712 réponses à ce sujet

[Skirata129]

Hey, if we keep up the pressure, it's possible.

[jetfire118]

I heard everyone looked at mac with "your dead to me" look...and Casey is going through some depression issues.... And Shepard is just face palming at both Bioware and his "Perfect" fans.

[kopfentot]

I think they could have added a scene with a cruel massacre, and dramatic death of your companions. But in no way you should be able to defeat the reapers conventionally, the protheans who apparently were more advanced than the current cycle couldn't so there's no reason races in this cycle should be able.

[kopfentot]

You just can't beat a several billions years old civilization with whatever a single human has been doing for the past 3 years.

[Blueprotoss]

ddraigcoch123 wrote...

@ Blueprotoss yeah like i said done talking to ya now... not really moving anything forward and now you want me to talk about cooking implements... very strange

@ Shallyah yeah... um think you may have stepped a little to deeply into the 'galaxy' than you may realise... i am playing the vid game through my controller that is on the screen in front of me... really dont care what happened through thousands of cycles in the past or if they happen in the future, its a fiction and a game... so only really interested in 'winning' 'playing' now...

Yes i am emotionally invested in the characters and the 'universe' created for them (also read the books and comics and now thankfully fan fiction as well) that kinda is the point of a ROLE PLAYING GAME... playing the ROLE... your avatar is your vehical, the way you 'enter' that world...

Truth is there is no 'bigger picture'... that galaxy does not exist outside the game... and doesnt exist when i'm not playing it... 

Sorry if i am missing your point...

Haters gonna hate even when you're trying to turn opinion into fact.  I'm surprised you aren't yellling unnesscarily ar Bioware for doing what they want to do wuth their own IP.

[Blueprotoss]

3DandBeyond wrote...

This thread is partly about trying to wage a war with some conventional and some unconventional means and tactics and innovative use of weaponry and tech.  I fully understand the writers needed to make this impossible so they could use a MacGuffin (crucible) and Deus ex Machina (kid and his citadel) as substitutes for writing an actual fight.  There could have been some imaginative things done instead of this and even so the refuse ending could lead to imaginative uses of the things that exist in the ME universe without resorting to super space magic and fantasy.

From the wiki a quote of the codex from ME.

"Reaper Vulnerabilities

Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.

Unlike the mass effect relays that they created, Reapers do not have quantum shields. Locking itself down at a quantum level would leave a Reaper unaware of its surroundings until the shielding deactivated. Instead, Reapers rely on kinetic barriers.

In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction. Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series, show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.

The barriers of a Reaper destroyer are less formidable than those of a capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to disable or demolish a destroyer if they can get within range before they are themselves destroyed.

The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's kinetic barriers at only partial strength.

Sovereign was destroyed while assuming direct control over Saren. The feedback from Saren's death seemed to entirely overload Sovereign's shields. Current Reapers do not seem to suffer from this design flaw.

Reaper capital ships can turn faster than Citadel dreadnoughts, but to do so, they must lower their mass to a level unacceptable in combat situations. Consequently, it is possible for a dreadnought to emerge from FTL travel behind a capital ship, then bring its guns to bear faster than the Reaper can return fire. This is a poor tactic, however, against Reapers flying in proper formation"

Reapers can be killed when the odds don't favor them while the fact that they aren't immortal isn't a factor since the Protheans should have won by your logic.

[Blueprotoss]

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...
The lore has nothing to do with it and no, you wouldn't have to rewrite the whole trilogy.  The reapers are not invincible. 

So, it makes infinitely more sense to have a super duper space magic citadel/crucible/"kid" choice machine that changes "DNA", or allows Shepard's intelligence to be uploaded into not a reaper but what the Citadel, just like the kid, but using Thanix cannons, Javelin Missiles, and so on are completely out of line with ME's lore?  Apparently, we've been playing different games.

Reapers are potentially vulnerable to a lot of things. None of this is explored because it would make the game longer, not because it would not fit the lore. What we have doesn't fit the lore at all. 

Exactly, they had EA's deadline to deal with.  They never should have accepted EA's investment.

Thats a huge straw-mann since ME3 developement and production started alongside ME2 while games do have to eventually come out even when some people would have been angry no matter what based on ME3 being the last game in Shepard's arc.

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Actually from what I understand they were doing a merger with a different company who's name I can't recall and then EA went and bought the merging company, buying Bioware along with it. It was actually an incredulously raised eyebrow moment because the person that owned the company EA bought actually used to work for EA and left them, which definitely made people throw a question or two around.

EA is known for pulling crap like that, so no surprise.

