63 réponses à ce sujet

[1483749283]

Whatever you thought of Mass Effect 3, it definitely answered many questions about its lore. By the end of the game there was no doubt as to the ME3 central mythos and the purpose of the central actors in the drama. With Dragon Age, we are getting more and more questions and fewer and fewer answers.

What I want to know is, is this going to be the trend? Is the goal here  to keep on generating questions without ever answering them (like X-Files etc.)

I have these questions in mind:

• What is the black city and what is its relation to Arlathan.
• Will the Morrigan/Flemeth/Old God Baby conflict actually see any resolution or will it just keep on being mysterious.
• Why do old gods/archdemons turn into look lke dragons when they become archdemons, when there are also dragons that are not archdemons. What is the source of the corruption and what is the song that they sing prior to being tainted.
• Is there anything to Andraste, is she an old god baby, and is there any real power to her or is she just a myth.
• What is the relationship between demonic power and darkspawn power. This was the subject of Avernus's research. Are they mutually exclusive or do they intersect somehow. Will something come of their union.
• Is there a grand designer of the darkspawn cycle or is it some kind of freakish but naturally occurring physical property of Thedas.

My biggest concern is that compared to these questions, the entire axis of the mages vs. templar wars seems rather tiresome and over-explored... I am not particularly excited about hearing more argumentation along these lines, more discussion of mages' need for freedom or Templars' desire to protect the innocent, as I do believe this particular issue has been beaten to death by dragon age 2 and surrounding novels.

I want to end on a positive note and say that I do find the bulleted questions above fascinating and would very much like to see them *definitively* answered at some point in the future (even if it's Dragon Age 10... but if it is that far away, you might want to build in a crescendo).

Modifié par Pausanias, 18 juillet 2012 - 09:25 .

[vortex216]

the black city was the home of the maker, but when the tevinter mages breached it, it was corrupted with their sin.and the mages turned into darkspawn. old gods were dragons and the gods of the tevinter mages, thats why the darkspawn seek them out. andraste freed thedas from tevinter and was a supposed prophet, without her the chantry as we know it would not exist. demonic power and darkspawn power are completley different.

[Plaintiff]

Dragon Age is not a trilogy, and it does not have a 'central mythos', so it doesn't need to rush to solve any mysteries quite yet.

Also, questions are interesting and answers are boring. Mystery is what keeps people interested.

[TEWR]

Plaintiff wrote...

Dragon Age is not a trilogy, and it does not have a 'central mythos', so it doesn't need to rush to solve any mysteries quite yet.

Also, questions are interesting and answers are boring. Mystery is what keeps people interested.

IMO there is such a thing as too much mystery. Keeping things vague just to keep things vague is not a good way to go -- again, IMO. Eventually, some questions will have to be answered. All? I'd say no, as the mark of a good series is that you can keep it alive even after it's dead. 

Not that the "vague for vagueness' sake" thing is actually being done by Bioware mind you, as I don't really think that's what the DA series has done (yet) nor do I really have much of an interest in the thread itself (yet). But the topic of "should things be kept a mystery" as it pertains to works across the board certainly interests me.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 18 juillet 2012 - 03:16 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

vortex216 wrote...

the black city was the home of the maker, but when the tevinter mages breached it, it was corrupted with their sin.and the mages turned into darkspawn. old gods were dragons and the gods of the tevinter mages, thats why the darkspawn seek them out.

Those aren't the answers, though. That's just the preachings of those who won the war and took over Thedas. 

[dragonflight288]

• What is the black city and what is its relation to Arlathan.

I have absolutely no clue. They may not even have a relation. Arlathan was the ancient capital of the elves, and the black city is within the Fade and is the only constant part of the scenery. Everything else is the expression of a thought by the spirits who dwell there. For all we know, it may simply be the place where the Magisters walked physically and the Fade merely responded to them being there and has nothing to do with the Maker.

