329 réponses à ce sujet

[RaggieRags]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

They started hanging out with the rough crowd in Edmonton...?

More like Redwood City.

[Renmiri1]

Realmzmaster wrote...

 Actually the whole video game market except for mobile is experiencing a down turn from PC to console. The day of the $60 game has come and gone. There are a few exceptions, but the market as a whole is soft. 

investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/news/article.asp 

games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/video-game-industry-dying-175530304.html

The outlook is not as rosy as developers and publishers would like.  Providence Equity which owns 61% (convertible perferred stock of $450 million) of ZeniMax Media parent of  Bethesda Softworks was shopping  its share in the company.

Blizzard, owner of the most sucessful gaming IP of the decade is up for sale (Activision). Their parent company Vivendi is basically being forced to sell them because stock market investors aren't happy with the performance of WoW. And bear in mind this is the most sucessful IP of the entire industry. They have had no EC / ending fiasco, no DA2 controversy and the investors still feel they are not going to sell well and don't want to invest on it. If that doesn't tell you the entire gaming industry is on a downturn nothing will 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 19 août 2012 - 02:11 .

[Realmzmaster]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

 Actually the whole video game market except for mobile is experiencing a down turn from PC to console. The day of the $60 game has come and gone. There are a few exceptions, but the market as a whole is soft. 

investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/news/article.asp 

games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/video-game-industry-dying-175530304.html

The outlook is not as rosy as developers and publishers would like.  Providence Equity which owns 61% (convertible perferred stock of $450 million) of ZeniMax Media parent of  Bethesda Softworks was shopping  its share in the company.

Blizzard, owner of the most sucessful gaming IP of the decade is up for sale (Activision). Their parent company Vivendi is basically being forced to sell them because stock market investors aren't happy with the performance of WoW. And bear in mind this is the most sucessful IP of the entire industry. They have had no EC / ending fiasco, no DA2 controversy and the investors still feel they are not going to sell well and don't want to invest on it. If that doesn't tell you the entire gaming industry is on a downturn nothing will 

The economy is part of the problem with many people still unemployed. People are taking a close look at their budgets and cutting where they can. Entertainment dollars rely on disposable income. If your disposable income is tight then dollars spent on entertainment will decrease. Other factors come into consideration do you take the family , significant other out to dinner and a movie or do you spend the money on that new game? 
Do you put gas in the car or buy the new game? Necessities are considered first. 
Maybe you have money enough for one of the games you want to buy but not the others.
Some people pull out the old Monopoly sets, Life games, Sorry! etc. Replay old games rather than spend on new ones.
Investors want to see a return on the money they invested. No one can hold on to stock that starts taking a deep decline in value. If the stock is declining in the market place because of missed projections in terms of profit or outright losses that affects a company's ability to raise capital. 
That capital is used to fuel new development. Even one of Bethesda Softworks owners which had a very successful game in Skyrim are seeking to sell their share in the parent company. Now Blizzard-Activision is up for sell. 

Some independents are also feeling the pinch when it comes to securing loans. Kickstarter is a good way for some game developers to raise money, but it still depends on disposable income. Those who give funds to a kickstarter project are like investors they expect a return on their money in the form of a game. How well that will work out remains to be seen.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 19 août 2012 - 01:17 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I personally think that publicly traded companies are a bad idea for game developers/publishers, mostly since the long development cycles required to make a good game (or even an average game), coupled with the incredibly cyclic nature of revenue with releases and holiday numbers is not usual for most investors to be able to handle. They want steady profits and revenue streams, not long stretches of low sales followed by a tumultuous release date.

With the movie industry, you only have a few big film studios which release all of the movies throughout the year. In the gaming industry, you see this as well, but the releases are so few and the sales are so low that only a few games hit the 'big time' as far as investors are concerned.

The industry could greatly benefit from A) privatizing the stock ownership, so that value of the company doesn't fluctuate wildly after an article gets posted on Seeking Alpha and/or development tools that focus on streamlining and reducing the development cycle. The new Unreal Engine 4, besides being a graphic powerhouse, was designed from the ground up to require as little programming involvement as possible. Instead, artists, developers and writers can implement features, scenes, interactivity and behavior all while in the concept stages, hardly ever needing to send items to the programming side for creation. If this promise proves to be true, then this could revolutionize the gaming industry, by reducing the huge staffing requirements for AAA games and also leveling the playing field for indie developers to create games that have unique play styles and features, despite not having an army of programmers to code their vision for the game.

