So the petition for a Hi-Res Texture pack release for modders was closed as "spam" and requested we start a new topic for actual discussion, so this is my attempt.
I have been saying from day one that something is wrong with the textures. Poor, blurry, missing and just bad, background textures, exist all over this game. Foreground textures are Good to Great (Such as creatures, Armor, Faces etc) but most of the environmental are bland or very blurry. A dev here even posted that some textures appeared to not have their Hi-Res counterparts and we were assured this wasn't intentional.
Some good examples are the wagons, for poor texture (Very blurry, definately low-res) and the missing ash texture for under campfires (for missing textures, you'll notice there is a shiny waterlike substance under the logs instead of ash)
We have been requesting at fixes, updated textures, etc since release and have all but been shunned out since some initial contact. I'd like to discuss here peoples thoughts, opinions, agreeances or disagreeances.
Please note this is not a "This game looks like crap" or any form of bashing topic. I want constructive and actual discussion on the matter in hopes that BioWare would release the textures that should have been included in the first place. Hi Res ERF file so that modders can use these to correct the game and make proper mods and expansions.
It seems as though the PC version is a port from the consoles and there are several clear signs of this. I hope for official word from a Mod/Dev on this matter to clear things up..and hopfully we can get somewhere. It's been a very poor experience for me with Dragon Age due to these issues..and while the game itself is probably one of the greatest I have ever played, some of the hush hush on issues or lack of support or proper patches have had been quite dumbfounded and very cautious to purchase any DLC or any other BioWare product in the future.
Sorry for my rambling, please discuss.
Hi-Res Texture Discussion (Due to closed Petition)
Débuté par
NewYears1978
, déc. 17 2009 06:52
Retour en haut
#2
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*
Posté 17 décembre 2009 - 06:55
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*
-
- Guests
NewYears1978 wrote...
It seems as though the PC version is a port from the consoles and there are several clear signs of this.
Again? FFS
If this is a console-pc port, it's the best one I've ever seen or played.
Modifié par Crawling_Chaos, 18 décembre 2009 - 08:51 .
#3
Posté 17 décembre 2009 - 09:18
Darth_Shizz
-
- Members
- 672 messages
Crawling_Chaos wrote...
NewYears1978 wrote...
It seems as though the PC version is a port from the consoles and there are several clear signs of this.
Again? FFS
This isn't particularly helpful, considering 78 hasn't started a bashing thread, merely one that discusses the (already admitted) problem of missing hi-res textures.
Whilst I wouldn't go as far as to call dragon age an obvious port (it'd seem like an odd practice to me, considering development began on a PC), but after following 4aces' texture work and experimentation, I have to admit, there are certain aspects that would definitely point to that...for whatever reason *shrug*
Also, it's a shame the other thread was closed, but I suppose I understand the reasoning behind it. Hopefully this one will attract positive attention from the devs through discussion, rather than "please" spam
Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 17 décembre 2009 - 09:19 .
#4
Posté 17 décembre 2009 - 11:02
Sammage2k
-
- Members
- 12 messages
I think it's pretty clear the textures that are in the game are not high res. I think it's also clear that the reason there is silence on the issue is that there's a memory leak already and the hi res textures make it worse. My guess is that until/unless they get that fixed they won't say much on the textures.
At least that's what's clear to me. Maybe a Bioware rep can discuss it with us in this thread.
At least that's what's clear to me. Maybe a Bioware rep can discuss it with us in this thread.
#5
Posté 17 décembre 2009 - 11:41
murrymonster
-
- Members
- 18 messages
This is one of the major reasons I continue to purchase PC games.
Most game producers/creators etc need to cater for a wide audience of machines. Allowing modders access to create higher res textures, allows those with 'beefier' computers to play the game in style. Something the devs could not do as it would cut out a huge portion of the PC world.
So I would love it if they could release what is requested. I would love to see this game in high res. textures as it is already a breathtaking world. You just need to see some of the Fallout ones to realise what adifference they can make.
