Aller au contenu

Photo

Was the Ending just Badly Written? - Bad Writing Theory!


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
212 réponses à ce sujet

#126
nitefyre410

nitefyre410
  • Members
  • 8 944 messages

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

The problem with ME2 is not that it's a bad game with a bad plot persee. No, the problem with ME2 is that it doesn't move the plot forward in any significant way. At the end of ME2 we literally have gained NOTHING of value towards to main plot (well, if you blew up the Collector base that is).

At the end of ME2 you literally haven't moved an inch forward compared to the end of ME1. Not an inch!

The point of ME2 was to build friendships and gain close allies that are guaranteed to come for the rescue when the time comes. It was also a single mission (stop the Collectors) seen by players in great detail. You couldn't have just go and stop them alone. You had to build a team first. ME2 was more of a "life goes on after the Battle of the Citadel" game.


Which makes ME2 a great game on it's own, but NOT in the grand scope of an entire trilogy. 

 

^ This one has it correct.  

#127
Vox Draco

Vox Draco
  • Members
  • 2 939 messages
Interesting course this thread has taken...actually I am all for the IT, I love this idea, but even if it was true, maybe even planned from the start and everything now just a "placeholder" I do NOT consider the entire plotline of Mass Effect from ME2 onwards as very well written...because it really has a lot of issues not handled very well 

Heretic Hanar has made a good point: ME2, as much as many like this game and praise it, is really a pointless  affair in terms of the entire plot. It pains me to think that all this time was wasted with adding too many characters whcih were, with all due respect, never squadmember-material. Mass Effect 3 even confirms this in a way: Which characters actually are both squadmates in ME2 and 3? Right, none, not a single one, they all have reduced to standard supporting-characters. 

How many things that are important in ME2 are refered to again in ME3? The human Reaper? Was it important that it was made in the first place? Would anything have changed if it never happenend? Was it only there so Cerberus has some kind of justification for becoming an entire army capable of challenging the entire galaxy with "reaperized" soldiers, or what was the purpose again? Surely not the fact the Reapers procreate by harvesting humans and others, that big reveal doesn't seem to bother anyone anymore, especially not shepard meeting the catalyst...Not to mention the still remaining reference to the Dark Energy plot in Tali's mission...

As I see it, one problem is that Mass Effect always wanted to be like a movie, but also tried to make every game quite accessable to new players as well. Bioware even says in their advertisements for Mass Effect 3 it is the perfect game to start the Mass Effect experience...What? If you can start a trilogy with part 3 and won't miss out much, than something really went wrong with your story-telling, I dare to say. 

Of course as a game-company they want each title to reach new and old fans, but if you make a trilogy telling a coherent story that links each of the three games with each other, you have to take care of that and maybe sacrifice potential new players in favor of your story connecting to previous titles. But it is mostly true: If you haven't played ME2, you haven't missed out on much, storywise...

I can think of only Mordin and Legion being of much importance to ME3, the latter being introduced along his very intriguing plot-twist in regards to the Geth being not the villains we thought  far too late in ME2, by the way. Anything else? Mostly fillers, no thrillers...








 

#128
The Heretic of Time

The Heretic of Time
  • Members
  • 5 612 messages

Vox Draco wrote...

It pains me to think that all this time was wasted with adding too many characters whcih were, with all due respect, never squadmember-material. Mass Effect 3 even confirms this in a way: Which characters actually are both squadmates in ME2 and 3? Right, none, not a single one, they all have reduced to standard supporting-characters. 


Well Tali and Garrus return as squad members. But that's mostly because they were also already present in ME1 and they're just fan-favorites.

I already said it several times during ME2: Twelve squad members is just overkill and it shows. Not only do all ME2 characters seem to live in a bubble (they only stay in their own area, talking about their own problems and never interacting with the others), they're also rather shallow and not really fleshed out. And with 12 characters, all of them capable of dying in the suicide mission, it is clear that BioWare sort of wrote themselves in the corner for ME3. With a situation like this, the only thing you can do is reduce all 12 characters back to minor roles in ME3.


As I see it, one problem is that Mass Effect always wanted to be like a movie, but also tried to make every game quite accessable to new players as well. Bioware even says in their advertisements for Mass Effect 3 it is the perfect game to start the Mass Effect experience...What? If you can start a trilogy with part 3 and won't miss out much, than something really went wrong with your story-telling, I dare to say. 

