760 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Pitznik wrote...


That's not important - it's like Shepard surviving in ME1 after the fight with Saren - he just did and that's it. Scene speaks for itself. People survive explosions, survive being stuck under the rubble after earthquakes, survive heavy wounds. Likelyhood is irrelevant.

Do you really not see a difference between the ending of ME1 and the torso scene in ME3?

And even more does happen after Shepard is shown clearly to be alive in ME1-choose Anderson or Udina.  Help me fight the reapers-Shepard you're deluded.  Screw you, I'll go and fight myself. 

That's way more than we got in ME3.


People that we have seen survive being stuck under other things haven't been hit by a reaper beam, haven't fallen from space, haven't been led to believe they might destroy the synthetic parts in their own bodies (you have never explained what that means), and generally aren't almost dead before buildings fall on them.

Shepard has no armor, no medigel, and we have no context as to where Shepard is and what exactly happened-what state Shepard is in.  Why isn't Shepard's face shown?  Did it blow off?  We don't know.  But in ME1, we see Shepard is ok, alive and feisty.

Explain just exactly everything you KNOW for a fact happened to Shepard and the Normandy and how fast help will arrive after Shepard shoots the tube.  No guessing, no imagination, but facts as to what happened. 

Then apply that to the other endings.  What do you know in the other endings that happened to Shepard after choosing. 

someone from Bioware tweeted Shepard landed on one of the Citadel arms after the explosion from Destroy, which is also really stupid for them to do, and if we really was why not just show some one grabbing Sheps arm and pulling him/her up

[AlanC9]

The Twilight God wrote...

Pitznik wrote...
Reorte in this thread pointed out that there are stars "nearby" (1 day of flight for FTL) that have planets, so it could be one of them, terraformed somewhat. Not out of the question.

What planets? Where did he get this info from? Or did he just headcanon these planets that are closer to earth, but overlooked in favor of worlds in distance star clusters like Terra Nova, Benning, Eden Prime, Shanxi who were the first colonies?

Actually, Demeter was the first colony. And Demeter is within secondary relay range of Earth, since it is said to link to Charon rather than Arcturus, which is the local primary.

Where are you getting this from? The planet has no remaining infrastructure. The Reapers have been bombarding it for months.

Actually, they've been trying to  "capture population centers with minimal loss of life, " since they don't want to wreck the harvest. So while some cities are gone, others aren't. Whether there are workable labs left in them is another matter....

Yes, they do. It's not like the relays link all habitable systems. Take Arcturus. It is the only relay the Sol Realy goes to. Arcturus then llinks out to several other relays, none of which go directly to an other species homeworld.

You've got this backward. Prmary relays have a single target. Secondary relays, like Charon, go to any relay within a few hundred lightyears. Arcturus was where the first trans-relay explorers went, and  where the local primary is located, but it isn't the only destination from the Charon relay.

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 juillet 2012 - 07:35 .

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

- Even with FTL, Sword Fleet is out of communication with the Sol system.  No comm buoys means reliance of light speed communication at best. That could mean hours, days, weeks of time lag.  Or more, assuming they're meeting in another system.  Sword has no way of knowing what's going on aboard the Citadel.  Unless you're suggesting Shepard has access to a QEC device in all that rubble..

No, but the resistance probably does.

Earth's resistance now relies on outdated radio towers and a few quantum entanglement communicators whose matched pairs happen to be on other continents or outside the Sol system.

Presumably that's how Hackett and Anderson have been communicating with Shepard the whole time.

[3DandBeyond]

Pitznik wrote...

The Twilight God enlightened me about the Mass Relays in destroy ending. Centuries don't satisfy me at all, and it was my biggest problem with original ending. I thought EC fixed that, but now I can't find any more arguements how is the repair possible in reasonable time. Ok, now I'm sad. Why to build a rich world in three games just to totally screw it in the end... Dark ages indeed. BS.

I don't think the intent was ever to make you sad, but I think the intent always is for people not to just believe what is superficial.  We really ask that things be made better even if it only helps in the future.  It may well be too late here, but they do intend on releasing pre-ending DLC.  If it won't change what we already have then what's the point.

A game with such a lot of play time and with such good stories and with such high hopes just should remain true to what it is and not try to be something else entirely.

ME always ended with the fate of Shepard at least being known-the Shepard dies endings do that.  I choose to believe torso Shepard lives, but Bioware asks us to speculate far too much to get there and we should not have to.  Shepard was the story and Shepard's story doesn't have an ending.