It is a down-and-out time for the industry, but the same could be said for a lot industries. Such times require a commitment to quality to keep your consumers engaged and novel approaches to your problems. Being strapped for cash as a company is not the time to begin offending your customer base, as even if these practices let you survive the lean times, a customer scorned is one who does not easily forget. Getting an extra $10 for Day One DLC should not take precedence for never being able to sell another customer your $60 product ever again.

[Realmzmaster]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I agree with most of what you say, but some of the companies being mentioned are privately owned companies like ZeniMax Media which owns Bethesda Softworks. ZeniMax Media was a shell compnay created by the two principals of Bethesda Softworks as way to secure capital so that Bethesda Softworks could continue developing games. Providence Equity were the ones to provide the capital. They want a return on their investment and are seeking to sell while the time may be right.
Bethesda has just had a hit game, so this may be the time. The question is do potential buyers see any worth given a soft market.

[Renmiri1]

IMHO the gaming industry is too new and investors are just scared and unfamiliar with it. The movie and music industry are older and have already figured out a way to make money without killing the golden egg laying goose that creates the good stuff. Those industries chew up new talent and spit out bland commercial junk but they still have an infrastructure to allow real talent and creativity to survive. Gaming publishers like EA are doing the chewing up but are not being able to come up with new talent, they only kill all the talent they buy. Investors can see that and get skittish.

[Fast Jimmy]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I agree with most of what you say, but some of the companies being mentioned are privately owned companies like ZeniMax Media which owns Bethesda Softworks. ZeniMax Media was a shell compnay created by the two principals of Bethesda Softworks as way to secure capital so that Bethesda Softworks could continue developing games. Providence Equity were the ones to provide the capital. They want a return on their investment and are seeking to sell while the time may be right.
Bethesda has just had a hit game, so this may be the time. The question is do potential buyers see any worth given a soft market.

I do agree, but investment firms are almost categorically in for the long haul. There are no people investing and flipping stocks, no people getting twitchy after pre-release photos indicate that only one race will be playable, or that the NCAA is pulling the exclusivity rights for a franchise. When you are a publicly traded company, you expose yourself to a wider market's investment money, but also a wider market's whims.

An investment firm like Providence looks at investments in terms of years and decades. They investment almost as heavily in 10 or 20 year bond markets as they do individual stocks. Such long term thinking is good for the gaming industry, which can take a decade from when a sequel is announced until it is released. It also eliminates their constant need to make a quick buck. Zenimax's DLC policies are very moderate and sensible from what I have observed, offering quality DLC for games like FO3/NV, Skyrim and how it appears (so far) with Dishonored, with only cosmetic/class DLC to be released Day One (which I don't have a problem with, as long as it is not story Day One DLC). 

When Skyrim came out, you didn't see a Day One DLC to "find out the true history behind the Dark Brotherhood and join their ranks" being toted with Signature Editions or available for $10 on release day. Despite the fact that this would have nothing to do with the main dragon/Alduin plot, could be ignored and not felt any impact to the overall game. But the Dark Brotherhood is the single most popular faction to join and play in TES games since Daggerfall (if memory serve me correctly) and has some of the most enjoyed lore and quests. So yes, Bethesda/Zenimax/Providence Equity could have said "well, with this four/five year long development cycle, we need to realize more profits - make the Dark Brotherhood quests Day One DLC!" But they didn't. Because Providence realizes they aren't the video game experts and should not meddle, Zenimax realizes it shouldn't dictate selling or design practices since they are not the developer and Bethesda knows how to make games its fans love and that can still attract new players.

I'm not going to get into a discussion of if any particular person on here likes Skyrim or not (or if they thought XYZ Elder Scrolls game was better), but ten million+ sales speaks for itself. That speaks for development time, it speaks for DLC policies, it speaks for game quality, it speaks for fan satisfaction and it speaks for investor/publishier involvement in the creative process (i.e., little to none).

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 19 août 2012 - 02:01 .

[RaggieRags]

How long have they been talking about how the games industry is on downturn? 5 years now?

