760 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

HopHazzard wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

A clip of Shep being rescued/clambering from rubble in the same way the Normandy crash was clarified to show the Normandy taking off again and not being stranded on Gilligan's island forever.

And I still don't see why any of that is necessary to clarify that Shepard is alive.

When Return of the Jedi ended (back in 1983, not the new crappy ending), I didn't rage at George Lucas for not telling me what happened to everybody once they were finished partying down with the Ewoks (though I have raged at him for many other things over the years). I imagined it for myself. And when people finally got around to writing books about what happened after Jedi, I found I liked what I came up with much better. All I need to know is that Shepard is alive and the Normandy isn't stranded. I can take the rest from there. There's nothing BioWare could come up with that would be better than what I imagine for myself.

I'm not arguing for finding out every detail fo the future. My view is that leaving the protaganist under a heap of rubble is not acceptable when you are creating an extended cut that's supposed to add clarification and add an epilogue. They shoved the breath scene right at the end, not bothering to expand upon it or integrate it properly into the epilogues. The high EMS destroy epilogue is just awfully constrcuted for this reason. It's like trying to build an epilogue for the control ending without mentioning Shep 's fate. Idiotic and cheap.

[Pitznik]

crimzontearz wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I am glad you are happy but do not come to me and tell me you KNOW he is alive, you do not, you choose to headcanon it that way and headcanon, my friend, is only one step removed from delusion

Shepard drawing a breath under the rubble is not headcannon. And that happens to be the end of one of possible endings of ME3. So, yes, he/she is alive at the end, and we KNOW it.

john helpers says otherwise

I don't care, as long as its not in game. If he said Shepard's ship is called La Paloma Blanca, I wouldn't believe either. Also, he didn't said what happened at the end, he said what possibly could happen after the end, which isn't shown in game. Game shows Shepard's alive, that's all that matters.

[Ozida]

Love Sherri wrote...

So, they included the breathing scene to give hope...
Does that mean the other 3 choices contain no hope?

I think it was just more of: "Let's through it there to kill two rabbits with one shot" (meaning to please those who want Shep alive, and yet not to make it absolute so people don't choose Destroy as a canon ending). I honestly do not think there was any plot thinking behind it at all, the whole ending looks like they start throwing bunch of staff together to please everybody and keep the artistic integrity at the same time... it's just a mess, I am sorry.

And the fact that BW is not talking much about the future of franchise at this point means to me that they as much tired of this battle as we are. They dig out a hole for themselves and I just don't see BW  coming out from it all without some scars on their reputation (disregarding if you think EC was great or awful, I do not intend to start another discussion about that).

Modifié par Ozida, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:04 .

[Pitznik]

DistantUtopia wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Shepard drawing a breath under the rubble is not headcannon. And that happens to be the end of one of possible endings of ME3. So, yes, he/she is alive at the end, and we KNOW it.

Nope.  All we know is that he is alive at that point in time.  Can he survive long enough to be rescued?  How critical were his injuries.  What others have been saying is that we don't know if they successfully reunite.  It's not explicity stated but it is implied.  Implied = vague which can lead to confusion, which is why we have to headcannon what happens.

That point in time is the story's end. Do you always imagine that after the end scene in a movie truck hits the protagonist and his LI offscreen? The absolute last information about ME is: Shepard is alive. Why not stick to it?

[tyrvas]

again I shall quote myself...

tyrvas wrote...

hey someone tried killing my hero once but somehow my hero got resurrected...

I picked Destroy with high EMS, Liara, Miranda and the rest survived,
loads of scientists also joined, and most if not all survived so...

...who says my hero can't be resurrected again?

[Heavensrun]

Who is this "him" you speak of? I don't remember Commander Shepard mentioning that she had a brother. ;p

[Elorin Silverblade]

It could be Shepard's last breath (which I don't believe for a minute) or it could be Shepard regaining consciousness, it's pretty much up to you what to believe. I choose to believe Shepard survives and reunites with her crew at some point. I'll probably even make myself a epilogue for my Shepard using a screenshot or something.

Modifié par Elorin Silverblade, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:14 .

[Mcfly616]

Funny, people are still debating this......page 323 of the Official Strategy Guide released on March 6, 2012.....if you get 4000 EMS and save Anderson: "Shepard LIVES"

its written in ink....permanent. I'm guessing they wouldn't put that into millions of copies of an official guide, if they were implying he dies lol....ass backwards logic again. BSN never stops lol...I used to come here for good intelligent discussions.....now I just laugh at the lack of common sense


The only thing left up for interpretation in the breathe scene is : who pulled him from the rubble, how long until he's rescued, and how does he spend the royalties from the war vids?