[crimzontearz]

I need to stop coming here. This place makes bitter angry and resentful

[3DandBeyond]

AresKeith wrote...

someone from Bioware tweeted Shepard landed on one of the Citadel arms after the explosion from Destroy, which is also really stupid for them to do, and if we really was why not just show some one grabbing Sheps arm and pulling him/her up

Another great point-exactly when did twitter become a replacement for in game content.  Last I looked twitter is free so why did I have to pay for the game if the story is on twitter?

And on twitter the devs constantly contradict each other which I guess is where all the speculation came from, themselves.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

CuseGirl wrote...

"Give us a beacon of hope". So damn arrogant. Why does there have to be any implication that they "hold the capacity for hope" in this game? Do they not realize by breaking down the player at the very end (after already watching millions die) they ruin the replay ability of their game?

You know just when we thought we were out of the pit of despair, they reached up and dragged us back down. The writers continue to **** with us about this scene, the mods continue to **** with us about this scene, and the BW people at the conventions continue to **** with us about this scene. There is no ****ing hope in this scene.

It is as Mac Walters said in February. "The Galaxy is a wasteland (after the game). This is the end." They wanted to kill of the hero in all endings, but yet couldn't bring themselves to do it because it would completely kill DLC sales, and that's something EA wouldn't stand for. So they offered this beacon of hope, but they keep moving it out of reach.

Do they not realize that breaking down a player at the end after already watching millions die they ruin the sales of their next product: Dragon Age 3?

So in my opinion the time for being reasonable has passed. The time for speculations has passed. They've ****ed with us for too long about this. Is Shepard dead? Or is Shepard alive?

If this scene is really Shepard alive, give us a definitive scene showing Shepard having been rescued and in a ****ing hospital recovering, and to kill two birds with one stone, have the love interest or bondmate visiting, or if no LI or bondmate, have Hackett visiting.

[DrwEddy]

3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

someone from Bioware tweeted Shepard landed on one of the Citadel arms after the explosion from Destroy, which is also really stupid for them to do, and if we really was why not just show some one grabbing Sheps arm and pulling him/her up

Another great point-exactly when did twitter become a replacement for in game content.  Last I looked twitter is free so why did I have to pay for the game if the story is on twitter?

And on twitter the devs constantly contradict each other which I guess is where all the speculation came from, themselves.

And that's why I don't believe in Twitter.

[AlanC9]

The Twilight God wrote...

Impossible to repair? Never said that. That fact that they landed on a garden world tells me they aren't in the local cluster. Problem with the mysterious garden world is that it makes no sense locacl cluster or otherwise. We have humans colonizing Eden Prime, Benning, Terra Nova and even starting the process of terraforming other worlds, but don't touch a garden world in their own cluster?  A world that's supposedly a hop and a skip away via FTL?

But using the relays Eden Prime is just about as close in travel time. And if you've got your choice of colony sites, you want to nail down worlds in the other clusters before filling up the local area. What, you never played a 4x game?

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

someone from Bioware tweeted Shepard landed on one of the Citadel arms after the explosion from Destroy, which is also really stupid for them to do, and if we really was why not just show some one grabbing Sheps arm and pulling him/her up

Another great point-exactly when did twitter become a replacement for in game content.  Last I looked twitter is free so why did I have to pay for the game if the story is on twitter?

And on twitter the devs constantly contradict each other which I guess is where all the speculation came from, themselves.

and telling us headcanon and ending for them makes them look very lazy and can't write games anymore

[AlanC9]

3DandBeyond wrote...
What our discussion bears out is that it is often far easier to head canon bad things when you have little to go on. 

Yeah, I'd say that this seems to be empirically true. The history of ME3 ending interpretations is largely one of people making up headcanon that they themselves don't like, and then raging about it. I don't really undertand the procerss myself, since I don't do that.

[3DandBeyond]

AlanC9 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...
What our discussion bears out is that it is often far easier to head canon bad things when you have little to go on. 

Yeah, I'd say that this seems to be empirically true. The history of ME3 ending interpretations is largely one of people making up headcanon that they themselves don't like, and then raging about it. I don't really undertand the procerss myself, since I don't do that.

No, it's making you head canon because the writers offer nothing much to go on and they themselves cannot agree even what they meant to show.