Of course as a game-company they want each title to reach new and old fans, but if you make a trilogy telling a coherent story that links each of the three games with each other, you have to take care of that and maybe sacrifice potential new players in favor of your story connecting to previous titles. But it is mostly true: If you haven't played ME2, you haven't missed out on much, storywise... 


Well if they actually planned ahead they could have pulled it off. Just look at The Witcher series. The Witcher 2 really nicely continues where The Witcher 1 left of and it really continues the story and the lore in a nice way, while at the same time providing enough new stuff to get excited about, even as a new player. A new player who never played The Witcher 1 might be confused who is who at the start of the game, but eventually they'll pick up and enjoy The Witcher 2 just as much as those hardcore Witcher fans who played The Witcher 1 a dozen times over before The Witcher 2 was released.

#129
sH0tgUn jUliA

sH0tgUn jUliA
  • Members
  • 16 818 messages

nitefyre410 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Actually it started in the beginning of the game. There were bright spots in Tuchanka and Rannoch, but other than that I gave the whole SP campaign of ME3 a 6.5/10. With a great ending it would have kicked it up to a 7.5 because of the crappy beginning, Thessia, and the Cerberus missions, the journal, and the way the side quests had to be discovered.

But I could write a better ending if you want.


I think the whole point Oxspit is trying to make is that the problem with ME3 does not exclusively exist in the endings. There is more wrong with ME3 than just the ending.

I have no idea how I could write a better ending to ME3 without at least changing a few things about the whole plot in general. For example I would handle TIM and Cerberus completely different if it was up to me. Also no stupid vent kid in my version and the Crucible is not found on Mars but somewhere else.

 

I agree, the ending is a result of a badly written  and throught out main plot.   As far as vent kid,  he is  needed and there is no need for him. There is need because you need a sympathic face, their is no need because you have plenty of other sympathic   faces that can be used and there is no excuse for the Catalyst look like the kid, that just caused too much confusion. Garrus and his family, Joker and his sister and dad. Etc,etc,etc .  As  far as Crucible, I would have it  that you don;t have all the plans for the  Crucible on  Mars, you only find a part. There rest  are  scattered in other archives  and on the Citadel itself , along with info on what the Catalyst is. So by the end you have all the information but you just have the Catalyst put all together in the proper order.

You know what is really ironic? I actually gave them a real honest chance with this EC. I actually did a playthrough fully from ME1 with all the DLC to the end. Silly me. But it really gave some insight into how crappy a game this was in its totality. I just got up, so my brain is still waking up. I still got the exact same feeling of emptiness at the end that I got the first time I played it. The EC? Why did they even bother? It was the same ****ty ending with sprinkles on it. Control and Synthesis people got their closure. Destroy people got the big middle finger, as did the refuse people. And they have the nerve to say that the endings are equal. Okay enough of that. Here's the problems:

I. The Master Plan -- Shepard dies. We have to kill Shepard off and give the most grim and dark ending in video gaming history. This will go down as artistic genius. The fans will love it. And I'm tired of writing this series. -- in an unrecorded after hours session with Mac and Casey.

1. No continiuity between ME2 and ME3. ME2 could have had some reason to exist if the purpose of making the human reaper was to try again where Sovereign failed, but no. They decided not to do that. It would have allowed too much time in game years in between, and would have given the politicians time to come to their senses and prepare for the invasion. Logically, and apparently logic doesn't exist in the Mass Effect universe, the quote from Harbinger at the end of the Suicide Mission "You have failed, we will find another way." That would logically have been the start of the trek to the Alpha Relay, but then they retconned it via Twitter (damn I needed to keep up with these ****ty writers) and said they started right after Sovereign failed which made the entire ME2 pointless. "Arrival" DLC shows how fast :wizard: drive works.

2. The Beginning of ME3 was a complete cluster****. I think I could write a better beginning during a morning constitutional. Where was the inquest? And then Shepard forgot how to fire a gun? And those idiots on the Defense Council? How the hell did those geniuses get promoted? After meeting Vega and getting to know Anderson more during this series I figured out that there was a disqualification IQ for the Alliance military. No wait. Make that a disqualification IQ for the "good guys" -- that was 90. Any IQ over 90 was rejected as too intelligent. Well except in the cases of Mordin, Daro'Xen when you were just branded as totally eccentric or portrayed as a monster. Ash and Kaiden? Still dumb as rocks.

