268 réponses à ce sujet

[djarlaks10]

Chewin3 wrote...

Yeah, Shepard has shown that his leadership capabilities have been extraordinary throughout the games...

Shepard solves problems with his guns, asking stupid questions, and everyone seem to "uuh" and "aah" to him for it. What's the reason that everyone follows him? B/c he has that 'fire in him that no one else has'? Pff.

Shepard is a soldier. Maybe the best, but he nothing more than that. He doesn't show any form of intellect, strategy, and his leadership capabilites are pitiful at best.

Yeah, right, because everybody and their mom could have brokered peace between Geth and Quarians. Also, even my cat could have kicked Collectors' asses in their own base. Right?

[Chewin]

djarlaks10 wrote...
Yeah, right, because everybody and their mom could have brokered peace between Geth and Quarians. Also, even my cat could have kicked Collectors' asses in their own base. Right?

Yes, b/c Shepard achieved peace between the Geth all by himself, without the aid of Legion, Tali, and the other Admirals...

He achieved peace by killing Geth, taking down their dreadnought, killing more Geth on Rannoch, killing a Reaper there as well, and managed to call of the Quarians from doing something incredibly stupid with the aid of Tali and Koris. And it was thanks to Legion that the Geth approved of peace.

Shepard whiping out the Collectors just proves even more that Shepard is a good killer and solves problem the easiest by simply killing. That doesn't make Shepard intelligent or anything between, it just proves that he is a brute that can kill stuff and being good at it.

Yes, very impressive. If you are impressed by people like Shepard, good for you. I find them ridiculous.

[mothbanquet]

Chewin3 wrote...

djarlaks10 wrote...
Yeah, right, because everybody and their mom could have brokered peace between Geth and Quarians. Also, even my cat could have kicked Collectors' asses in their own base. Right?

Yes, b/c Shepard achieved peace between the Geth all by himself, without the aid of Legion, Tali, and the other Admirals...

He achieved peace by killing Geth, taking down their dreadnought, killing more Geth on Rannoch, killing a Reaper there as well, and managed to call of the Quarians from doing something incredibly stupid with the aid of Tali and Koris. And it was thanks to Legion that the Geth approved of peace.

Shepard whiping out the Collectors just proves even more that Shepard is a good killer and solves problem the easiest by simply killing. That doesn't make Shepard intelligent or anything between, it just proves that he is a brute that can kill stuff and being good at it.

Yes, very impressive. If you are impressed by people like Shepard, good for you. I find them ridiculous.

I just love on-topic discussions.

[zambot]

Xellith wrote...

His introduction is my biggest peeve. I have no idea who he is and why he follows me around like a lost puppy.

This nails it for me.  I'm pretty sure for every squad mate I had in ME1 and ME2 I met them as strangers and came to know and understand them.  Vega is introduced as if he and I already have some sort of past together.  Where ME1 and ME2 did an excellent job making me feel like I was Shepard, ME3 stumbles quite a bit making me feel like I had to play a character (Shepard) that wasn't me.

Vega is the first instance of this (you will roleplay a Shepard that knows this guy and likes him)
The child is another instance of this (you will roleplay a Shepard that is really upset by the death of this random kid)
etc.

That's why I don't like Vega.  Plus the fact that I felt like I had enough squad mates from ME1 and ME2 to draw from and I didn't understand why I immediately needed someone new.  (Yeah sure it is possible I killed them all in ME1 and ME2 so we needed an alternate).

[Archontor]

People say human characters are boring but what about Alistair, Aveline, Anders, Bethany, Isabela, Jack, Joker, Liliana, Morrigan, Nathaniel, STEEEVE, Wyne and Zaeed. So no being a stupid hairless primate does not make them stupid boring hairless primates.

[Chewin]

^So is Geralt, Nameless One, the Warden, Adam Jensen, Sam Fisher, Nico Bellic, and many more.

[Archontor]

Chewin3 wrote...

^So is Geralt, Nameless One, the Warden, Adam Jensen, Sam Fisher, Nico Bellic, and many more.

 

Saying that Shepard is bad won't make Vega good. 

Further Shep does demonstrate genuine leadership characteristics, courage (turning round to face Ranoch!Reaper), Diplomacy (most paragon options) Tenacity (took a thanix to the face).