If a small company from Poland can release a polished RPG, sell it for 60 bucks and keep releasing free DLC without any extra monetization, Bioware has no excuses as far as I'm concerned.

[wsandista]

Could someone change "dose not" to "doesn't"? It is really starting to bother me.

Modifié par wsandista, 19 août 2012 - 04:10 .

[Mr Fixit]

wsandista wrote...

Could someone change "dose not" to "doesn't"? It is really starting to bother me.

We all have our pet peeves. Mine is the all-present and, frankly, growing trend of illiteracy when it comes to its and it's, your and you're, their and there, oh and they're, too. I devolve into a mouth-frothing proto-human Riker-esque gorilla when I come upon such writing.

Which unfortunately means I spend a good part of my day in simian form.

Modifié par Mr Fixit, 19 août 2012 - 04:26 .

[Das Tentakel]

Mr Fixit wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Could someone change "dose not" to "doesn't"? It is really starting to bother me.

We all have our pet peeves. Mine is the all-present and, frankly, growing trend of illiteracy when it comes to its and it's, your and you're, their and there, oh and they're, too. I devolve into a mouth-frothing proto-human Riker-esque gorilla when I come upon such writing.

Which unfortunately means I spend a good part of my day in simian form.

To quote G'Kar (Babylon 5): 'Well, it is an imperfect universe'.

[Mr Fixit]

Das Tentakel wrote...
To quote G'Kar (Babylon 5): 'Well, it is an imperfect universe'.

Well, it's only to be expected. It is governed by matter, energy and enlightened self-interest, after all.

(Starting my rewatch of the third season as we speak, actually).

Modifié par Mr Fixit, 19 août 2012 - 06:51 .

[Hatchetman77]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

 Actually the whole video game market except for mobile is experiencing a down turn from PC to console. The day of the $60 game has come and gone. There are a few exceptions, but the market as a whole is soft. 

investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/news/article.asp 

games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/video-game-industry-dying-175530304.html

The outlook is not as rosy as developers and publishers would like.  Providence Equity which owns 61% (convertible perferred stock of $450 million) of ZeniMax Media parent of  Bethesda Softworks was shopping  its share in the company.

Blizzard, owner of the most sucessful gaming IP of the decade is up for sale (Activision). Their parent company Vivendi is basically being forced to sell them because stock market investors aren't happy with the performance of WoW. And bear in mind this is the most sucessful IP of the entire industry. They have had no EC / ending fiasco, no DA2 controversy and the investors still feel they are not going to sell well and don't want to invest on it. If that doesn't tell you the entire gaming industry is on a downturn nothing will 

WoW is in a unique position though.  While it still is number 1 it is also slowly loosing subs which it will probably never gain back.  Stockholders in Blizzard are thinking that their stock value is as about as high as it's going to get and are selling now.  Nobody buys and sells stock on what the value of the stock is right at this moment, it's based on what they feel that stock will be worth in the future.  WoW will continue being profitable for a while but that doesn't mean its stock will be.  What WoW is doing has no bearing on what the current trend of video games are.  People just see that WoW will continue to loose more and more subs as time progresses so to maximize profit they are selling their stock now while it still has some value.  If Blizzard released another game that started making waves in the industry and showed a strady increase in subs over a long period of time it's stock would bounce back and skyrocket again.

The game industry is probably in a little bit of a slump right now, but that will stabilize over time.  There was a generation that grew up on video games playing the original Nintendo Entertainment System that just never stopped playing video games throughout their twenties.  The industry grew exponentially because video games were not just for kids anymore, the demographic grew as this generation aged.  Now this generation is in their thirties, getting married and having families.  They are being removed from the market because they are too busy to play video games anymore.  Once their kids are old enough to start gaming themselves and replace their parents in the gaming market the video game industry will bounce back and stabilize. 

Modifié par Hatchetman77, 19 août 2012 - 06:54 .

[Realmzmaster]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

 Actually the whole video game market except for mobile is experiencing a down turn from PC to console. The day of the $60 game has come and gone. There are a few exceptions, but the market as a whole is soft. 

investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/news/article.asp 

games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/video-game-industry-dying-175530304.html

The outlook is not as rosy as developers and publishers would like.  Providence Equity which owns 61% (convertible perferred stock of $450 million) of ZeniMax Media parent of  Bethesda Softworks was shopping  its share in the company.

