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BioWare on "Shepard survives" scene: "We wanted to give them a little beacon of hope."


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#726
The Twilight God

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AlanC9 wrote...

This isn't a response to the part of my post you quoted. A fleet in Arcturus can reach Sol whether there are any other relays besides Arcturus in Charon's range or not. Even if the Charon Relay didn't exist at all you'd still want to defend Sol in the Arcturus system, because that's the only choke point you've got.  Is this reply maybe to something else?


Didn't you say that Charon went to other locations besides Arcturus?

To simply get within FTL range you have to go to Arcturus. No fleet can approach Earth without going to Arcturus hence it is a system of high strteguc importance. I get that you're saying this doesn't preclude charon going to other secondaries. I get that. I simply disagree that there are any other secondaries Charon goes to beside Arcturus.

AlanC9 wrote...
Anyway, I'm not quite sure what you're arguing here. Worlds in the local cluster shoudln't have relays becuase they're too close to Sol to need one? Then why would there be any secondary relays at all?

Which says absolutely  nothing about whether other garden worlds have secondary relays too. You're not proposing that all secondary relays are there to link potential homeworlds to the primaries, are you?


Not necessarily. It's a big universe and it needs waypoints.If it was all primary relays it would defeat the prupose. Primary are 1-way trips like going from Austin, Texas to Missoula, Montana. Secondaries are small jumps like going from Dallas to Houston. However, the Charon Relay, I believe, is there to coral humans to Arcturus. I don't think it's coincidence that every homeworld system has a mass relay.

#727
ThaDPG

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AresKeith wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

Hurbster wrote...

Putting a cliffhanger ending in the last game in a series is beyond stupid.


I would agree, which is why I'm pretty sure Bioware is not ending the ME series, just Shepard's story arc.  I just can't accept that the writers seriously thought what we got was closure enough, after all the great games they've brought us in the past.


yea, but thats still a stupid and lazy way to end Shepards ME story


Totally agree, I wasnt defending it at all lol

#728
ThaDPG

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Kyle Kabanya wrote...

I laughed when I seen bioware gave us great games in the past.


So you never played any of the Baldur's Gate games?  DA:O, or DA:O Awakening? ME 1 and 2?

#729
DistantUtopia

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Personally I would have preferred they give us a Bacon of hope. Much for filling and satisfying than the current destroy ending.

#730
Iakus

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ThaDPG wrote...

Kyle Kabanya wrote...

I laughed when I seen bioware gave us great games in the past.


So you never played any of the Baldur's Gate games?  DA:O, or DA:O Awakening? ME 1 and 2?


Ah, yes, Baldur's Gate 2

Where you can destroy the Baahlspawn essence without dying, killing a companion, or or genociding the elves.

#731
ThaDPG

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iakus wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

Kyle Kabanya wrote...

I laughed when I seen bioware gave us great games in the past.


So you never played any of the Baldur's Gate games?  DA:O, or DA:O Awakening? ME 1 and 2?


Ah, yes, Baldur's Gate 2

Where you can destroy the Baahlspawn essence without dying, killing a companion, or or genociding the elves.


That game had both dark and happy endings, with closure all around.  It could please anyone for the most part.  They definitly didn't do this with ME 3 Image IPB

#732
AresKeith

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ThaDPG wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

Hurbster wrote...

Putting a cliffhanger ending in the last game in a series is beyond stupid.


I would agree, which is why I'm pretty sure Bioware is not ending the ME series, just Shepard's story arc.  I just can't accept that the writers seriously thought what we got was closure enough, after all the great games they've brought us in the past.


yea, but thats still a stupid and lazy way to end Shepards ME story


Totally agree, I wasnt defending it at all lol


I know you wasn't, because I have a feeling Bioware is gonna make more ME anyway

#733
v0rt3x22

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Hurbster wrote...

Putting a cliffhanger ending in the last game in a series is beyond stupid.


I don't agree. It was done in God of War 3 as well - and I had no problem with it.

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 20 juillet 2012 - 09:57 .


#734
3DandBeyond

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v0rt3x22 wrote...

Hurbster wrote...

Putting a cliffhanger ending in the last game in a series is beyond stupid.


I don't agree. It was done in God of War 3 as well - and I had no problem with it.

You cannot compare God of War 3 to ME3. Want to know why?  It's GoW, not ME.  GoW had a lot of cliffhangers and it was a story but not on a par with ME, not to the extent.  It wasn't about any choice, you did not become or create the hero.  GoW had its own rules and world that it lived in and ME has its.