Most game producers/creators etc need to cater for a wide audience of machines. Allowing modders access to create higher res textures, allows those with 'beefier' computers to play the game in style. Something the devs could not do as it would cut out a huge portion of the PC world.
So I would love it if they could release what is requested. I would love to see this game in high res. textures as it is already a breathtaking world. You just need to see some of the Fallout ones to realise what adifference they can make.
#6
Posté 17 décembre 2009 - 11:41
EJ42
-
- Members
- 723 messages
The OP can't see the forest for the trees.
#7
Posté 17 décembre 2009 - 11:49
Jhegan
-
- Members
- 36 messages
Sammage2k wrote...
I think it's pretty clear the textures that are in the game are not high res. I think it's also clear that the reason there is silence on the issue is that there's a memory leak already and the hi res textures make it worse. My guess is that until/unless they get that fixed they won't say much on the textures.
At least that's what's clear to me. Maybe a Bioware rep can discuss it with us in this thread.
That's one theory out there. I've never experienced this memory leak myself and my system hasn't been top of the line for two years, but with all the discussion in the tech support forum and on mod forums of this memory leak, there might be something going on. I would like the improved core textures to be release at least as an option for those who have no issues thus far. I'm currently using a combination of texture mods from 4Aces, reative24, Riot23, and more for more specific things like the Blood Dragon Armor (what's up with the ultra low res on that anyway?).
#8
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 12:49
Digital Freak
-
- Members
- 31 messages
EJ42 wrote...
The OP can't see the forest for the trees.
That's because the trees are too damn blurry!
Come on Bioware! How about an official statement?
Modifié par Digital Freak, 18 décembre 2009 - 12:50 .
#9
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 12:54
roybm
-
- Members
- 114 messages
here are High Res textures. Not that i can use them since the game dont work right for me anyhow 
http://www.dragonage.../file.php?id=15
http://www.dragonage.../file.php?id=15
#10
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 12:55
Bibdy
-
- Members
- 1 455 messages
You can make plenty of good mods and levels without hi-res textures, so I'm not sure all this "release it so we can make proper mods!" business is warranted.
I'm certainly making progress on my level. It would be nice to have higher detail textures, but I'd rather worry about the content of it in the meantime, then update textures later on when they become available, rather than twiddle my thumbs waiting.
We're not really in any position to demand anything from Bioware, nor are online petitions going to work, so I don't know what you really hope to achieve here. If they want to release it, they'll release it. If not, oh well. The world isn't going to collapse in the meantime.
I'm certainly making progress on my level. It would be nice to have higher detail textures, but I'd rather worry about the content of it in the meantime, then update textures later on when they become available, rather than twiddle my thumbs waiting.
We're not really in any position to demand anything from Bioware, nor are online petitions going to work, so I don't know what you really hope to achieve here. If they want to release it, they'll release it. If not, oh well. The world isn't going to collapse in the meantime.
#11
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 07:21
Jhegan
-
- Members
- 36 messages
Very true. The whole idea is that there are claims that at some point, somebody from BioWare said that some of the proper textures didn't make it into the PC release and that it was a mistake. It has been implied that they have the proper textures, but nobody knows why the textures haven't been released. There are modders who don't specialize in building dungeons and levels and content, but are rather in devoting their time to modifying the existing textures, and their projects will be incomplete if they don't have the proper textures to begin with.Bibdy wrote...
You can make plenty of good mods and levels without hi-res textures, so I'm not sure all this "release it so we can make proper mods!" business is warranted.
I'm certainly making progress on my level. It would be nice to have higher detail textures, but I'd rather worry about the content of it in the meantime, then update textures later on when they become available, rather than twiddle my thumbs waiting.
We're not really in any position to demand anything from Bioware, nor are online petitions going to work, so I don't know what you really hope to achieve here. If they want to release it, they'll release it. If not, oh well. The world isn't going to collapse in the meantime.
I want my game to look the way it was supposed to. If BioWare is just sitting on the textures that already exist, it doesn't seem that it should be that difficult to release. Perhaps some of the textures were incomplete? There's been no word on the subject (as far as I know)
#12
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 08:29
0LunarEclipse0
-
- Members
- 184 messages
EJ42 wrote...
