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Was the Ending just Badly Written? - Bad Writing Theory!

Débuté par The Heretic of Time , juil. 16 2012 11:54

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#51
JPN17
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 09:41

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SubAstris wrote...

The Crucible itself wasn't where it went wrong, it was just the fact that it did what it was meant to that it was such a bad plot device.


I agree that a plot centered around the crucible could have been told well, but Bioware obviously didn't succeed. Though I do have to say that it was very disappointing that Casey Hudson said there wouldn't be a "reaper off switch" yet 20 minutes into ME3 that's exactly what we got.

#52
The Heretic of Time
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 09:46

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Eterna5 wrote...

.......Are you trying to say that Mass Effect 2 did not forshadow the reaper invasion? 


I'm saying is that Mass Effect 2 didn't add anything of significance to the plot and didn't set up the stage of Mass Effect 3 that wlel. Foreshadowing the Reaper invasion? Mass Effect 1 already did that.

In fact, if you ignore the characters of ME2 for a moment, than you'll see that you can simply put Mass Effect 3 right after Mass Effect 1 and you wouldn't miss a thing. The entire ME2 game felt more like a huge filler episode rather than an important 2nd act of a trilogy.

Ask yourself this: What significance did ME2 add to the plot of Mass Effect and in what way did ME2 take the plot forwards?

Instead of moving the plot forward, ME2 felt incredibly stagnant. We got tons of new characters, new enemies and new locations, but none of it all moved the plot forward in any significant way. Shepard's death and ressurection was a waste of time and nothing more than a horrible plot device to railroad all our Shepards into working with Cerberus. The Council was still refusing to believe Shepard even after everything Shepard did in ME1. Anderson didn't do anything significant to prepare for the upcoming Reaper invasion. The only thing ME2 really expanded on is the Cerberus plotline... and for what reason? After all Cerberus just returns back to their standard villainry in ME3, so what was the point in fleshing out Cerberus's story in ME2 if they're just going to be standard targets for Shepard to shoot at in ME3? Cerberus's behavior actually makes more sense if we would just forget about ME2, as their behavior in ME3 is more in line with their behavior in ME1.

What ME2 needed to foreshadow was the Crucible, the motivation behind the Reaper cycle and The Catalyst. All that already needed foreshadowing in ME2. Right now it feels like BioWare just pulled all those plot devices out of their asses at the very last minute. It feels like BioWare just made it all up on the spot during the writing for ME3. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this indeed is the case.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:49 .

#53
Thaa_solon
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 09:48

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Bad writing + rush job + lies + marketing = ART

Simply genius

#54
JPN17
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 09:53

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Eterna5 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Why are we still ****ing about endings? EC is released, it's over, done. Stop beating a dead horse and move on.


This is not just about the ending. You would have realized this if you had actually read the OP.


If you thought anything besides the ending was poorly written you were probably impossible to please anyway.


And on what grounds do you base this accusation? There is plenty wrong with the writing of Mass Effect 3, not just the ending. That does not mean I'm impossible to please. I have plenty of games that managed to please me in the writing department. The first game that comes to mind if The Witcher 2. I simply loved the story, plot and characters in that game. It also sets up the stage for The Witcher 3 quite nicely, something ME2 failed to do.


.......Are you trying to say that Mass Effect 2 did not forshadow the reaper invasion? 


Why exactly would ME2 need to foreshadow the reaper invasion? The reapers existing and coming to the galaxy is known after ME. Stopping the reapers is the point of the games (well it's supposed to be anyway. ME2 did very littile in accomplishing that goal). There is no need for the reaper invasion to be foreshadowed in ME2. It is obvious.

#55
JPN17
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 09:56

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Thaa_solon wrote...

Bad writing + rush job + lies + marketing = ART

Simply genius


The Bioware mantra.

#56
tonnactus
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 10:06

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Not only the ending. The whole crucible plot and the involvment of cerberus in that scale was nonsensical.

#57
The Heretic of Time
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 10:39

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JPN17 wrote...

Why exactly would ME2 need to foreshadow the reaper invasion? The reapers existing and coming to the galaxy is known after ME. Stopping the reapers is the point of the games (well it's supposed to be anyway. ME2 did very littile in accomplishing that goal). There is no need for the reaper invasion to be foreshadowed in ME2. It is obvious.


Besides, the only actual foreshadowing ME2 did was TIM who constantly made Shepard aware of the upcomming Reaper invasion and the last 3 seconds of the game before the credits roll.

It's amazing how little ME2 moved the plot forward, considering the fact that it was quite a large game. Seems BioWare thought new squad members with daddy issues were more important than the actual main plot. :unsure:

#58
Conniving_Eagle
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 10:46

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Eain wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Two pseudo-intellectuals saw the ending as an opportunity to subliminally cram their philosophical bull**** down the fans' throats.


Wasn't very subliminal.


It get's you thinking though.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 16 juillet 2012 - 10:46 .

