329 réponses à ce sujet

[wowpwnslol]

Stop blaming Bioware - it's EA who is to blame. The moment EA took over, Bio went downhill. DA:O was their last hurray, what followed after were attempts to appease EA and maximize profit by designing "RPG" games for ADD console 12 year olds.

Modifié par wowpwnslol, 25 juillet 2012 - 01:31 .

[wsandista]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Stop blaming Bioware - it's EA who is to blame. The moment EA took over, Bio went downhill. DA:O was their last hurray, what followed after were attempts to appease EA and maximize profit by designing "RPG" games for ADD console 12 year olds.

Bioware is EA. While I am no fan of EA, they aren't some diabolical entity that exists solely to torment fans of RPGs. It isn't like there was a mass exodus of the "true" Bioware employees when EA bought them and EA shills were installed.

BTW ME was catering more to the console market, and was created before EA purchased Bioware. Please avoid starting a platform war. Trust me[I played DAO on both console(birthday present) and PC], the console players of DA aren't exactly stoked about DA2 either.

[wsandista]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

snip

I agree with you completely. DAO was the better game, both in design(IMO) and implementation. I would love for Bioware to just say "We really ****ed up with DA2 and will now make a true successor to DAO", but that isn't going to happen. DA2 is the game Bioware wanted to make and is what the DA franchise will look like. If anything, they will give us a few token throwbacks(companion armor customization, slightly slower combat, less ridiculous attacks) but go even further in the direction DA2 went in, kind of like what ME3 did actually(in regards to gameplay).

EDIT: This post is also an answer to you LobselVith8.

Modifié par wsandista, 25 juillet 2012 - 03:18 .

[macin]

It would make me happy though.

[wsandista]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

wsandista wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

snip

I agree with you completely. DAO was the better game, both in design(IMO) and implementation. I would love for Bioware to just say "We really ****ed up with DA2 and will now make a true successor to DAO", but that isn't going to happen. DA2 is the game Bioware wanted to make and is what the DA franchise will look like. If anything, they will give us a few token throwbacks(companion armor customization, slightly slower combat, less ridiculous attacks) but go even further in the direction DA2 went in, kind of like what ME3 did actually(in regards to gameplay).

 That would make me sad....

It does make me sad. Obsidian looks like they will make some good role-playing games though.

[Killjoy Cutter]

DA3 will have online MP, and require Origin, and therefore never be worth buying.

[Killjoy Cutter]

What defines an RPG?

The ability to play a role -- the character aspect.

It's not about numbers and rules and rolls. It's a role-playing game, not a roll-playing game.

Now, many people don't get that, and treat them as very complex open-space board-games -- and it's that approach which was first adapted to computer games in those early "RPGs". Many people who've only played something like D&D in that adversarial board-game manner, or who've only been exposed to the term "RPG" as it's misused in the computer gaming industry, believe that "RPGs" are defined by customizing attributes and skills and gear for best effect.

Series like Fallout, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and so on, changed that. You could, to the extent allowable by the medium, define and control who your character was. They brought elements of actual roleplaying games to the computer. In ME1 and ME2, who Shepard was depended on the choices that you, as the player, made. In DA:O, you defined so much about the character.

Player agency was king when it came to the character.

Now, after DA2 and ME3, it appears that Bioware wants to go off into the "interactive cinematic experience" direction, which has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with roleplaying games. Player agency has its heart ripped out on the altar of the the writers' need to indulge in their "art".

Back at the tabletop, in a roleplaying game, the last thing you want is a gamemaster so in love with and bound to his own story, that he has no room for the players to change things and make things happen of their own volition -- the ending they want is the ending you're going to get, no matter what. And yet Bioware has turned into "that guy".

Like that GM, maybe Bioware should just go write a book or make a movie.

[Killjoy Cutter]

I have given up on everything Bioware.

Or rather, EAware.

Bioware is clearly just a label slapped on more of the extruded gaming product that EA has been crapping out for years. Remember, EA's most successful franchise is the yearly reselling of the same basic NFL game over and over to the same customers.

[PhillyB]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Now, after DA2, ME2, and ME3 it appears that Bioware wants to go off into the "interactive cinematic experience" direction, which has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with roleplaying games. Player agency has its heart ripped out on the altar of the the writers' need to indulge in their "art".

