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[Taboo]

You have some semblance of control. That makes you god.

You decide who lives and who dies and many other things.

You can't do that in a film.

[Reorte]

Taboo-XX wrote...

You have some semblance of control. That makes you god.

You decide who lives and who dies and many other things.

You can't do that in a film.

You have less control than you have in real life and I'm certainly not god in reality.

[kyban]

riesenwiesel wrote...

Daniel_N7 wrote...
I have no problem (and never had) with the fact that Mass Effect 3 was going to be the final chapter of Shepard's story. Turns out that not even BioWare knows what his story was.

Exactly.

A story-teller that cannot tell his own story to the end? Well, I hope you never try that one on your kids...

"and they all lived happily ever after... ooor maybe the ghost of the dead witch killed them while sleeping, and now go to bed." <trollface>

Dang, that's deep dude. Think i'll save this quote.

[Taboo]

Reorte wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You have some semblance of control. That makes you god.

You decide who lives and who dies and many other things.

You can't do that in a film.

You have less control than you have in real life and I'm certainly not god in reality.

That's why it's called a Role Playing Game dude.

You decide what you want within in the given parameters.

[Dean_the_Young]

MordiMoro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

]Mass Effect without Shepard would be like the DC Universe without Batman. Batman is central to his own corner of the universe. The Mass Effect universe is bigger than Shepard, and has been for some time.

I created my Shepard, I have played in the world of Mass Effect as Shepard.
To play as James Vega I do not care.

That's nice, but not relevant to the fact that the franchise isn't just about Shepard.

But in fact, even if the protagonist why change?
I do not think Hawke in DA2 has shined ....

Besides obvious opportunities for a more sensible plot, stepping away from the same in-jokes and overused relationships, and the fact that Shepard's story needs no continuation?

Because having Shepard be alive after a time-skip of a few hundred years would be rather bizaar.

This destroy / alive sounds like a joke. if he should die for "artistic integrity" could be avoided, as they can to avoid speculation and changing versions breathe / exhale.

This fragment is so plagued by bad grammer and nonsensical flow that I can't make heads or tails of it.

[Dean_the_Young]

cyrslash1974 wrote...

MordiMoro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

]Mass Effect without Shepard would be like the DC Universe without Batman. Batman is central to his own corner of the universe. The Mass Effect universe is bigger than Shepard, and has been for some time.

I created my Shepard, I have played in the world of Mass Effect as Shepard.
To play as James Vega I do not care.

This. 5 years of Shepard's adventures (our Shepard, a great part of us) cannot be deleted easily

In five hundred years, only a few of Shepard's exploits will have any relevance. Time obscures all things.

[3DandBeyond]

The Twilight God wrote...

It amazes me how people complaining about Biowares are pulling their own Bioware (i.e. ignoring established lore).

The pre-EC endings equated to galactic civilization being snuffed out. As you said, this was already established in Arrival that relays goes boom, star system goes with it. This even if even mentioned at the start of ME3 and by Batarians on the Citadel.

Post-EC there will still be no crew reunion for destroy. The relays are non-functional even if they changed it from exploding to just "severely damaged". And it will take centuries to get repair crews to them all via FTL travel.

Kind of hard to get a happy ending out of this except for Synthesis and Destroy assuming reaper FTL is WAY faster than ours. And if the only way to be "happy" is to collaborate with the Reapers and be stupid enough to trust them for no reason then it's broken writting.

Bioware insists the torso in rubble is a "happy" ending. Bioware continually insists that from this it is obvious that a reunion will take place. Bioware stated on twitter and on other places that the LI not placing the name on the wall and the Normandy flying off indicates, no clearly says Shepard lives and will be found by his/her teammates.

Bioware left the destroy ending muddied on purpose.  There's no conceivable way to conclude that any ending is a happy ending. You can't get a happy ending in this game.  Therefore, no real win scenario exists.

I  am saying and have said until I am blue in the face that Bioware ignored their own lore and they have continually contradicted themselves not only from ME3 to 1 and 2, but within ME3 alone.

I do believe they tried to make one ending more "preferable" to others, but I never said it made sense.  None of them make sense at all. 

At this point I have come to realize they are beyond listening and never really did listen at all.  The EC was created to explain the original endings, not to make them fit within the lore they created.  They still are the same as they always were, disconnected and out of place.  But, great they look cooler now.  They are superficial and if looked at for what they really are, nonsense, fantasy, and actually horrific.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:22 .

[Shaigunjoe]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

cyrslash1974 wrote...

