50 réponses à ce sujet

[Meatiershower]

Dealman wrote...

So, I've had Mass Effect 3 for a while now and played quite a bit of Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer. Infiltrator has been one of my favourite classes to play due to the effectiveness against "elite" enemies(Pre-patch, now fairly useless.).
 

Stopped reading right there.

[Selvec_Darkon]

Infiltrator is one of the best classes in the game. Stick a shotgun on that mo-fo, go duration evolution on tactical cloak, and watch your enemy fall.

[MuKen]

I don't mean this in any condescendig way at all OP, but as a totally serious question.  Do you seriously play other classes, or just casual them while you play infiltrator as your main?

Because I haven't seen anybody who's a legitimate "play all the classes" player who thinks the infiltrators are in any way underpowered.  Only people who main infiltrators, and think that the pre-nerf god-infiltrator is the "baseline" for what a class should be, despite the fact that no other classes even touch that.

I play everything with my friends, but on the few occasions I'm PUGging, I go with the one class I know I can drag a team of complete bums to extraction with: the infiltrator.  He is tied with other classes for best DPS, while outdoing any of those DPS classes by a HUGE margin for general utility.  No other class is this well-rounded and powerful at the same time.  That's right now, post-nerf.  Infiltrator is still the best class, just not by as much.  Which is just fine.

Modifié par MuKen, 17 juillet 2012 - 11:01 .

[budzai]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

budzai wrote...

they just broke the sniper infiltrators... and the new earth DLC has an infiltrator who is totally melee specialist (yes the vangurad wasn't enough)... so stupid... we have no sniper class **** you BW....

Weapons are interchangeable, you can snipe with any class.

I think what you mean is we have no sniper infiltrator.



and before you say it, infiltrate doesn't mean to snipe.

http://allthingsd.co...ou-Dont-Say.jpg

Infiltrators were snipers since ME1...

[Whitemexican]

while i don't particularly like the nerf to infiltrators, they are FAR from the weakest class, they are still tied for the top to be honest.

i don't know if Bioware is able to track gun usage and points scored, but if they could i'm sure when they were looking into balancing the infiltrators they saw just how many useless sniping infiltrators there were. Maybe i'm alone but i've noticed a trend through most shooting games (be it Gears, Halo, COD, BF,DayZ even) the snipers tend to be one of two things, useless and not team players, or ridiculous and amazing, but still often not team players. pre-nerfed infiltrators more often sat in the back taking potshots, and not helping the team overly much (top score doesn't mean that you helped the team the most), if anything that's why the sniping part of infiltrators got nerfed the most, while shotgunners/other weapons were barely touched.

besides infiltrators specializing in different areas (heck all classes being able to have variety) is good

Modifié par Whitemexican, 17 juillet 2012 - 11:03 .

[IndigoVitare]

Dealman wrote...

Dominated with any weapon? Hardly. It's effective, not dominating. There are plenty of similar abilities that are much better - such as the faster rate of fire and whatnot. The Cloak is not tailored for assault rifles but more for Shotguns and Snipers. And it works the best with those - it's still effective with other weapons, which it should be. Since it's the only ability you really use.

You just pretty much invalidated your first point, goob job 


And where are your sources to back this up? If it's just "your word" I won't believe it for even a second. I find it really hard to believe that the Infiltrator would have as much as 4 times the score that of the 2nd player. If that is the case, the rest of the team must have been fairly bad players where as the Infiltrator was a great one - and that doesn't make the Infiltrator overpowered either, does it?

Harrier, Indra, Hurricane. All amazing weapons anyway (well, maybe not the Indra. It's GOOD, but not as much as the other two), all fully automatic. I've seen these recommended for Infiltrators and recommended to be used on Infiltrators. Just yeterday I saw a HI with a Harrier tear through groups of Geth Hunters like they were made of paper. A single clip of a notoriously low ammo weapon wiping out spawns. 

No I didn't. Soldier is the weapon class, until the nerf it didn't even have that and now, it barely holds onto the title. I believe the difference is 10%, and only when AR is specced for weapon damage, which it usually isn't . Unlike Tactical Cloak, AR has to be SPECCED for defence, it doesn't just turn you invisible.