• Will the Morrigan/Flemeth/Old God Baby conflict actually see any resolution or will it just keep on being mysterious.

I'd like to see it resolved, but also the mystery of the eluvians. Where does it lead? It's a place beyond the Fade, and I want to explore it. If the mystery of the Old God baby is to be resolved, so too must the eluvian as Morrigan took the child through the mirror. The baby is already there before the Warden shows up.

• Why
  do old gods turn into dragons when they become archdemons, since there
  are also dragons that are not archdemons. What is the source of the
  corruption.

Actually they're dragons before becoming archdemons. Whether they are High Dragons who get tainted or if they are freak Male Dragons who grew beyond Drake, I don't know.

• Is there anything to Andraste, is she an old god baby, and is there any real power to her or is she just a myth.

There is plenty of historical record in the codexes that proves she lived. There were witnesses to her execution. There is enough evidence to leave reasonable doubt on whether she is the bride of the maker. She may have been a powerful mage for all we know. Or she may have been a powerful warlord who had a string of coincidences. I for one am more than happy having these questions be not answered. It'll add to the debate and we can roleplay characters who venerate their ancestors, follow the beliefs of the elves, be aetheist, or even believe in the Chantry.

• What
  is the relationship between demonic power and darkspawn power. This was
  the subject of Avernus's research. Are they mutually exclusive or do
  they intersect somehow. Will something come of their union.

The Darkspawn taint is alien to the demons. They could counter every bit of lore on blood magic that Avernus would use in his eternal battle against the demonic horde (until a Warden conveniently came along and helped out) so he used the Darkspawn taint as a tool to fight the demons. They never experienced it, or encountered it before. So he researched into the taint to draw as much power from it as possible. The more he knew about the taint, the better equipped he was to fight the demons.

• Is
  there a grand designer of the darkspawn cycle or is it some kind of
  freakish but naturally occurring physical property of Thedas.

It could be the primeval thaig dwarves. It could be the magisters. But fact is, the darkspawn have plagued dwarves longer than the Chantry claims it's been since the magisters invaded the Maker's home. Or more accurately, they give the timeline accurately, but Corypheus's statements make it obvious the Chantry is wrong about the timeline the magisters invaded the Golden City. If so, that would mean that Corypheus and the other magisters weren't the first darkspawn despite what the Chantry claims.

[CuriousArtemis]

It makes sense that ME had definitive answers because it's science fiction. Fantasy is about the collective myth and the imagination... unless it's allegory, it doesn't usually provide concrete answers (such as, yes, the gods are really real).

What I like about DA is that it offers debates but not answers. For example:

Anders: There are good spirits and bad spirits. Demons and spirits that represent the good in us.
Merrill: All spirits are same. They are simply another race of people, like elves or humans.

(^ paraphrasing)

Which is right, which is wrong ... I don't want BW to answer that question. I don't think it's supposed to be answered.

[TEWR]

motomotogirl wrote...

I don't think it's supposed to be answered

For that one, I'd say it already was answered, insofar as the relative danger spirits -- and indeed, Demons and Spirits are all spirits, per both Chantry and Dalish sources -- pose to the mortal world.

They're all dangerous -- and Merrill will say as much. The level of danger however is different. Spirits like Faith, Justice, and Valor are safer, but not inherently safe like Andrastian society would like to believe.

[1483749283]

vortex216 wrote...

the black city was the home of the maker, but when the tevinter mages breached it, it was corrupted with their sin.and the mages turned into darkspawn. old gods were dragons and the gods of the tevinter mages, thats why the darkspawn seek them out. andraste freed thedas from tevinter and was a supposed prophet, without her the chantry as we know it would not exist. demonic power and darkspawn power are completley different.

As stated by someone else above, this is just the kool-aid from the Chantry---a story which is quite plausibly wrong, as evidenced in several dialogues throughout the games.

[1483749283]

Plaintiff wrote...

