227 réponses à ce sujet

[FirroSeranel]

You know, I keep hearing people say things, on the forums, on IRC, in voice chat... things like, "Score doesn't matter.  The best player could be playing support and not score high at all!"  Or, "N7 rating doesn't mean anything at all."

I beg to disagree.

Okay, I'll grant, score and N7 rating aren't a 100% guaranteed predictor of player skill.  And I'll grant, score shouldn't be the -goal- by any means.

But you earn points for kills, for completing objectives, for revives, assists, survival, and using a variety of skills and tactics.  What does a good player do?  Kill things, assist with killing things, revive teammates, survive through multiple waves, complete objectives, and vary tactics as the situation dictates.  So no, I'm sorry, with -exceedingly- rare exceptions, if you scored less than half of what the rest of the team averages, you didn't "play a support class well".  You sucked.  The team probably would have been better off without having to revive you 30 times, or without you messing up the spawn control strategy.  I've played support classes.  I've played them well and scored right up there with the team.  I've played them on fire and topped the scoreboard by a good margin.  But when my score sucks, it's not like it's a surprise to see that fact at the end of the round, because I -know- I played like crap.

Same with N7 rating.  How many times have you had someone join an in-progress game, and just utterly dominate it, and you leave and see a high four-digit N7 rating and think, "yeah, that makes sense."  And be honest... have you ever seen someone with an N7 rating in the two-digit range who just absolutely rocked?  I doubt it, and if you have, please feel free to post video proof.

Score and N7 rating are a by-product of good playing.  Yes, there are exceptions.  Yes, there could be someone who plays an extreme support build, who is the anchor of the team, or who camps a room far away for spawn control, or who holds a retreat point while the team ranges out from there for safer kills.  Yes, there could be someone who just goes Rambo, going nuts the whole game to try and score high, getting his team killed as they try to revive him.  But 99% of the time, if someone scored really high, it's because they absolutely kicked ass on that match.  They know it.  You know it.  So why play the curmudgeon in the corner, grumbling under his breath, "well, score doesn't matter..."  Baloney.  Don't be that guy!  I'll bet even the most hardcore curmudgeons still feel pretty damn good when they top the charts on a Gold by 50 or 60,000 points.

N7 rating has more notable exceptions of course.  Sure, it's plausible that someday, the world's top player will have an N7 rating of 120, because he never, ever, ever promoted a character.  It's also possible for the Earth to get sucked into a black hole in the next five minutes.  I'll believe both when I see them.  But any less than 120 means you haven't even bought enough gear packs to level your non-favored classes, let alone actually -tried- every class, which means, frankly, you don't have the gear or the experience to be really competitive on the higher difficulties.  It's just a fact.  You don't have the expendables capacity either, so even if you say "Yeah but I saw a youtube video of a team beating Platinum with no gear, and level 1 characters!", they still probably spent 20 rockets in a very strategic fashion to beat the last four or five waves.

And of course, once you get to a certain point, the amount of experience a person has with X,XXX N7 rating isn't much of a real advantage over someone with YY,YYY N7 rating.  But where do you draw that line?  I'm in the 1300's, and I'm still learning and growing as a player every day, so I sure haven't reached it yet.  Do I regularly outscore people with higher N7 ratings?  Sure.  Do I consider Silver to be cake and Gold to be pretty easy with a decent team, feats I believed unfathomable without cheating when I was new, or even when I was crossing the 1,000 mark?  You bet.  Do I get outscored by people with N7 ratings in the mid to high triple-digits sometimes?  Of course.  Do I think I'm a better player than zHHk, because my N7 rating is higher?  No way.  But in general, probably at least 70% of the time, the scoreboard lines up pretty closely to the N7 ratings, and an -honest-, objective review of the match will show that the play skill also lined up pretty closely.  70% is a statistically relevant predictor, folks.  That's a fact.

Modifié par FirroSeranel, 18 juillet 2012 - 09:03 .