He dies in the other 3 endings.....they didn't just throw in a scene in the Destroy ending, just to drive the.point home that "yup he's dead".....not to.mention the symbolism of you L.I. not putting your plaque up and then looking to the stars....common sense.....its a rare thing I guess

[XqctaX]

its simple.
after drew left there was noone left around with the talent to accually write a good storyend.

OR

someone (no names but you know who) decided that now when Drew is gone
that person can just dump the mass effect theme/corestory and make up thier own
as time goes.

Or since drew is gone and they didnt know how to write it without him they thought that
letting the players make up the end themself would be forfilling to the fans.

Either way, Drew was the core of bioware, and he left.
and how well has bioware done after that..... (what was the colour of refuse? LOL)

Modifié par XqctaX, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:28 .

[HopHazzard]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Funny, people are still debating this......page 323 of the Official Strategy Guide released on March 6, 2012.....if you get 4000 EMS and save Anderson: "Shepard LIVES"

its written in ink....permanent. I'm guessing they wouldn't put that into millions of copies of an official guide, if they were implying he dies lol....ass backwards logic again. BSN never stops lol...I used to come here for good intelligent discussions.....now I just laugh at the lack of common sense


The only thing left up for interpretation in the breathe scene is : who pulled him from the rubble, how long until he's rescued, and how does he spend the royalties from the war vids?


He dies in the other 3 endings.....they didn't just throw in a scene in the Destroy ending, just to drive the.point home that "yup he's dead".....not to.mention the symbolism of you L.I. not putting your plaque up and then looking to the stars....common sense.....its a rare thing I guess

Not that I don't think Shepard lived, but on page 95 of that same strategy guide it says that Kaidan is a female only romance option. And we all know that's not true.

[Heavensrun]

TudorWolf wrote...

I still can't see how they missed the obvious issue where Shepard can live in one of four endings.

People are going to pick that one for that reason alone, damn the consequences. Why bother giving the choice at all?

I didn't.  I wouldn't.  My shepard cared more about securing the rights of the sentient species of the galaxy than her own survival.  She'd rather die than kill a friend and destroy an entire race of sentient beings.

[3DandBeyond]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

The reason we wanted an EC is that we wanted closure for Shepard's story. I don't care if he's certainly dead or certainly alive, just be definitive.

Although for those who want a canon ending, what about the people who chose something other than destroy? Are you telling them to screw off then?

Yes, exactly closure meant closure not closure for some and FU to others.

I have tended to believe that Destroy was considered by Bioware to be too canon of an ending.  First off, if you believed in the validity of the choices, destroy was always the goal.  And many (they know this) did want an ending where Shepard could achieve the goal and live.  They worried that it would seem way too canon, so they made it unsatisfactory on purpose.  Remove the cost for it (EDI and the Geth) and show one scene where teammates gather around an injured but alive Shepard and Shepard and his/her LI catch each other's eye and smile or a good friend pats Shepard on the back and Shepard grimaces and the friend says, "you'll live" and a lot of people would always choose it.  So no one would pick their incredibly awesome flawed other endings.  Destroy is the canon/non-canon ending.

They've done this before.  There's no canon LI is there?  Or is there?  They recently admitted that some romances are more "core" romances.  And only one romance spans 3 games-all 3.  One character stands out above others as the most loyal, the most caring, the most often just there for Shepard.  Only one character looked for Shepard's body and that led to Shepard's resurrection.  But, they removed her as a paramour in ME2 in order to force people into other romances so that she would not be seen as the canon romance.  No matter what you feel about Liara (and I don't care if people like her or not-that's their right), she is as created by Bioware the canon/non-canon LI.

Many people think Synthesis is the canon choice, but there's no way it is.  First of all it was never a goal, second of all Shepard dies, third it is what the star kid wants and he is an antagonist.  It has nothing to recommend it and if you look at it and weigh the pros and cons of it, it fails.  A huge segment of people will never choose it for a wide variety of reasons, but even people that hate killing EDI and the geth and don't trust the kid will always choose destroy.

I think of course the problem is the insertion of artificial choices at all.  Choices if any should have naturally resulted from decisions you made and things you did before.  They don't so they had to make a canon choice not so canon-that Shepard lives is only one aspect.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:33 .

