760 réponses à ce sujet

[cyrslash1974]

MetioricTest wrote...

I hate the fact they've declared it's Shepard. I really wanted it not to be.

The "he survives" ending is so absolutely morbid and depressing. He's broken and in severe pain, bleeding to death in perpetual agony underneath 2 tons of Rubble that are crushing his inner-organs. Meanwhile nobody knows he is there.

So he dies alone but slowly and in immense suffering..And then eventually his LI (who has hopes that Shepard is alive) will discover the body and realize Shepard is indeed dead and not only dead, he died in a monstrous undignified .

What kind of ****ing ending is that.

I don't want to believe that. Maybe I'm stupid but thanks to EC, I want to hope that my Shep is alive and will continue to kick ****

[Pitznik]

iakus wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Anyway, if you want your Shepard to die after the breathing scene and interrupted funeral, please be my guest. But that is your headcanon. Headcanon starts after the game ends, but game ends with Shepard being alive, ambiguity starts after that.

Which means everything past the breath scene is head canon.  Including Shepard living.  And that's exactly the problem with the ending.

We have seven endings where there is no doubt Shepard died.  We have none where there is no doubt Shepard lives.  

I see it differently. I have no doubt Shepard lives at the ending. He can die after (he will die after, sooner or later), but he didn't yet. The end, story is over. Seven endings with Shepard being dead or having transcended into new being, one with Shepard being alive.

Modifié par Pitznik, 16 juillet 2012 - 01:37 .

[MetioricTest]

cyrslash1974 wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

I hate the fact they've declared it's Shepard. I really wanted it not to be.

The "he survives" ending is so absolutely morbid and depressing. He's broken and in severe pain, bleeding to death in perpetual agony underneath 2 tons of Rubble that are crushing his inner-organs. Meanwhile nobody knows he is there.

So he dies alone but slowly and in immense suffering..And then eventually his LI (who has hopes that Shepard is alive) will discover the body and realize Shepard is indeed dead and not only dead, he died in a monstrous undignified .

What kind of ****ing ending is that.

I don't want to believe that. Maybe I'm stupid but thanks to EC, I want to hope that my Shep is alive and will continue to kick ****

I don't want to believe it either but I'm just going to make up whatever I want to believe, I'll ignore the entire ending at is and just create my own.

[Iakus]

Pitznik wrote...

iakus wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Anyway, if you want your Shepard to die after the breathing scene and interrupted funeral, please be my guest. But that is your headcanon. Headcanon starts after the game ends, but game ends with Shepard being alive, ambiguity starts after that.

Which means everything past the breath scene is head canon.  Including Shepard living.  And that's exactly the problem with the ending.

We have seven endings where there is no doubt Shepard died.  We have none where there is no doubt Shepard lives.  

I see it differently. I have no doubt Shepard lives at the ending. He can die after (he will die after, sooner or later), but he didn't yet. The end, story is over. Seven endings with Shepard being dead or having transcended into new being, one with Shepard being alive.

You have no doubt.  But many others are far less certain.  And it's apparantly meant to be that way, since it was designed to be amibguous.  Shepard may or may not be dying in that scene.  All that's certain is that for that moment, he's alive.  That's not certainty. And I certainly don't find that to be closure.  

Shepard's story couldn't end with him standing up?  Being found by a rescue team?  Waking up in a hospital?  Those are far more valid ending points to me, they state with far more certainty Sheaprd is alive, and leave just as much to the imagination.

[Iakus]

[quote]cyrslash1974 wrote...

What kind of ****ing ending is that. [/quote]

I don't want to believe that. Maybe I'm stupid but thanks to EC, I want to hope that my Shep is alive and will continue to kick ****
[/quote]

I find it's no easier or harder to believe that in EC that it was in the original endings.

Which is to say, I find it virtually impossible.

[TNT1991]

Wanted closure for the Destroy-Breathe scene? Nope! Instead, got "closure" for everything else but the breathe scene.

To me, imho, this comes off as if Bioware isn't ready to commit whether or not this will be Shepard's last story.
Even after the credits they left in that scene with the grandfather and child, asking for another story with Shepard. DLC? Sequel? Both? SPECULATIONS!
So that whole " beacon of hope", more like " beacon of we-don't-know-either".

Modifié par TNT1991, 16 juillet 2012 - 01:54 .

[Ghostano]

Shepard is neither alive or dead Shepard is clearly.........A Zombie!!!!!

[AlexMBrennan]

It is good for your headcanon

No, it's bad for your headcanon. If they don't show Shepard at all, you can imagine whatever you like. If they show Shepard badly injured on an exploding space station (or lying on a beach relaxing, or anything at all), then this constrains your imagination.