Dragon Age is not a trilogy, and it does not have a 'central mythos', so it doesn't need to rush to solve any mysteries quite yet.

Also, questions are interesting and answers are boring. Mystery is what keeps people interested.

Mystery for mystery's sake is not good. For example, a TV show like the X-files was fascinating precisely because of the sheer number of questions that kept on coming up. But that was all there was to the show---the writers didn't have a freaking clue where they were going with the story, and so even at the very end, they ended the show with basically just a question. Another example of a show where the writers (self-admittedly) had no idea where they were going with the story was the reinvented Battle Star Galactica. They made up the ending quite late in the process. And finally the same is true about mass effect; the writers decided on not just ending but on the entire nature of the reapers quite late in the process.

My question is whether this is what's going on with Dragon Age as well; whether there's going to be a "party line" from the Chantry and a "party line" from the darkspawn and a different one from the mages, and basically the different versions of what's the truth are just going to keep on contradicting each other and increasing the mystery level to keep the interest up, or whether there's some grand design that will resolve itself in the end and blow us all away.

[1483749283]

dragonflight288 wrote...

• What is the black city and what is its relation to Arlathan.

I have absolutely no clue. They may not even have a relation. Arlathan was the ancient capital of the elves, and the black city is within the Fade and is the only constant part of the scenery. Everything else is the expression of a thought by the spirits who dwell there. For all we know, it may simply be the place where the Magisters walked physically and the Fade merely responded to them being there and has nothing to do with the Maker.

You may want to read some very well argued theories that Arlathan and the black city are the same. Here are some examples. I for one think they are (or should be) right.

http://social.biowar.../index/768506/1
http://dragonage.wik.../Eluvian_Theory
http://dragonage.wik...ack/Golden_City

• Why
  do old gods turn into dragons when they become archdemons, since there
  are also dragons that are not archdemons. What is the source of the
  corruption.

Actually they're dragons before becoming archdemons. Whether they are High Dragons who get tainted or if they are freak Male Dragons who grew beyond Drake, I don't know.

I for one have always been very bothered by the fact that there is a creature in Thedas (ordinary High Dragon) that is morphologically the same as an archdemon. Why is it that old gods are shaped like dragons, but then there are also ordinary non-god dragons? I feel it has to point to something significant, but can't quite put my finger on it.

• Is there anything to Andraste, is she an old god baby, and is there any real power to her or is she just a myth.

There is plenty of historical record in the codexes that proves she lived. There were witnesses to her execution. There is enough evidence to leave reasonable doubt on whether she is the bride of the maker. She may have been a powerful mage for all we know. Or she may have been a powerful warlord who had a string of coincidences. I for one am more than happy having these questions be not answered. It'll add to the debate and we can roleplay characters who venerate their ancestors, follow the beliefs of the elves, be aetheist, or even believe in the Chantry.

According to the timelines, Andraste was born at exactly the right time to be the Old God Baby of the first archdemon. Much was made of this at some point. I don't think it would be a bad line to explore in the mythos.

• Is
  there a grand designer of the darkspawn cycle or is it some kind of
  freakish but naturally occurring physical property of Thedas.

It could be the primeval thaig dwarves. It could be the magisters. But fact is, the darkspawn have plagued dwarves longer than the Chantry claims it's been since the magisters invaded the Maker's home. Or more accurately, they give the timeline accurately, but Corypheus's statements make it obvious the Chantry is wrong about the timeline the magisters invaded the Golden City. If so, that would mean that Corypheus and the other magisters weren't the first darkspawn despite what the Chantry claims.

I think that red lyrium and the fact that it's the same color as blood has to play a role here.

Modifié par Pausanias, 18 juillet 2012 - 05:41 .

[Todd23]

Andraste is the OGB of Dumat, however, over many years she eventually took on the identity of Flemeth.

[dragonflight288]

[quote]Pausanias wrote...

[quote]dragonflight288 wrote...