Blizzard, owner of the most sucessful gaming IP of the decade is up for sale (Activision). Their parent company Vivendi is basically being forced to sell them because stock market investors aren't happy with the performance of WoW. And bear in mind this is the most sucessful IP of the entire industry. They have had no EC / ending fiasco, no DA2 controversy and the investors still feel they are not going to sell well and don't want to invest on it. If that doesn't tell you the entire gaming industry is on a downturn nothing will 

WoW is in a unique position though.  While it still is number 1 it is also slowly loosing subs which it will probably never gain back.  Stockholders in Blizzard are thinking that their stock value is as about as high as it's going to get and are selling now.  Nobody buys and sells stock on what the value of the stock is right at this moment, it's based on what they feel that stock will be worth in the future.  WoW will continue being profitable for a while but that doesn't mean its stock will be.  What WoW is doing has no bearing on what the current trend of video games are.  People just see that WoW will continue to loose more and more subs as time progresses so to maximize profit they are selling their stock now while it still has some value.  If Blizzard released another game that started making waves in the industry and showed a strady increase in subs over a long period of time it's stock would bounce back and skyrocket again.

The game industry is probably in a little bit of a slump right now, but that will stabilize over time.  There was a generation that grew up on video games playing the original Nintendo Entertainment System that just never stopped playing video games throughout their twenties.  The industry grew exponentially because video games were not just for kids anymore, the demographic grew as this generation aged.  Now this generation is in their thirties, getting married and having families.  They are being removed from the market because they are too busy to play video games anymore.  Once their kids are old enough to start gaming themselves and replace their parents in the gaming market the video game industry will bounce back and stabilize. 

That may be true , but how long will that upturn take? Many companies may be gone before it happens both large and small. Also the new generation are headed in the direction of games on mobile platforms.  The industry may stabilize, but it will not be the same.

[Realmzmaster]

RaggieRags wrote...

How long have they been talking about how the games industry is on downturn? 5 years now?

If a small company from Poland can release a polished RPG, sell it for 60 bucks and keep releasing free DLC without any extra monetization, Bioware has no excuses as far as I'm concerned.

CD Projeckt Red S.A is not a small company. It owns G.O.G and has been the main distributor of PC games in Poland and Central Europe since 1994 (when it was known as CD Projekt Sp. z.o.o and CDP Investment Sp. z.o.o.). It is listed on the Warsaw Stock Exchange becauase it allowed a reverse takeover by the near defunct company call Optimus (Optimus was a developer of of pcs, fiscal systems and complkex IT solutions). Optimus then renamed itself CD Projekt Red S. A. .  The company translated some of Bioware's biggest hits for the Polish and Central European markets.

Where do people get the idea it is a small company?

[RaggieRags]

Realmzmaster wrote...

CD Projeckt Red S.A is not a small company.

Everything is relative. 112 employees vs. ~800 at Bioware.

The size is besides my point. There is no reason why Bioware shouldn't be able to keep up with them.

Modifié par RaggieRags, 20 août 2012 - 06:08 .

[Fisto The Sexbot]

RaggieRags wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

CD Projeckt Red S.A is not a small company.

Everything is relative. 112 employees vs. ~800 at Bioware.

The size is besides my point. There is no reason why Bioware shouldn't be able to keep up with them.

I don't think they're that small either. BioWare has a lot of people working on different projects at the same time, while CDProjekt may have used most of its team to develop the Witcher 2 at one time.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

 Actually the whole video game market except for mobile is experiencing a down turn from PC to console. The day of the $60 game has come and gone. There are a few exceptions, but the market as a whole is soft. 

investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/news/article.asp 

games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/video-game-industry-dying-175530304.html

The outlook is not as rosy as developers and publishers would like.  Providence Equity which owns 61% (convertible perferred stock of $450 million) of ZeniMax Media parent of  Bethesda Softworks was shopping  its share in the company.

