50 réponses à ce sujet

[Dealman]

So, I've had Mass Effect 3 for a while now and played quite a bit of Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer. Infiltrator has been one of my favourite classes to play due to the effectiveness against "elite" enemies(Pre-patch, now fairly useless.).

I left Mass Effect 3 for a few months since I didn't have enough time to play, and came back just about 2 weeks ago. And I noticed there had been quite a few changes - for example, I remember the Infiltrator with Wdiow + Armour-Piercing worked very well on armoured elite units, such as the Atlas and Prime.

Now? Not at all, I used to like Infiltrator due to the sheer power with the Widow + Cloak, and it felt really like you were supporting the team, now the Infiltrator feels just dull, weak and boring. Widow used to deal a huge chunk of damage if you managed to pull off a headshot, now it barely does the same amount of damage as the M-99 Saber.

Since the Widow is bolt-action and slow to reload, it's just utterly unfair that they took away headshot damage on elite units!

Also something that has buggered me since day 1 is the fact that you do not deal full damage if you're not using the scope, I mean, come on, what the hell? In what possible way is that fair? I've always hoped that this was a bug, but I assume it's some way of "balancing" Infiltrator, I mean come on. Infiltrator used to be very good - as support. That's why it was fun to play, yet not overpowered(Look at Vanguards if you want overpowered).

It doesn't even make sense! "Use the scope to deal extra damage! Durp!" It's not like it's easier to no-scope than it is to use the scope, rather the opposite,  really.

Also, Tactical Cloak seems to be really broken. The AI "notice" when you're aiming at them while cloaked, and most of the times move out of cover. And sometimes they just ignore the cloak all together.

Geth Rocket Trooper is a great example! Geth Rocket Troopers always seem to shoot me, even while cloaked! Have I missed something? Do they have the Geth Hunter ability thing?

Also something that really has to be fixed to bring the Infiltrator in line with other classes is the fact if you take down an enemies shield in 1 shot - it won't damage the health. Even though it should!

Infiltrator really feels like one of the weakest classes in the game now, where as it used to feel really powerful and fun but not outright overpowered like the Vanguards feel.

Come on, BioWare, you can do better than this.  

Modifié par Dealman, 17 juillet 2012 - 09:47 .

[jaydubs67]

Dealman wrote...

Infiltrator really feels like one of the weakest classes in the game now...

 

Bwahahahahahaha.  

I really want to get into this, but it's DLC day.  So I can't.  <_<  

[Crimson Vanguard]

ehm QMI+Reegar waste everything

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

   I definitely find that reducing the base duration of tactical Cloak to half of what it was unneccessary. What game balance issue was that supposed to fix?

[Biotic_Warlock]

OP started playing after Infi nerf?

[GGW KillerTiger]

No infiltrators are finally balanced. I mean they could reset the enemies sight range on cloak or make it a little longer but other than that it seems fine now.

[Ankarah]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

ehm QMI+Reegar waste everything

the op is obviously referring to his sniper-yielding infiltrators,

in what universe does throwing a random  "shotgun infiltrators waste everything" one liner in there do you think will help or contribute anything useful to him or to this thread?

Modifié par Ankarah, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:03 .

[IndigoVitare]

Broken. Not in need of a buff at all. It's still the best class in the game and needs nerfing, but not dramatically. What it mainly needs is fixing.

So let's see what I can come up with...

First I'd like to point out a problem: The Infiltrator is a class that can use any weapon. Due to the window of damage bonus they can freely use Automatic weapons to great effect. This shouldn't be the case. I consider it imperetive that Tactical Cloak be patched to only apply the damage bonus to the first shot. This is what the class should be. Some will argue that this reduces variation, I counter that this is the point.

As I understand it, the three main complaints from Infiltrators and non-infiltrators alike are:

1. Enemies sometimes see through Tactical Cloak. Sometimes they continue shooting where the player was before. Sometimes they wander away. Tactical Cloak is unreliable.
2. Tactical Cloak [when it works] increases the amount of fire allies take as enemies stop attacking the Infiltrator and start attacking them.
3. Damage is still favoured over Duration, despite the fact that this cripples some teams.

How I would solve these:

1. Ineffective Radius: Enemies within a certain distance can see the cloaked Infiltrator, enemies outside it cannot. Add a slight delay on the detection so that clipping the radius doesn't instantly reveal the Infiltrator. Though this could be considered a nerf, it DOES make Tactical Cloak a lot more reliable. With distance being the main factor. It also encourages the use of Sniper Rifles, which is supposed to be the Infiltrator's favourite weapon.
2. When an Infiltrator cloaks, rather than moving on, the AI continues firing at the last position of the Infiltrator. After a brief time they may send over people to wander around searching for them (this might be too hard to implement). This period should last for the duration of the damage specced Tactical Cloak. It essentially creates an invisible decoy to absorb fire and prevent allies from taking the full brunt of the enemies' attacks whenever the Infiltrator wants to run somewhere else.
3. Adde more benefits to Duration. Specifically a massive reduction in the Ineffective Radius of point 1 whenever the player stands still, such as when hacking terminals in the 1234 operation. Potentially also a blanket reduction in the Ineffective Radius.