[Mcfly616]

HopHazzard wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Funny, people are still debating this......page 323 of the Official Strategy Guide released on March 6, 2012.....if you get 4000 EMS and save Anderson: "Shepard LIVES"

its written in ink....permanent. I'm guessing they wouldn't put that into millions of copies of an official guide, if they were implying he dies lol....ass backwards logic again. BSN never stops lol...I used to come here for good intelligent discussions.....now I just laugh at the lack of common sense


The only thing left up for interpretation in the breathe scene is : who pulled him from the rubble, how long until he's rescued, and how does he spend the royalties from the war vids?


He dies in the other 3 endings.....they didn't just throw in a scene in the Destroy ending, just to drive the.point home that "yup he's dead".....not to.mention the symbolism of you L.I. not putting your plaque up and then looking to the stars....common sense.....its a rare thing I guess

Not that I don't think Shepard lived, but on page 95 of that same strategy guide it says that Kaidan is a female only romance option. And we all know that's not true.

throw the guide out the window.....its still common sense....its not hard to figure out....in fact, its so blatantly obvious, that you shouldn't even have to figure anything out.

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

The reason we wanted an EC is that we wanted closure for Shepard's story. I don't care if he's certainly dead or certainly alive, just be definitive.

Although for those who want a canon ending, what about the people who chose something other than destroy? Are you telling them to screw off then?

Yes, exactly closure meant closure not closure for some and FU to others.

I have tended to believe that Destroy was considered by Bioware to be too canon of an ending.  First off, if you believed in the validity of the choices, destroy was always the goal.  And many (they know this) did want an ending where Shepard could achieve the goal and live.  They worried that it would seem way too canon, so they made it unsatisfactory on purpose.  Remove the cost for it (EDI and the Geth) and show one scene where teammates gather around an injured but alive Shepard and Shepard and his/her LI catch each other's eye and smile or a good friend pats Shepard on the back and Shepard grimaces and the friend says, "you'll live" and a lot of people would always choose it.  So no one would pick their incredibly awesome flawed other endings.  Destroy is the canon/non-canon ending.

They've done this before.  There's no canon LI is there?  Or is there?  They recently admitted that some romances are more "core" romances.  And only one romance spans 3 games-all 3.  One character stands out above others as the most loyal, the most caring, the most often just there for Shepard.  Only one character looked for Shepard's body and that led to Shepard's resurrection.  But, they removed her as a paramour in ME2 in order to force people into other romances so that she would not be seen as the canon romance.  No matter what you feel about Liara (and I don't care if people like her or not-that's their right), she is as created by Bioware the canon/non-canon LI.

Many people think Synthesis is the canon choice, but there's no way it is.  First of all it was never a goal, second of all Shepard dies, third it is what the star kid wants and he is an antagonist.  It has nothing to recommend it and if you look at it and weigh the pros and cons of it, it fails.  A huge segment of people will never choose it for a wide variety of reasons, but even people that hate killing EDI and the geth and don't trust the kid will always choose destroy.

I think of course the problem is the insertion of artificial choices at all.  Choices if any should have naturally resulted from decisions you made and things you did before.  They don't so they had to make a canon choice not so canon-that Shepard lives is only one aspect.

you just hit the nail on the head, and your right Bioware did try to force Liara on you (even though I do like Liara) and Synthesis is their love child, even though that its a lie

[RiouHotaru]

The point of the 'Shepard Lives' scene is to allow for headcanon. I'll repeat it so people get it:

Bioware specifically WANTS YOU TO HEADCANON SHEPARD'S FATE

That was the intent of the original endings, to allow for wide varieties of headcanon. After all, it IS supposed to be your Shepard, right?

So decide for yourself how he or she lives or dies, don't ask Bioware to tell you

[The Angry One]

RiouHotaru wrote...

The point of the 'Shepard Lives' scene is to allow for headcanon. I'll repeat it so people get it:

Bioware specifically WANTS YOU TO HEADCANON SHEPARD'S FATE

That was the intent of the original endings, to allow for wide varieties of headcanon. After all, it IS supposed to be your Shepard, right?

So decide for yourself how he or she lives or dies, don't ask Bioware to tell you

How dare we ask writers to do their jobs!

[Yakko77]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

It is good for your headcanon ... you can imagine how his life would have continued.

but Shepards story is done...and that is good in my opinion...let´s explore something new.

explore new characters.

Ah I see - so him surviving - and his LI going out to look for him - is all left up to my imagination.

Pretty much how I interpretted it too.  Strange how Shep dying or the galaxy being wiped out is very clear cut but Shep surviving is all ambiguous for some reason.  Whatevs....

[Sybris]

 Hmm okay, So the high
EMS ending/ Shepard breath scene is up to my imagination? Well then...



My ending goes as follows.