• What is the black city and what is its relation to Arlathan.

I have absolutely no clue. They may not even have a relation. Arlathan was the ancient capital of the elves, and the black city is within the Fade and is the only constant part of the scenery. Everything else is the expression of a thought by the spirits who dwell there. For all we know, it may simply be the place where the Magisters walked physically and the Fade merely responded to them being there and has nothing to do with the Maker.
[/quote]

You may want to read some very well argued theories that Arlathan and the black city are the same. Here are some examples. I for one think they are (or should be) right.

http://social.biowar.../index/768506/1
http://dragonage.wik.../Eluvian_Theory
http://dragonage.wik...ack/Golden_City[/quote]

Very interesting. I found the most compelling bit of it was in the las link about that talking statue who says she'll never speak to Finn again.

I for one like to make my arguments based around facts and acknowledge that I don't know something. I'll openly admit its an intriguing idea. But all it takes is one piece of archeological evidence discoverd in a future game or novel to discount that theory. But until then, it makes a very interesting theory.

[quote][quote]

• Why
  do old gods turn into dragons when they become archdemons, since there
  are also dragons that are not archdemons. What is the source of the
  corruption.

Actually they're dragons before becoming archdemons. Whether they are High Dragons who get tainted or if they are freak Male Dragons who grew beyond Drake, I don't know.[/quote]

I for one have always been very bothered by the fact that there is a creature in Thedas (ordinary High Dragon) that is morphologically the same as an archdemon. Why is it that old gods are shaped like dragons, but then there are also ordinary non-god dragons? I feel it has to point to something significant, but can't quite put my finger on it.[/quote]

Or it could be that they simply are dragons who get tainted. Like a hurlock is born from a broodmother of a human woman. Or a genlock being dwarven.

[quote][quote]

Is there anything to Andraste, is she an old god baby, and is there any real power to her or is she just a myth.
There is plenty of historical record in the codexes that proves she lived. There were witnesses to her execution. There is enough evidence to leave reasonable doubt on whether she is the bride of the maker. She may have been a powerful mage for all we know. Or she may have been a powerful warlord who had a string of coincidences. I for one am more than happy having these questions be not answered. It'll add to the debate and we can roleplay characters who venerate their ancestors, follow the beliefs of the elves, be aetheist, or even believe in the Chantry.
[/quote]

According to the timelines, Andraste was born at exactly the right time to be the Old God Baby of the first archdemon. Much was made of this at some point. I don't think it would be a bad line to explore in the mythos.[/quote]

It is possible. Flemeth HAS to learn about the Dark Ritual some way. But Flemeth being Andraste...I doubt that. Is Andraste an Old God Baby? She was born around the same time. But there is no in-game evidence to support this. There is enough in-game evidence that supports that she may have been a mage. Was she? I don't know but there is a lot of evidence that suggests it. Enough to cast reasonable doubt on the Chantry's version of events.

[quote][quote]

• Is
  there a grand designer of the darkspawn cycle or is it some kind of
  freakish but naturally occurring physical property of Thedas.

It could be the primeval thaig dwarves. It could be the magisters. But fact is, the darkspawn have plagued dwarves longer than the Chantry claims it's been since the magisters invaded the Maker's home. Or more accurately, they give the timeline accurately, but Corypheus's statements make it obvious the Chantry is wrong about the timeline the magisters invaded the Golden City. If so, that would mean that Corypheus and the other magisters weren't the first darkspawn despite what the Chantry claims.
[/quote]

I think that red lyrium and the fact that it's the same color as blood has to play a role here.[/quote][/quote]

It's quite possible. And at this point, more likely than Corypheus creating darkspawn to attack the surface.

[Fallstar]

Pausanias wrote... 
I think that red lyrium and the fact that it's the same color as blood has to play a role here.