#59
Thore2k10
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 10:49

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the main plot was really uninspired.

in the first few minutes you get to see how the reapers attack earth. then you escape. hackett tells you theres "no way we can win this conventionally". 10 minutes later you are on mars and liara tells you "hey ive found a way to beat the reaper" .... yeah, great bioware! what an exciting twist in the story...

the ending was written by ten blindfolded monkeys who just played around with a typewriter... had nothing to do with Mass Effect

Modifié par Thore2k10, 16 juillet 2012 - 10:52 .

#60
tonnactus
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 11:12

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...


It's amazing how little ME2 moved the plot forward, considering the fact that it was quite a large game. Seems BioWare thought new squad members with daddy issues were more important than the actual main plot. :unsure:


Off topic: Its funny how many people didnt like Kaidan for being "whiny" while in Mass Effect 2 nearly everyone was exactly this.

#61
masster blaster
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 11:18

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Nice to see you made a forum about this Heretic, and everyone says hello at IT. Well I do. Buy tou get what I mean. see ya.

#62
The Heretic of Time
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 11:25

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tonnactus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


It's amazing how little ME2 moved the plot forward, considering the fact that it was quite a large game. Seems BioWare thought new squad members with daddy issues were more important than the actual main plot. :unsure:


Off topic: Its funny how many people didnt like Kaidan for being "whiny" while in Mass Effect 2 nearly everyone was exactly this.


Yeah I know. I've wondered several times when I first played ME2: "Why the f*ck am I wasting time on fixing the stupid daddy issues of my squad members while I should be focussing on the bloody Reapers?  F*CK!:pinched:"

#63
The Heretic of Time
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 11:26

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masster blaster wrote...

Nice to see you made a forum about this Heretic, and everyone says hello at IT. Well I do. Buy tou get what I mean. see ya.


Well I guess you ITers are glad I'm no longer taking this too your thread. It's one of the reasons why I made this seperate thread you know.

#64
masster blaster
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 11:40

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Nice to see you made a forum about this Heretic, and everyone says hello at IT. Well I do. Buy tou get what I mean. see ya.


Well I guess you ITers are glad I'm no longer taking this too your thread. It's one of the reasons why I made this seperate thread you know.


Well not gald, but we wish you could have given us a chance, to explain IT to you, but not on full rage mode. But as our selfs.

#65
Guest_Eloise K_*
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 11:46

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Any story that ends with a Deus ex Machina is a poorly written story; the DeM plot device was awful back in 500bC, why should it be any good now?, on an interactive medium as a videogame that was supposedly character/player driven? Nah...
I'm uncertain about wether the writers were incompetent or they hadn't had the time to develop and write the game properly, or both of those options. All I can say is that the results are unfortunate.
Focusing solely on the ending, it is obvious that the writers' purpose was to create a huge plot twist, something that would give the player a new perspective on what the Reapers represent and what's their aim, in awe and shock.
Needless to say, they failed.
Why? As already said, the introduction of a new character as a DeM - whose logic is not only flawed but also contradicts/doesn’t take into account what we've seen during the saga - that comes to solve an otherwise seemingly unsolvable task is not just very mediocre, writing-wise, but also betrays the basis of any RPG (hybrid RPG+TPS game included) since it robs the player the undebiable right to decide what actions its avatar should take.
If BW wanted to maintain that plot twist, those three morally abhorrent choices, they – the writers – should have thought about it way before the 3rd installment of a story that, if I remember correctly, was presented as a trilogy from the beginning.
How? I’m not a writer, I can only broadly make assumptions from what I see on (good) movies and read on (good) books. But let’s say I want to keep the Crucible, the three endings’ implications and above all the “lots of speculation” plot twist, just to mantain that *cough cough* artistic integrity intact.
First of all, the introduction of the Crucible should have been made earlier in the series, let’s say during ME2, even a hint from Vigil would have been appreciated. I’m not saying that BW should have disclosed this “”useful”” item entirely, just some hints, something we get to know but we also could easily forget.
How to get rid of the Deus ex Machina.
One word: Protheans. During ME all we know about the Reapers comes from informations given by Prothean’s devices. Why should it be any different in the ending of ME3? Why aren’t we given the chance to discover something more about that civilization not just from the distorted words of that obnoxious Javik? I don’t consider the original idea of Shepard’s visions/allucinations bad at all, plus knowing important facts from a people who already suffered the Reapers invasion would make a strong bond between the past cycle and the present cycle, also reinforcing the image we have of the Reapers themselves.
Given that we know about the Reapers’ real aim and the Crucible functioning from a Prothean device or a Prothean VI on the Citadel, what are the implications of it all IF we really want to keep that apparently important plot twist?
Well, first of all we - along with our Shepards - would find out that The Illusive Man and Saren were right; this new awareness would lead Shepard/us to the bitter conclusion that what we believed to be right, what we stood for was just a matter of utter vanity. Nothing wrong with that, it’s legit, even the disenchantment and feeling stupid is legit. Had the ending been presented that way we could also finally turn Shepard into the glorious Tragic Hero that some people seem to love so dearly. A tragic hero is a person whose misfortune is brought by said person’s mistakes or frailty, and through his flaws the hero achieves his goals, dying. In Shepard’s case his/her mistakes stands in believing that the pattern Shep chose was the only one possible, that what s/he believed (self-determination, unity in diversity and so on) at the end was an unachievable goal, it was just a childish idealization of how the existence should be. I know it’s something very hard to accept*, but jeez… isn’t the heroic tragedy what we love the most in epic stories? Plus, the Cosmicism BW stuck in our throats during ME would still be intact and immensely terrifying.
Finally, ME3 as it is invalidates what we’ve seen during the first two installments and although ME2 already seemed just like a very long side quest, as of now ME2 has completely lost any importance since we aren’t given the chance to see the aftermath of the actions we took during that installment.
Why were humans so special to be harvested? Why was important that the humans were the more adaptable species on the entire galaxy? Adaptable to what?
We will never know…