ME has exactly one ending for all the stories within it that is a cliffhanger-the torso ending.  The krogans get more than one slide showing their epilogue.  A living Shepard gets zero.

#735
ThaDPG

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3DandBeyond wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Hurbster wrote...

Putting a cliffhanger ending in the last game in a series is beyond stupid.


I don't agree. It was done in God of War 3 as well - and I had no problem with it.

You cannot compare God of War 3 to ME3. Want to know why?  It's GoW, not ME.  GoW had a lot of cliffhangers and it was a story but not on a par with ME, not to the extent.  It wasn't about any choice, you did not become or create the hero.  GoW had its own rules and world that it lived in and ME has its.

ME has exactly one ending for all the stories within it that is a cliffhanger-the torso ending.  The krogans get more than one slide showing their epilogue.  A living Shepard gets zero.


I agree, the cliffhanger storytelling technique might work well for GoW, but not so much ME.  Just 2 completely different stories and experiences.

#736
Iakus

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ThaDPG wrote...

I agree, the cliffhanger storytelling technique might work well for GoW, but not so much ME.  Just 2 completely different stories and experiences.


For one thing, Mass EFfect lets you make chocies that should alter how the game unfolds.  If you get to a point where all possible options lead to death, either you or the developers done goofed

#737
Thore2k10

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iakus wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

I agree, the cliffhanger storytelling technique might work well for GoW, but not so much ME.  Just 2 completely different stories and experiences.


For one thing, Mass EFfect lets you make chocies that should alter how the game unfolds.  If you get to a point where all possible options lead to death, either you or the developers done goofed


and you want to see how everything youve done plays out. youve got this 100+h of story and choicemaking! you want to see how every choice you made plays out. it shouldnt be just right or wrong, but something else than an abstract number (ems) which is nowhere to be seen except in the war room of the normandy would be nice!

#738
Helltech

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I don't know if my game glitched... but am I the only person who did the Destroy Ending and the Geth lived? I don't recall my EMS, It was in the 6K I think, and I was playing on Insanity. I just beat the game a week ago and never watched/read any of the endings before I played (didn't want to spoil it), so I most definitely saw that slide of the Geth and Quarians helping each other (or else I never would have even known about it). I talked with some people about it and they say my ending had to glitch… just throwing this out there.

Anyway I see people arguing back and forth about not being able to get back to Shepard or any planets on time. I just want to say that I do agree with this logic within the game's lore, however... How did Wrex make it back to the Krogan DMZ in time to hold his infant child? Either that’s a loophole or FTL travel is faster than we thought/the relays were fixed quicker than most believe. I guess that Krogan’s could take a much longer time to give birth. I just found that intriguing. From what I understand FTL travel should be roughly 15 light years per 24 hours of course that is just the Wiki talking. I would like to note unless my math is really wrong it would only take 18 and a half Earth years to travel the diameter of the Milky Way, yes a long time but (if Shepard lived) definitely able to have a reunion with his crew. There is the food/fuel problem however if they can travel that far it shouldn’t be hard for an educated (and the Normandy crew are) crew to find fuels or food on the trip.

EDIT - I forgot how long Krogans live, that newborn could be very old by human stanards, d'oh!

Something else that bothers me is everyone saying oh just headcanon your Shepard. Well that would be fine except for a few things. If that was the case the game should have ended with Shepard and Anderson looking at Earth, which would have been a much better ending to headcanon from. I personally wish the game would have ended here, forget the “promised multiple different endings”, because they are all basically the same anyway. Another problem is I would like to headcanon Shepard living, however I just don’t see it, not at all. He is in vacuum space right? Not to mention the fact he is being crushed under rubble and bleeding out fast. Don’t give me that “medigel is magical” bull either. We already know that applying medigel right away wasn’t enough to save that one guy’s leg and that still doesn’t explain being buried under rubble or being space without a suit.

This doesn’t have to do with the “Shepard Lives” ending, but I don’t understand the Starchild at all. I know broken record, beating a dead horse, but I don’t understand WHY he is seeing that child anyway, are the Reaper’s telepathic? Also; paragon, renegade, paragade, EMS score; none of it really matter in the end and that peeves me. I spent well over 200 dollars and well over 200 hours on this trilogy, if I would have known I could have just busted through all the game not caring and got the same ending… just a little upsetting to me.

Anyway I’m not trying to be pessimistic and I’d love for someone to prove me wrong on some of my points, I know a lot less about the ME universe than most people here. I’m just explaining what I took away from it (not having researched anything or knowing the endings ahead of time, just playing the game and seeing what happened).

Modifié par Helltech, 21 juillet 2012 - 06:21 .