MordiMoro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

]Mass Effect without Shepard would be like the DC Universe without Batman. Batman is central to his own corner of the universe. The Mass Effect universe is bigger than Shepard, and has been for some time.

I created my Shepard, I have played in the world of Mass Effect as Shepard.
To play as James Vega I do not care.

This. 5 years of Shepard's adventures (our Shepard, a great part of us) cannot be deleted easily

In five hundred years, only a few of Shepard's exploits will have any relevance. Time obscures all things.

I think it would be cool to have a game set in the future 500 years and  there would be a shepardology religion, with the church of garrus, and  the church of tali, etc, and the teachings based on the actions your shep made 500 years ago.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:23 .

[Reorte]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You have some semblance of control. That makes you god.

You decide who lives and who dies and many other things.

You can't do that in a film.

You have less control than you have in real life and I'm certainly not god in reality.

That's why it's called a Role Playing Game dude.

You decide what you want within in the given parameters.

Exactly - certainly NOT god and therefore a long way from being the author of the story, but "headcanon the end" moves a long, long way from acting within certain parameters and seeing the consequences of them to being in complete control of every single detail.

[Reorte]

3DandBeyond wrote...
I  am saying and have said until I am blue in the face

You need to change your avatar to non-cloned ME1 Shiala then.

[Taboo]

Reorte wrote...

Exactly - certainly NOT god and therefore a long way from being the author of the story, but "headcanon the end" moves a long, long way from acting within certain parameters and seeing the consequences of them to being in complete control of every single detail.

They have given you everything to make the ending you want.

The ultimate role playing game.

But people seem to think the only way to reach a semblence of closure is to have a scene with Closer playing in the background.

No. Just No.

[Pitznik]

Reorte wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You have some semblance of control. That makes you god.

You decide who lives and who dies and many other things.

You can't do that in a film.

You have less control than you have in real life and I'm certainly not god in reality.

That's why it's called a Role Playing Game dude.

You decide what you want within in the given parameters.

Exactly - certainly NOT god and therefore a long way from being the author of the story, but "headcanon the end" moves a long, long way from acting within certain parameters and seeing the consequences of them to being in complete control of every single detail.

You don't headcanon the end, but what is after the end, just like in any other story. Shepard is alive, in the pile of rubble, probably on the Citadel. Everything else is headcanon.

[Reorte]

Taboo-XX wrote...

They have given you everything to make the ending you want.

The ultimate role playing game.

But people seem to think the only way to reach a semblence of closure is to have a scene with Closer playing in the background.

No. Just No.

If you have complete control over everything it is not a roleplaying game, you're writing a story! Do you honestly not know the difference between playing and writing? You could stop the game at any point in the series and say "Make the rest up as you like" if your position made sense.

[Taboo]

Reorte wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

They have given you everything to make the ending you want.

The ultimate role playing game.

But people seem to think the only way to reach a semblence of closure is to have a scene with Closer playing in the background.

No. Just No.

If you have complete control over everything it is not a roleplaying game, you're writing a story! Do you honestly not know the difference between playing and writing? You could stop the game at any point in the series and say "Make the rest up as you like" if your position made sense.

The narrative ends once the screen cuts to black. Everything else is up to you.

But yes, please continue with the non-sequtors.

Do you honestly believe that the games played just like they were presented?

That Shepard DIDN'T have to use the bathroom at some point?

???

Apply some sense here. 

[Reorte]

Pitznik wrote...

You don't headcanon the end, but what is after the end, just like in any other story. Shepard is alive, in the pile of rubble, probably on the Citadel. Everything else is headcanon.

That is in the middle of the end, not the end of the end. Blue babies, house on Rannoch, that's all after the end where headcanon belongs. Knowing the immediate impact of the events on the main characters is still part of the story.

[Taboo]

Reorte wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

You don't headcanon the end, but what is after the end, just like in any other story. Shepard is alive, in the pile of rubble, probably on the Citadel. Everything else is headcanon.

That is in the middle of the end, not the end of the end. Blue babies, house on Rannoch, that's all after the end where headcanon belongs. Knowing the immediate impact of the events on the main characters is still part of the story.

It's known as the Shepard Lives ending.

All you need to know is that he is alive. Basic logic would dictate what happens next.

Unless you WANT him to die in a pile of his own filth.

[Reorte]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

They have given you everything to make the ending you want.

The ultimate role playing game.

But people seem to think the only way to reach a semblence of closure is to have a scene with Closer playing in the background.

No. Just No.