3. Udina wanting to defect to Cerberus actually was one thing in the plot that made sense. The council was a bunch of idiots. It didn't matter if you saved them or not in ME1. It was just different idiots. He was frustrated. TIM offered him control. He accepted.

4. The Mars Archives -- This was a whoops. We actually shouldn't have started the reapers moving after Sovereign. So now there is no time for a preparation. What do we do? A superweapon. Okay I can work with this, not because I want to but because I have to. But how does femShep disguise herself as a Cerberus trooper when there aren't any female troopers? The Nemesis goes "beeep bworp". The Phantom goes makes another incomprehensible noise. But we're stuck here. The Superweapon suddenly appearing in the Mars Archives are a major **** up in the story. If they'd properly laid the ground work for the reaper arrival they wouldn't have needed a plot device like this. Liara being at the Mars Archives gathering some last minute tech stuff? Fine. We'll pick her up.

5. Now it would have been really cool if they'd simmed the gravity on the Palaven moon to be different than the planets, but I guess that's a limitation of the engine, or programming, or they didn't want to confuse people. Halo jumps should have been allowed. I guess they couldn't map another thing to the A button or space bar. Palaven was basically a recruiting mission for Garrus disguised as a way to gain support of the Turians.

6. I'll make no bones about this. If you played a femShep who was hetero, and didn't romance Kaiden in ME1 or sacrificed him ("you know it's the right call"), and romanced Jacob or Thane in ME2, you were screwed in ME3. We know what the target audience was: the young straight male gamer. Not a major thing, but this could have been a hell of a lot more balanced. Back to the story.

7. Tuchanka and Rannoch -- I don't really know now if these parts were that well written or that they stand out as being fantastic because the rest of the story was so poorly written. They are pretty much about all that's worth it in the single player game. BioWare has shown a trend in the past several years of being great at developing characters but being really bad at writing story.

8. Thessia -- Now how did Cerberus find out about the Temple of Athame? This is a huge plot hole. One can make some assumptions: 1) Udina's office was bugged -- so why didn't the Asari councilor have the meeting in the Asari office? Was it because the graphics team didn't design that office? No. Was it because it would have made sense? No. Was it because the Asari councilor didn't want to inconvenience Shepard with a longer walk? No. It was because the Asari councilor has an IQ of under 90. OR 2) Someone on the Normandy was working for Cerberus. EDI you naughty machine. You're always listening. Still feeding The Illusive Man information with one of your sub-processes you don't even know about? How else has TIM been able to stay one step ahead of you? And You have the Shadow Broker. EDI is sending intel and EDI is not aware of it. And Traynor doesn't pick it up either.

But we know neither. We ASSUME that C-Sec has swept Udina's office for bugs. One would also think that the Councilor would have had Shepard scanned for bugs by C-Sec before the conversation. Aria T'Loak wouldn't have been so careless, but that's Aria who is labeled as "paranoid." Paranoia -- just a heighted state of awareness. What passes as paranoia in the ME universe is considered normal intelligence in the real world.

9. Don't get me started on those fraking stupid assed dream sequenses. Fortunately in my last playthrough I only had to listen to "Eve" and Thane, so they were much shorter than the first time.

10. I'll skip to the ending sequence. I just can't bear to go through more details. Suffice it to say just go view Smudboy's "Bookends of Destruction" and you'll see them all. I'm sorry I can't start my ending at the laser blast. I have to go back further. I have to go back to right after Cronos when we find out that The Illusive Man informed the Reapers and they moved the Citadel to Earth and that it's closed. Then Anderson gives the plan about getting a small ground team in. Hackett wants you to lead the fleet. No. No. No. No. In so many ways. No. Get Hackett on the com and tell him you've got another plan.

Ilos. Apparently the writing team went braindead again here. The conduit was still there in ME2. We can assume it's still there in ME3. EDI can go with you but of course her body will go limp when you use the conduit. She can reconnect when the Normandy joins the fight in the Sol System. I come up with a full squad mission from the conduit to the central control panel on the Citadel.

At least in the EC they stopped calling the beam "the conduit." But why do they still label the Catalyst "Child" in the conversation? That just makes me hate it more.