[Disciple888]

yep

[Dokteur Kill]

I have seen so many four digit N7's play absolute arse, so no, N7 rating doesn't say squat.

[Disciple888]

I've played with 5 digit N7s that were terrible. I've also played with low N7s that are good (Bahroo, Paladin, etc.) At the end of the day though, as the OP says, low N7 generally means terrible player, especially in PUGs.

[LennethValkyrie]

N7 rating tells nothing.. just how many classes the player has promoted..
Score is more about skill but if there are people better than you in the room they'll make you look ''that bad'' even if you aren't..

[IllusiveManJr]

N7 doesn't indicate anything besides how much someone promotes.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

FirroSeranel wrote...


But any less than 120 means you haven't even bought enough gear packs to level your non-favored classes, let alone actually -tried- every class, which means, frankly, you don't have the gear or the experience to be really competitive on the higher difficulties.  It's just a fact. 

I remember my Revenant I on my HMI being "competitive" on the "higher difficulties".

N7 means you promoted more. Score means you killed more enemies. That's all there is to see in those "stats". 

[FirroSeranel]

*laughs* Yes, N7 only indicates how much you promote. Which indicates one of three things:

The amount of experience you have, since to promote enough characters to get into the four-digit range through playing takes hundreds (thousands?) of matches.

The amount and quality of gear you have, since in either playing that many matches, or spending that much money to promote that many characters through pure store XP, you -do- have a nice collection of gear by the four-digits.

That you're a complete moron, and really, really, REALLY enjoy playing games you truly suck at for hundreds and hundreds of hours. This last is facetious and only very, very rarely might actually happen.

So I still hold, that at the VERY least, someone in the four-digit range is at least going to have a solid grasp of tactics, decent aim, an understanding of how to set up and detonate combos, solid gear, weaponry, and expendables, and -probably- at least a basic instinctive understanding of spawn control, even if they don't explicitly comprehend it.

To people like theillusiveman11 who say "N7 doesn't indicate anything besides how much someone promotes," my only response, after a groan and a facepalm, is to wonder if his version of the game lets him just gleefully click the promote button as often as he wants for free. 'cause mine doesn't. I had to earn every. Single. Promotion. So did everybody else. That means I have experience, and gear. Period.

And yes, LennethValkryie, I admit, the snapshot score of a single match isn't a death-knell soothsaying about your skill as a player. A much better player -will- drive the others' scores down, because there are only so many points to be had in a match of a given difficulty. So what? Did you have a point? I'm talking about a bigger picture. I know I'm a good Gold player, because on a PUG, I will have the highest score about 90% of the time. In my guild, I'll have the highest score about 60% of the time. I know I'm a solid member of the team in Platinum, because while I rarely have the highest score, I've never been dead last yet either. I haven't not topped a Bronze or Silver in a long, long time in a PUG, and at least 90% of the time, I'm either double anyone else's score, or else me and one other good player are around triple the other two.

Back when my N7 rating was in the high triple-digits, I could have said the same, only bumped down one difficulty for each statement. Back when I was in the low triple-digits, and Silver was a challenge, I knew perfectly well that Gold was not a place I truly belonged. If I joined one, and didn't get kicked, I was grateful to be there and at least tried not to drag the team down, but I had no delusions of being the badass of the bunch.

Modifié par FirroSeranel, 18 juillet 2012 - 09:19 .

[FirroSeranel]

And apparently Jay is also unable to see more than one logical layer deep, in that promoting more has to come from somewhere. Apparently he's also never noticed the score popping up for assists, objectives, and milestones. You might try paying attention to what it says on your screen, man. *smirks* On Bronze, it's entirely possible to outscore everyone else on an objective wave, and not kill a single thing.

[IllusiveManJr]

I try to avoid the topic of promoting since it seems to be a volatile subject. Although on BSN, what topic isn't?