Thread about defeating Platinum:

http://social.biowar...ndex/13142354/1

[DirtySHISN0]

budzai wrote...


http://allthingsd.co...ou-Dont-Say.jpg

Infiltrators were snipers since ME1...

I think you need to look up the definition of infiltrate.

Edit; ME1 the game that had its entire combat system changed.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 17 juillet 2012 - 11:04 .

[MuKen]

budzai wrote...

http://allthingsd.co...ou-Dont-Say.jpg

Infiltrators were snipers since ME1...

There is no way you played ME2 on any decent difficulty level with an infiltrator using only a sniper.  There was not enough ammo for that.

[Dealman]

MuKen wrote...
I don't mean this in any condescendig way at all OP, but as a totally serious question.  Do you seriously play other classes, or just casual them while you play infiltrator as your main?

Because I haven't seen anybody who's a legitimate "play all the classes" player who thinks the infiltrators are in any way underpowered.  Only people who main infiltrators, and think that the pre-nerf god-infiltrator is the "baseline" for what a class should be, despite the fact that no other classes even touch that.

I play everything with my friends, but on the few occasions I'm PUGging, I go with the one class I know I can drag a team of complete bums to extraction with: the infiltrator.  He is tied with other classes for best DPS, while outdoing any of those DPS classes by a HUGE margin for general utility.  No other class is this well-rounded and powerful at the same time.  That's right now, post-nerf.  Infiltrator is still the best class, just not by as much.  Which is just fine.

I'm not a Jack of all Trades, not at all but I do play a very big variety of classes. And in all fairness I'm fairly sure my most played class would be the Sentinel. I just find it really enjoying to be the tank-kind of guy in a co-op game like this! 

I play Infiltrator quite a bit yeah, but I've had all classes up to level 20. Really can't guess what class I'd play the least, I'd say Adept but now that I think of it, I've played the Justicar a lot lately because of the bubble. Maybe Soldier I guess? I honestly can't tell, but Sentinel is the most played one, that's for sure!  

Also, I'm not asking for the Infiltrator to become just like it was pre-patch, but I think that something has to be done to bring the Infiltrator back in line. I could agree that pre-patch the Infiltrator maybe was a bit too all-around, but it still didn't beat the Vanguard in terms of effectiveiness and survivability.

Just that the Shield Gate and removal of headshot damage from elite units really, really damaged the Infiltrator class.

Edit: Also a quick off-topic question;

Am I the only one that leave matches where there is another player playing a class I want to play, but haven't unlocked? Lol, I find myself doing this the whole time. I really want to unlock the Paladin Sentinel to see what its like - but still don't want any "spoilers", so I leave them.

Am I a bad person because of this? 

Modifié par Dealman, 17 juillet 2012 - 11:13 .

[LadyAlekto]

Why is my first reaction "yay another infiltrator-as-crutch-user" that is horribly drowing in his own tears?

The only thing of the nerf i feel is that i cant be as slippery on hack objectives as before, a well played infiltrator is still the most versatile killing monster that can enter the field... its just not that easy anymore

YOU should try platinum, op

*cloaks laughing sadistically*

[StrawHatMoose]

Please, just leave the infiltrator alone. They are not one of the weakest classes in the game as you claim it to be. The thing with sniper infiltrators that screws people over the most is shield gate. But shield gate isn't only affecting infiltrators, it affects every other class in the game so don't use that as an excuse to say infiltrators are bad.
The widow does almost double the damage of a Saber, so I don't know where you get that from.
If bioware didn't want bosses to have headshots, it's their decision. Don't complain to us.
Shield has has been in the game since ME2, it affects both you and enemies. If they got rid of t fr enemies, they'd probably get rid of it for players too.
Slow reload can be countered by reload cancelling, which is pretty easy if you reload then QuickTime cloak.
Infiltrator is still the best class for burst weapon DPS, soldier being more sustained DPS. Infiltrators counted for 33% of characters in games (not see if it was I just gold or something) so there would be at least one infiltrator in each game. And do you know why? The class was so good at putting out quick bursts of high damage. Even after the balancing, it's still the best burst DPS.

[Chealec]

Let's just break this down, step by step

Dealman wrote...

Just because the Infiltrator works good with the Reegar doesn't make the class itself overpowered now, does it? The Reegar is awesome at taking down Shields and Barriers very rapidly - but very ineffective against Armoured units.

