712 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Shallyah wrote...

Refusal is already victory.

If you can't understand what Refusal ending entails do not make a fool of yourself with threads like this.

wow, a personal victory instead of a Video Game victory, that make things much better

[ddraigcoch123]

Shallyah wrote...

Refusal is already a form of victory.

If you can't understand what Refusal ending entails do not make a fool of yourself with threads like this.

Really... best you can do is drop in on a conversation and insult me... outstanding... well here is why refusal whilst a noble option to my fellow players is not in any way shape or form a 'victory' for me or my many playthroughs...

I lose, my Shepard losses, everyone I know and 'care' about in the game dies or is harvested, Earth, Rannoch, Thessia, Tuchanka... are all ripped back to a pre civilisation age and probably a nuclear winter... need I go on?
Yeah its lovely that somehow, some other game players in another 'universe' who have not bought the game get to finish and win... or maybe its just the bit of animation at the end of the credits.. dont know guess i have to 'head cannon' that hey...

Hang on I will just go lie down in my room for 30 hours and 'head cannon' a full Refuse ending which kinda feels hard you know coz I have no clue how that works...

But thanks for pointing me in the right direction... and heres to not making a fool of myself or anything

[ddraigcoch123]

AresKeith wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

Refusal is already victory.

If you can't understand what Refusal ending entails do not make a fool of yourself with threads like this.

wow, a personal victory instead of a Video Game victory, that make things much better

yeah dammit... why didnt someone tell me earlier and i then i wouldn't have needed to buy the vid games... could have just immagined i failed in my mission to save the galaxy from the reapers and left it to the next cycle thus ensuring the certain death and anihilation of everyone and everything i cared about...

[AresKeith]

ddraigcoch123 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

Refusal is already victory.

If you can't understand what Refusal ending entails do not make a fool of yourself with threads like this.

wow, a personal victory instead of a Video Game victory, that make things much better

yeah dammit... why didnt someone tell me earlier and i then i wouldn't have needed to buy the vid games... could have just immagined i failed in my mission to save the galaxy from the reapers and left it to the next cycle thus ensuring the certain death and anihilation of everyone and everything i cared about...

didn't you know, twitter is where video games are now lol

[ddraigcoch123]

AresKeith wrote...

ddraigcoch123 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

Refusal is already victory.

If you can't understand what Refusal ending entails do not make a fool of yourself with threads like this.

wow, a personal victory instead of a Video Game victory, that make things much better

yeah dammit... why didnt someone tell me earlier and i then i wouldn't have needed to buy the vid games... could have just immagined i failed in my mission to save the galaxy from the reapers and left it to the next cycle thus ensuring the certain death and anihilation of everyone and everything i cared about...

didn't you know, twitter is where video games are now lol

lol yeah and thats free

[Blueprotoss]

ddraigcoch123 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

ddraigcoch123 wrote...

Actually what i did was use 'facts' to illustrate my understanding of a deus ex machina... which obviously was in opposition to your proposal that the 'start brat ghost kid' was not... and in doing so i asked where you were getting your source information about said Greek plot device to support your argument when we must have been mining the same facts yet coming to completely different evaluations...

Yet you're contradicting yourself based on how the Catalyst is the "star child" based on how the Crucibe was explained at the beginning of ME3 .  If you really want to go after the "star child" then you should also go after Sovreign in ME1 and Harbinger in ME2.

ddraigcoch123 wrote... 

And you know just because you keep saying the same thing that doesn't actually make any sense, or answer any questions you have been asked, or counter any 'argument' (in its technical sense) that have been put to you it doesnt make what you say more real or truthful or accurate than someone putting a counter argument...

Yet I keep on countering you in debate form with facts while you're using opinions in an arguement form, which means you shouldn't contradict yourself.

Yeah you stopped being fun right there... you didnt come back with anything that related to the original exchange that prompted the discussion.. and now you want me to solve your problem for you about Sovereign and Harbinger possibly being deux ex machina (even though they are not and I have not said they were) but in your crazy space magic logic I have to answer that question.... oh hang on... just a minute...

this is feeling a little deja vu... isnt that what' star/ghost creator kid' just did to my Shepard... noooooo not playing your game...

Pot calling the kettle black.

[Shallyah]

*shrugs* You just can't see the bigger picture.

The Reapers have harvested thousands of cycles. One more makes no diference in the bigger picture.

You are just too emtionally attached to all those fictious characters and data bits.

[Blueprotoss]

ddraigcoch123 wrote...

I explained about the caps already... no idea what you mean about beating... seriously are you on better flu medicine than i am?

The flu is no excuse.

ddraigcoch123 wrote... 

Ah semantics... linguistic semantics i am assuming you refer to... (semantica - in greek but i cant do the bits on the letters...)  well I am not 'complaining' about semantics which would infer that i was at issue with meaning of words or phrases that had been employed during our exchange.

Semantics are just meaningless just like over analyzing things that don't do anything in a discussion.

ddraigcoch123 wrote... 