Just gunna copy paste some of my thoughts on the red lyrium.
My idea is that the dwarves in the primeval thaig all used blood magic. So that's why I'm talking about the old Gods/Tevinter. Rest of it is here if you're interested: Dwarven Blood Mages in the Primeval Thaig.


The architecture in the Primeval Thaig is described as being vastly different to normal dwarven thaigs. There are no statues of the Paragons, there are temples and idols to unknown gods. It makes the dwarves of the primeval thaig seem fairly devout. Gods is used in the plural here, so it does not look like they were worshipping the Maker. Which other society created vast temples and idols to their gods? The old Tevinter Imperium. The price of the blood magic the Archons learned was that they would worship the Old Gods; perhaps the price the Dwarves had to pay was the same.

Onto the red lyrium. I have two ideas on what happened with the red lyrium; the naturally occuring lyrium veins were changed into the red lyrium over time due to prolonged exposure to blood magic. Alternatively, the dwarves used the lyrium veins in the Primeval Thaigs as part of the temples and idols they built. If you go and look at the Thaig, the lyrium isn't like that in origins where it's just a lump on the ground. It's almost like veins running through the stone. And we know the dwarves used lyrium to make idols out of. Instead of being changed over time, it is possible this lyrium was corrupted instantaneously; at the exact moment the original magisters corrupted Dumat into an Archdemon. Dumat was changed into an Archdemon; idols made in his image and temples devoted to him were likewise corrupted, giving birth to the red lyrium we see in game. 

[Fallstar]

And yes, @ OP, one of my concerns is how few answers we get in DA. Leaving a few threads open is always nice, but when each game and expansion pack and dlc adds far more questions than it answers, it's extremely dissatisfying. You could compare DG with another fantasy epic writer who didn't seem to like wrapping things up. 

Modifié par DuskWarden, 18 juillet 2012 - 04:42 .

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...



[*]
Or it could be that they simply are dragons who get tainted. Like a hurlock is born from a broodmother of a human woman. Or a genlock being dwarven.

That wouldn't explain the Calling, the fact that there are dragons imprisioned beneath the Deep Roads; The Architect was able to find Urthemiel thanks to the directions given by Bregan; and why the two Blight Dragons the Warden encouters protecting the entrance to Fort Drakon do not exhibit the Archdemon's ability to survive through its essence and pass it to a Darkspawn. In "The Calling", Maric and the Grey Warden are running away from darkspawn and they escape by entering the lair of an High Dragon. If an Archdemon is simply a tainted High Dragon, you'd think the darkspawn would do whatever they could to taint that one rather than digging through tons of rock; the Architect showed Bregan the darkspawn doing exactly this..

Modifié par MisterJB, 18 juillet 2012 - 05:20 .

[aldien]

Perhaps, some answers will be answered and others not. A hole has been dug and it will either be filled by a cohesive storyline that makes sense and does not leave too many unanswered questions, the important ones, or not at all.

Modifié par aldien, 18 juillet 2012 - 05:20 .

[dragonflight288]

That wouldn't explain the Calling, the fact that there are dragons imprisioned beneath the Deep Roads; The Architect was able to find Urthemiel thanks to the directions given by Bregan; and why the two Blight Dragons the Warden encouters protecting the entrance to Fort Drakon do not exhibit the Archdemon's ability to survive through its essence and pass it to a Darkspawn. In "The Calling", Maric and the Grey Warden are running away from darkspawn and they escape by entering the lair of an High Dragon. If an Archdemon is simply a tainted High Dragon, you'd think the darkspawn would do whatever they could to taint that one rather than digging through tons of rock; the Architect showed Bregan the darkspawn doing exactly this..

Dragons are sentient. Or that's the impression I got in Haven. And they aren't the only dragon cult in the world. That High Dragon allowed them to worship it and gave them its blood to allow them to become Reavers.

I may be wrong about Archdemons, but dragons are intelligent beings even if they aren't archdemons.