[Omega2079]

xp is shared, so your n7 rank could be built entirely from quality, top-tier gold performance, or worst-of-the-worst leaching on bronze. That's why N7 rank means little, esp. above 120.

[Wolfsbladex]

Bookmarked. You share experienced words my friend

[The real PBALL]

I'm 300+ N7 and I only recently upgraded to Silver.

[FirroSeranel]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I try to avoid the topic of promoting since it seems to be a volatile subject. Although on BSN, what topic isn't?

True enough.  And I did admit in my original post that N7 rating is less reliable than score.  I don't pay much attention to the in-game global scoreboards for exactly that reason.

I know perfectly well that there are much better players than me at half my N7 rating.  But -most- of the time, come on... can't you admit that if you enter a public lobby and see someone with a 5,000 N7 rating, you smile at least a -little- bit, and think, "oh yeah, we're winning this one"?  If not, then... your curmudgeonliness is mightier than my ability to defeat.

I'm also not advocating playing like an angry gorilla to jack up your score for bragging rights, or promoting religiously every chance you get just to get a high N7 rating.  I myself usually keep my favorite class (soldier) at 20, for Gold and Platinum matches.  But even then, over the weekend, my N7 rating went up over fifty points, mostly just from experience earned from character cards.

I'm just saying, in general, if someone scores well, it's because they earned it, by playing a damn fine match, and that if someone joins your platinum match with an N7 rating of 37 and a Predator I with no mods, and no gear, then yeah, you damn well should kick them out, to teach them a little humility, and to avoid clawing your eyes out as you have to run to revive them for the ninth time that wave.

And really, if you can't at least admit that much... then you aren't a very rational being.

[Arppis]

FirroSeranel wrote...



The amount of experience you have, since to promote enough characters to get into the four-digit range through playing takes hundreds (thousands?) of matches.

Wrong already there.

[FirroSeranel]

The real PBALL wrote...

I'm 300+ N7 and I only recently upgraded to Silver.

You're doing fine.  You'll get there, trust me.  Even if people on Gold and Platinum when you do play them seem like magic, or like they're cheating, you -will- eventually get that good.  Just read tips in the forums, and watch instructional videos if you want to learn faster, or just play and have fun if you don't mind progressing a little more slowly.

[FirroSeranel]

Arppis wrote...

FirroSeranel wrote...



The amount of experience you have, since to promote enough characters to get into the four-digit range through playing takes hundreds (thousands?) of matches.

Wrong already there.

Sweet, and we have our first person who doesn't bother to read the next (or previous) sentences before posting to show how smart he is.  Bravo!

Modifié par FirroSeranel, 18 juillet 2012 - 09:38 .

[Wolfsbladex]

Arppis wrote...

FirroSeranel wrote...



The amount of experience you have, since to promote enough characters to get into the four-digit range through playing takes hundreds (thousands?) of matches.

Wrong already there.

You tryin to be funny or short of comprehension skills? Read that specific paragraph and not bits and pieces to comprehend what you don't understand

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

FirroSeranel wrote...

And apparently Jay is also unable to see more than one logical layer deep, in that promoting more has to come from somewhere. Apparently he's also never noticed the score popping up for assists, objectives, and milestones. You might try paying attention to what it says on your screen, man. *smirks* On Bronze, it's entirely possible to outscore everyone else on an objective wave, and not kill a single thing.

Assists, Objectives, milestones, don't get you as much score as kills. And anyways, 75+ kills and all those medals are done by killing enemies. And if you're focused on killing enemies, you'll also nearly always have the 50+ assists.
So, high score = focused on killing enemies. That's all there is to it.

As for the Bronze thing, maybe. I don't play Bronze so you're probably right.

Also 'promoting has to come from somewhere'. Nope. Before BioWare changed the store, people could promote without even playing the class once, because of character cards galore. 
And since promoting is completely useless, as we have no incentive to do so (you can get 5000 EMS in SP without promoting), no rewards, nothing, lots of people stop promoting early. Statistically, I've met as much people who sucked with high N7s as with low N7s. 