Err, Fixed?

[fchopin]

Bioware has stopped getting it years ago.

Bioware has a plan of their own and that is what they are following and how they base their games.
I don’t like it but it’s their money and they should do what their vision is telling them.

[Uccio]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

...Now, after DA2 and ME3, it appears that Bioware wants to go off into the "interactive cinematic experience" direction, which has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with roleplaying games. Player agency has its heart ripped out on the altar of the the writers' need to indulge in their "art". 

The best thing about this still is that I can decide as a consumer where I will put my money. Now it seems that CDproject will be getting my next 50eur. I do hope in some level that DA series will return but I don´t get my hopes too up over it anymore.

Modifié par Ukki, 26 juillet 2012 - 10:52 .

[LinksOcarina]

Ukki wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

...Now, after DA2 and ME3, it appears that Bioware wants to go off into the "interactive cinematic experience" direction, which has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with roleplaying games. Player agency has its heart ripped out on the altar of the the writers' need to indulge in their "art". 

The best thing about this still is that I can decide as a consumer where I will put my money. Now it seems that CDproject will be getting my next 50eur. I do hope in some level that DA series will return but I don´t get my hopes too up over it anymore.

But they are making Cyberpunk...CYBERPUNK.

It will tank hard, I promise you that, especially if they plan on retaining the whole "feel" of Cyberpunk.

As for the cinematic direction...they did that in Baldurs Gate and no one really complained then. So really, BioWare has been doing this for years, and it works in their RPGs for a reason.

I just think people are not enjoying the new take on mechanics, which is weird...

[LinksOcarina]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I have given up on everything Bioware.

Or rather, EAware.

Bioware is clearly just a label slapped on more of the extruded gaming product that EA has been crapping out for years. Remember, EA's most successful franchise is the yearly reselling of the same basic NFL game over and over to the same customers.

Who buy it every year because they like the game, and like the changes made to it. Some of them, at least.

That is an apple/orange comparison really. If BioWare made the same game over and over, you (and by "you" I mean fans of their games) would gobble it up like candy I bet. But if they change stuff in it, it gets rejected it seems. Well, that was the M.O for Dragon Age II, Mass Effect is just a cluster**** that has gone nuclear for some reason. But I digress.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 26 juillet 2012 - 10:58 .

[Silas7]

jillabender wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote…

I also completely agree.
But I also, at the same time, think Bioware is screwing up. I also think they're listening to the wrong things, and not listening to the right things. It works both ways.

However, an important point is probably that you can't really demand from a game designer, a development team, that they should do something they don't understand or believe in. So, yes, Bioware has to make their own call in the end. Let's hope they get it right enough.

I get where you're coming from – I had fun playing DA2, but I also felt that it didn't live up to it's potential. And I can't help but find that frustrating, because I know that Bioware is capable of so much more. But, as you say, the best thing we can do is try to be both direct and civil in our feedback, and hope that the developers will use their best judgment.

Bam! 'Nuff said 

[Killjoy Cutter]

PhillyB wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Now, after DA2, ME2, and ME3 it appears that Bioware wants to go off into the "interactive cinematic experience" direction, which has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with roleplaying games. Player agency has its heart ripped out on the altar of the the writers' need to indulge in their "art".

Err, Fixed?

No, and don't misquote me.

[Killjoy Cutter]

http://www.forbes.co...ass-effect-3/2/

http://www.forbes.co...-good-business/

http://www.forbes.co...e-far-too-late/

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 27 juillet 2012 - 04:49 .

[Zubie]

LinksOcarina wrote...

It will tank hard, I promise you that, especially if they plan on retaining the whole "feel" of Cyberpunk.

Pretty bold statement for a game you know nothing about.

Modifié par easygame88, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:32 .

[Megakoresh]

DuskWarden wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

We barely know anything at all. A voiced protagonist does not DA2 make.

This. Although we know a little more than that. Things we know so far as far as I'm aware:

- Voiced Protagonist and paraphrases are in.
- Full text pop ups as well as paraphrases isn't happening.
- We can change our companions' gear, but each armour set will 'adapt' to that companion.
- The protagonist isn't the Warden or Hawke
- It will probably be set in Orlais.

