifting off the planet. Apparently because lots of people viewed the original scene as being too ambigious. Similarly a scene of Shep being rescued should have been added because that scene is far too ambigious. Some crew member who is stranded in the back of beyond and has no clue what's going on at earth pausing during plaque placing can only be viewed as confirmation of Shep living if you pull yourself out of the narrative and take it as the narrator making an attempt at a nudge and a wink. Really i'd much prefer an epilogue that actually felt like it acknowledged Shep's survival rather than shoving it at the end like a piece of rubbish.

The breath scene itself is NOT ambiguous. What happens AFTER is. This scene works for each and every Shepard. What happens after would be different for each and every Shepard. This is a good place to stop telling the story. Shepard's survival is the only difference between middle EMS and high EMS. Both the fact that scene is added and how it is presented gives you new information - Shepard lives.

I have the same understanding. High EMS + Destroy = Shepard alive. What will happen then ? A new story begins for him.

However, imo, regarding the "Beacon of hope", I think that BW has to improve their communication. If  players choose destroy, it's not only to definitively destroy the reapers. The fact that Shepard could survive is very important too. We are not ready to say good bye to this character. Not like that. I hope that BW can understand this.

[Pitznik]

wright1978 wrote...

Breath scene is completely ambigious. Without reading the file name you would not even be sure it is Shep.
No it is not a good place to finish telling the story, just as cutting with the Normandy crashed on a distant jungle planet wasn't the place to leave it. High EMS destroy should have showed Shep getting rescued or had Shep reading the epilogue. Something to show categorically that Shep survived. Currently the high ems destroy epilogue is completely isolated from the Shep lives afterthought breath clip.

Who else could it be to make sense? With N7 dog tags? TIM? Generic soldier #3245?

About scene being isolated - how about the subtle difference in placing name on the wall scene?

Believe what you want, I rather believe what is shown to me.

[Spectre-61]

"There is no canon ending"

Please correct me if I'm wrong. If there is no canon ending, a ME3 sequel in pretty much not possible, right?

[cyrslash1974]

MordiMoro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

]Mass Effect without Shepard would be like the DC Universe without Batman. Batman is central to his own corner of the universe. The Mass Effect universe is bigger than Shepard, and has been for some time.

I created my Shepard, I have played in the world of Mass Effect as Shepard.
To play as James Vega I do not care.

This. 5 years of Shepard's adventures (our Shepard, a great part of us) cannot be deleted easily

[v0rt3x22]

TudorWolf wrote...

I still can't see how they missed the obvious issue where Shepard can live in one of four endings.

People are going to pick that one for that reason alone, damn the consequences. Why bother giving the choice at all?

My point exactly.

[Kyle Kabanya]

Mass Effect 4 Salvation. You are a cyborg that thinks they are a clone of Shepard but actually a reaper cyborg.

[Pitznik]

MordiMoro wrote...


Especially if one day they say he's alive, and then at Comicon say otherwise.
I understand that without speculation ME3 would be a closed, finite game.
 
But there are other ways to keep your attention ...

If what it is said at Comicon doesn't match what is in actual game, I'll go with what is in game. But it's not even contradicting - simply what happens after is not shown. We may argue that after the breath scene Shepard spontaneously explodes or stands up and starts dancing Shepard style. It is not shown, so it didn't happen. Noone knows what happens, because this is the end to the story (one of the few). If you want something to happen, headcanon it, be it Shepard's death or Jewish wedding with Liara.

Modifié par Pitznik, 16 juillet 2012 - 12:22 .

[wright1978]

Pitznik wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Breath scene is completely ambigious. Without reading the file name you would not even be sure it is Shep.
No it is not a good place to finish telling the story, just as cutting with the Normandy crashed on a distant jungle planet wasn't the place to leave it. High EMS destroy should have showed Shep getting rescued or had Shep reading the epilogue. Something to show categorically that Shep survived. Currently the high ems destroy epilogue is completely isolated from the Shep lives afterthought breath clip.

Who else could it be to make sense? With N7 dog tags? TIM? Generic soldier #3245?