Pot calling the kettle black based on how most Publishers will eventually do this to their Developers like Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, Sega, Ubisoft, Capcom, Square Enix, Valve, Blizzard, Activision, Namco, and 2K to name a few. 

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

Kastrenzo wrote...

they aren't going to change it. they're just going to ignore all the complaints about the ending now.

I agree, not that I want it to be true, but the simple fact is that it is indeed true.

This is very true. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 30 juillet 2012 - 03:23 .

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

well they could keep adding on to the ending, so everyone will be happy

Everyone will never be happy especially when you're a prime example of unhappiness with some of your bickering.

[ld1449]

jetfire118 wrote...

I heard everyone looked at mac with "your dead to me" look...and Casey is going through some depression issues.... And Shepard is just face palming at both Bioware and his "Perfect" fans.

Where'd you hear this?

Or is my joke ometer malfunctioning again:crying:

[ld1449]

AlanC9 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...
It has dialogue, and people REALISE what's happening. I had a friend that called me up on the phone  when he first got to the ending, didn't bother pausing as he asked and I quote "What the **** is this ****?"

By the time he was done ranting crit. mission, failure. So again, hardly an ending

Was it wrong of me to lol at that?

refusal was a big middle finger so of course they wouldn't really go as far as to add a trophy/achievement for it.

Really? I thought it was a valid RP option. Bio should let players make bad choices more often than they do.

And Refuse isn't "arguably" worst. It's just worst. in order to not kill the geth you.... let the Reapers kill the geth.

No its not wrong to laugh at it

And it was a middle finger. They specifically added an option to refuse the starchild which is what most players wanted only they made it so that everyone dies.

It was a deliberate and pointed jab at those dissatisfied with the Starchild.

And I'd argue Synthesis is the worst option. It is repugnant on almost every stand point, morally ethically and literary. It has nothing to justify it.

[ThaDPG]

kopfentot wrote...

I think they could have added a scene with a cruel massacre, and dramatic death of your companions. But in no way you should be able to defeat the reapers conventionally, the protheans who apparently were more advanced than the current cycle couldn't so there's no reason races in this cycle should be able.

But the protheans also didn't have a whole united galaxy behind them

[Vilegrim]

It would have been nice to at least have the next cycle win without space hitler, but that ship has sailed.

[Blueprotoss]

ld1449 wrote...
No its not wrong to laugh at it

And it was a middle finger. They specifically added an option to refuse the starchild which is what most players wanted only they made it so that everyone dies.

It was a deliberate and pointed jab at those dissatisfied with the Starchild.

A small group of "fans" don't make up the majority and the real middle finger came from those "fans" sending death threats or petty insults to Bioware.

ld1449 wrote... 

And I'd argue Synthesis is the worst option. It is repugnant on almost every stand point, morally ethically and literary. It has nothing to justify it.

If thats the case then Saren wouldn't have chosen Synthesis and it wouldn't have been a theme throughout ME.  Btw I don't care for Synthesis while its still an option even when you don't like it.

[Blueprotoss]

ThaDPG wrote...

kopfentot wrote...

I think they could have added a scene with a cruel massacre, and dramatic death of your companions. But in no way you should be able to defeat the reapers conventionally, the protheans who apparently were more advanced than the current cycle couldn't so there's no reason races in this cycle should be able.

But the protheans also didn't have a whole united galaxy behind them

The Protheans did have a united galaxy behind them but those races were tried as slaves.

[ThaDPG]

Blueprotoss wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

kopfentot wrote...

I think they could have added a scene with a cruel massacre, and dramatic death of your companions. But in no way you should be able to defeat the reapers conventionally, the protheans who apparently were more advanced than the current cycle couldn't so there's no reason races in this cycle should be able.

But the protheans also didn't have a whole united galaxy behind them

The Protheans did have a united galaxy behind them but those races were tried as slaves.

Agreed, but I would think rather than having unwilling slaves to throw against the Reapers, having the greatest military minds of all the allied races working together to come up with a plan of attack would be more effective

[AlanC9]

ld1449 wrote...


And it was a middle finger. They specifically added an option to refuse the starchild which is what most players wanted only they made it so that everyone dies.

It was a deliberate and pointed jab at those dissatisfied with the Starchild.

And not a way to let us RP a Shep who pulls a Rorshach and refuses to compromise even in the face of Armageddon? Well, I guess I can't disprove that without internal Bio memos or mind-reading.

And I'd argue Synthesis is the worst option. It is repugnant on almost every stand point, morally ethically and literary. It has nothing to justify it.

The nobody-getting-exterminated thing doesnt score any points with you?

