268 réponses à ce sujet

[LightweightJustice]

Vega - a waste of resources.
Seriously, if I wanted to play a game with beefed up boys with flat jokes, I would have played Gears of War.

[RinuCZ]

Uncle Jo wrote...
He, Diana Allers and Steve Cortez deserve the airlock.

OT - To be fair, you don't have to recruit Allers.

[Anvos]

RinuCZ wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...
He, Diana Allers and Steve Cortez deserve the airlock.

OT - To be fair, you don't have to recruit Allers.

That and Allers could have been better if they had more instances of shepard and her conversing about the war, or scenes like the mabari from DA1 where she did interviews with other squadmates that shepard could review and give comments on.

[Jassu1979]

I do not mind Vega THAT much.

What I *do* mind is that they felt the need to introduce new primary cast members into a story that already featured a vast collection of characters, and that they introduced him rather poorly at that. ("Oh, hi James.")

I would not have resented Vega so much if they had not delegated the ENTIRE cast of ME2 to nothing more than a bunch of cameos.

[Uncle Jo]

RinuCZ wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...
He, Diana Allers and Steve Cortez deserve the airlock.

OT - To be fair, you don't have to recruit Allers.

Problem is that this wonderful, but misunderstood woman increases your war assets after every interview. For players who don't like MP like me, if she's not on the Normandy, it's... problematic.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 19 juillet 2012 - 12:47 .

[RinuCZ]

Exactly, Anvos. That's what I was saying in another thread. Her VO wasn't exactly top-notch but having a reporter on board was a nice idea. She'd report about a war progress, Normandy is a good place for that, and at same time she'd provide interesting or funny sneak peaks about crew.

She has a new meaningful yet underused role on board, the opposite of James. He, or more precisely his status, doesn't extend crew's field of activity. Just saying, no hard feelings.

[RinuCZ]

I understand what you mean, Uncle Jo. MP influence was surely frustrating but her WA contribution isn't that high. I think it's circa 20 EMS which is pre-EC and post-EC low enough to be important (see this thread). So if you feel like not inviting her, the game doesn't really penalize you.

I think we should avoid expanding this off-topic...

Modifié par RinuCZ, 19 juillet 2012 - 01:00 .

[Rhayak]

what potential?

.... the potential that an exceptional soldier has. O_O he kills things and avoids being killed by things better than most other soldiers, so the navy offers him access to knowledge and tools to become even better at doing all of the above. Such is not given to just any soldier.

Eventually, he will get to direct others to killing things. And perhaps even talk to them about their personal problems and solve them

Or he could've used the shuttle's guns

Thus risking to destroy both Eva's spacecar and all the data she carried. Same result as doing nothing.

That aside, yeah, he was brazen. So what? You can't really call him non-N7 material for that, as Shepard can also be brazen if you play his character so.

Modifié par Rhayak, 19 juillet 2012 - 01:07 .

[Uncle Jo]

RinuCZ wrote...

I understand what you mean, Uncle Jo. MP influence was surely frustrating but her WA contribution isn't that high. I think it's circa 20 EMS which is pre-EC and post-EC low enough to be important (see this thread). So if you feel like not inviting her, the game doesn't really penalize you.

I know and the EC made it easier. It's still wasted time and resources for a new, unsignificant character. Emily Wong or even Bin Jilani would have been more interesting, if anything.

That's why I require the right to throw her out of the airlock, even if it could cost me the war. It's not an unrealistic wish, I think.

I'm also glad that James can be killed on the beam run if your EMS are very low. I praise Harbinger for not missing this opportunity.

[The Angry One]

Rhayak wrote...

.... the potential that an exceptional soldier has. O_O he kills things and avoids being killed by things better than most other soldiers, so the navy offers him access to knowledge and tools to become even better at doing all of the above. Such is not given to just any soldier.

Eventually, he will get to direct others to killing things. And perhaps even talk to them about their personal problems and solve them

I am not a member of the military, however I suspect that killing the enemy and avoiding being killed yourself it the bare minimum one can expect from any trained soldier.
I don't see anything that makes him exceptional other than he's the most successful subject of the Alliance Hyper-Steroid Project.

Thus risking to destroy both Eva's spacecar and all the data she carried. Same result as doing nothing.