Thoughts?

[Chozo_Lord]

It seems pointless to snipe in gold with the shield gate. Luckily infiltrator + shotgun still sort of works.

[Master Xanthan]

The infiltrator is fine, they don't need a nerf or a buff.

[Dealman]

Just because the Infiltrator works good with the Reegar doesn't make the class itself overpowered now, does it? The Reegar is awesome at taking down Shields and Barriers very rapidly - but very ineffective against Armoured units.

I prefer to go Sniper only(With a very light-weight Tempest, in case) and my Cloak cooldown was just short enough to finish just after I finished reloading.

I don't get how you think Infiltrators could be overpowered in any way, I mean, look at Vanguards. They absolutely wipe the floor with everything, Vanguard is the class that works with every weapon. Infiltrator, sure, to some degree - but how is that unfair?

Just because it's called Infiltrator, doesn't mean it should be limited to Snipers, optimal? Sure, but still effective with other weapons.

Vanguard is said to be a High-Risk, High-Reward class. This is true to some degree, but there really is no risk involved in my opinion. Vanguard and Vorcha Sentinel is by far the easiest classes to play, they will always top the scoreboard no questions asked. I've managed to solo Silver with both, Gold didn't go as well, but came a lot further with the Vanguard than I did with the Vorcha Sentinel.

Infiltrator? Didn't even survive the first wave.

@Biotic_Warlock: No, I played quite a bit before the Infiltrators were nerfed.

Really all the Infiltrator relies on is the sheer damage bonus from Cloak with a Sniper and the survivability with cloak. Both of which now feels to be entirely removed.

Every other class has a variety of good abilities, the Soldier for example is one of the best at AoE thanks to the awesome Frag Grenades.

And what does the Infiltrator get? A Sniper that deals huge damage - but in which is rendered poop on enemies with Shield.

Edit:

@IndigoVitare: Please, elaborate as to why you find the Infiltrator the best class in the game? Is it solely to the fact that the Cloak works with most weapons? How is that even a reason?

The Tactical Cloak is the Infiltrator's main ability, it's the only ability you really use except for the occasional grenades. If it were to be nerfed - they could as well remove it. And where would that leave the Infiltrator, huh?

Modifié par Dealman, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:18 .

[Gamemako]

Dear Mr. Dealman:

Please progress beyond Bronze.

Thanks,

The BSN.

[Dealman]

Gamemako wrote...

Dear Mr. Dealman:

Please progress beyond Bronze.

Thanks,

The BSN.

Dr Mr. Gamemako:

Instead of trying to be a smartass, how about you actually contribute to the Thread instead? I never play Bronze nowadays due to the ease and low amount of Cash/XP. Nowadays I mostly play Gold, and a little bit of Silver if my Characters are really low-leveled. Haven't tried Platinum yet.

Now if you have nothing better to contribute than this, please, don't even bother posting in this thread.

[Chealec]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

No infiltrators are finally balanced. I mean they could reset the enemies sight range on cloak or make it a little longer but other than that it seems fine now.

I normally disagree with almost everything you say ... but not this time; infiltrators feel about right atm - they're still one of the most powerful classes but they're not dominatingly powerful right now.

[Madeline Lightning]

The infiltrator needs a little more. I play it almost exclusively and the vanilla version of this before it was ruined by poor balancing choices, was better.

[DirtySHISN0]

Dealman wrote...

 due to the effectiveness against "elite" enemies(Pre-patch, now fairly useless.).


Infiltrator really feels like one of the weakest classes in the game now

 

We must not be playing the same game, you and i.

[slescens]

I have never been able to function as a sniper in any FPS game. Why, I don't know. I guess I like getting in people's faces to mess them up. But over the weekend, I tried the Salarian Infiltrator with Widow VI. And I must say, I had a blast. TC was specced for duration, recharge speed, and sniper damage. I used sniper rifle bonus equipment since I have an abundance because I never use them.

And the results were... a very fun game. (on silver with PuG's at least). Didn't want to try gold because this is literally the first time I attempted to play with a sniper infiltrator in this game, and it was a breeze. The powers synched really well. I could cloak, proxy mine/energy drain, shoot, reload, repeat all day long. Plus I took duration so I could find people to revive them and complete objectives as they came along.

The class seems fine to me. Quite competitive with other classes because it has its own niche. Honestly, instead of dealing with the big'uns, I found wiping out the little guys in a single shot to clear a path for the whole team to focus on the big guys worked out exceedingly well too. And the widow seemed to shred ravagers and marauders (after an energy drain) so the team only had a banshee or brute to focus on, instead of a banshee/brute, and a ravager, and a marauder shooting at you with his Phaeston XXVII of doom.

Just the fact that I could pick it up and make it work the first time I ever tried it tells me it is still a user friendly class to pick up, play, and have fun.

Yes I am also aware that my singular experience will not hold up in the logical progression argument court that many people here like to attend. Just passing on my first experience with a Sniper infiltrator.

Modifié par slescens, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:32 .