If you have complete control over everything it is not a roleplaying game, you're writing a story! Do you honestly not know the difference between playing and writing? You could stop the game at any point in the series and say "Make the rest up as you like" if your position made sense.

The narrative ends once the screen cuts to black. Everything else is up to you.

But yes, please continue with the non-sequtors.

Do you honestly believe that the games played just like they were presented?

That Shepard DIDN'T have to use the bathroom at some point?

???

Apply some sense here. 

Apply some sense? It's hard when you're jumping around so randomly. Can you seriously not tell the difference between not showing the mundane and routine and events that have a major impact on the major characters? Why not ditch the Tuchanka mission and replace it with an email saying "Genophage probably cured and Mordin probably dead", letting you decide upon precisely what happened?

[Reorte]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's known as the Shepard Lives ending.

All you need to know is that he is alive. Basic logic would dictate what happens next.

Unless you WANT him to die in a pile of his own filth.

Basic logic dictates that you haven't got a clue what happens next because there's no in-game evidence, which is the evidence that matters, unless you rely on literary and film cliches to get your point across. If you have to do that then you're a lousy hack writer. As I've said before on numerous threads having to consider motivation for sticking a scene in, digging out Twitter posts, and rummaging through the game files is hardly a brilliant storytelling mechanic because it fails completely at the emotional level, which is where stories need to work.

[Taboo]

Well, I tend to get out of the house enough to know that being spoon fed all of the information is not necessary. Western Art does this more often than others. You are told everything. You are a passive member of the audience, rather than a participant.

I would prefer to be a participant, not a drone taking in information.

You don't need to know everything.

[Pitznik]

Reorte wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

You don't headcanon the end, but what is after the end, just like in any other story. Shepard is alive, in the pile of rubble, probably on the Citadel. Everything else is headcanon.

That is in the middle of the end, not the end of the end. Blue babies, house on Rannoch, that's all after the end where headcanon belongs. Knowing the immediate impact of the events on the main characters is still part of the story.

No, this is the end. You got all the information you needed - Shepard is alive. That is all. If he would be supposed to die in that ending, it would be shown.

[Reorte]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well, I tend to get out of the house enough to know that being spoon fed all of the information is not necessary. Western Art does this more often than others. You are told everything. You are a passive member of the audience, rather than a participant.

I would prefer to be a participant, not a drone taking in information.

You don't need to know everything.

Fine, get a bare bones synopsis of the whole thing and be satisfied - except you won't be. And the "spoon fed" argument is as tired as saying that everyone who dislikes the ending are entitled whiners.

You are clearly happy to fill in missing information with your head. That's very different from filling in things that logically must happen. It's a pity that you can't tell the difference. I want to be a participant, not told to sod off and make up the rest myself.

[Reorte]

Pitznik wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

You don't headcanon the end, but what is after the end, just like in any other story. Shepard is alive, in the pile of rubble, probably on the Citadel. Everything else is headcanon.

That is in the middle of the end, not the end of the end. Blue babies, house on Rannoch, that's all after the end where headcanon belongs. Knowing the immediate impact of the events on the main characters is still part of the story.

No, this is the end. You got all the information you needed - Shepard is alive. That is all. If he would be supposed to die in that ending, it would be shown.

And we're back to having to consider the motivation for sticking the scene in in order to consider what it means - epic fail.

[Taboo]

Reorte wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Well, I tend to get out of the house enough to know that being spoon fed all of the information is not necessary. Western Art does this more often than others. You are told everything. You are a passive member of the audience, rather than a participant.

I would prefer to be a participant, not a drone taking in information.

You don't need to know everything.

Fine, get a bare bones synopsis of the whole thing and be satisfied - except you won't be. And the "spoon fed" argument is as tired as saying that everyone who dislikes the ending are entitled whiners.

You are clearly happy to fill in missing information with your head. That's very different from filling in things that logically must happen. It's a pity that you can't tell the difference. I want to be a participant, not told to sod off and make up the rest myself.

You have all the information you need.

By your logic Janet Leigh isn't stabbed to death in the shower scene in Psycho because we never see the knife penetrate her flesh.

Is it so difficult to provide information to the gaps of logic with the evidence provided?

[TookYoCookies]

Gotta have bait on the hooks if you want to keep the fish interested.

Modifié par TookYoCookies, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:47 .

[Taboo]

TookYoCookies wrote...

Gotta have bait on the hooks if you want to keep the fish.

Fishing is actually incredibly tedious.

Plus all of the fish are tainted by chemicals now.

But I don't need to see fish to know that the lake has them.