About scene being isolated - how about the subtle difference in placing name on the wall scene?

Believe what you want, I rather believe what is shown to me.

A subtle difference only evident if you see the medium EMS version & narratively means nothing because the stranded Normandy crew obviously no nothing about Shep's fate.

In my playthroughs i headcanon it that Shep lives and i accept Bioware left some crumbs to hint that, that is his fate. That doesn't mean i can't be disgusted at the fact they put no effort into integrating Shep lives into the epilogue properly and clarifying the breath scene.

[cyrslash1974]

Maybe in ME4, we will see our Shep as new humain concil member on the Citadel (depending of your final choice and EMS at the end of ME3)

[MordiMoro]

Pitznik wrote...

MordiMoro wrote...


Especially if one day they say he's alive, and then at Comicon say otherwise.
I understand that without speculation ME3 would be a closed, finite game.
 
But there are other ways to keep your attention ...

If what it is said at Comicon doesn't match what is in actual game, I'll go with what is in game. But it's not even contradicting - simply what happens after is not shown. We may argue that after the breath scene Shepard spontaneously explodes or stands up and starts dancing Shepard style. It is not shown, so it didn't happen. Noone knows what happens, because this is the end to the story (one of the few). If you want something to happen, headcanon it, be it Shepard's death or Jewish wedding with Liara.

But to me it is well headcanon ... but rather that bioware stopped playing with us, and that their statement was one. They have already made many statements "false", just please.

[Pitznik]

wright1978 wrote...


A subtle difference only evident if you see the medium EMS version & narratively means nothing because the stranded Normandy crew obviously no nothing about Shep's fate.

How does it matter at what condition it is evident or not? It is still there and it is a difference. You can't simply diregard it as pointless, it was put there for a reason. I don't really think that during the "funeral" scene Normandy crew is still stranded, unless they can fabricate the memorial plaque on board, and they somehow knew David Anderson is dead.

[wright1978]

Pitznik wrote...

wright1978 wrote...


A subtle difference only evident if you see the medium EMS version & narratively means nothing because the stranded Normandy crew obviously no nothing about Shep's fate.

How does it matter at what condition it is evident or not? It is still there and it is a difference. You can't simply diregard it as pointless, it was put there for a reason. I don't really think that during the "funeral" scene Normandy crew is still stranded, unless they can fabricate the memorial plaque on board, and they somehow knew David Anderson is dead.

I just think it is very poorly done. EC was to provide clarification and ratehr than clarifyng they are playing games.

Of course they have to be still stranded. They've been thrown out of FTL onto some uninhabitated garden world with the relay network damaged. it will take them quite some time to get back. Think it would be quite simple to fabricate memorial plaques on board and they have been doing so all through the game(adding Mordin's name etc). Your logic makes no sense because if they knew Shep and Anderson's fates why on earth would they create a Shep plaque in the first place. They clearly are out of communication and merely are assuming both died.

[crimzontearz]

Did everyone miss that in the same panel Helper said "yes that could be his last breath"?

it is not clarification, it is a big speculative middle finger

[SpamBot2000]

See, the people who are arguing that it is obvious from the way the scene was shown that Shep lives are assuming we're dealing with normal conventions of storytelling here. But this is Mass Effect 3. Not normal.

[MordiMoro]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

See, the people who are arguing that it is obvious from the way the scene was shown that Shep lives are assuming we're dealing with normal conventions of storytelling here. But this is Mass Effect 3. Not normal.

Tulli Bioware has intervened on the forum saying that in that final Shep lives, the player takes a breath and imagine what may happen next.

At Comicon have said it could be the last breath. 

A  square becomes a circle for interpretation.

Bioware up your mind.

Modifié par MordiMoro, 16 juillet 2012 - 12:58 .

[cyrslash1974]

Communication has to be improved from BW to fans. It's not white one day and black the day after. I love BW, but sometimes, hard to understand them.