[IndigoVitare]

Dealman wrote...

@IndigoVitare: Please, elaborate as to why you find the Infiltrator the best class in the game? Is it solely to the fact that the Cloak works with most weapons? How is that even a reason?

The Tactical Cloak is the Infiltrator's main ability, it's the only ability you really use except for the occasional grenades. If it were to be nerfed - they could as well remove it. And where would that leave the Infiltrator, huh?

Dominates with any weapon.

Flawless, though admitedly buggy, defensive ability.

Weapon Damage output is only exceeded by the Soldier.

First team to beat Platinum. Top scoring player had FOUR TIMES the score of the second scoring player. More than the combined three others. class? Geth Infiltrator. Godless Paladin may be a great player, but that's just absurd.

Top speedrun? Four Infiltrators. All good players, but you can't say the class didn't do something to help.

[Dealman]

Seriously, those of you guys trying to be funny - don't bother. I'm not in the mood to bother with such childish behaviour.

What I ask for in this thread is your opinion about the Infiltrator and/or feedback about my point of view.

If you can't provide with any of the above, go to another Thread.

IndigoVitare wrote...
Dominates with any weapon.

Dominated with any weapon? Hardly. It's effective, not dominating. There are plenty of similar abilities that are much better - such as the faster rate of fire and whatnot. The Cloak is not tailored for assault rifles but more for Shotguns and Snipers. And it works the best with those - it's still effective with other weapons, which it should be. Since it's the only ability you really use.

IndigoVitare wrote...
Weapon Damage output is only exceeded by the Soldier.

You just pretty much invalidated your first point, goob job 

IndigoVitare wrote...
First team to beat Platinum. Top scoring player had FOUR TIMES the score of the second scoring player. More than the combined three others. class? Geth Infiltrator. Godless Paladin may be a great player, but that's just absurd.

Top speedrun? Four Infiltrators. All good players, but you can't say the class didn't do something to help.

And where are your sources to back this up? If it's just "your word" I won't believe it for even a second. I find it really hard to believe that the Infiltrator would have as much as 4 times the score that of the 2nd player. If that is the case, the rest of the team must have been fairly bad players where as the Infiltrator was a great one - and that doesn't make the Infiltrator overpowered either, does it?

Modifié par Dealman, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:41 .

[Anders028]

 Your using a single shot rifle.  Thats why you are finding the infiltrator weak.  Use Geth Plasma or Valiant and see if the Infiltrator class is weak

[Dealman]

Anders028 wrote...

 Your using a single shot rifle.  Thats why you are finding the infiltrator weak.  Use Geth Plasma or Valiant and see if the Infiltrator class is weak

The fact that this strategy is effective is not solely due to the Cloak - but the so infamous "Shield Gate". Since you're shooting a lot of bullets very rapidly, you won't be held back by the Shield Gate. Where as single-shot weapons will be.

Say if an enemy have 500 Health and 500 Shield, and your Sniper were to deal 800 points of damage, in Mass Effect 3 logic - the sniper would deal 800 damage, but in reality only 500, where as the rest 300 of the damage is just sent to the empty void where as it should damage the health.

Whether this is a bug or a feature - I do not know.

[budzai]

they just broke the sniper infiltrators... and the new earth DLC has an infiltrator who is totally melee specialist (yes the vangurad wasn't enough)... so stupid... we have no sniper class **** you BW....

[Gamemako]

Dealman wrote...

Dr Mr. Gamemako:

Instead of trying to be a smartass, how about you actually contribute to the Thread instead? I never play Bronze nowadays due to the ease and low amount of Cash/XP. Nowadays I mostly play Gold, and a little bit of Silver if my Characters are really low-leveled. Haven't tried Platinum yet.

Now if you have nothing better to contribute than this, please, don't even bother posting in this thread.

Mr. Dealman:

Allow me to express an equally-defensible idea: the sky is hot pink.

Your suggestion here is so comically absurd that it's essentially impossible to begin addressing it.

[DirtySHISN0]

budzai wrote...

they just broke the sniper infiltrators... and the new earth DLC has an infiltrator who is totally melee specialist (yes the vangurad wasn't enough)... so stupid... we have no sniper class **** you BW....

Weapons are interchangeable, you can snipe with any class.

I think what you mean is we have no sniper infiltrator.



and before you say it, infiltrate doesn't mean to snipe.

[Dealman]

Gamemako wrote...
Mr. Dealman:

Allow me to express an equally-defensible idea: the sky is hot pink.

Your suggestion here is so comically absurd that it's essentially impossible to begin addressing it.

If you're here to troll, then I suggest you go elsewhere. I really can't stand such childish behaviour, go troll all you want - but stay away from my Thread, that's all I ask for. Is that so hard to do?

 

budzai wrote...
they just broke the sniper infiltrators... and the new earth DLC has an infiltrator who is totally melee specialist (yes the vangurad wasn't enough)... so stupid... we have no sniper class **** you BW....

Personally I haven't unlocked the new Infiltrator class so I can't say anything about it, but it seems cool. I don't see any issue with having a melee oriented Infiltrator.