The OP can't see the forest for the trees.
/a god damn gree.
Enough of this, the game is fun an intuitive. If your a graphics **** go play something pretty. I am going to go play Planscape and Baulders Gate well relishing the great story of it's developers.
#13
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 08:34
GHL_Soul_Reaver
-
- Members
- 353 messages
I fully agree that the PC version should have high res textures as an option as it is, mainly due to that many of these systems here can actually handle high res compared to that many consoles would not be able to handle it.
Granting the options for modders to add it in.. or just having it going by different forms of available textures would be nice... eg the same type textureLow - Texturemedium - textureheavy... that would inflict using a slider in game to select which quality you would like to have that then refere to the texture low-med-high.
For pure texture modders though it would be different as it is I guess... as there would only be the texture displaying that he or she made.
Granting the options for modders to add it in.. or just having it going by different forms of available textures would be nice... eg the same type textureLow - Texturemedium - textureheavy... that would inflict using a slider in game to select which quality you would like to have that then refere to the texture low-med-high.
For pure texture modders though it would be different as it is I guess... as there would only be the texture displaying that he or she made.
#14
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 12:22
nmemonic
-
- Members
- 5 messages
well im hoping that if this garners enough interests, then there could be a chance the devs would give it some attention. Especially as it helps let them know what the bulk of the community is interested to see next...so they might just work towards this.
Its nice to see this discussion is building into a topic of interest amongst the pc player base.
Its nice to see this discussion is building into a topic of interest amongst the pc player base.
#15
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 04:13
MorseDenizen
-
- Members
- 206 messages
judging from the reply to the petition itself I'm pretty doubtful, I have a feeling the devs may be getting a bit peeved actually. What has me worried is the rumour that the pc version is a console port as a lot of things are appearing to support it.... Is it not true that BW stated the low rez core textures were due to a shipping error? I've heard that a lot but would like some official statement on that, cos all this rumour tends to muddy up whats what..... any info or link anyone?
#16
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 08:38
4Aces
-
- Members
- 134 messages
I was trying to be civil and give the Devs a chance to do the right thing. There is nothing to really discuss but I will outline the facts again.
Listen, this is not requesting HiRes textures so please thinking that. It is requesting the Regular sized textures, that they Do have. How do I know for sure? They screwed up and released some of them in the form of fully detailed, full sized Normal Maps. You make the Normal Map from the Texture, and you cannot increase the size of the Normal and increase detail. I have personally created about 50K normal maps (including a few K in my DA:O HiRes Pack 1), using many methods, and these were created using full sized textures.
You see, the average sized object in the game world gets a 1024x1024 pixel textures. That covers everything from tables, to double doors, to people's bodies (heads get their own). This is a standard image size that has been in use for many years, Larger, or more complex objects (the windmill in Redcliff) are supposed to be comprised of many of these textures.
Now what gets really interesting is that the textures in the /Textures/High folder are 1024x1024 on average (except weapons or gloves which are 512X512 since they are smaller objects). That is interesting since they comprise almost all of the foreground textures. They specifically chose to keep them at full size, yet they nerfed the others all the way down to 256X256! That is the typical size of a texture found wrapped around tiny objects (forks, plates, cups) not wagons and doors that are larger than a person. When you do that, they are stretched so badly that all the pixels become blurry and distorted. There are roughly 2K of these in this game. When you finally get to see it with the real textures you will be amazed at the difference..
The really amazing thing is that by going all the way to 256^2 from 1024^2 the files only take up 1/16th of the memory that they used to. Remember there are two dimension (H X W) so 1024/256=4, and 4 X 4 = 16. If they had just made them half sized then they would have looked a lot better, and still only taken 1/4 of the memory that originals did.
Now remember those fully size Normal Maps? These also indicate that this was done at the last second since it gives us proof, and wastes a lot of memory. There is no way that this was an accident with full sized Normals.