*Needless to say, as many of you I too wanted my choices to matter and I would also have appreciated the introduction of an ending that had taken into account what we achieved during the games...

Modifié par Eloise K, 16 juillet 2012 - 11:47 .

#66
TheShadowWolf911
Posté 16 juillet 2012 - 11:51

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using speculation as a reason for a ending is poor writing in my opinion.

#67
paxxton
Posté 17 juillet 2012 - 12:02

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Hello.

#68
comrade gando
Posté 17 juillet 2012 - 12:04

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wait a tick didn't they say they wanted their ending to be something that would be talked about for years? How can they say that, then come out and say they didn't know how they were going to end it essentially. what is this, I don't even...

#69
masster blaster
Posté 17 juillet 2012 - 12:21

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Guys come on leave his post alone, he has every right to do this, as we are to have our theory, so leave him be. If we start arguing with him, or anyone on this forum, then we are no better than him coming into our forum, and just saying " Your grasping straws, and it's wrong" So please let's not get into anything here.

#70
paxxton
Posté 17 juillet 2012 - 12:28

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Even if you think IT wasn't planned, it fits nicely into the current ending so why not just call it a day and support IT. The more support IT has, the higher the possibility BioWare implements it in a future game.

#71
The Heretic of Time
Posté 17 juillet 2012 - 12:34

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paxxton wrote...

Even if you think IT wasn't planned, it fits nicely into the current ending so why not just call it a day and support IT. The more support IT has, the higher the possibility BioWare implements it in a future game.


How about you stop trying to shove down your opinion as fact and just accept that not everyone likes the IT?

I don't think the IT fits nicely, I would find it weird if it turned out to be true and I actually rather keep the current mediocre endings than going down that IT rabbit hole.

#72
paxxton
Posté 17 juillet 2012 - 12:38

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Even if you think IT wasn't planned, it fits nicely into the current ending so why not just call it a day and support IT. The more support IT has, the higher the possibility BioWare implements it in a future game.


How about you stop trying to shove down your opinion as fact and just accept that not everyone likes the IT?

I don't think the IT fits nicely, I would find it weird if it turned out to be true and I actually rather keep the current mediocre endings than going down that IT rabbit hole.

I don't understand why you persist. IT isn't about blind faith in talking rabbits but imposing order to chaos based on different aspects of ME lore.

Modifié par paxxton, 17 juillet 2012 - 12:39 .

#73
The Heretic of Time
Posté 17 juillet 2012 - 12:41

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masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Nice to see you made a forum about this Heretic, and everyone says hello at IT. Well I do. Buy tou get what I mean. see ya.


Well I guess you ITers are glad I'm no longer taking this too your thread. It's one of the reasons why I made this seperate thread you know.


Well not gald, but we wish you could have given us a chance, to explain IT to you, but not on full rage mode. But as our selfs.


I think I know fairly well how the IT works. I've seen most of the IT movies (believe it or not, even though most of your movies are waaaayyyy too long and you guys really need to work in your editing skills to get those movies shorter and more to the point, I actually did watch them regardless of that).

I guess you just have to accept that I just really don't believe the IT holds any water, nor do I think BioWare will ever do anything significant with your theory, nor do I even want them to because I honestly don't even like the IT.

#74
paxxton
Posté 17 juillet 2012 - 12:43

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Did you watch ACAVYOS' video on Indoctrination? Great one and presents IT in a nutshell.

#75
The Heretic of Time
Posté 17 juillet 2012 - 12:47

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paxxton wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Even if you think IT wasn't planned, it fits nicely into the current ending so why not just call it a day and support IT. The more support IT has, the higher the possibility BioWare implements it in a future game.


How about you stop trying to shove down your opinion as fact and just accept that not everyone likes the IT?

I don't think the IT fits nicely, I would find it weird if it turned out to be true and I actually rather keep the current mediocre endings than going down that IT rabbit hole.

I don't understand why you persist. IT isn't about blind faith in talking rabbits but imposing order to chaos based on different aspects of ME lore.


I don't understand why you don't get it . IT is all about seeing patterns because you want to see patterns It's like seeing a cloud in the shape of  a face. You know the cloud doesn't really have a face, but you see a face anyway because you're human and it's just wat humans do. We humans have the tendency to antropomorphise things and see human characteristics in everything, even if the human characteristics aren't really there.

It's the same with IT. You see connections and clues for IT because you want to see them, even if they aren't really there, you still see them. It is a rabbit hole.
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