------------------------------------------------------

The entire ME3 story was written with one purpose in mind -- Shepard dies. But they couldn't do it outright because EA would scream bloody murder over no DLC sales. EA is not the bad guy here. So they give you this Matrix Reloaded ending with "speculation from everyone" if you worked your butt off to get all the assets and chose destroy. Never end a trilogy on a head canon. BW writers won't even make a commitment one way or another. Control got closure -- Shepard died. Synthesis got closure -- Shepard died. Destroy got speculations -- you get to make up your own ending. Lazy assed writing if you ask me.

IMO the EC was a really lame attempt at getting the fanbase back so that we'd buy DLC. It failed. :( Hell, I'm not even going to get DA3 until I've read the user reviews on Amazon before I buy.

#130
Vox Draco

Vox Draco
  • Members
  • 2 939 messages

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Well if they actually planned ahead they could have pulled it off. Just look at The Witcher series. The Witcher 2 really nicely continues where The Witcher 1 left of and it really continues the story and the lore in a nice way, while at the same time providing enough new stuff to get excited about, even as a new player. A new player who never played The Witcher 1 might be confused who is who at the start of the game, but eventually they'll pick up and enjoy The Witcher 2 just as much as those hardcore Witcher fans who played The Witcher 1 a dozen times over before The Witcher 2 was released.


Though Witcher2, even when you played the first one, can sometimes make you a little confused about things, for example Yennefer, who isn't even mentioned in part 1, yet is such an important factor to Geralt in part 2. Gladly I read some of the stories involving her, so I had a far better understanding why she is so important to Geralt...

I should really finish Witcher 2 sometime now...but that 3rd chapter just feels a little dull to me, still with their "EC" applied. Ah well, before Witcher 3 I will be done and see if the ending is indeed better than ME3. Not hard to accomplish though, I guess....

But I agree, Witcher feels a little more "planned", as far as I can say. Hell, look at the end of Witcher 1, it is directly continued in Witcher 2 and consequently continues that line....

Mass Effect got somehow lost on the way, and after reading Melinda Snodgrass' blog (scifi writer and ME-fan + close friend of RR Martin) I have to agree to many things she said. For example that a videogame is a work of many people, not the sole vision of one author like with a book. This can be good, I guess. But if the ME-story was truly planned all along as trilogy (I doubt this, at least not planned in much detail) than it would have needed a strong sole author to show where the journey is leading to, and which essential plotpoints can't be left out/cannot be changed.

#131
The Heretic of Time

The Heretic of Time
  • Members
  • 5 612 messages

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
IMO the EC was a really lame attempt at getting the fanbase back so that we'd buy DLC. It failed. :( Hell, I'm not even going to get DA3 until I've read the user reviews on Amazon before I buy. 


This.

Heck, I lost my interest in DA completely with the epic failure we know as DA2, so I'm not even going to get DA3 period. I just don't care anymore.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 17 juillet 2012 - 09:36 .


#132
The Heretic of Time

The Heretic of Time
  • Members
  • 5 612 messages

Vox Draco wrote...

Though Witcher2, even when you played the first one, can sometimes make you a little confused about things, for example Yennefer, who isn't even mentioned in part 1, yet is such an important factor to Geralt in part 2. Gladly I read some of the stories involving her, so I had a far better understanding why she is so important to Geralt...


Yeah, people might not get that if they didn't read the Witcher novels. Though my friend never played a Witcher game before and he didn't read the novels either, yet he mostly understood everything in The Witcher 2.

I should really finish Witcher 2 sometime now...but that 3rd chapter just feels a little dull to me, still with their "EC" applied. Ah well, before Witcher 3 I will be done and see if the ending is indeed better than ME3. Not hard to accomplish though, I guess....


You should. Chapter 3 becomes better when you're done with the political BS, that's when the action begins.


But I agree, Witcher feels a little more "planned", as far as I can say. Hell, look at the end of Witcher 1, it is directly continued in Witcher 2 and consequently continues that line....


Indeed. Not only that, but The Witcher 2 perfectly sets the stage for The Witcher 3. You'll know what I'm talking about when you've finished The Witcher 2.

Mass Effect got somehow lost on the way, and after reading Melinda Snodgrass' blog (scifi writer and ME-fan + close friend of RR Martin) I have to agree to many things she said.


Can you link me to that blog?