If they were honestly trying to make the game look proper instead of just shooting the best in-game trailers for game shows (aside from the CG commercials), then they would have cut down some of the lesser textures in the High/Medium packs to compensate. There is plenty of room to prune in them, but it would not look quite as good for the cut scenes.
Now I really wish I could post a link to the interview/article/or post that this originally came from, but I do not have it anymore. If anyone does please post it so everyone can see it for themselves.
According to Bioware personnel, DA:O for the PC was done back in March! That means that the memory leak is part of the engine, not a few errors in level making or mesh interaction. That means that there is a better chance that they will stop selling DLCs and just give them away as an apology, than actually fixing it for DA;0. I just hope they get it fixed for The Old Republic.
All of this combined, with the fact that the Bioware Reps. were pulled from these topics and Bioware has not answered my, or anyone else that I know's emails about anything (not complaints, but technical questions about the textures, which we eventually figured out ourselves), so I am starting to think about abandoning this game. If this is the the new Bioware, then I will mourn the old (DA:O + Mass Effect = 2 in a row that were disappointments @ Bioware's Tier).
Cheers everyone!
Listen, this is not requesting HiRes textures so please thinking that. It is requesting the Regular sized textures, that they Do have. How do I know for sure? They screwed up and released some of them in the form of fully detailed, full sized Normal Maps. You make the Normal Map from the Texture, and you cannot increase the size of the Normal and increase detail. I have personally created about 50K normal maps (including a few K in my DA:O HiRes Pack 1), using many methods, and these were created using full sized textures.
You see, the average sized object in the game world gets a 1024x1024 pixel textures. That covers everything from tables, to double doors, to people's bodies (heads get their own). This is a standard image size that has been in use for many years, Larger, or more complex objects (the windmill in Redcliff) are supposed to be comprised of many of these textures.
Now what gets really interesting is that the textures in the /Textures/High folder are 1024x1024 on average (except weapons or gloves which are 512X512 since they are smaller objects). That is interesting since they comprise almost all of the foreground textures. They specifically chose to keep them at full size, yet they nerfed the others all the way down to 256X256! That is the typical size of a texture found wrapped around tiny objects (forks, plates, cups) not wagons and doors that are larger than a person. When you do that, they are stretched so badly that all the pixels become blurry and distorted. There are roughly 2K of these in this game. When you finally get to see it with the real textures you will be amazed at the difference..
The really amazing thing is that by going all the way to 256^2 from 1024^2 the files only take up 1/16th of the memory that they used to. Remember there are two dimension (H X W) so 1024/256=4, and 4 X 4 = 16. If they had just made them half sized then they would have looked a lot better, and still only taken 1/4 of the memory that originals did.
Now remember those fully size Normal Maps? These also indicate that this was done at the last second since it gives us proof, and wastes a lot of memory. There is no way that this was an accident with full sized Normals.
If they were honestly trying to make the game look proper instead of just shooting the best in-game trailers for game shows (aside from the CG commercials), then they would have cut down some of the lesser textures in the High/Medium packs to compensate. There is plenty of room to prune in them, but it would not look quite as good for the cut scenes.
Now I really wish I could post a link to the interview/article/or post that this originally came from, but I do not have it anymore. If anyone does please post it so everyone can see it for themselves.
According to Bioware personnel, DA:O for the PC was done back in March! That means that the memory leak is part of the engine, not a few errors in level making or mesh interaction. That means that there is a better chance that they will stop selling DLCs and just give them away as an apology, than actually fixing it for DA;0. I just hope they get it fixed for The Old Republic.
All of this combined, with the fact that the Bioware Reps. were pulled from these topics and Bioware has not answered my, or anyone else that I know's emails about anything (not complaints, but technical questions about the textures, which we eventually figured out ourselves), so I am starting to think about abandoning this game. If this is the the new Bioware, then I will mourn the old (DA:O + Mass Effect = 2 in a row that were disappointments @ Bioware's Tier).
Cheers everyone!