Those wanting a happy reunion will already have imagined the Normandy crew being able to make those repairs in a reasonable timeframe. Now, those looking e.g. for a rescue mission or Lost-esque survival horror (sorry, never watched it and can't be bothered to look it up) will be disappointed.

The only thing that could have helped would be retconning the more stupid aspects of the ending, which they did not.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:02 .

[HopHazzard]

wright1978 wrote...

Most people hated Bioware's original completely ambigious endings. They promised to provide clarification and closure. However they were too cheap to clarify the Shep lives ending.

I never really saw the ambiguity in Shepard's survival. S/he's alive. What needs to be clarified?

[Mysten]

Ending of Halo 3: The Master Chief, completely alone as far as he is aware, is stranded in an unknown region of space drifting in an inoperable spacecraft. He enters cryogenic suspension in the hope that one day the rescue beacon will be picked up or the scrap of metal he's riding through the cosmos bumps into something. A post-credits scene teases that the ship does in fact end up drifting towards something - something near-completely ambiguous that begins to power up as he gets near.

Cut to black.

Community reaction: Awesome! Speculation time! Let us use our imaginations!

Ending of Mass Effect 3 (Destroy): Shepard defeats the Reapers, saves the galaxy and is shown to take a single breath afterwards. There's a damn good chance he's alive and there's no one telling you he can't be. His crew (and potentially his romantic interest) survives and repairs the ship and can begin to make their way to reuniting with him.

Cut to black.

Community reaction: What was that? You expect me to do what, exactly? Use my imagination to figure out what he eats for breakfast from now on and what he says to his love interest when they meet up again? This is not storytelling! I need to be explicitly told every single detail of Shepard's life story after this game concludes. You're ripping me off!

Me: What.

Modifié par Mysten, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:06 .

[Memnon]

Ghostano wrote...

Shepard is neither alive or dead Shepard is clearly.........A Zombie!!!!!

Sounds more like he's Schrödinger's cat

[wright1978]

HopHazzard wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Most people hated Bioware's original completely ambigious endings. They promised to provide clarification and closure. However they were too cheap to clarify the Shep lives ending.

I never really saw the ambiguity in Shepard's survival. S/he's alive. What needs to be clarified?

A clip of Shep being rescued/clambering from rubble in the same way the Normandy crash was clarified to show the Normandy taking off again and not being stranded on Gilligan's island forever.

[crimzontearz]

Mysten wrote...

Ending of Halo 3: The Master Chief, completely alone as far as he is aware, is stranded in an unknown region of space drifting in an inoperable spacecraft. He enters cryogenic suspension in the hope that one day the rescue beacon will be picked up or the scrap of metal he's riding through the cosmos bumps into something. A post-credits scene teases that the ship does in fact end up drifting towards something - something near-completely ambiguous that begins to power up as he gets near.

Cut to black.

Community reaction: Awesome! Speculation time! Let us use our imaginations!

Ending of Mass Effect 3 (Destroy): Shepard defeats the Reapers, saves the galaxy and is shown to take a single breath afterwards. There's a damn good chance he's alive and there's no one telling you he can't be. His crew (and potentially his romantic interest) survives and repairs the ship and can begin to make their way to reuniting with him.

Cut to black.

Community reaction: What was that? You expect me to do what, exactly? Use my imagination to figure out what he eats for breakfast from now on and what he says to his love interest when they meet up again? This is not storytelling! I need to be explicitly told every single detail of Shepard's life story after this game concludes. You're ripping me off!

Me: What.

there is a HUGE difference. John is completely unharmed at the end of halo3. There is no doubt hr is alive AND Cortana is with him. Cryosleep will keep him alive and so will Cortana, again no doubt about that. The forward unto dawn is headed toward Requiem....even without Halo 4 THAT screams "he lives on to fight new battles".....and there is the whole luck thing..



 
 
See the difference? If destroy ended like that I would be 100% ok

[Ghostano]

Stornskar wrote...

Ghostano wrote...

Shepard is neither alive or dead Shepard is clearly.........A Zombie!!!!!

Sounds more like he's Schrödinger's cat

 True but zombie Shepard may have or may have not eaten the cat that may be alive or be dead. Shepard not picky after all...zombie

[HopHazzard]

wright1978 wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Most people hated Bioware's original completely ambigious endings. They promised to provide clarification and closure. However they were too cheap to clarify the Shep lives ending.