We are, rather, disagreeing on the application of the explanation of a common (and many would say overused) plot device dating from the Ancient Greeks, used rather a lot by Euripides (as I previously stated)... but many others also...

Yet this isn't a part of the discussion just like how the "Greek Tragedy" and the "Hero's Journey" applies with ME with a lot of other titles in every medium.

ddraigcoch123 wrote... 

But just to be clear... the meaning of words and our agreement on them is the cornerstone of everything we hold dear, as it is our ability to communicate complex and abstract 'data packets' between each other... so yeah i may also get a little picky over semantics if the need should arise... 

This is very true.

[AresKeith]

Shallyah wrote...

*shrugs* You just can't see the bigger picture.

The Reapers have harvested thousands of cycles. One more makes no diference in the bigger picture.

You are just too emtionally attached to all those fictious characters and data bits.

well your playing a game series where you get attached to the characters in the game, sooo

and if your not, then you aren't a true Mass Effect fan

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

Refusal is already victory.

If you can't understand what Refusal ending entails do not make a fool of yourself with threads like this.

wow, a personal victory instead of a Video Game victory, that make things much better

I doubt that you hav planned that many video games then based on your complaints.

AresKeith wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

*shrugs* You just can't see the bigger picture. 

The Reapers have harvested thousands of cycles. One more makes no diference in the bigger picture.

You are just too emtionally attached to all those fictious characters and data bits.

well your playing a game series where you get attached to the characters in the game, sooo

and if your not, then you aren't a true Mass Effect fan

Ironically you see this in a lot of video games with a lot less complaints based on the assumptions of some "fans". 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 24 juillet 2012 - 01:24 .

[ddraigcoch123]

@ Blueprotoss yeah like i said done talking to ya now... not really moving anything forward and now you want me to talk about cooking implements... very strange

@ Shallyah yeah... um think you may have stepped a little to deeply into the 'galaxy' than you may realise... i am playing the vid game through my controller that is on the screen in front of me... really dont care what happened through thousands of cycles in the past or if they happen in the future, its a fiction and a game... so only really interested in 'winning' 'playing' now...

Yes i am emotionally invested in the characters and the 'universe' created for them (also read the books and comics and now thankfully fan fiction as well) that kinda is the point of a ROLE PLAYING GAME... playing the ROLE... your avatar is your vehical, the way you 'enter' that world...

Truth is there is no 'bigger picture'... that galaxy does not exist outside the game... and doesnt exist when i'm not playing it...

Sorry if i am missing your point...

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Doesn't "Refusal" render all Mass Effect games pointless plot-wise? I know that's like Meta-gaming with knowing what is coming but the Reapers were invincible for countless years and with a shot to end it for the next cycle (even your own cycle)... Would you take that shot? A lot of people are wrapped around their Shepard living that they forget that the true (to the fullest) hero is one who sacrifices themselves for their belief in "what is right". All the choices besides Refusal bring about something that benefits everything alive in one form or fashion..at the cost of Shepard's life. Think about this.. If you could sacrifice your life at this very moment to save humanity from extinction, would you? Even though their are bad people out there, I would still do it knowing that there is some good out there. That's how I feel about Refusal... point-less, but adds a nice touch to bring a crazy Renegade. Lol.

[AlanC9]

ddraigcoch123 wrote...
I lose, my Shepard losses, everyone I know and 'care' about in the game dies or is harvested, Earth, Rannoch, Thessia, Tuchanka... are all ripped back to a pre civilisation age and probably a nuclear winter... need I go on?

Actually, it's worse than that. Unless the Reapers have changed their M.O., the populations of those worlds and all their colonies will be completely exterminated. It's not pre-civilization, it's no civilization.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

AlanC9 wrote...

ddraigcoch123 wrote...
I lose, my Shepard losses, everyone I know and 'care' about in the game dies or is harvested, Earth, Rannoch, Thessia, Tuchanka... are all ripped back to a pre civilisation age and probably a nuclear winter... need I go on?

Actually, it's worse than that. Unless the Reapers have changed their M.O., the populations of those worlds and all their colonies will be completely exterminated. It's not pre-civilization, it's no civilization.

There will be another civilization, just not the one that has formed in that cycle. The Prothean race did a good job of taking over the Milky Way, they could have streched even farther if not for the Reapers. Refusal brings about change like our own human history. Don't worry about ol' Shep, He/She will can survive point-blank blast of the "destroy" ray.. I'm pretty sure he/she can go into hiding during his Refusal "ray".

Modifié par XEternalXDreamsX, 24 juillet 2012 - 01:44 .

[AlanC9]

XEternalXDreamsX wrote...

Doesn't "Refusal" render all Mass Effect games pointless plot-wise?

Well, ME1's still important. if Shepard fails there Liara doesn't get to make her beacons.

That's how I feel about Refusal... point-less, but adds a nice touch to bring a crazy Renegade. Lol.

It can also work as a classical tragedy, for a Shep who is so determined to oppose the machines that he doesn't take the victory that's right in front of him because he can't accept anything the Catalyst says.

[AlanC9]

XEternalXDreamsX wrote...