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

well they could keep adding on to the ending, so everyone will be happy

Everyone will never be happy especially when you're a prime example of unhappiness with some of your bickering.

and no one will be happy until you get reported for harassment

[incinerator950]

Blueprotoss wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

kopfentot wrote...

I think they could have added a scene with a cruel massacre, and dramatic death of your companions. But in no way you should be able to defeat the reapers conventionally, the protheans who apparently were more advanced than the current cycle couldn't so there's no reason races in this cycle should be able.

But the protheans also didn't have a whole united galaxy behind them

The Protheans did have a united galaxy behind them but those races were tried as slaves.

Or moved on up from slaves to just members of the Empire.  Regardless of their status, the important problem is the Prothean Empire was cut off because of the Citadel.  I'm assuming the heart of the Empire also had a large defense force in position, likely wiped out when the Reapers poured throught the Darkspace Relay.  Even better, the actual communications and Relay blackouts that would segment force responses.  

Oh, and the constant battles of attritian leading to the high number of indoctrinated beings.

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

well they could keep adding on to the ending, so everyone will be happy

Everyone will never be happy especially when you're a prime example of unhappiness with some of your bickering.

and no one will be happy until you get reported for harassment

The only harassment here is coming from you especially when we're talking about differing opinions with a video game series that millions of people still play.  Everything won't be liked by everyone just based solely on general opinion.

[incinerator950]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

well they could keep adding on to the ending, so everyone will be happy

Everyone will never be happy especially when you're a prime example of unhappiness with some of your bickering.

and no one will be happy until you get reported for harassment

The only harassment here is coming from you especially when we're talking about differing opinions with a video game series that millions of people still play.  Everything won't be liked by everyone just based solely on general opinion.

I'm certainly disliked, used to have a mixed hatred/love on ACFA, used to be the #3 hated player on Dead Space 2 (360) and I'm certainly not liked to get along here.

Oh, and I've been banned for telling two members to go kill themselves for crying on the forum.  Its amazing how the BSN mods don't know how to differentiate a ban and a suspension.

[Blueprotoss]

ThaDPG wrote...

Agreed, but I would think rather than having unwilling slaves to throw against the Reapers, having the greatest military minds of all the allied races working together to come up with a plan of attack would be more effective

Thats true and I also see what you mean but the only way for a conventional victory is to outnumber the Reapers and overwelm them one by one.  After the Reaper Invasion that becomes useless since the Reaper can just harvest to create more husks or Reapers.

incinerator950 wrote...

Or moved on up from slaves to just members of the Empire.  Regardless of their status, the important problem is the Prothean Empire was cut off because of the Citadel.  I'm assuming the heart of the Empire also had a large defense force in position, likely wiped out when the Reapers poured throught the Darkspace Relay.  Even better, the actual communications and Relay blackouts that would segment force responses.  

Oh, and the constant battles of attritian leading to the high number of indoctrinated beings.

Agreed.  Either way the Reapers have most of the advanatages whether what cycle occured. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 30 juillet 2012 - 05:27 .

[Ukomba]

incinerator950 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

kopfentot wrote...

I think they could have added a scene with a cruel massacre, and dramatic death of your companions. But in no way you should be able to defeat the reapers conventionally, the protheans who apparently were more advanced than the current cycle couldn't so there's no reason races in this cycle should be able.

But the protheans also didn't have a whole united galaxy behind them

The Protheans did have a united galaxy behind them but those races were tried as slaves.

Or moved on up from slaves to just members of the Empire.  Regardless of their status, the important problem is the Prothean Empire was cut off because of the Citadel.  I'm assuming the heart of the Empire also had a large defense force in position, likely wiped out when the Reapers poured throught the Darkspace Relay.  Even better, the actual communications and Relay blackouts that would segment force responses.  

Oh, and the constant battles of attritian leading to the high number of indoctrinated beings.

Not to mention most of their leaders would have been taken immediately. 
If your emperor is indoctrinated and starts giving bad orders, it could be massively
damaging before anyone steps in to stop it.  Also the Citadel would have
been full of information.  The reapers would have known where everything
was, how strong they were, and what their weaknesses were.  The Prothians
might have been able to win, in a stand up fight, but they didn't get the same
chance Shepards cycle did.  Even so, they
lasted centuries.

 

The Reapers are vulnerable for the same reason the Protians
were vulnerable.  They have a single
tactic and really aren’t good at adapting. 
A single loss is also devastating to them since their ability to replace
lost ships is minimal, they have to risk more ships in a massive harvesting
effort to even attempt to create a single new ship.  Once the reapers start loosing, their done,
they can’t replenish their numbers, they can’t change their tactics, and their
technology doesn’t advance.  It’s very
clear that the longer a war drags out, the worse it goes for them.  This reality shows in their tactics.  They have to over whelm immediately.