Mac Walters said the galaxy was supposed to be a wasteland at the end.  Ok this is his original thought on the end.  And that fits with everything they showed for the original endings.  The Arrival and destroyed Mass Relays, Desperate Measures and ruptured Mass Relays.  The Final Hours storyline flow chart-the crucible would create a galactic dark ages.  Normandy crashed and really damaged/stranded on an unknown planet.  Someone might starve if the food source is wrong.  Simply said the galaxy should have been "a wasteland".  I agree with Walters.  But that's a horrible way to end the series.  I didn't have to head canon this-it was in their story and what they wanted us to believe.

Sooooo, fans didn't like this and it wasn't going to be good for DLC.  They started retconning it on twitter-no the explosions weren't THAT big.  It'll be ok, they can fix the relays---oh, they can, this is new.  They weren't destroyed.  Oh, they weren't?  Looked pretty destroyed to me.  Ok, no word to this day on the ruptured relay which should ruin all terrestrial worlds in a system.  And some even now do look ruptured in the EC, but I digress.

Well, they retconned partly the idea that the galaxy would be desolate and all.  And in releasing the EC, they said they had no idea why anyone would have thought the galaxy was "screwed" (my word) in the first place.  Oh, oh really.  Maybe it was because we actually played the damn games?

What we wanted is exactly the converse of what you stated and nice job taking what I said out of context-I know now you aren't trying to be genuine.  We did want something logical and a possibly more positive outcome.

And what I originally said and meant was that it is far easier to head canon the Shepard dies endings (even if we didn't see the flesh fly off of Shepard) than the Shepard lives ending because of the lack of context for anything that happens regarding picking destroy.  We know EDI dies and an explosion hits Shepard.  Beyond that, good luck.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...
What our discussion bears out is that it is often far easier to head canon bad things when you have little to go on. 

Yeah, I'd say that this seems to be empirically true. The history of ME3 ending interpretations is largely one of people making up headcanon that they themselves don't like, and then raging about it. I don't really undertand the procerss myself, since I don't do that.

Shepard buried in rubble and not moving at all save a single breath lends very little foundation for happy interpretations.

In fact, it's happiness is largely only in cmparisson to the endings where Shepard is outright killed on screen.

[crimzontearz]

I never say this enough

HEADCANON IS ONLY ONE STEP REMOVED FROM DELUSION

It's like Peter griffin closing the curtains of his living room to pretend there aren't riots happening outside

[The Spamming Troll]

crimzontearz wrote...

I need to stop coming here. This place makes bitter angry and resentful

we should build a time machine my friend.

go back to a time when we all had hopes and dreams for mass effect.......

<_<

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 19 juillet 2012 - 08:52 .

[crimzontearz]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I need to stop coming here. This place makes bitter angry and resentful

we should build a time machine my friend.

go back to a time when we all had hopes and dreams for mass effect.......

<_<

send a T101 to beat up Casey and Walters before they start ME3 so bioware ends up using Drew and weekes

[3DandBeyond]

crimzontearz wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I need to stop coming here. This place makes bitter angry and resentful

we should build a time machine my friend.

go back to a time when we all had hopes and dreams for mass effect.......

<_<

send a T101 to beat up Casey and Walters before they start ME3 so bioware ends up using Drew and weekes

We would have no "wasteland" then and doesn't that just sum up how you want to end your video games?  Gee, I think I want to play ..........5 again, it ends up as a wasteland.  Yooohooo!   

Wow, Bob, you really did bad in that game and all that after 5 years of your life and hundreds of hours and the creation of 10 characters and romancing everything in sight.  But, it sure looks like a wasteland at the end.  Maybe you need to try it again.  What?  That's the "win" ending?  What happens if you lose?

[Apollo-XL5]

Vox Draco wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Why do people moan about there not being a cannon ending, Shepard is the avatar of the player, There are so many choices to make through out the trilogy that noone's story will be exactly the same and so it being cannon can not happen. That is why there wont be a Mass Effect 4 based after the reapers were defeated.

That shepard is the avatar of the player is...the core-problem is see here...

Shepard=Player=ME-Fan=Left in pile of rubble=WTF?

So, nice way to treat your fans, Bioware...just think about this a little more before the next time you invent an iconic video-game-hero with deep emotional impact on the customers of your "art", you migh t save yourself and everyone else a lot of trouble

No you just want to be spoon fed everything.  Have it all tied up in a pretty little bow.  Where is your imagination?
And the music that plays during the breath scene seems quite uplifting to me so I dont see how it is ambiguous at all, but rather certain that shepard survives to reunite with his loved one.

Modifié par Apollo-XL5, 19 juillet 2012 - 09:16 .