#739
AresKeith

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Helltech wrote...

I don't know if my game glitched... but am I the only person who did the Destroy Ending and the Geth lived? I don't recall my EMS, It was in the 6K I think, and I was playing on Insanity. I just beat the game a week ago and never watched/read any of the endings before I played (didn't want to spoil it), so I most definitely saw that slide of the Geth and Quarians helping each other (or else I never would have even known about it). I talked with some people about it and they say my ending had to glitch… just throwing this out there.

Anyway I see people arguing back and forth about not being able to get back to Shepard or any planets on time. I just want to say that I do agree with this logic within the game's lore, however... How did Wrex make it back to the Krogan DMZ in time to hold his infant child? Either that’s a loophole or FTL travel is faster than we thought/the relays were fixed quicker than most believe. I guess that Krogan’s could take a much longer time to give birth. I just found that intriguing. From what I understand FTL travel should be roughly 15 light years per 24 hours of course that is just the Wiki talking. I would like to note unless my math is really wrong it would only take 18 and a half Earth years to travel the diameter of the Milky Way, yes a long time but (if Shepard lived) definitely able to have a reunion with his crew. There is the food/fuel problem however if they can travel that far it shouldn’t be hard for an educated (and the Normandy crew are) crew to find fuels or food on the trip.

Something else that bothers me is everyone saying oh just headcanon your Shepard. Well that would be fine except for a few things. If that was the case the game should have ended with Shepard and Anderson looking at Earth, which would have been a much better ending to headcanon from. I personally wish the game would have ended here, forget the “promised multiple different endings”, because they are all basically the same anyway. Another problem is I would like to headcanon Shepard living, however I just don’t see it, not at all. He is in vacuum space right? Not to mention the fact he is being crushed under rubble and bleeding out fast. Don’t give me that “medigel is magical” bull either. We already know that applying medigel right away wasn’t enough to save that one guy’s leg and that still doesn’t explain being buried under rubble or being space without a suit.

This doesn’t have to do with the “Shepard Lives” ending, but I don’t understand the Starchild at all. I know broken record, beating a dead horse, but I don’t understand WHY he is seeing that child anyway, are the Reaper’s telepathic? Also; paragon, renegade, paragade, EMS score; none of it really matter in the end and that peeves me. I spent well over 200 dollars and well over 200 hours on this trilogy, if I would have known I could have just busted through all the game not caring and got the same ending… just a little upsetting to me.

Anyway I’m not trying to be pessimistic and I’d love for someone to prove me wrong on some of my points, I know a lot less about the ME universe than most people here. I’m just explaining what I took away from it (not having researched anything or knowing the endings ahead of time, just playing the game and seeing what happened).


you just got the greatest glitch ever, jealous Image IPB

#740
ld1449

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Can anyone just mod the game on the PC to cut straight to destroy cinematics when Shepard and Anderson are sitting down?

#741
3DandBeyond

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Helltech wrote...

I don't know if my game glitched... but am I the only person who did the Destroy Ending and the Geth lived? I don't recall my EMS, It was in the 6K I think, and I was playing on Insanity. I just beat the game a week ago and never watched/read any of the endings before I played (didn't want to spoil it), so I most definitely saw that slide of the Geth and Quarians helping each other (or else I never would have even known about it). I talked with some people about it and they say my ending had to glitch… just throwing this out there.

Anyway I see people arguing back and forth about not being able to get back to Shepard or any planets on time. I just want to say that I do agree with this logic within the game's lore, however... How did Wrex make it back to the Krogan DMZ in time to hold his infant child? Either that’s a loophole or FTL travel is faster than we thought/the relays were fixed quicker than most believe. I guess that Krogan’s could take a much longer time to give birth. I just found that intriguing. From what I understand FTL travel should be roughly 15 light years per 24 hours of course that is just the Wiki talking. I would like to note unless my math is really wrong it would only take 18 and a half Earth years to travel the diameter of the Milky Way, yes a long time but (if Shepard lived) definitely able to have a reunion with his crew. There is the food/fuel problem however if they can travel that far it shouldn’t be hard for an educated (and the Normandy crew are) crew to find fuels or food on the trip.

Something else that bothers me is everyone saying oh just headcanon your Shepard. Well that would be fine except for a few things. If that was the case the game should have ended with Shepard and Anderson looking at Earth, which would have been a much better ending to headcanon from. I personally wish the game would have ended here, forget the “promised multiple different endings”, because they are all basically the same anyway. Another problem is I would like to headcanon Shepard living, however I just don’t see it, not at all. He is in vacuum space right? Not to mention the fact he is being crushed under rubble and bleeding out fast. Don’t give me that “medigel is magical” bull either. We already know that applying medigel right away wasn’t enough to save that one guy’s leg and that still doesn’t explain being buried under rubble or being space without a suit.