If they actualy played the 4th ending out, the aliance could have eventualy devleoped stronger weapons, pulled hit and run surpise attacks,and built up foces to the point where they could win.  The prothians devleoped a way to detect indoctrinated people, and they had just inveted mass relay technology.  Compact mass realay technology.  Imagine a mini-relay like that mounted in a warhead.

Modifié par Ukomba, 30 juillet 2012 - 05:47 .

[ThaDPG]

Blueprotoss wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

Agreed, but I would think rather than having unwilling slaves to throw against the Reapers, having the greatest military minds of all the allied races working together to come up with a plan of attack would be more effective

Thats true and I also see what you mean but the only way for a conventional victory is to outnumber the Reapers and overwelm them one by one.  After the Reaper Invasion that becomes useless since the Reaper can just harvest to create more husks or Reapers.
 

I do remember Javik mentioning it took centuries, and generations for the Reapers to finally wipe the Protheans out completely.  As long as everyone stands united, they could possibly continue to fight the Reapers, but at the same time have a research team made up of all the best and brightest from all the different races(that are left anyway) working on and/or expanding on finding or exploiting the few weaknesses the Reapers have.  We do know they're not completely invincible, but it does require a very good plan and lots of teamwork to take just 1 down.

[ThaDPG]

Ukomba wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

kopfentot wrote...

I think they could have added a scene with a cruel massacre, and dramatic death of your companions. But in no way you should be able to defeat the reapers conventionally, the protheans who apparently were more advanced than the current cycle couldn't so there's no reason races in this cycle should be able.

But the protheans also didn't have a whole united galaxy behind them

The Protheans did have a united galaxy behind them but those races were tried as slaves.

Or moved on up from slaves to just members of the Empire.  Regardless of their status, the important problem is the Prothean Empire was cut off because of the Citadel.  I'm assuming the heart of the Empire also had a large defense force in position, likely wiped out when the Reapers poured throught the Darkspace Relay.  Even better, the actual communications and Relay blackouts that would segment force responses.  

Oh, and the constant battles of attritian leading to the high number of indoctrinated beings.

Not to mention most of their leaders would have been taken immediately. 
If your emperor is indoctrinated and starts giving bad orders, it could be massively
damaging before anyone steps in to stop it.  Also the Citadel would have
been full of information.  The reapers would have known where everything
was, how strong they were, and what their weaknesses were.  The Prothians
might have been able to win, in a stand up fight, but they didn't get the same
chance Shepards cycle did.  Even so, they
lasted centuries.

 

The Reapers are vulnerable for the same reason the Protians
were vulnerable.  They have a single
tactic and really aren’t good at adapting. 
A single loss is also devastating to them since their ability to replace
lost ships is minimal, they have to risk more ships in a massive harvesting
effort to even attempt to create a single new ship.  Once the reapers start loosing, their done,
they can’t replenish their numbers, they can’t change their tactics, and their
technology doesn’t advance.  It’s very
clear that the longer a war drags out, the worse it goes for them.  This reality shows in their tactics.  They have to over whelm immediately.

If they actualy played the 4th ending out, the aliance could have eventualy devleoped stronger weapons, pulled hit and run surpise attacks,and built up foces to the point where they could win.  The prothians devleoped a way to detect indoctrinated people, and they had just inveted mass relay technology.  Compact mass realay technology.  Imagine a mini-relay like that mounted in a warhead.

Sorry Ukomba, didn't see your response until I had already posted mine, but they say basically the same thing lol

[ld1449]

AlanC9 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...


And it was a middle finger. They specifically added an option to refuse the starchild which is what most players wanted only they made it so that everyone dies.

It was a deliberate and pointed jab at those dissatisfied with the Starchild.

And not a way to let us RP a Shep who pulls a Rorshach and refuses to compromise even in the face of Armageddon? Well, I guess I can't disprove that without internal Bio memos or mind-reading.

And I'd argue Synthesis is the worst option. It is repugnant on almost every stand point, morally ethically and literary. It has nothing to justify it.

The nobody-getting-exterminated thing doesnt score any points with you?

Depends on what you mean by exterminated.

Are they alive, certainly, but seeing as how they're all just blatantly cooperating with the Reapers like nothing ever went wrong not only is it illogical, and nonsensical it makes it feel like the tranquil from Dragon age. Sure they SEEM content but look at Karl from DA2 pull the veil from his eyes and he can see how wrong it really is.

So I do see it as an extermination. Its an extermination of individuality and diversity rather than loss of life but its extermination none the less.