The infiltrator works best with sniper rifles and shotguns - this isn't very surprising TC seems to be designed to give large spikes to burst damage. The Reegar itself might not smash armour but chuck an armour piercing mod and incendiary ammo on it and you're good to go.

Dealman wrote...

I prefer to go Sniper only(With a very light-weight Tempest, in case) and my Cloak cooldown was just short enough to finish just after I finished reloading.

Fair enough, sniper infiltrator makes sense.

Dealman wrote...

I don't get how you think Infiltrators could be overpowered in any way, I mean, look at Vanguards. They absolutely wipe the floor with everything, Vanguard is the class that works with every weapon. Infiltrator, sure, to some degree - but how is that unfair?

Really, apart from the Kroguard, Vanguards on gold normally do very badly, or are at least situational - the Asari Vanguard for instance works very well against Cerberus, not so much anything else. I so very rarely see Vanguards wipe the floor on gold (decorate the floor with their corpses, yes); I've been playing since launch and I've seen a grand total of 2 GOOD gold Novaguards. They're not that easy to use well on gold.

Infiltrators on the other hand are probably the easiest class to use... are they overpowered now, not really - they're still very powerful but actually require a modicum of skill now.

Dealman wrote...

Just because it's called Infiltrator, doesn't mean it should be limited to Snipers, optimal? Sure, but still effective with other weapons.

They're effective with snipers, shotguns, some pistols, the Harrier and the Revenant (probably the Typhoon now as well - don't have it, can't say)... what more do you want? About the only things they don't excel with are the crappier assault rifles and SMGs (with the exception of the Hurricane)... but then, apart from caster classes who does?

Dealman wrote...

Vanguard is said to be a High-Risk, High-Reward class. This is true to some degree, but there really is no risk involved in my opinion. Vanguard and Vorcha Sentinel is by far the easiest classes to play, they will always top the scoreboard no questions asked. I've managed to solo Silver with both, Gold didn't go as well, but came a lot further with the Vanguard than I did with the Vorcha Sentinel.

No risk with a Vanguard... you've never been insta-killed straight out of a charge then? Nor had a marauder just shrug it off and punch you in the face? With the exception of the Kroguard (or the AV when I'm playing her on Dagger vs Cerberus) I cannot remember the last time I saw a Vanguard top the scoreboard in gold.

As far as I can tell, the Vorcha Sentinel is trash, especially in solo - it lacks any kind of synergy for solo play, at least the soldier can detonate fire explosions. It can kinda work in a team game if you've got a biotic to prime for the cluster grenades - but you're better of with a Drell Adept in almost all circumstances.

Dealman wrote...

Infiltrator? Didn't even survive the first wave.

How? Granted Tactical Cloak is far less effective in solo play (since you're the only target) but still...

Dealman wrote...

Really all the Infiltrator relies on is the sheer damage bonus from Cloak with a Sniper and the survivability with cloak. Both of which now feels to be entirely removed.

Not even remotely removed - I quite succesfully run sniper infils specced for damage and shotty infils specced for duration (and 1 shottie infil specced for damage)... you just have to choose now whether you want maximum damage or maximum effectiveness on 1,2,3,4 objectives, rather than being the class that did the MOST damage with weapons, the MOST damage with tech powers AND could cloak to avoid fire and complete 1,2,3,4 objectives!

(actually, if you spec for TC duration you'll still so the most damage, per shot, with weapons and powers - you still get a 40% damage buff when breaking cloak with TC at 1)

Dealman wrote...

Every other class has a variety of good abilities, the Soldier for example is one of the best at AoE thanks to the awesome Frag Grenades.

And what does the Infiltrator get? A Sniper that deals huge damage - but in which is rendered poop on enemies with Shield.

SI gets Energy Drain to strip enemy shields and replenish your own, and Proxy Mine - 2 incredibly useful skills

GI gets Hunter Mode and Proxy Mine - again both very useful

QFI gets Sabotage (my favourite secondary skill) and Sticky Grenades (OK not the best grenades but they can trigger tech bursts with Sabotage)

QMI gets Arc grenades, arguably the best grenades in the game and tactical scanner, one of the most team oriented skills there is (before the new equipment packs) probably second only to proxy mine.