#133
nitefyre410

nitefyre410
  • Members
  • 8 944 messages

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
IMO the EC was a really lame attempt at getting the fanbase back so that we'd buy DLC. It failed. :( Hell, I'm not even going to get DA3 until I've read the user reviews on Amazon before I buy. 


This.

Heck, I lost my interest in DA completely with the epic failure we know as DA2, so I'm not even going to get DA3 period. I just don't care anymore.

  

I agree with the both you, I'll wait for fan reviews and I will  alot of research before even thinking about buying DA 3.

#134
Blueprotoss

Blueprotoss
  • Members
  • 3 378 messages

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Why are we still ****ing about endings? EC is released, it's over, done. Stop beating a dead horse and move on.


This is not just about the ending. You would have realized this if you had actually read the OP.


If you thought anything besides the ending was poorly written you were probably impossible to please anyway.


And on what grounds do you base this accusation? There is plenty wrong with the writing of Mass Effect 3, not just the ending. That does not mean I'm impossible to please. I have plenty of games that managed to please me in the writing department. The first game that comes to mind if The Witcher 2. I simply loved the story, plot and characters in that game. It also sets up the stage for The Witcher 3 quite nicely, something ME2 failed to do.

Speculation isn't evidence while its just some people being hard to please based on ME being a choice focused trilogy and their expectations being way too high.  Btw there are a couple conficts in the Witcher 2 based on the Witcher endings while complaining about stuff like this and ME3 is useless and meaningless.  This thread is mainly filled with bad and one-sided speculations to be constructive in the 1st place.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:26 .


#135
sistersafetypin

sistersafetypin
  • Members
  • 2 413 messages

shurikenmanta wrote...

Maybe we should start the Dead Horse theory...

Or maybe the '5000 Threads Aren't Enough' theory.


We already have. Hence the new threads. Because an ending this bad, deserves it

#136
Blueprotoss

Blueprotoss
  • Members
  • 3 378 messages

sistersafetypin wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

Maybe we should start the Dead Horse theory...

Or maybe the '5000 Threads Aren't Enough' theory.


We already have. Hence the new threads. Because an ending this bad, deserves it

Yet there are a lot of bad endings including games while ME3 gets thrown in their based on some of the "fans" being angry since they didn't get what they wanted.  Beating a dead horse is meaningless just like trying to use opinions as facts.

#137
t_i_e_

t_i_e_
  • Members
  • 394 messages
Rushed ending.

EA / Bioware forced the unfinished product out the door. The interviews say they originally wanted more then three endings ,etc but it looks like they pushed it out the door and instead now have false advertising, unfinished product and had to show horn in a critical character at the last minute but decided to charge people for it. What a sad mess.

#138
string3r

string3r
  • Members
  • 461 messages
The ending was rushed. If Bioware had say an extra month or so of development time then they might have not made such a poorly written mess.

#139
Blueprotoss

Blueprotoss
  • Members
  • 3 378 messages

t_i_e_ wrote...

Rushed ending.

EA / Bioware forced the unfinished product out the door. The interviews say they originally wanted more then three endings ,etc but it looks like they pushed it out the door and instead now have false advertising, unfinished product and had to show horn in a critical character at the last minute but decided to charge people for it. What a sad mess.

If ME3 was really rushed that it would have been produced and developed alongside ME2, which means ME2 would be rushed then.  Btw the false advertisement was faked based on how most of those claims were pulled after the EC's release.

string3r wrote...

The ending was rushed. If Bioware had say an extra month or so of development time then they might have not made such a poorly written mess.

Which this would be a contradiction and an assumption. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:35 .


#140
sistersafetypin

sistersafetypin
  • Members
  • 2 413 messages

Blueprotoss wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

Maybe we should start the Dead Horse theory...

Or maybe the '5000 Threads Aren't Enough' theory.


We already have. Hence the new threads. Because an ending this bad, deserves it

Yet there are a lot of bad endings including games while ME3 gets thrown in their based on some of the "fans" being angry since they didn't get what they wanted.  Beating a dead horse is meaningless just like trying to use opinions as facts.


There are a lot of bad endings based on individual opinion. But this bad ending was hated to such a degree that it was in Bioware's best interest to fix it. Because a bad ending on an amazing 10/10 game is somewhat bearable; A bad ending on a sequal to a trilogy is also one thing. 

But an attrocious ending, on top of a buggy game, that adds multiplayer and makes it necessary to get the God Shep ending....