Whilst Shep never explains Eezo mechanics for us he demonstrates a greater capacity for philosophical and political thought (arguing the value of geth life, explaining the value in organic life to EDI, etc) which suggests intelligence.

[Genetic Destiny]

I have no problem with Vega. I didn't like the Loco nickname on my first playthrough, but other than that everything was fine as far as I knew.

[Chewin]

Archontor wrote...

Saying that Shepard is bad won't make Vega good.

Never tried to imply this.

Further Shep does demonstrate genuine leadership characteristics, courage (turning round to face Ranoch!Reaper), Diplomacy (most paragon options) Tenacity (took a thanix to the face).

When does he show exceptional leadership characteristics? As far as I'm aware, he never doesn't.

Him showing courage and tenacity only strengthens him as a brute soldier. Don't see why this would make him intellectual in any way.

As for Diplomacy, Shepard has ungodly persuasive abilities based on an idiotic morality system that makes no sense. And not once do I remember Shepard being engaged in any intelligent conversation. At best, he listens and asks questions and someone else sounds smart. The moraility system is based on charm if he is consistently paragon, or intimidation if renegade. Don't really see intelligence being used.

Whilst Shep never explains Eezo mechanics for us he demonstrates a greater capacity for philosophical and political thought (arguing the value of geth life, explaining the value in organic life to EDI, etc) which suggests intelligence.

General knowledge that basically everyone knows. There is nothing particular that he knows about or specializes in and he never gets to teach or inform others, as they all happen to know what he knows.

Modifié par Chewin3, 17 juillet 2012 - 05:21 .

[Archontor]

Sorry Chewin, my iPad can't do quotes over a certain length.

I say courage and tenacity do make a better leader because they're inspiring.

Paragon Shep (can't speak for others) demonstrates a logical argument to situations and a sense of empathy (convincing Ereba to go to Charr in ME2) and he seems to understand what will provoke a reaction in different people (the krogan scout's pep talk)

Yes, Shep relies mostly on general knowledge (though he does demonstrate an expected understanding of space travel in one conversation with a citadel shopkeeper) that isn't the point, mere knowledge of facts is somewhat arbitrary, a computer can store more facts than anyone can ever know it is the ability to relate them and form reasoned opinions off of them that demonstrates intelligence.

[Archontor]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Archontor wrote....

Whilst Shep never explains Eezo mechanics for us he demonstrates a greater capacity for philosophical and political thought (arguing the value of geth life, explaining the value in organic life to EDI, etc) which suggests intelligence.

I hope you're not trying to say that Shepards who don't like the geth are less intelligent than those who do.

 

No, I said arguing the value of geth life not arguing FOR the value of geth life. Sorry if that was unclear.

[Anvos]

I disagree with the OP.

I found Vega exactly as a thought when I first looked at him. All he really is, is a mediocre version of male shep.

Also I did find his muscles attribute to a lack intellegence. Between alliance genetherapy, training, and any in suit cervos all those muscles do is make you a bigger target zone. Can't count the number of times a cerberus centurion or cannibal got itself perferated with a sniper rifle because its bulk ment it couldn't hide properly.

Modifié par Anvos, 17 juillet 2012 - 11:42 .

[marcustheMezz]

 I don't care too much either way, the only reason I didn't really like him is that I kept getting the feeling he was a krogan replacement, I wanted Wrex back on my squad damnit!! Also he isn't a romance option for fems, I always just sort of assumed he was, what with the flirting and all, was really shocked when I found out he wasn't.

[RethenX]

I thought Vega was a pretty down to earth guy. I have no idea why people hate him so much

[Kcale.merc]

Personally I think it would have been better to have created a character like his earlier in the series, and you could see his development from a cocky punk to a reliable N7 soldier. I suppose a case could be made that this apocalyptic reality forces James to "grow up" within the plot of Mass effect 3, but personally I feel they could have done plenty with the characters they'd spent 2 games developing already rather than bringing in new faces. I think if Mass effect 1 and 2 had been available on all platforms from the start, mass effect 3 would have been somewhat of a different game without worry of alienating a newer generation of gamers (and their money).

Modifié par Kcale.merc, 18 juillet 2012 - 01:11 .

[mechalynx]

I'd have loved an option to laugh him in the face when he brings up his N7 enrollment, and then laugh some more when he says he wants Shepard to tutor him. Seriously, Vega?