[MisterJB]

That could explain the Calling, I suppose, but not the other questions I raised.
Altough then we'd have to wonder why only Tainted beings can hear it.

Modifié par MisterJB, 18 juillet 2012 - 06:32 .

[dragonflight288]

MisterJB wrote...

That could explain the Calling, I suppose, but not the other questions I raised.
Altough then we'd have to wonder why only Tainted beings can hear it.

It's a mystery. I don't have answers. I don't even have theories. All I know is that Tainted beings can hear the call. I wish I could answer or even theorize more, but I honestly don't know enough.

So I answer based on what I know and leave what I don't know open to interpretation or discussion. Someone may have points I never thought of or bring up lore and codex entries or even excerpts from the novels (as you have done) that I completely forgot about.

[Silfren]

Pausanias wrote...

Whatever you thought of Mass Effect 3, it definitely answered many questions about its lore. By the end of the game there was no doubt as to the ME3 central mythos and the purpose of the central actors in the drama. With Dragon Age, we are getting more and more questions and fewer and fewer answers.

What I want to know is, is this going to be the trend? Is the goal here  to keep on generating questions without ever answering them (like X-Files etc.)

I have these questions in mind:

• What is the black city and what is its relation to Arlathan.
• Will the Morrigan/Flemeth/Old God Baby conflict actually see any resolution or will it just keep on being mysterious.
• Why do old gods turn into dragons when they become archdemons, since there are also dragons that are not archdemons. What is the source of the corruption.
• Is there anything to Andraste, is she an old god baby, and is there any real power to her or is she just a myth.
• What is the relationship between demonic power and darkspawn power. This was the subject of Avernus's research. Are they mutually exclusive or do they intersect somehow. Will something come of their union.
• Is there a grand designer of the darkspawn cycle or is it some kind of freakish but naturally occurring physical property of Thedas.

My biggest concern is that compared to these questions, the entire axis of the mages vs. templar wars seems rather tiresome and over-explored... I am not particularly excited about hearing more argumentation along these lines, more discussion of mages' need for freedom or Templars' desire to protect the innocent, as I do believe this particular issue has been beaten to death by dragon age 2 and surrounding novels.

I want to end on a positive note and say that I do find the bulleted questions above fascinating and would very much like to see them *definitively* answered at some point in the future (even if it's Dragon Age 10... but if it is that far away, you might want to build in a crescendo).

At least one question is already answered:  The Old Gods don't turn into dragons when they are tainted into archdemons.  They are ALREADY dragons.  At least, the creatures that are widely held to BE the Old Gods worshipped by the ancient Tevinter Imperium...they were dragons all along.  So the question isn't why do the Old Gods become dragons when they become archdemons, but rather, are the dragons that become archdemons actually the Old Gods that they are widely believed to be?

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Dragon Age is not a trilogy, and it does not have a 'central mythos', so it doesn't need to rush to solve any mysteries quite yet.

Also, questions are interesting and answers are boring. Mystery is what keeps people interested.

IMO there is such a thing as too much mystery. Keeping things vague just to keep things vague is not a good way to go -- again, IMO. Eventually, some questions will have to be answered. All? I'd say no, as the mark of a good series is that you can keep it alive even after it's dead. 

Not that the "vague for vagueness' sake" thing is actually being done by Bioware mind you, as I don't really think that's what the DA series has done (yet) nor do I really have much of an interest in the thread itself (yet). But the topic of "should things be kept a mystery" as it pertains to works across the board certainly interests me.

I would agree with this.  To a point, yes, mystery is always more entertaining than having all the answers.  However, it's one thing for certain plots to be left without any answers or even credible-but-unverified explanations, and another for all of the hanging plots to be left that way, especially if old questions are going to continue to be left unanswered while more unanswered questions are added with each new installment.  