I never really saw the ambiguity in Shepard's survival. S/he's alive. What needs to be clarified?

A clip of Shep being rescued/clambering from rubble in the same way the Normandy crash was clarified to show the Normandy taking off again and not being stranded on Gilligan's island forever.

And I still don't see why any of that is necessary to clarify that Shepard is alive.

When Return of the Jedi ended (back in 1983, not the new crappy ending), I didn't rage at George Lucas for not telling me what happened to everybody once they were finished partying down with the Ewoks (though I have raged at him for many other things over the years). I imagined it for myself. And when people finally got around to writing books about what happened after Jedi, I found I liked what I came up with much better. All I need to know is that Shepard is alive and the Normandy isn't stranded. I can take the rest from there. There's nothing BioWare could come up with that would be better than what I imagine for myself.

[crimzontearz]

Uh...did you miss the freaking comicon panel Hop?

[HopHazzard]

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...did you miss the freaking comicon panel Hop?

Well, since I wasn't at comicon...

[Bfler]

HopHazzard wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...did you miss the freaking comicon panel Hop?

Well, since I wasn't at comicon...

We don't know that he is alive, because one of the developers at the panel said, that it could be his last breath.

Modifié par Bfler, 16 juillet 2012 - 03:19 .

[iSousek]

I agree with OP.

Before this statement we had a poor example of 'what was author trying to say?'
Now, it seems as if the author himself doesn't know what he wanted to say.

P.S. you can't compare it with ending of SW, because the context of the situation is not as nearly as same

[crimzontearz]

HopHazzard wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...did you miss the freaking comicon panel Hop?

Well, since I wasn't at comicon...

it's online too

Helper went out of his way to say that could be very well Shepard's last breath and it was meant to be ambiguous so.....yeah not as self evident as you think is it?

[Kel Riever]

I think the entire interview just shows the kind of ivory tower mentality that these writers have with the seires. It wasn't 100% bad. Just the last 5%, which is the 5% that kills the other 95% of your writing if you blow it.

[Legbiter]

Mysten wrote...

Ending of Halo 3: The Master Chief, completely alone as far as he is aware, is stranded in an unknown region of space drifting in an inoperable spacecraft. He enters cryogenic suspension in the hope that one day the rescue beacon will be picked up or the scrap of metal he's riding through the cosmos bumps into something. A post-credits scene teases that the ship does in fact end up drifting towards something - something near-completely ambiguous that begins to power up as he gets near.

Cut to black.

Community reaction: Awesome! Speculation time! Let us use our imaginations!

Ending of Mass Effect 3 (Destroy): Shepard defeats the Reapers, saves the galaxy and is shown to take a single breath afterwards. There's a damn good chance he's alive and there's no one telling you he can't be. His crew (and potentially his romantic interest) survives and repairs the ship and can begin to make their way to reuniting with him.

Cut to black.

Community reaction: What was that? You expect me to do what, exactly? Use my imagination to figure out what he eats for breakfast from now on and what he says to his love interest when they meet up again? This is not storytelling! I need to be explicitly told every single detail of Shepard's life story after this game concludes. You're ripping me off!

Me: What.

Pretty much this. Although this isn't the first time some fans have become deranged over the ending in a Bioware game. Morrigan fans from DA 1 threw a huge tiff as well back in the day.

[HopHazzard]

Bfler wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...did you miss the freaking comicon panel Hop?

Well, since I wasn't at comicon...

We don't even know that he is alive, because one of the developers at the panel said, that it could be his last breath.

So what? It could be his last breath. It could not be. I choose to believe it's not. Nothing anyone has said contradicts that. Not that I care about authorial intent anyway.

[Legbiter]

MetioricTest wrote...

The "he survives" ending is so absolutely morbid and depressing. He's broken and in severe pain, bleeding to death in perpetual agony underneath 2 tons of Rubble that are crushing his inner-organs. Meanwhile nobody knows he is there.

So he dies alone but slowly and in immense suffering..And then eventually his LI (who has hopes that Shepard is alive) will discover the body and realize Shepard is indeed dead and not only dead, he died in a monstrous undignified .

What kind of ****ing ending is that.

That's your kind of ****ing ending.

My ending is quite a bit more hopeful and with 3000% less maudling emo porn.

[HopHazzard]

crimzontearz wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...did you miss the freaking comicon panel Hop?

Well, since I wasn't at comicon...

it's online too

Helper went out of his way to say that could be very well Shepard's last breath and it was meant to be ambiguous so.....yeah not as self evident as you think is it?

It's as evident as I want it to be. That's the point of making it ambiguous in the first place.