I'd have loved it even more if I had the option to dump him on the Citadel after Mars.

[Krunjar]

RethenX wrote...

I thought Vega was a pretty down to earth guy. I have no idea why people hate him so much

Yeah I never really got it either. I think people compare him to jacob but honestly I don't think thats fair.

[Dusen]

I'm still trying to figure out why he was on the Normandy in the first level anyways. Where did he come from and why is he now on my ship?

EDIT: As far as I recall he didn't have much of a backstory in-game. I guess they were saving his collector-run-ins for Paragon Lost but IMO that's just plain stupid. I don't care to watch the movie, and I know a lot of others that aren't going to either, so that just leaves the James Vega we find in-game to be very 2-dimensional.

Modifié par Dusen, 18 juillet 2012 - 03:50 .

[Chewin]

Archontor wrote...
I say courage and tenacity do make a better leader because they're inspiring.

Didn't state this wasn't the case, I'm arguing that these capabilities doesn't make him intellectual, which is what I've been stating the whole time. Sure, Shepard taking down a Reaper can be very inspiring to many people, but I don't see this makes Shepard exceptional, or why anyone of his crew would look up to him for it. If not that they are selfminded themselves.

Paragon Shep (can't speak for others) demonstrates a logical argument to situations and a sense of empathy (convincing Ereba to go to Charr in ME2) and he seems to understand what will provoke a reaction in different people (the krogan scout's pep talk)

A flawed dialogue system based on charm, not intelligence. Shepard only stated "Doi, he obviously likes you, you should give a chance" and Ereba goes all like "Yeah, never thought about that". There's nothing exceptional being said from Shepard, and it only shows how easy Ereba is persuaded with little to no effort.

Same with the krogan scout. Shepard states only a badass can get back to Urdnot's camp, and the krogan goes all "I can do it!" LOL WTF!?

Yes, Shep relies mostly on general knowledge (though he does demonstrate an expected understanding of space travel in one conversation with a citadel shopkeeper) that isn't the point, mere knowledge of facts is somewhat arbitrary, a computer can store more facts than anyone can ever know it is the ability to relate them and form reasoned opinions off of them that demonstrates intelligence.

Which makes him no different from others in term of intelligence. He can kill, but should let smarter people do the talking. Oh wait, there are basically none in ME.

[Quething]

So, OP, I don't like him because he's an insubordinate disrespectful sexist sexually harassing douchebag (five words for a single personality trait, impressive; at least he's got that going for him?). Pray tell, which of your generalizations applies to me? Clearly, you've forgotten "people don't like him because they're humorless femin*zis." If you're going to hang your hat on meritless nonsense at least make sure it's the biggest pile of said nonsense possible.

[simonrana]

I'm curious what the like/hate ratio for Vega is compared to other squadmates. I suspect he's not as hated as it appears. I fully expected to hate him when I heard about him pre-release but I've ended up quite liking him. Probably my favourite human squadmate after Jack, and miles better than either VS.

[MrDavid]

James Vega was a pleasant surprise for me. I took one look at him when I played the demo and literally rolled my eyes. I expected a meat-head with Jacob-levels of boringness but he actually has a somewhat fleshed out backstory. He's a good soldier who can make tough decisions but he doesn't know if that makes him the right guy. He's better at sticking to what he knows. He reminds me of Ruthless Shepards (the ones who get their squad killed on Torfan) except he isn't as emotional resilient.
While Jacob definitely had potential, it mostly got thrown away because nothing he does in the game tells us anything about him. His loyalty mission gave me no insight into his personality. With James, we learn that there's a lot more to him than the simple generic soldier. That he prefers to keep things simple to avoid making a mistake that could get people killed.
Sure it would have been more fun to have a Krogan Squadmate, but that doesn't take away from his character. It took 3 games for me to warm up to Kaiden (okay, maybe 2 1/4), but James won me over about halfway through the one game he's in.

[nitefyre410]

Krunjar wrote...

RethenX wrote...

I thought Vega was a pretty down to earth guy. I have no idea why people hate him so much

Yeah I never really got it either. I think people compare him to jacob but honestly I don't think thats fair.
 

 

I never got  why people hated so much either...though  I agree with the point that there could have more room for the old ME 2 cast members and a better introduction but  those have nothing to with his character. His  introduction was all on Bioware.