Human Infil is the one that works least well, but with a Claymore and Cryo Blast is arguably the best Infiltrator against Reapers.

(don't have the Shadow yet)

And ALL of those skills that deal damage benefit from the TC damage boost making them more damaging on infils than engineers!


What do Soldiers generally get as secondary skills? Decent grenades, yes, but otherwise Concussive Shot or Carnage ... arguably 2 of the worst secondary skills in the game. Adrenaline Rush or Marksmanship are good - but they're best with Assault Rifles ... and apart from the Harrier (ultra-rare), the Typhoon (ultra-rare) and perhaps the Revenant (though accuracy at range is an issue) most of the assault rifles pale in comparison to shotguns or sniper rifles.

And with the exception of Adrenaline Rush - soldiers get NO bonuses to weapon damage apart from the class passive... that doesn't make them better than infiltrators with any gun but WORSE with most guns...plus  the Human Soldier is actually way more squishy than just about any infiltrator - they can't cloak to evade fire and at most they'll only have 825 health and shields (unless AR is active). Only the Krogan and Batarian soldiers have any kind of tankiness ... and they're both susceptible to Banshee grabs because they can't dodge.

As for the Human Soldier's crowd control ability? Yeah, it's rubbish when compared to the HE, GE, QME, QMI or even the Turan Sentinel.

[GeneralElectric]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Dealman wrote...

 due to the effectiveness against "elite" enemies(Pre-patch, now fairly useless.).


Infiltrator really feels like one of the weakest classes in the game now

 

We must not be playing the same game, you and i.

I'm with DirtySHISN0. No, Infiltrators don't pack the punch that they used to, but they are still kickass, particularly the Geth Infiltrator. That thing is the epitome of what a race/class should be because of its versatility.

OP, I get what you're saying if you want to use a gold level sniper rifle. The Widow feels clunky now, and that pretty much only leaves you with the Mantis (also clunky) or the Krysae (not a true sniper rifle), though both can still do wonders, it just takes more time. Once you move into ultra-rares, the Valiant (or Javelin on Geth) is killer. Or you can whip out a Claymore, Geth Pulse Shotgun, Graal Spike Thrower, or Piranha to get the job done. Perhaps it says something that there are more worthwhile shotguns for Infiltrators to use than there are sniper rifles... I don't think this means that the Infiltrator needs another nerf, but sniper rifles either need to be buffed or we need some better sniper options.

[Master Xanthan]

Dealman wrote...

Anders028 wrote...

 Your using a single shot rifle.  Thats why you are finding the infiltrator weak.  Use Geth Plasma or Valiant and see if the Infiltrator class is weak

The fact that this strategy is effective is not solely due to the Cloak - but the so infamous "Shield Gate". Since you're shooting a lot of bullets very rapidly, you won't be held back by the Shield Gate. Where as single-shot weapons will be.

Say if an enemy have 500 Health and 500 Shield, and your Sniper were to deal 800 points of damage, in Mass Effect 3 logic - the sniper would deal 800 damage, but in reality only 500, where as the rest 300 of the damage is just sent to the empty void where as it should damage the health.

Whether this is a bug or a feature - I do not know.

If you're having a problem with shield gate, just use the Salarian Infiltrator. Use Tac Cloak, Energy drain to knock out shields and then take your shot with the widow or whatever single shot sniper you are using. 

[Chealec]

Master Xanthan wrote...

Dealman wrote...

Anders028 wrote...

 Your using a single shot rifle.  Thats why you are finding the infiltrator weak.  Use Geth Plasma or Valiant and see if the Infiltrator class is weak

The fact that this strategy is effective is not solely due to the Cloak - but the so infamous "Shield Gate". Since you're shooting a lot of bullets very rapidly, you won't be held back by the Shield Gate. Where as single-shot weapons will be.

Say if an enemy have 500 Health and 500 Shield, and your Sniper were to deal 800 points of damage, in Mass Effect 3 logic - the sniper would deal 800 damage, but in reality only 500, where as the rest 300 of the damage is just sent to the empty void where as it should damage the health.

Whether this is a bug or a feature - I do not know.