[Iakus]

MordiMoro wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

See, the people who are arguing that it is obvious from the way the scene was shown that Shep lives are assuming we're dealing with normal conventions of storytelling here. But this is Mass Effect 3. Not normal.

Tulli Bioware has intervened on the forum saying that in that final Shep lives, the player takes a breath and imagine what may happen next.

At Comicon have said it could be the last breath. 

A  square becomes a circle for interpretation.

Bioware up your mind.

They have made up their minds

The seven other endings that show Shepard definitely dead makes it abundantly clear which way tehy lean with Shepard's fate.

Choice is meaningless.

[ld1449]

maaaze wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

It is good for your headcanon ... you can imagine how his life would have continued.

but Shepards story is done...and that is good in my opinion...let´s explore something new.

explore new characters.

Ah I see - so him surviving - and his LI going out to look for him - is all left up to my imagination.

Don't cha know. You pay X amount of money now for people to tell you to use your immagination. Isn't this fantastic story telling???

Don´t you do that with every story...? ...man...i don´t wanna be anywhere near you when go out of a cinema after you  watched a movie.

I do that with many stories that are good.

Take Gran Torino for instance, I can easilly immagine the events after the movie, but it needs a proper ending, ME simply doesn't have one. Even with the EC its fits as well as a prosthetic limb for a twelve year old on a fully grown adult.

[Pitznik]

wright1978 wrote...
Of course they have to be still stranded. They've been thrown out of FTL onto some uninhabitated garden world with the relay network damaged. it will take them quite some time to get back. Think it would be quite simple to fabricate memorial plaques on board and they have been doing so all through the game(adding Mordin's name etc). Your logic makes no sense because if they knew Shep and Anderson's fates why on earth would they create a Shep plaque in the first place. They clearly are out of communication and merely are assuming both died.

They are not using the Relay to reach rendezvous point (at least it is not shown, all fleet uses FTL) and Sol Relay is the first one damaged. But you're right about funeral taking place on the emergency landing world, since it goes like this in the cutscene:  landing - funeral - taking off. But why they would be out of communication, if the high EMS red light space magic energy isn't destroying the electronics, and rendezvous point was agreed on beforehand, so there are others nearby? My interpretation is that they receive "we found Shepard!" information during the funeral - that's what makes LI change his actions compared to lower EMS, and is reinforced further by breathing scene.

Anyway, if you want your Shepard to die after the breathing scene and interrupted funeral, please be my guest. But that is your headcanon. Headcanon starts after the game ends, but game ends with Shepard being alive, ambiguity starts after that.

[MetioricTest]

I hate the fact they've declared it's Shepard. I really wanted it not to be.

The "he survives" ending is so absolutely morbid and depressing. He's broken and in severe pain, bleeding to death in perpetual agony underneath 2 tons of Rubble that are crushing his inner-organs. Meanwhile nobody knows he is there.

So he dies alone but slowly and in immense suffering..And then eventually his LI (who has hopes that Shepard is alive) will discover the body and realize Shepard is indeed dead and not only dead, he died in a monstrous undignified .

What kind of ****ing ending is that.

[SuperVulcan]

MetioricTest wrote...

I hate the fact they've declared it's Shepard. I really wanted it not to be.

The "he survives" ending is so absolutely morbid and depressing. He's broken and in severe pain, bleeding to death in perpetual agony underneath 2 tons of Rubble that are crushing his inner-organs. Meanwhile nobody knows he is there.

So he dies alone but slowly and in immense suffering..And then eventually his LI (who has hopes that Shepard is alive) will discover the body and realize Shepard is indeed dead and not only dead, he died in a monstrous undignified .

What kind of ****ing ending is that.

It's ART.

[Iakus]

Pitznik wrote...

Anyway, if you want your Shepard to die after the breathing scene and interrupted funeral, please be my guest. But that is your headcanon. Headcanon starts after the game ends, but game ends with Shepard being alive, ambiguity starts after that.

Which means everything past the breath scene is head canon.  Including Shepard living.  And that's exactly the problem with the ending.

We have seven endings where there is no doubt Shepard died.  We have none where there is no doubt Shepard lives.