Blizzard, owner of the most sucessful gaming IP of the decade is up for sale (Activision). Their parent company Vivendi is basically being forced to sell them because stock market investors aren't happy with the performance of WoW. And bear in mind this is the most sucessful IP of the entire industry. They have had no EC / ending fiasco, no DA2 controversy and the investors still feel they are not going to sell well and don't want to invest on it. If that doesn't tell you the entire gaming industry is on a downturn nothing will 

WoW is in a unique position though.  While it still is number 1 it is also slowly loosing subs which it will probably never gain back.  Stockholders in Blizzard are thinking that their stock value is as about as high as it's going to get and are selling now.  Nobody buys and sells stock on what the value of the stock is right at this moment, it's based on what they feel that stock will be worth in the future.  WoW will continue being profitable for a while but that doesn't mean its stock will be.  What WoW is doing has no bearing on what the current trend of video games are.  People just see that WoW will continue to loose more and more subs as time progresses so to maximize profit they are selling their stock now while it still has some value.  If Blizzard released another game that started making waves in the industry and showed a strady increase in subs over a long period of time it's stock would bounce back and skyrocket again.

The game industry is probably in a little bit of a slump right now, but that will stabilize over time.  There was a generation that grew up on video games playing the original Nintendo Entertainment System that just never stopped playing video games throughout their twenties.  The industry grew exponentially because video games were not just for kids anymore, the demographic grew as this generation aged.  Now this generation is in their thirties, getting married and having families.  They are being removed from the market because they are too busy to play video games anymore.  Once their kids are old enough to start gaming themselves and replace their parents in the gaming market the video game industry will bounce back and stabilize. 

Personally, I'm not in my thirties or married, but I've kinda lost interest in video games at the moment. Games are just, on the decline, I think.

[Kidd]

RaggieRags wrote...

How long have they been talking about how the games industry is on downturn? 5 years now?

If a small company from Poland can release a polished RPG, sell it for 60 bucks and keep releasing free DLC without any extra monetization, Bioware has no excuses as far as I'm concerned.

BioWare does not own a digital distribution service (gog) that prints them money to take forever on each game. Their publishing company has such a service (Origin) but it's not like all of Origin's money will fit into BioWare's pocket - EA have many more mouths to feed.

Speaking solely of myself, I've spent a lot more money on gog than on Origin even though I bear no ill will toward Origin at all. So even though I've so far not played the Witcher, I've given CDPR more money through alternative revenue streams than I have BioWare whom I'm a huge fan of. It's a little funny how everything works, really.

[RaggieRags]

We could discuss how big or small CD Projekt is until the cows come home, but all that is besides my point (and off-topic). My point is that Bioware has so many things going for it, yet it has released two games on a row now that suffered from a too short dev time and it's general reputation is at an all-time low. Meanwhile more modest companies as well as Bethesda make polished RPGs that review and sell well. Bioware's problem is not the environment.

[jbrand2002uk]

Mr Fixit wrote...

Das Tentakel wrote...
To quote G'Kar (Babylon 5): 'Well, it is an imperfect universe'.

Well, it's only to be expected. It is governed by matter, energy and enlightened self-interest, after all.

(Starting my rewatch of the third season as we speak, actually).

Got the ultimate edition 52 DVD boxset myself best Sci Fi series around ( prepares for flame war with Trekkies)

[Jerrybnsn]

RaggieRags wrote...

Bioware has so many things going for it, yet it has released two games on a row now that suffered from a too short dev time and it's general reputation is at an all-time low.

Is that the consensus now for the problem with ME3?  Too short of a Dev time?  I thought ME3 was a great game for it's two year cycle, I found the problem with the game was clipping out the beginning and the end of the game for dlc to make more money.  Greed hurt ME3, not a short dev. time.

[Fast Jimmy]

I think what hurt ME3 the most was Drew Karpshyn going to work on TOR, then leaving Bioware altogether. His story-telling and awareness of lore puts other's artistic integrity to shame.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

RaggieRags wrote...

Bioware has so many things going for it, yet it has released two games on a row now that suffered from a too short dev time and it's general reputation is at an all-time low.

Is that the consensus now for the problem with ME3?  Too short of a Dev time?  I thought ME3 was a great game for it's two year cycle, I found the problem with the game was clipping out the beginning and the end of the game for dlc to make more money.  Greed hurt ME3, not a short dev. time.

Part of the dev time went into MP. That caused less time for SP content. The ending was hit most by that.