There will be another civilization, just not the one that has formed in that cycle. The Prothean race did a good job of taking over the Milky Way, they could have streched even farther if not for the Reapers. Refusal brings about change like our own human history. Don't worry about ol' Shep, He/She will can survive point-blank blast of the "destroy" ray.. I'm pretty sure he/she can go into hiding during his Refusal "ray".

Sure. I just meant that what happens to those particular planets will be worse than nuclear winter and pre civilization.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

@AlanC9

True that. Most likely no life will come out of it due to anything being destroyed. xD

[Necrotron]

*shrug* I don't really see the point in a petition.

Modifié par Bathaius, 24 juillet 2012 - 03:03 .

[ld1449]

So is this petition/poll actually going to be sent to Bioware or someone?

Because at this point I'm not even sure if they even bother reading through their own forums. The drew vs Mac thread had some real vitriol thrown around against Mac and Casey and no lockdown to be found.

So yeah, I doubt they read through the story forums anymore.

[incinerator950]

AresKeith wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

*shrugs* You just can't see the bigger picture.

The Reapers have harvested thousands of cycles. One more makes no diference in the bigger picture.

You are just too emtionally attached to all those fictious characters and data bits.

well your playing a game series where you get attached to the characters in the game, sooo

and if your not, then you aren't a true Mass Effect fan

[AlanC9]

ld1449 wrote...

So is this petition/poll actually going to be sent to Bioware or someone?

Because at this point I'm not even sure if they even bother reading through their own forums. The drew vs Mac thread had some real vitriol thrown around against Mac and Casey and no lockdown to be found.

So yeah, I doubt they read through the story forums anymore.

Oh, they pay attention all right. If they don't read it themselves they have the board data-mined

[darthoptimus003]

and the point is that some people like the endings now and others dont
why not just give the ones who dont there ending it would end the debates and hostility on these forums
personally the refusal ending was a middle finger to the fans
and one of the devs said we dont know how to write that ending is BS cause we beat the reapers convinally in all 3 games the codex even said it was possible and it was even stated in the game by garrus that it was happening on his homeworld
this whole thing is just lazyness by 2 of the devs that tryed to do it on their own and failed misserably
hell people even said theyd pay for it so just do it
and yes with the way the current ending is the other 2 games have been made void and the replablity is nonexsisant
i paid for a game with an ending what we got has NO ending it leaves more questions than answers and all the promises that were made turned out to be flat out lies
i want to see my happy ending that is what i paid for
i didnt pay $300+ and spend that many hours just to imagine the ending
some like it {glad you do} wish i did
some dont {i sure as hell dont}
please give the ones that dont what we paid for

[ld1449]

AlanC9 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

So is this petition/poll actually going to be sent to Bioware or someone?

Because at this point I'm not even sure if they even bother reading through their own forums. The drew vs Mac thread had some real vitriol thrown around against Mac and Casey and no lockdown to be found.

So yeah, I doubt they read through the story forums anymore.

Oh, they pay attention all right. If they don't read it themselves they have the board data-mined

Then they've been REALLY quiet. *shrug*

[3DandBeyond]

This thread is partly about trying to wage a war with some conventional and some unconventional means and tactics and innovative use of weaponry and tech.  I fully understand the writers needed to make this impossible so they could use a MacGuffin (crucible) and Deus ex Machina (kid and his citadel) as substitutes for writing an actual fight.  There could have been some imaginative things done instead of this and even so the refuse ending could lead to imaginative uses of the things that exist in the ME universe without resorting to super space magic and fantasy.

From the wiki a quote of the codex from ME.

"Reaper Vulnerabilities

Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.

Unlike the mass effect relays that they created, Reapers do not have quantum shields. Locking itself down at a quantum level would leave a Reaper unaware of its surroundings until the shielding deactivated. Instead, Reapers rely on kinetic barriers.

In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction. Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series, show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.

The barriers of a Reaper destroyer are less formidable than those of a capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to disable or demolish a destroyer if they can get within range before they are themselves destroyed.

The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's kinetic barriers at only partial strength.

Sovereign was destroyed while assuming direct control over Saren. The feedback from Saren's death seemed to entirely overload Sovereign's shields. Current Reapers do not seem to suffer from this design flaw.

Reaper capital ships can turn faster than Citadel dreadnoughts, but to do so, they must lower their mass to a level unacceptable in combat situations. Consequently, it is possible for a dreadnought to emerge from FTL travel behind a capital ship, then bring its guns to bear faster than the Reaper can return fire. This is a poor tactic, however, against Reapers flying in proper formation"

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 24 juillet 2012 - 03:04 .

[AlanC9]

I thought it was about victory through Refusal, myself. Meaning everything about ME3's the same except that Refuse somehow works.

And, again, the Crucible doesn't qualify as a MacGuffin. Its function is vital to the plot.

As for whether an alternate version of ME3 could have involved conventional victory; sure, it could have. Retconning the Battle of the Citadel would have been easy enough, and they could have invented all kinds of new tech stuff to make up the difference

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 juillet 2012 - 03:26 .