This doesn’t have to do with the “Shepard Lives” ending, but I don’t understand the Starchild at all. I know broken record, beating a dead horse, but I don’t understand WHY he is seeing that child anyway, are the Reaper’s telepathic? Also; paragon, renegade, paragade, EMS score; none of it really matter in the end and that peeves me. I spent well over 200 dollars and well over 200 hours on this trilogy, if I would have known I could have just busted through all the game not caring and got the same ending… just a little upsetting to me.

Anyway I’m not trying to be pessimistic and I’d love for someone to prove me wrong on some of my points, I know a lot less about the ME universe than most people here. I’m just explaining what I took away from it (not having researched anything or knowing the endings ahead of time, just playing the game and seeing what happened).


Hmmmm sounds like a glitch in your favor.

The whole destroy discussion/explanation by the kid is nonsense.  It's contradictory and ambiguous.  There's no context as to where Shepard is, how Shepard got there, and Shepard's condition (is Shepard merely a torso).  In fact, BW couldn't agree on whether Shepard was alive or dead and now they state it could go either way.  That's just wonderful for a game that shows the fate of everyone else ALWAYS in 3 games.

The slide show (ugh).  You need to consult twitter and panel discussions BW has at comic cons and the like, because no good game dev should ever actually put content in their game right?  And they should use twitter and comic cons to explain the game rather than a website for registered owners of the game, right?  To clarify, at the SEDCC, it was explained that the slides could show 200 to 300 years in the future.  I'd have to actually look at them all again to judge if they'd work chronologically (Krogan babies, Jacob, Zaeed, and so on).

EMS and war assets are basically meaningless and aren't based on any logical value system.  You can even just do the bare minimum in the game in SP to advance the plot and then play multiplayer and you won't get the worst ending/Low EMS ones.  I just watched the renegade control ending and other than a couple slides that were different and one additional supposedly dead character who also shows up as alive in a slide, I don't see too much difference from a paragon ending.  I have high EMS and what my paragon Shepard reaper god says is very close to what a renegade says.

I think that's the only real difference paragon/renegade-a little bit different speech, some different slides, but no real critical difference.  And as long as you get to a certain EMS (3100), you get all endings in all their vast varieties. :innocent:

#742
sH0tgUn jUliA

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7650 EMS. That's right 7650 EMS. "huhhh!" for about 1/4 second. There's your ending. Meanwhile Zaeed is relaxing by a pool -- the guy who insisted on letting the refinery workers die and maybe you saved them. This is your ending.

#743
Helltech

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What I don't get is if the Reapers could have (and had to have right?) been able to read Shepard's mind shouldn't they have been able to counter act everything Shepard had done up to that point anyway? Maybe I should just stop trying to think about it? Not like my Shepard ever would have cared about that child in the first place anyway. I didn't like any of the endings I admit, but I could have lived with all of them if not for the Starchild.

Modifié par Helltech, 21 juillet 2012 - 07:07 .


#744
AlanC9

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[quote]The Twilight God wrote...

[quote]AlanC9 wrote...

This isn't a response to the part of my post you quoted. A fleet in Arcturus can reach Sol whether there are any other relays besides Arcturus in Charon's range or not. Even if the Charon Relay didn't exist at all you'd still want to defend Sol in the Arcturus system, because that's the only choke point you've got.  Is this reply maybe to something else?[/quote]

Didn't you say that Charon went to other locations besides Arcturus?

To simply get within FTL range you have to go to Arcturus. No fleet can approach Earth without going to Arcturus hence it is a system of high strteguc importance. I get that you're saying this doesn't preclude charon going to other secondaries. I get that. I simply disagree that there are any other secondaries Charon goes to beside Arcturus.[/quote]

Umm... yeah. So you're actually in complete agreement with the material you quoted from me:

[quote]
Right. But the reason holding Arcturus keeps enemies from getting to Sol is because that's where the primaries are, not because of a relay that can get you to Sol from Arcturus. If an enemy fleet can get through Arcturus they can reach Sol via normal FTL in three days. They're better off doing it that way since trans-relay assaults are difficult. Which means that "only route" means the only route from anyplace that isn't already Alliance-controlled. [/quote]

That's what confused me.

[quote]AlanC9 wrote...
Anyway, I'm not quite sure what you're arguing here. Worlds in the local cluster shoudln't have relays becuase they're too close to Sol to need one? Then why would there be any secondary relays at all?