Ergo, N7 is useless, and BioWare should make a skill points system. Like on BF3, but better.

[ZachNyeScienceGuy]

Not all high N7's are great, I honestly have yet to play with one in the 4 digits that has impressed me and I've seen N7's of over 1000 who still have weapons like the Claymore at IV and who would constantly go down during rounds, not to mention, there are things like farming and glitching, which can get people with no skill high N7's, so having a high N7 doesn't always equate to experience.

[FirroSeranel]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Also 'promoting has to come from somewhere'. Nope. Before BioWare changed the store, people could promote without even playing the class once, because of character cards galore.

Right.  Therefore, promoting -still- came from -somewhere-.  Namely, from spending either a lot of credits, or a lot of money, on packs.  Which gives you.... what....?  *drumroll*  Oh yeah!  Gear!  And -probably- (unless you're independently wealthy), experience!  Which is how you -earned- all those credits.

Sheesh.  It's called -logic-, people.  Look it up!

P.S., when I joined the game, well after Bioware "changed the store" (I dunno about you, but I still get lots of character cards, but I'll take your word that it used to be more...), the top-ranked people were in the high-2000's.  Now they're topping 20,000.  So yeeeah.  I'm not Aristotle, but it seems to me that those last 18,000 N7 ranks -probably- didn't come from the pre-patched store system.  *sighs*

Modifié par FirroSeranel, 18 juillet 2012 - 09:45 .

[Dokteur Kill]

FirroSeranel wrote...

So I still hold, that at the VERY least, someone in the four-digit range is at least going to have a solid grasp of tactics, decent aim, an understanding of how to set up and detonate combos, solid gear, weaponry, and expendables, and -probably- at least a basic instinctive understanding of spawn control, even if they don't explicitly comprehend it.

I have seen enough counter-examples to tell you that: no, they don't have to have any of those things. Even equipment can be fairly "meh" in the case of those who have mostly played bronze and silver and promoted as soon as they hit 20.

[DannyBFTW]

N7 past 120 doesn't show skill, it just shows time playing and whether they've bothered to promote.

Also, if you play as a support character you don't get as many points as others it is simply a fact. You don't get points for restoring allies shield with the geth turret, you don't get points for reducing the damage they're taking when they are inside your biotic sphere, you don't get points for restoring there ammo from a supply pylon, you don't get points for soaking up damage with your shield as a Paladin.

You may say that you get points for doing the devices but you only get around 1000 for them. Your team mates who are off killing things only have to kill 3 or 4 minor enemies to get that much. You may also say that you get points from assists, but so does everyone else on the team.

If you are trying to get the highest score in the match playing support just isn't viable.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

FirroSeranel wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Also 'promoting has to come from somewhere'. Nope. Before BioWare changed the store, people could promote without even playing the class once, because of character cards galore.

Right.  Therefore, promoting -still- came from -somewhere-.  Namely, from spending either a lot of credits, or a lot of money, on packs.  Which gives you.... what....?  *drumroll*  Oh yeah!  Gear!  And -probably- (unless you're independently wealthy), experience!  Which is how you -earned- all those credits.

Sheesh.  It's called -logic-, people.  Look it up!

Spending a lot of credits or real $$. You're right. Thing is, you can get credits for doing the easiest thing in the world : FBWGG. Just by farming this all day erryday, you can have 75k every 20 minutes. You literally can get to high N7s by doing this.  You don't need skill to do it, and you do not gain experience.

But anyhow, seems we're at odd on this issue. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[darkpassenger2342]

"N7 past 120 doesn't show skill, it just shows time playing and whether they've bothered to promote."

think maybe the people that have been playing longer have  a better feel for the game?
 guns, enemy habits, level layouts....

the op is right and he was never trying to be rude about it.
 he presents fact.
he also readily admits there are exceptions.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 18 juillet 2012 - 09:53 .