Still, some more details would be nice.

Also, pre-release, DAO had this really great and detailed FAQ 
http://dragonage.bio...m/dao/game/faq/ 

Reading that is what made me buy the game. Hopefully something similar can be made for DA3.

Yeah, I agree with that. If there is anything I actually liked about Dragon Age 2, it was the voiced protagonist. In regards to combat, it was just awful. Origin's combat was just as awful, but unlike DA2, dialogue and characters well made up for it.

Something you gotta understand about "action-oriented" is that it is skill-based. This means: looks at Kingdoms of Amaleur: Reckoning.

As for the Orlais setting, well... I am not so sure that a Dragon Age game would benefit from being set in France, but then again, it's about characters and dialogue and not about setting. All i want are characters from DA: Origins brought back (Namely Leliana, Morigan and Alistair and Shale/Oghren perhaps) and some kind of explanation to Witch Hunt DLC.

Modifié par Megakoresh, 27 juillet 2012 - 08:11 .

[Uccio]

LinksOcarina wrote...

But they are making Cyberpunk...CYBERPUNK.

It will tank hard, I promise you that, especially if they plan on retaining the whole "feel" of Cyberpunk.

As for the cinematic direction...they did that in Baldurs Gate and no one really complained then. So really, BioWare has been doing this for years, and it works in their RPGs for a reason.

I just think people are not enjoying the new take on mechanics, which is weird...

Well you know, you take what you can get. Atleast it will be closer to a rpg than DA2 was. The cinematics itself is not a problem. I don´t mind a clip here and there (even DAO) but when the game is mostly ongoing video where you can only choose "yes" while being either ****, douchebag or moron is just too much for me. That is what happened to ME3 too and I do not spend my money on semi-interactive cartoons.

Modifié par Ukki, 27 juillet 2012 - 02:36 .

[ItsTheTruth]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Can BioWare not think for themselves anymore? It would be like Bungie saying "we're checking [Fallout 3] out aggressively" just because it has guns in it! Skyrim and Dragon Age are so far apart, they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. Totally different games.

Apparently not... I remember in a DA2 preview, a dev was saying: "So we decided to change the graphic style of DA:O, so we looked long and hard at other franchises like World of Warcraft and drew inspiration from those."

Really? Bioware used to have the best artists (real ones, not hack writers doing "art'), and games like KOTOR and Jade Empire were perfect visually, with a consistent and wonderful art style. Where did these people go? Because after looking at WoW (which is a fine game), Bioware made the ugly brown Kirkwall, horrific elves and comical Darkspawn.

[The Twilight God]

JasonPogo wrote...

 So when DA2 hit the fans flooded the forums and said the combat was horrible and boring and to easy.  Then Mike Laidlaw said we all just didn't get how great it all was and we should turn up the difficulty.  Then ME3 comes out and the fans come out in force to say how hirrible the ending was.  So Casy Hudson comes out and tells us we just don't get how great it all is but they will provide further explination for those who need it.

Bioware if people are finding what you are doing lacking maybe its not our fault but yours.  Just saying.  And everything we we are hearing about DA3 makes it sound like DA2.5.  You just don't get it...

I'm probably going to pass on DA3. They'll be free day-1 DLC w/pre-order, I will not be pre-ordering any Bioware games, I'm not paying extra for day-1 DLC later and I will not buy an incomplete game. They have lost the credibility necessary to expect me to pre-order. After the ME3 ending fiasco I think I"m pretty much done with them altogether to be honest.

They don't get it and never will. Too much ego and inability to process legitimate criticism. They think what they want is more important than what the people buying their games want. It's quite funny when you think about it.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 28 juillet 2012 - 04:59 .

[Androme]

I don't care about gameplay mechanics, RPGs are all about the story. And if they succeed in that department, then it's a good game.

[Killjoy Cutter]

There is a limit to how bad or strange the gameplay can be before it makes even a good RPG unplayable.

[wsandista]

Androme wrote...

I don't care about gameplay mechanics, RPGs are all about the story. And if they succeed in that department, then it's a good game.

I always thought role-playing games were about role-playing. That is why Skyrim, a game with little focus on story, is an rpg, because it allows role-playing.