Which says absolutely  nothing about whether other garden worlds have secondary relays too. You're not proposing that all secondary relays are there to link potential homeworlds to the primaries, are you?
[/quote]

Not necessarily. It's a big universe and it needs waypoints.If it was all primary relays it would defeat the prupose. Primary are 1-way trips like going from Austin, Texas to Missoula, Montana. Secondaries are small jumps like going from Dallas to Houston. However, the Charon Relay, I believe, is there to coral humans to Arcturus. I don't think it's coincidence that every homeworld system has a mass relay.
[/quote]

And you're just assuming that there are no such waypoints within range of Charon. OK.

#745
3DandBeyond

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Helltech wrote...

What I don't get is if the Reapers could have (and had to have right?) been able to read Shepard's mind shouldn't they have been able to counter act everything Shepard had done up to that point anyway? Maybe I should just stop trying to think about it? Not like my Shepard ever would have cared about that child in the first place anyway. I didn't like any of the endings I admit, but I could have lived with all of them if not for the Starchild.


It would be a more interesting and one-sided debate if the kid had been harbinger.  No one would think he's telling the truth.  No one would want to make any of his choices.  The first thing everyone would have done was try to shoot him.

I didn't like the real kid, don't like his see through version and yes, what you say is a main problem.  The star kid can read Shepard's mind and pull out one more minor point, but cannot pull out any higher recurring huge concepts like the geth becoming Shepard's "friends" or EDI having value, conflict being solved.

#746
JPN17

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Bioware disclaimer: cipher not included

#747
Helltech

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Helltech wrote...

What I don't get is if the Reapers could have (and had to have right?) been able to read Shepard's mind shouldn't they have been able to counter act everything Shepard had done up to that point anyway? Maybe I should just stop trying to think about it? Not like my Shepard ever would have cared about that child in the first place anyway. I didn't like any of the endings I admit, but I could have lived with all of them if not for the Starchild.


It would be a more interesting and one-sided debate if the kid had been harbinger.  No one would think he's telling the truth.  No one would want to make any of his choices.  The first thing everyone would have done was try to shoot him.

I didn't like the real kid, don't like his see through version and yes, what you say is a main problem.  The star kid can read Shepard's mind and pull out one more minor point, but cannot pull out any higher recurring huge concepts like the geth becoming Shepard's "friends" or EDI having value, conflict being solved.



To me it would just make more sense if the Starchild took on the form of a generic human, that I could believe, but that specific kid, just blows my mind how that was considered a good idea. Not to mention I couldn't take any of that discussion seriously because of it. Also being the child from Shepard's dreams just made it more deceptive, but that's all opinion and perspective I suppose. I understand the avatar needed to be relatable or no one would trust him, just could have been done with so much more class and have reasoning behind it, at least in my opinion.

#748
3DandBeyond

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Helltech wrote...

To me it would just make more sense if the Starchild took on the form of a generic human, that I could believe, but that specific kid, just blows my mind how that was considered a good idea. Not to mention I couldn't take any of that discussion seriously because of it. Also being the child from Shepard's dreams just made it more deceptive, but that's all opinion and perspective I suppose. I understand the avatar needed to be relatable or no one would trust him, just could have been done with so much more class and have reasoning behind it, at least in my opinion.


As I see it if indeed the "kid" wanted Shepard to choose Synthesis then why not have him "reveal" his true nature if Shepard starts to go for something else.  More than just a "so be it" as in refuse.  The kid doesn't seem to have a problem with Shepard doing anything but refuse.  So, I don't think he has a preference-all of them achieve his own purpose other than refuse.

#749
Iakus

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JPN17 wrote...

Bioware disclaimer: cipher not included


Mass Effect 3 disclaimer:  Past performances not indicitive of future results.

#750
ThaDPG

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Thore2k10 wrote...

iakus wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

I agree, the cliffhanger storytelling technique might work well for GoW, but not so much ME.  Just 2 completely different stories and experiences.


For one thing, Mass EFfect lets you make chocies that should alter how the game unfolds.  If you get to a point where all possible options lead to death, either you or the developers done goofed


and you want to see how everything youve done plays out. youve got this 100+h of story and choicemaking! you want to see how every choice you made plays out. it shouldnt be just right or wrong, but something else than an abstract number (ems) which is nowhere to be seen except in the war room of the normandy would be nice!


This.  If we have to keep the ishy endings we currently have, at least show us our war assets in action.  I was actually looking forward to that until I figured out it wasn't going to happen