There are so  many ways this game can be destructed in our quest to figure out how and why the Mass Effect Series ended so badly. And it is our RIGHT as paying customers and as people who used to throw our money at Bioware. To use their boards to show our dissatisfaction.

une probleme?

#141
sistersafetypin

sistersafetypin
  • Members
  • 2 413 messages

Blueprotoss wrote...

t_i_e_ wrote...

Rushed ending.

EA / Bioware forced the unfinished product out the door. The interviews say they originally wanted more then three endings ,etc but it looks like they pushed it out the door and instead now have false advertising, unfinished product and had to show horn in a critical character at the last minute but decided to charge people for it. What a sad mess.

If ME3 was really rushed that it would have been produced and developed alongside ME2, which means ME2 would be rushed then.  Btw the false advertisement was faked based on how most of those claims were pulled after the EC's release.


You are extremely gullible. Those words about not having an ABC ending came from an interview. They were taken down, because companies don't like to leave evidence of their lies

#142
Blueprotoss

Blueprotoss
  • Members
  • 3 378 messages

sistersafetypin wrote...

There are a lot of bad endings based on individual opinion. But this bad ending was hated to such a degree that it was in Bioware's best interest to fix it. Because a bad ending on an amazing 10/10 game is somewhat bearable; A bad ending on a sequal to a trilogy is also one thing. 

But an attrocious ending, on top of a buggy game, that adds multiplayer and makes it necessary to get the God Shep ending....

There are so  many ways this game can be destructed in our quest to figure out how and why the Mass Effect Series ended so badly. And it is our RIGHT as paying customers and as people who used to throw our money at Bioware. To use their boards to show our dissatisfaction.

une probleme?
 

It seems like you're pulling a straw-mann here based on how ME3 was just another ending in a long list that a small group of "fans" complained about. This has happened with RE5, FF7, FF10, F13, FF13-2, Starcraft 
2, Warcraft 3, Halo 2, Halo 3, Gears 3, Deus Ex, Deus Ex: Human Revoltion, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, ME1, ME2, DA, DA2, KotOR, and KotOR2 just to name a few.

sistersafetypin wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

t_i_e_ wrote...

Rushed ending.

EA / Bioware forced the unfinished product out the door. The interviews say they originally wanted more then three endings ,etc but it looks like they pushed it out the door and instead now have false advertising, unfinished product and had to show horn in a critical character at the last minute but decided to charge people for it. What a sad mess.

If ME3 was really rushed that it would have been produced and developed alongside ME2, which means ME2 would be rushed then.  Btw the false advertisement was faked based on how most of those claims were pulled after the EC's release.


You are extremely gullible. Those words about not having an ABC ending came from an interview. They were taken down, because companies don't like to leave evidence of their lies

If I was gullible then I would be you especially when most of the Retake leaders that filled those claims pulled those same claims after the EC was released. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:44 .


#143
mauro2222

mauro2222
  • Members
  • 4 236 messages

Blueprotoss wrote...

If ME3 was really rushed that it would have been produced and developed alongside ME2, which means ME2 would be rushed then.


No, because ME2 didn't suffer from lack of polishment in huge aspects of gameplay and storyline.

We already had this discussion, the game is rushed due to the release of an unfinished product.

#144
Blueprotoss

Blueprotoss
  • Members
  • 3 378 messages

mauro2222 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

If ME3 was really rushed that it would have been produced and developed alongside ME2, which means ME2 would be rushed then.


No, because ME2 didn't suffer from lack of polishment in huge aspects of gameplay and storyline.

We already had this discussion, the game is rushed due to the release of an unfinished product.

Thats a red herring especially when ME2 was critcized with lack of polish in its gameplay and story with its original launch.
 
Yet thats a straw-mann when some people are talking about ME3 because its all about them having way too high of expectations.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:47 .


#145
mauro2222

mauro2222
  • Members
  • 4 236 messages

Blueprotoss wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

If ME3 was really rushed that it would have been produced and developed alongside ME2, which means ME2 would be rushed then.


No, because ME2 didn't suffer from lack of polishment in huge aspects of gameplay and storyline.

We already had this discussion, the game is rushed due to the release of an unfinished product.

Thats a red herring especially when ME2 was critcized with lack of polish in its gameplay and story with its original launch.
 
Yet thats a straw-mann when talking about ME3.