Shepard thinks of Tali, and her awesome photo
shopped picture, and gets a raging erection launching all debris off of his
body. His massive erection travels through space, busting through planets and
suns and homes onto the Normandy poking it right in rear. His beef stick then
acts as a grappling hook, wrapping around the hull of the Normandy pulling the
it to him at the speed of light. Keep in mind this is happening all at the time
of the Plaque scene. Shepard is then rescued and they journey off to find the
floating corpse of Harbinger, so that Shepard may get the closure he deserves, Rightfully
tea bagging Harbinger and screaming "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL" As he
makes sweet love to Harbinger's robotic prostate....



The end 

[RiouHotaru]

The Angry One wrote...

How dare we ask writers to do their jobs!

They did.  They gave you the story up until the credits.  Anything after that is up to you to decide.  Seriously.  Don't demand that Bioware tell you everything, or you're basically begging them to remove your agency.

Why is it that it was so easy pre-EC for people to headcanon starvation and doom, and now that everything is fine, you DON'T want to headcanon a happy ending?

It's like you're looking for a reason to be upset.

[SpamBot2000]

RiouHotaru wrote...

The point of the 'Shepard Lives' scene is to allow for headcanon. I'll repeat it so people get it:

Bioware specifically WANTS YOU TO HEADCANON SHEPARD'S FATE

That was the intent of the original endings, to allow for wide varieties of headcanon. After all, it IS supposed to be your Shepard, right?

So decide for yourself how he or she lives or dies, don't ask Bioware to tell you

Bah. I think we all know what BW want without you telling us. 1. Money 2. To get people speculating (or "headcanoning") about stuff endlessly to distract attention from their writing 3. More money

[AresKeith]

RiouHotaru wrote...

The point of the 'Shepard Lives' scene is to allow for headcanon. I'll repeat it so people get it:

Bioware specifically WANTS YOU TO HEADCANON SHEPARD'S FATE

That was the intent of the original endings, to allow for wide varieties of headcanon. After all, it IS supposed to be your Shepard, right?

So decide for yourself how he or she lives or dies, don't ask Bioware to tell you

last time I checked this was a video game not a book, you Headcanon when your reading a book, playing a video game your expected to see everything you paid or wait till the next game. I've been a gamer for 13 years and not one of the games I played forces you to headcanon your own ending, that is a sad BS move

[RiouHotaru]

It's an RPG folks. Do you want Bioware to take away your adventure and tell you what happens to your character?

Or would you rather it continue to be your story and you can say "Yes, he/she lived." or "Well, I guess he/she died."?

[Baronesa]

RiouHotaru wrote...

The point of the 'Shepard Lives' scene is to allow for headcanon. I'll repeat it so people get it:

Bioware specifically WANTS YOU TO HEADCANON SHEPARD'S FATE

That was the intent of the original endings, to allow for wide varieties of headcanon. After all, it IS supposed to be your Shepard, right?

So decide for yourself how he or she lives or dies, don't ask Bioware to tell you

That stance is a bit hypocritical when someone comes to a conclusion with the evidence presented in game (Like for example next cycle NOT using th crucible) and you counter with "Word of God" argument...

So it looks like you are ok with headcannon as long as it goes YOUR way... otherwise you reach to WoG.

[Applepie_Svk]

RiouHotaru wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

How dare we ask writers to do their jobs!

They did.  They gave you the story up until the credits.  Anything after that is up to you to decide.  Seriously.  Don't demand that Bioware tell you everything, or you're basically begging them to remove your agency.

Why is it that it was so easy pre-EC for people to headcanon starvation and doom, and now that everything is fine, you DON'T want to headcanon a happy ending?

It's like you're looking for a reason to be upset.

So now we are paying for fanfiction ... God bless capitalism:O

[Pitznik]

AresKeith wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

The point of the 'Shepard Lives' scene is to allow for headcanon. I'll repeat it so people get it:

Bioware specifically WANTS YOU TO HEADCANON SHEPARD'S FATE

That was the intent of the original endings, to allow for wide varieties of headcanon. After all, it IS supposed to be your Shepard, right?

So decide for yourself how he or she lives or dies, don't ask Bioware to tell you

last time I checked this was a video game not a book, you Headcanon when your reading a book, playing a video game your expected to see everything you paid or wait till the next game. I've been a gamer for 13 years and not one of the games I played forces you to headcanon your own ending, that is a sad BS move

Both books and RPG games tells a story, and story has to end at some point. The only true end of your character's story is his death. What you expected, reunion, marriage, children and year by year description of Shepard's life til he/she dies of old age?