#17
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 08:44
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*
-
- Guests
4Aces wrote...
I just hope they get it fixed for The Old Republic.
Cheers everyone!
Get what fixed for TOR? TOR is being developed by Bioware Austin using the Hero Engine.
It has absolutely no relation to DAO or its problems.
#18
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 09:11
4Aces
-
- Members
- 134 messages
Good! I thought that since they billed the Eclipse Engine as a "Next Gen RPG Engine" that this is what they would be using for TOR. I was worried there...
Modifié par 4Aces, 18 décembre 2009 - 09:12 .
#19
Posté 18 décembre 2009 - 11:41
astrallite
-
- Members
- 1 344 messages
Luckily the Hero engine is a lot better.
#20
Posté 19 décembre 2009 - 02:59
akkaze
-
- Members
- 50 messages
It's a great game, I've not finished it yet but I'd have to say it's right up there amongst my all-time top RP gaming experiences (and that includes P&P). I don't think anyone posting here really disagrees that as an RP title it's right up there with the very very best.
This issue isn't a gripe tho as a few commenters seem to be implying. There really are problems, which with the release of what textures-n-stuff (I'm not technical) they have, people could actually start sorting out. This is a request from the keenest fans, not griping from bioware haters.
I've been following 4Aces trials and tribulations trying to get hires textures up and running and it's clear s/he is skilled and sincere and a fan who is really just trying to help improve the gaming experience on a title they really like, in exactly the same way a modder is by making some new story for the game with the toolset. I understand why the prev thread was locked as "spam" and it's not unreasonable from a forum-management perspective, I get that. But I get kinda depressed when 4Aces who is obviously a "good g(irl/uy)" ends up being seen as a hater or troublemaker in some way.
I've followed a fair bit of the fan/forum activity for DAO and Mass Effect and it does seem to me that Bioware does "get" the importance to them of their fanbase/s and does overall try pretty hard to be an "approachable" company, and I really respect them for that. On the ME forums in particular I have read some really thoughtful, reflective and detailed posts by bioware people about issues that fans have brought up, and have been sincerely impressed by the seriousness of the responses they gave to the issues raised.
So you know, relatively speaking, amazing title, and amazing company. Sincerity counts for a lot in my book and overall I do really feel that Bioware and the people who represent it do go the extra mile for their fans.
All of that said and-I-mean-it-I-really-do, in this particular case, well, it's all ended up a wee bit sucky. If the scenario 4Aces has laid out (memory leak issues covered over by poor textures and then forgotten about/hidden away) is true, well, now that the cat is out of the bag, wouldn't it just be simpler to fess up and release whatever stuff they do have, and let the 4Aces of the world work whatever magic on it they can?
It's hard to make a judgment when the facts are kind of murky, and as I said, I have no head for code
. For what it's worth, I hope Bioware is in a position sometime soon to at least make clear what the real issue/s are.
Still, I am abjectly and pathetically in love with this game and I'm not sure I'll ever be able to escape the Bioware orbit.
(PS 4Aces you rock, seriously.)
This issue isn't a gripe tho as a few commenters seem to be implying. There really are problems, which with the release of what textures-n-stuff (I'm not technical
) they have, people could actually start sorting out. This is a request from the keenest fans, not griping from bioware haters.I've been following 4Aces trials and tribulations trying to get hires textures up and running and it's clear s/he is skilled and sincere and a fan who is really just trying to help improve the gaming experience on a title they really like, in exactly the same way a modder is by making some new story for the game with the toolset. I understand why the prev thread was locked as "spam" and it's not unreasonable from a forum-management perspective, I get that. But I get kinda depressed when 4Aces who is obviously a "good g(irl/uy)" ends up being seen as a hater or troublemaker in some way.
I've followed a fair bit of the fan/forum activity for DAO and Mass Effect and it does seem to me that Bioware does "get" the importance to them of their fanbase/s and does overall try pretty hard to be an "approachable" company, and I really respect them for that. On the ME forums in particular I have read some really thoughtful, reflective and detailed posts by bioware people about issues that fans have brought up, and have been sincerely impressed by the seriousness of the responses they gave to the issues raised.