That aside, yeah, he was brazen. So what? You can't really call him non-N7 material for that, as Shepard can also be brazen if you play his character so.

Yeah cause a shuttle crash that might've ruptured both their element zero cores and annihilated both shuttles and Shepard was totally safer.

There's a difference between brazen and dumb. The fact that he got lucky is irrelevant.

[Rhayak]

The Angry One wrote...

I am not a member of the military, however I suspect that killing the enemy and avoiding being killed yourself it the bare minimum one can expect from any trained soldier.
I don't see anything that makes him exceptional other than he's the most successful subject of the Alliance Hyper-Steroid Project.

My point is, if you're a military commander and see that one of your soldiers is great at what he does, you want to nurture him so he can become an even better element. That's the motivation behind the offer of N7 training.
(His success in the Collector mission is also a factor. Yeah he lost his team but ultimately completed the objective and gathered priceless intelligence. That's what matters if you think militarily.)

A position of command may come in time, if Vega proves to have what it takes.
He might not, i concede that. But i don't think being N7 automatically means being a leader like Shepard.
N7 are essentially very, very, very good soldiers. Future Navy Seals.

Yeah cause a shuttle crash that might've ruptured both their element zero cores and annihilated both shuttles and Shepard was totally safer.

Ouch, that would've been a fun scene XD

There's a difference between brazen and dumb. The fact that he got lucky is irrelevant.

As Shepard points out, he is the kind of brave that does not completely care if he lives or not.... as long as he doesn't back away.

Also, look at how he interacts with Javik, Garrus or the Batarian tatoo parlor. That is being open minded. If he is dumb, then Zaeed is even dumber. And neither of them is.

[Pantegana]

I like Vega. But I'd rather have Wrex, Zaeed or Grunt back instead of him.

[KevTheGamer]

Pantegana wrote...

I like Vega. But I'd rather have Wrex, Zaeed or Grunt back instead of him.

screw em all and just give me Jack for at least one mission. 

[Archontor]

Chewin3 wrote...

Archontor wrote...
I say courage and tenacity do make a better leader because they're inspiring.

Didn't state this wasn't the case, I'm arguing that these capabilities doesn't make him intellectual, which is what I've been stating the whole time. Sure, Shepard taking down a Reaper can be very inspiring to many people, but I don't see this makes Shepard exceptional, or why anyone of his crew would look up to him for it. If not that they are selfminded themselves.

Paragon Shep (can't speak for others) demonstrates a logical argument to situations and a sense of empathy (convincing Ereba to go to Charr in ME2) and he seems to understand what will provoke a reaction in different people (the krogan scout's pep talk)

A flawed dialogue system based on charm, not intelligence. Shepard only stated "Doi, he obviously likes you, you should give a chance" and Ereba goes all like "Yeah, never thought about that". There's nothing exceptional being said from Shepard, and it only shows how easy Ereba is persuaded with little to no effort.

Same with the krogan scout. Shepard states only a badass can get back to Urdnot's camp, and the krogan goes all "I can do it!" LOL WTF!?

Yes, Shep relies mostly on general knowledge (though he does demonstrate an expected understanding of space travel in one conversation with a citadel shopkeeper) that isn't the point, mere knowledge of facts is somewhat arbitrary, a computer can store more facts than anyone can ever know it is the ability to relate them and form reasoned opinions off of them that demonstrates intelligence.

Which makes him no different from others in term of intelligence. He can kill, but should let smarter people do the talking. Oh wait, there are basically none in ME.

No one else seems to ever kill a reaper without suffering massive casualties. In contrast Shep is barely so much as scratched. I can see that impressing people. Also they survive being killed and then goes to kill a mysterious race at the centre of the galaxy, kill the world's best information broker, singlehandedly infiltrate a batarian prison and then fight their way out and blow up a ****ing solar system. And that's just the stuff off the top of my head to list the total possible achievements of Shep would take quite some time. No one act could really engender that much respect but together it's quite amazing.

Shepard does demonstarte a knowledge of, of all things poetry when he points out the captain dies in Ashley's little poem. Vega on the other hand kicks a console despite the fact that computers will have existed for around two hundred years at that point and rams a shuttle. Whilst in an armed shuttle. One that they need to escape the reaper invasion. One that could have blown apart the entire area if it's eezo core breached. Vega is definitely a lot dumber than Shep or indeed an average person.