[crimzontearz]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Why do people moan about there not being a cannon ending, Shepard is the avatar of the player, There are so many choices to make through out the trilogy that noone's story will be exactly the same and so it being cannon can not happen. That is why there wont be a Mass Effect 4 based after the reapers were defeated.

That shepard is the avatar of the player is...the core-problem is see here...

Shepard=Player=ME-Fan=Left in pile of rubble=WTF?

So, nice way to treat your fans, Bioware...just think about this a little more before the next time you invent an iconic video-game-hero with deep emotional impact on the customers of your "art", you migh t save yourself and everyone else a lot of trouble

No you just want to be spoon fed everything.  Have it all tied up in a pretty little bow.  Where is your imagination?
And the music that plays during the breath scene seems quite uplifting to me so I dont see how it is ambiguous at all, but rather certain that shepard survives to reunite with his loved one.

I was certain I killed both oghren the warden and Leliana in DAO.....I was wrong wasn't I? Headcanon is only one step removed from delusion

[Iakus]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...
No you just want to be spoon fed everything.  Have it all tied up in a pretty little bow.  Where is your imagination?
And the music that plays during the breath scene seems quite uplifting to me so I dont see how it is ambiguous at all, but rather certain that shepard survives to reunite with his loved one.

Again with the spoon-fed comments.  We need some newer insult books to read from around here.  Or more creative insulters.

What we want is no more spoon-feeding than seeing Shepard dissolve in Synthesis or electrocuted in Control.  We want Bioware to stop jerking us around and show Shepard surviving.  Not "implied to survive"

Modifié par iakus, 19 juillet 2012 - 09:38 .

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

crimzontearz wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Why do people moan about there not being a cannon ending, Shepard is the avatar of the player, There are so many choices to make through out the trilogy that noone's story will be exactly the same and so it being cannon can not happen. That is why there wont be a Mass Effect 4 based after the reapers were defeated.

That shepard is the avatar of the player is...the core-problem is see here...

Shepard=Player=ME-Fan=Left in pile of rubble=WTF?

So, nice way to treat your fans, Bioware...just think about this a little more before the next time you invent an iconic video-game-hero with deep emotional impact on the customers of your "art", you migh t save yourself and everyone else a lot of trouble

No you just want to be spoon fed everything.  Have it all tied up in a pretty little bow.  Where is your imagination?
And the music that plays during the breath scene seems quite uplifting to me so I dont see how it is ambiguous at all, but rather certain that shepard survives to reunite with his loved one.

I was certain I killed both oghren the warden and Leliana in DAO.....I was wrong wasn't I? Headcanon is only one step removed from delusion

I don't think the question is whether you have an imagination or not.  Rather, the question is whether a player who mines the entire galaxy map for assets, makes good decisions, imports a character from well played prior installments and executes in the finale should be rewarded with a visual payoff.  These are video games.  Most game developers think these players do deserve that, if they want dedicated players to be loyal to the franchise.  The mistake made by BioWare in ME3 is that this kind of ending is going to be most offensive to their most loyal customers.  That's why the amount of frustration with the endings is generally proportional to the amount of time the player invested in the trilogy.

One more funny story on this.  Yesterday, I went to a national retail gaming store (which shall remain unnamed) to pre-order my Hitman: Absolution and started talking about the ME3 ending.  The anecdotal evidence is that serious gamers who lined up on launch night to get their ME3 copies overwhelmingly hated the ending, with or without the EC.  They let anyone who asks know about it.  I'm not surprised.  But the amount of discontent from real customers extends well beyond those who do or say something about it on this forum or in other places.

[crimzontearz]

But don't you know? We are dumb for not understanding art

[squee365]

crimzontearz wrote...

But don't you know? We are dumb for not understanding art

No you're dumb for treating it as such and using the "art" argument. Even if you mean it ironically. Stop it. 

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

crimzontearz wrote...

But don't you know? We are dumb for not understanding art

Yes.  I have heard that the official answer to criticism is:  "But....ART."

So, I have a special place for the original disks of ME3 to be placed in honor of its...ARTness.

http://www.museumofbadart.org/

This place was literally made for it.

Modifié par PuppiesOfDeath2, 19 juillet 2012 - 09:53 .

[Dominus]

It means a likelihood of post-ending DLC. Nothing like the taste of post-ME3 narrative ambiguity to throw in some new missions. From the Ashes, a piece of new downloadable content arises...

At this point, I'm a bit nonchalant about DLC. I'll see what the inevitable trailers look like and throw in my 2 cents. Unless it looks mindblowing, I think I'll save my money instead.