So you know, relatively speaking, amazing title, and amazing company. Sincerity counts for a lot in my book and overall I do really feel that Bioware and the people who represent it do go the extra mile for their fans.
All of that said and-I-mean-it-I-really-do, in this particular case, well, it's all ended up a wee bit sucky. If the scenario 4Aces has laid out (memory leak issues covered over by poor textures and then forgotten about/hidden away) is true, well, now that the cat is out of the bag, wouldn't it just be simpler to fess up and release whatever stuff they do have, and let the 4Aces of the world work whatever magic on it they can?
It's hard to make a judgment when the facts are kind of murky, and as I said, I have no head for code
. For what it's worth, I hope Bioware is in a position sometime soon to at least make clear what the real issue/s are.Still, I am abjectly and pathetically in love with this game and I'm not sure I'll ever be able to escape the Bioware orbit.
(PS 4Aces you rock, seriously.)
#21
Posté 19 décembre 2009 - 03:19
enderandrew
-
- Members
- 274 messages
Dragon Age appears to be an extension of the NWN engine, which they in turn did use for KOTOR, but that engine was designed for PC first. And I believe Dragon Age has always been designed with PC and consoles in mind.
It is first and foremost designed to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, a PC-only title.
So no, this wasn't designed for consoles first, and then ported.
It is first and foremost designed to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, a PC-only title.
So no, this wasn't designed for consoles first, and then ported.
#22
Posté 21 décembre 2009 - 01:47
NewYears1978
-
- Members
- 894 messages
Would be nice to at least get official word from devs on it..not all hush or brushed off.
Because of this I have completely uninstalled DA:O and moved on. Yes I got a good 85 hours out of it and loved the game. It was amazing..don't get me wrong. But I have been severely turned off to BioWare now and have decided not to even buy Mass Effect 2 which I was previously very pumped about.
Because of this I have completely uninstalled DA:O and moved on. Yes I got a good 85 hours out of it and loved the game. It was amazing..don't get me wrong. But I have been severely turned off to BioWare now and have decided not to even buy Mass Effect 2 which I was previously very pumped about.
#23
Posté 21 décembre 2009 - 02:07
B33ker
-
- Members
- 825 messages
I seem to recall reading somewhere that they started with basic textures for everything and were working on higher resolution textures to replace them all when either EA said "times up ship it" or they ran out of money or something, so that's why the textures in game go from "pretty nice" to "pretty crappy".
No clue how true it is, but if the money aspect is true, then I wouldn't expect to see EA pony up the cash now to do a wicked high resolution pack for us. Granted there are some very talented modders out there who could do it, but they've got to want to spend the time on it.
No clue how true it is, but if the money aspect is true, then I wouldn't expect to see EA pony up the cash now to do a wicked high resolution pack for us. Granted there are some very talented modders out there who could do it, but they've got to want to spend the time on it.
#24
Posté 21 décembre 2009 - 02:43
Darth_Shizz
-
- Members
- 672 messages
B33ker wrote...
No clue how true it is, but if the money aspect is true, then I wouldn't expect to see EA pony up the cash now to do a wicked high resolution pack for us. Granted there are some very talented modders out there who could do it, but they've got to want to spend the time on it.
Respectable textures are all people are asking for. As it stands, it's not worth the time nor effort trying to make certain textures in the game look good. Painting a turd gold will not make it a real gold nugget
#25
Posté 21 décembre 2009 - 02:45
ChickenDownUnder
-
- Members
- 1 028 messages
256X256 is just criminal. Makes me one sad Chicken. I can understand small texture maps if it was just for a simple weapon or other small object. Or hell, even something in the far background that the player had no way of actually getting near to, but was something needed to add a sense of depth to a game level.
Hi-Res (Or even medium...) Texture pack 4 all. Seamless mod integration ftw.
Hi-Res (Or even medium...) Texture pack 4 all. Seamless mod integration ftw.