I did not said "ME2 was polished and is a masterpiece"...

But ME2 pales in comparison.

Modifié par mauro2222, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:56 .


#146
AresKeith

AresKeith
  • Members
  • 34 128 messages

Blueprotoss wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

If ME3 was really rushed that it would have been produced and developed alongside ME2, which means ME2 would be rushed then.


No, because ME2 didn't suffer from lack of polishment in huge aspects of gameplay and storyline.

We already had this discussion, the game is rushed due to the release of an unfinished product.

Thats a red herring especially when ME2 was critcized with lack of polish in its gameplay and story with its original launch.
 
Yet thats a straw-mann when talking about ME3.


ME2 only real problem was the RPG element being dumped down

and Bioware even admitted that they were rushed

#147
The Heretic of Time

The Heretic of Time
  • Members
  • 5 612 messages

Blueprotoss wrote...

Speculation isn't evidence while its just some people being hard to please based on ME being a choice focused trilogy and their expectations being way too high.  Btw there are a couple conficts in the Witcher 2 based on the Witcher endings while complaining about stuff like this and ME3 is useless and meaningless.  This thread is mainly filled with bad and one-sided speculations to be constructive in the 1st place.


I have no idea what you just said. How about you try again, this time with proper English grammar, structure and punctuation?

If I understand correctly, you say we are just speculating and hard to please?

And what is is that you said about The Witcher? You completely lost me there mate. I have no idea what you're trying to say.

#148
GreyLycanTrope

GreyLycanTrope
  • Members
  • 12 709 messages

sistersafetypin wrote...

There are a lot of bad endings based on individual opinion. But this bad ending was hated to such a degree that it was in Bioware's best interest to fix it. Because a bad ending on an amazing 10/10 game is somewhat bearable; A bad ending on a sequal to a trilogy is also one thing. 

But an attrocious ending, on top of a buggy game, that adds multiplayer and makes it necessary to get the God Shep ending....

There are so  many ways this game can be destructed in our quest to figure out how and why the Mass Effect Series ended so badly. And it is our RIGHT as paying customers and as people who used to throw our money at Bioware. To use their boards to show our dissatisfaction.

une probleme?

Well said

#149
The Heretic of Time

The Heretic of Time
  • Members
  • 5 612 messages

Blueprotoss wrote...

Thats a red herring especially when ME2 was critcized with lack of polish in its gameplay and story with its original launch.
 
Yet thats a straw-mann when some people are talking about ME3 because its all about them having way too high of expectations.


If you read this thread you'll see that most of us have came ot the conclusion that ME3 is so bad because ME2 was not that good either.

Mass Effect 2 already dropped the ball when it comes to story and plot. Most of us just didn't realize it back then. But with the release of ME3 is became painfully obvious that the writers of Mass Effect wrote themselves into a corner, and now they had to jump through hoops to tie everything up and bring this story to an end. They did a ****** poor job at it and the result is a game that is excellent in it's gameplay, but extremely bad in it's plot/story and execution.

Yes, maybe some of us did indeed have too high expectations. After a mediocre ME2 we should have realized that ME3 would also be mediocre at best. Most of us didn't realize how mediocre ME2 is and therefor didn't have realistic expectations for ME3. However, I want to add that when I saw the terrible leaked script of ME3, my expectations went from 'very high' to 'below zero'. When I saw that abomination of a script I already knew I shouldn't expect too much from ME3. Little did I know that the actual execution would be even worse than I expected from the leaked script. The vent kid, the nightmares and the Starbrat are just mind-numbing bad.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 17 juillet 2012 - 11:01 .


#150
Ticonderoga117

Ticonderoga117
  • Members
  • 6 751 messages

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Thats a red herring especially when ME2 was critcized with lack of polish in its gameplay and story with its original launch.
 
Yet thats a straw-mann when some people are talking about ME3 because its all about them having way too high of expectations.


Mass Effect 2 already dropped the ball when it comes to story and plot. Most of us just didn't realize it back then. But with the release of ME3 is became painfully obvious that the writers of Mass Effect wrote themselves into a corner, and now they had to jump through hoops to tie everything up and bring this story to an end.


I still enjoy the hell out of ME2's story. Curb-stomp Reaper proxies into the dirt, allowing you to build up a team of badasses to fight the Reapers later.

It's just ME3's fault for not doing a dang thing with it.