If you're having a problem with shield gate, just use the Salarian Infiltrator. Use Tac Cloak, Energy drain to knock out shields and then take your shot with the widow or whatever single shot sniper you are using. 

Or use a shotgun (or the Krysae) - scattershot effectively ignores shieldgate.

[Annapurna]

It's broken in the sense that if you have a single-shot rifle, you're essentially useless as an infiltrator. The Mantis (which is a bit of an underrated gun) and the Widow become effectively useless on gold and platinum due to the shield gate, which completely defeats their intended purpose: one shot, one kill.

You're not nearly as boned, however, if you have a semi-automatic rifle (e.g. Valiant, Viper, Black Widow). So long as you can adjust your aim quickly enough, or have a power that can stagger an enemy, you can drop 2-3 shots in rapid fashion and take 'em down.

So, in short, if you use a one-shot rifle, well don't bother. If you have a semi-automatic, then there really isn't much difference between vanilla and post-patch infiltrators.

[Lord Thornos]

needs a buff

[Immortal Strife]

The infiltrator is not as good with snipers post path, now the shotgun infiltrator are the most effective-yeah I know that there are exceptions- I personally think it's BS but I can adjust. Here are some great shotguns that can be used well with infiltrators, the Claymore, Reager, Wraith, and Talon.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 18 juillet 2012 - 02:20 .

[budzai]

MuKen wrote...

budzai wrote...

http://allthingsd.co...ou-Dont-Say.jpg

Infiltrators were snipers since ME1...

There is no way you played ME2 on any decent difficulty level with an infiltrator using only a sniper.  There was not enough ammo for that.

that's a lie...

still the problem is the same we have no sniper class but we have 2 shotgun and none sniper rifle class...

[Tankcommander]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...
I definitely find that reducing the base duration of tactical Cloak to half of what it was unneccessary. What game balance issue was that supposed to fix?

Other changes I could gte behind, but this was just ludicrious.

[RxP4IN]

Please stop using Infiltrators for a week. Just ONE week. Come back to infiltrators afterwards and you'll feel stupid for writing this thread.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Dealman wrote...


Also something that has buggered me since day 1 is the fact that you do not deal full damage if you're not using the scope, I mean, come on, what the hell? In what possible way is that fair? I've always hoped that this was a bug, but I assume it's some way of "balancing" Infiltrator, I mean come on. Infiltrator used to be very good - as support. That's why it was fun to play, yet not overpowered(Look at Vanguards if you want overpowered).

It doesn't even make sense! "Use the scope to deal extra damage! Durp!" It's not like it's easier to no-scope than it is to use the scope, rather the opposite,  really.

 

This is what I agree with the OP. Scoped/Unscoped sniper bullet should deal the same damage.

The lack of weak point in boss units bothers me too, but they deal a lot of damage even to bosses even then, so it's ok.

As for single shot sniper rifles, the Javelin needs to partially ignore shield gate. Make it so that only headshots count for partially bypassing shield gate, and the Javelin will be great on Gold/Platinum as it should be since it's an UR without being completely OP. 

[corkey sweet]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

   I definitely find that reducing the base duration of tactical Cloak to half of what it was unneccessary. What game balance issue was that supposed to fix?

i agree,
 
  we don't need unnecessary changes. this is a co-op game after all, no pvp. so i don't see what a longer tactical cloak was hurting

[Kataigida]

Dealman wrote... 

I left Mass Effect 3 for a few months since I didn't have enough time to play, and came back just about 2 weeks ago. And I noticed there had been quite a few changes - for example, I remember the Infiltrator with Wdiow + Armour-Piercing worked very well on armoured elite units, such as the Atlas and Prime.

Now? Not at all, I used to like Infiltrator due to the sheer power with the Widow + Cloak, and it felt really like you were supporting the team, now the Infiltrator feels just dull, weak and boring. Widow used to deal a huge chunk of damage if you managed to pull off a headshot, now it barely does the same amount of damage as the M-99 Saber.

Since the Widow is bolt-action and slow to reload, it's just utterly unfair that they took away headshot damage on elite units!

If you feel this is the case, why not just use the Saber instead then? And besides...the Widow does deal more damage, it's just effected by shieldgate more...and Sabre is a UR, so it should be pretty good...