My biggest concern is the prospect of Bioware leaving certain mysteries unanswered because they couldn't come up with plausible answers without retconning and/or contradicting huge swaths of existing lore.  Just dropping a subject completely is, unfortunately, a too-easy fallback for some writers who come up with a compelling concept that they leave mysterious, but ultimately just can't explain in any kind of plausible, satisfying way.

[Silfren]

dragonflight288 wrote...

That wouldn't explain the Calling, the fact that there are dragons imprisioned beneath the Deep Roads; The Architect was able to find Urthemiel thanks to the directions given by Bregan; and why the two Blight Dragons the Warden encouters protecting the entrance to Fort Drakon do not exhibit the Archdemon's ability to survive through its essence and pass it to a Darkspawn. In "The Calling", Maric and the Grey Warden are running away from darkspawn and they escape by entering the lair of an High Dragon. If an Archdemon is simply a tainted High Dragon, you'd think the darkspawn would do whatever they could to taint that one rather than digging through tons of rock; the Architect showed Bregan the darkspawn doing exactly this..

Dragons are sentient. Or that's the impression I got in Haven. And they aren't the only dragon cult in the world. That High Dragon allowed them to worship it and gave them its blood to allow them to become Reavers.

I may be wrong about Archdemons, but dragons are intelligent beings even if they aren't archdemons.

The intelligence factor is rather beside the point.  Intelligent or not, dragons that become archdemons are NOT just ordinary dragons that have the misfortune of becoming tainted.  You're forgetting that darkspawn are specifically drawn to the particular "Old God" dragons through the Calling.  Not just any dragon produces the instinctual drive that pushes darkspawn to dig for centuries until they come across the Song's source.  You're also forgetting that tainted dragons are thralls to the darkspawn and the taint.  They don't suddenly "awaken" and become the commanders of a unified darkspawn army and wage a campaign against the surface world.  Only the "Old God" dragons manage that. 

The dragon creatures that the darkspawn corrupt into archdemons could turn out to be something other than the Old Gods they are believed by the Chantry and co. to be, but they are definitely not just your garden variety dragon.  Something about them is unique.

Modifié par Silfren, 18 juillet 2012 - 09:03 .

[andocrack]

It's annoying to see characters you think will have something valuable to say, only to have them talk cryptically and disappear. If DA3 doesn't address any lingering questions, then what's the point of playing it? The game really needs to resolve them because I don't think the series can attract a new audience or even hold its current one by coasting through like DA2 did.

The way I see it, Mass Effect had less loose ends to tie up, and Bioware couldn't deliver. They improved it and I'm satisfied enough, but even with their second chance, they still decided to just skip over a lot of the details and leave it at that.

[1483749283]

Silfren wrote...

The intelligence factor is rather beside the point.  Intelligent or not, dragons that become archdemons are NOT just ordinary dragons that have the misfortune of becoming tainted.  You're forgetting that darkspawn are specifically drawn to the particular "Old God" dragons through the Calling.  Not just any dragon produces the instinctual drive that pushes darkspawn to dig for centuries until they come across the Song's source.  You're also forgetting that tainted dragons are thralls to the darkspawn and the taint.  They don't suddenly "awaken" and become the commanders of a unified darkspawn army and wage a campaign against the surface world.  Only the "Old God" dragons manage that. 

The dragon creatures that the darkspawn corrupt into archdemons could turn out to be something other than the Old Gods they are believed by the Chantry and co. to be, but they are definitely not just your garden variety dragon.  Something about them is unique.

I edited the top post to reflect this discussion... 

I think the main three questions about old gods/archdemons that have to be answered at a minimum are:

• Why do they look like dragons when there are also ordinary dragons.
• Are they noncommunicative because they are as "dumb" (or primal/instinctive) as the darkspawn, or merely because they choose not to speak with surface dwellers. If they are inherently noncommunicative, were they also noncommunicative prior to receiving the taint.
• If the old gods are free of the taint prior to encountering the darkspawn, what is the song that they sing and why is it that the darkspawn are drawn to it above everything else.