I recognise that the persuasion mechanic is...odd. However if every attempt went like this conversation there would be either a lot less of them, a lot less gameplay, and a lot more discs. However the case remains that from a canonical sense Shepard convinced Ereba to marry Charr and pep talked a scout despite the fact that he's just some guy who mosied on in.  

Oh and sorry for the delay in replying.

 

[Sugarjaye]

The Angry One wrote...

Rhayak wrote...

.... the potential that an exceptional soldier has. O_O he kills things and avoids being killed by things better than most other soldiers, so the navy offers him access to knowledge and tools to become even better at doing all of the above. Such is not given to just any soldier.

Eventually, he will get to direct others to killing things. And perhaps even talk to them about their personal problems and solve them

I am not a member of the military, however I suspect that killing the enemy and avoiding being killed yourself it the bare minimum one can expect from any trained soldier.
I don't see anything that makes him exceptional other than he's the most successful subject of the Alliance Hyper-Steroid Project.

Thus risking to destroy both Eva's spacecar and all the data she carried. Same result as doing nothing.

That aside, yeah, he was brazen. So what? You can't really call him non-N7 material for that, as Shepard can also be brazen if you play his character so.

Yeah cause a shuttle crash that might've ruptured both their element zero cores and annihilated both shuttles and Shepard was totally safer.

There's a difference between brazen and dumb. The fact that he got lucky is irrelevant.

If your'e not a member of the military as such than how can you accurately say what makes a good soldier. I'm not, but from the comments I have read from a lot of people that have either A. Been in the military or B. Have family in the military, and those tend to say that Vega is a good example of a soldier.

[CHALET]

I don't dislike Vega as a character, I dislike what he represents.

BioWare came out and squarely said he was designed to appeal to the 'newcomers' to the universe, in other words he was there for all the coffee-filtered-coloured-chest-high-wall-testorerone-pumped-space-marine IP's that fill the market. It was another sign of EA's indoctrination slowly eroding BioWare as so many had predicted they would.

[Bill Casey]

The Angry One wrote...

Or he could've used the shuttle's guns.

The UT47 Kodiak foregoes armaments for barriers and electronic countermeasures...
It's stealthy, fast, durable and unarmed...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 20 juillet 2012 - 02:21 .

[CHALET]

Bill Casey wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Or he could've used the shuttle's guns.

The UT47 Kodiak foregoes armaments for barriers and electronic countermeasures...
It's stealthy, fast, durable and unarmed...

Rannoch says hi.

[The Spamming Troll]

i like vega, i think hes a cool dude.

but he shouldnt be in shepards squad. hes not elite enough. how am i supposed to convince myself id rather have vega in my threesome instead of anyone else?

the only thing i think vega should have been, is a krogan.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:56 .

[Lookout1390]

The problem with Vega is that he is a generic human space marine #325025, and failed to stand-out to me.

I have Shepard, and the VS.

I don't want anymore on my crew.

A galaxy full of diversity and so many possibilities, and we get stuck with him.

  was the highlight of his character to me, and that was pretty much it.

Modifié par Lookout1390, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:58 .

[sistersafetypin]

I disagree. A lot of people hated what he represented, which was another way Bioware was spending more time trying to get new players then making sure the game was top notch. It's like a lesser version of Allers, because at least Vega is useful.

That said, I liked him once I realized he was more then just means to fill in the blanks for noobs

[Archontor]

Bill Casey wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Or he could've used the shuttle's guns.

The UT47 Kodiak foregoes armaments for barriers and electronic countermeasures...
It's stealthy, fast, durable and unarmed...

The UT47A is the alliance's armed variant whilst cerberus' UT47 (presumably some kind of mercenary or prototype version they obtained) is unarmed. So shooting it makes even more sense as they can't shoot back. 

[foxfeathers]

Poor Vega. I thought he was adorable. Sure, he LOOKS ridiculous, but that quickly becomes irrelevant.

[avenging_teabag]

I loved Vega. Sure, his introduction was wtf, but once i got to know him a little, he became one of my favorites. After shuttle crashing and console kicking, i dunno how it's possible to dislike him. He's a very good, very balanced character and a useful squadmate. He's Alenko and Jacob done right.