While I agree that I don't know why they took headshots off of some enemies (like the brute, banshee, and prime...) It's not like it wasn't a little unfair that one infiltrator with a widow/BW could take down a boss in about a half or less of the time that two or three other people would take it down together. 

Dealman wrote...  

Also something that has buggered me since day 1 is the fact that you do not deal full damage if you're not using the scope, I mean, come on, what the hell? In what possible way is that fair? I've always hoped that this was a bug, but I assume it's some way of "balancing" Infiltrator, I mean come on. Infiltrator used to be very good - as support. That's why it was fun to play, yet not overpowered(Look at Vanguards if you want overpowered).

It doesn't even make sense! "Use the scope to deal extra damage! Durp!" It's not like it's easier to no-scope than it is to use the scope, rather the opposite,  really.

I can't really say much about this fact, but the sad truth is that most games that use snipers have this incorporated for some reason. If you ever get into a situation where you need to no-scope with a sniper...its' better just to whip out your secondary sidearm instead.

Dealman wrote...  

Also, Tactical Cloak seems to be really broken. The AI "notice" when you're aiming at them while cloaked, and most of the times move out of cover. And sometimes they just ignore the cloak all together.

Geth Rocket Trooper is a great example! Geth Rocket Troopers always seem to shoot me, even while cloaked! Have I missed something? Do they have the Geth Hunter ability thing?

They won't notice you if you break the LoS (line of sight) and use cloak. However, if you do break the LoS and cloak, but you stay in the same place, the enemies will still be shooting at you and hit you. This is because the enemies are programmed to continue to shoot at the last place they saw an enemy, until they see another enemy. On numerous occasions I have broken the LoS as a non-infiltrator, slide through pieces of cover where they couldn't see me, and eventually got behind the enemies without them noticing, and all the while they were still focused on where I used to be, making it very easy for me to kill them until I started shooting.

The Rockets on the other hand, I think have auto-tracking...as in, if they are fired in your general direction, cloaking or not they are probably tracking you.

Dealman wrote...  

Also something that really has to be fixed to bring the Infiltrator in line with other classes is the fact if you take down an enemies shield in 1 shot - it won't damage the health. Even though it should!

Infiltrator really feels like one of the weakest classes in the game now, where as it used to feel really powerful and fun but not outright overpowered like the Vanguards feel.

Come on, BioWare, you can do better than this.  

While I too would like some way to bypass shield gate...I don't think they should give this ability to a single class. It would be better if they made a weapon mod (or mods) or some kind of consumable ammo mod that could bypass shield gate, rather than giving one class that mechanic, otherwise it would be a little unfair. Unless you use a shotgun anyway...then shieldgate doesn't matter.

It used to be that the infiltrator was both a strong support, and a strong striker-type class, while also having good survivability. No other class in the game could do as much as the infiltrator.

Now however, infiltrators have to choose between dealing damage, or speccing cloak for support (though they can still deal good damage as support). While still having fairly good survivability (just a little less as the damage type). The infiltrator WAS overpowered before the nerf, but now it is on-level with other classes.

As for the vanguard...the only one really OP is the Kroguard cause he is almost invicible... As for the other vanguards, good luck trying to play them on gold unless you are a really good player with them.

If you fight Cerberus:
-Charge Phantom, stagger it, kill it, get sync-killed by her sister that was around the corner
-Charge Atlas, stagger it, try and back up, get sync-killed
-Charge Anything around a corner, get nailed by a turret

Geth:
-Charge Hunter, stagger it, it shoots while staggered, stuns you, kills you
-Charge a group, stagger it, get killed by a Pyro just out of range of your stagger, but close enough for flames of doom

Reapers:
-Charge Brute, stagger it, sync-killed
-Charge Banshee, stagger it, magna-hands, sync-killed
-Charge anything around a corner, locked on by ravanger
-Charge a ravager, attacked by swarmers, kill ravager, standing in acid

Obviously these don't happen very often, but a good deal of the time I'm playing gold, the vanguard is the one that dies the most because he/she charges into a mob and gets wiped...

The best vanguards I have seen are either Asari that use charge less and stasis more, or Kroguards that are smart about their charges and keep their shields up. Vanguards really are the most high-risk-high-reward class...but I don't think they are OP, unless you're playing on bronze and sometimes silver...