227 réponses à ce sujet

[Shpoon]

N7 rating is not a good indicator of skill. All it indicates is how much a person has promoted their classes. Anybody who gives a certain number (under 120 aside) as a cut-off point for a good player is a buffoon.

[Omega2079]

Where you logic fails op, is that while a high n7 rank indicates that some time has been put into the game, a low n7 rank does not indicate a lack of time put into the game. Promotion rates greatly vary between individuals, and thus n7 rank does not indicate total experience or total time played.

Modifié par Omega2079, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:30 .

[oblivion2023]

Before they fixed the character cards, once standard gold weapons are maxed, save a million credits, promote all characters buy 10 PSP, characters are at or near 20, repeat. N7 rank only shows how often someone promoted, not how good of a player they are. A persons experience is judged better by what level their weapons are. If they aren't at 10 they didn't earn that high N7 rank.
The ranking system is flawed. I am only ranked 300 something because I never promote and would be ranked 5000+ if I promoted even half as often as most do. I have seen some people with a ranking above a thousand with a geth plasma 1.
Your argument would only be valid if experience added to your N7 rank even when your character is at 20.

Also they didn't change the store that long ago, maybe a month at most? That you keep getting character cards means you don't have all your appearance options unlocked yet. The top 50 ranked players that I play with stopped promoting characters once they fixed the character cards in the store. Very few players will endure a level 1 player on gold just to add to an arbitrary rating. And the top players very rarely play silver. It doesn't provide enough credits or enough of a challenge.
You argue 70%, which is actually pretty low considering that bad players know what they have to do to look like they are better than they are. If the rating system is only 70% effective then it is 30% a failure.
Also, I have played gold exclusively since my ranking was around 70. The thousand+ players that I play with now tried to bump me. You really can't judge who will be good. And if you actually are that good then you can afford to have a bad player on your team.
Ranking means close to nothing, N7 ranking is not a product of good playing, it is a product of promoting characters.

[darkpassenger2342]

the only thing i continuously gather from these "n7 doesnt matter" threads is that the people that say it doesnt matter rarely have an n7 level over 400....
its obvious bias.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:29 .

[FirroSeranel]

DannyBFTW wrote...

Yes whilst this is all very good and maybe they are the top scorers, they're not top scorer because of their supportive role they are top scorers because they also ran around the map doing other things.
So by your view of how a supportive player works, if I spec my geth turret for full damge, flamethrower etc. then just play normally with the turret, throwing round corners, using it to cover me and kill enemies then I'm a good support player!
Also If I play my Justicar with a full offensive bubble and just get biotic explosions on my own using it and reave, I'm a good support player! 

See where I'm coming from here. You're not scoring well because you are supporting your team, you're scoring well because your killing enemies like anyone else. Just because I ocassionally heal an allies shields once and a while doesn't mean I'm a support player.

Alright, fine.  I concede, you're a good support player if you just restore shields and protect allies with your bubble.

If you can't see that someone else, who restores shields and protects allies with their bubble, -and- kills the badguys (which is the entire point of the game), is a -better- support player, then I think I'm wasting my time.

[LisuPL]

I have N7 over 1020... and I don't play like arse... as a matter of fact I play very good.
So N7 does give accurate indication of the player... at least some players.

Modifié par LisuPL, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:30 .

[FirroSeranel]

Carnagedude504 wrote...

I'm at N7 rating 280-ish (I don't have the game in front of me so I don't really remember), and I easily make it to the top of the leaderboard in silver games using my Vorcha Soldier (bloodlust turns you into a freakin' tank with the right specs), but I don't usually go into a game with the mindset of "Oh hey, I gotta beat these other ****s because i'm a competitive jerk", I usually think of "Okay, two more games and I get a spectre pack" or "I wonder how this person will use this class". It's more or less a learning experience for me rather than a competition to see who does the best, and frankly, I think that anyone who uses score or N7 ranking as a judging tool of someone's skill level is kind of dumb. Sure, of course, if someone is lagging behind in the kills department, they aren't exactly the best on your team, but maybe it's because they're hanging back and helping with assists, or even just studying your strategy to see how to play classes.

That's how I got good at the game. That, and when I first got the game, after beating single player I jumped on multiplayer and played for 20+ hours trying to get a Turian, though I just ended up unlocking everything but a Turian.


*EDIT: Is it strange that i'm reading FirroSeranel's posts in a Batarian voice in my mind?

I think, in as disagreeable a way as possible, you actually just agreed with me, nearly completely.  I seem to recall saying that getting a high-score isn't the goal, but that scoring well is a consequence of playing well.

And at 280, topping Silver reliably is about right.  A laudable achievement, but trust me, there's more to learn.  That's not an insult.  I too have more to learn.  I can't reliably top Platinum yet.  There are people who can.

[FirroSeranel]

Omega2079 wrote...

Where you logic fails op, is that while a high n7 rank indicates that some time has been put into the game, a low n7 rank does not indicate a lack of time put into the game. Promotion rates greatly vary between individuals, and thus n7 rank does not indicate total experience or total time played.

This is true, and is the source of both my initial concession that N7 rank is only a vague indicator, and not a solid ranking system, -and- the focus of my initial post and most others, on 120 points, which is the N7 rating of any experienced player who has never once promoted.  It doesn't take much experience in the game to get enough credits to promote every class to 20 with just character cards.  By the time you've even thoroughly learned all the maps, along with enemy spawn and movement habits on each map, you've easily done that and then some.

So.... where does my logic fail again?

Modifié par FirroSeranel, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:34 .

[oblivion2023]

[quote]Sabina261187 wrote...

As being a four digit N7 myself over the 3500, trying my BEST to prove peoples theories wrong all the time about their "Doesn't mean sh*t"...

I must agree with OP... Ofcourse there are people that stand out of a crowd as always, hell I saw it myself this weekend when my mates and I carried one through the reapers on gold, full extraction that had higher N7 than me, wich is pretty rare, and had crappier weapons than me...
As a lvl 1, even on a gold to lvl up on a farm, with nothing equiped I still score top..



No offense, but that you have a 3500 ranking and still play geth white proves that ranking means nothing.  Outscoring people on a glitched map is nothing to brag about. 

[Carnagedude504]

FirroSeranel wrote...

I think, in as disagreeable a way as possible, you actually just agreed with me, nearly completely.  I seem to recall saying that getting a high-score isn't the goal, but that scoring well is a consequence of playing well.

And at 280, topping Silver reliably is about right.  A laudable achievement, but trust me, there's more to learn.  That's not an insult.  I too have more to learn.  I can't reliably top Platinum yet.  There are people who can.

Passive-aggressiveness my friend, passive-aggressiveness. I'm just trying to say that those people at the bottom of the scoreboard may eventually be at the top reliably, given a few days (hell, maybe even a few hours if they're quick learners)

I can't even think about trying out platinum without my jimmies rustling ever so softly. Just the thought of having to put up with more than one enemy group at a time (Because we all love going up against Reaper brutes and banshees that keep you moving while also dodging geth rocket-spam by ducking into cover) makes me feel significantly less motivated to play the match.

[FirroSeranel]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the only thing i continuously gather from these "n7 doesnt matter" threads is that the people that say it doesnt matter rarely have an n7 level over 400....
its obvious bias.

*laughs*  Well-said.  Yes, I wonder how many four-digit N7 players have posted proudly that their long hours of experience don't matter?

I wonder also, how many people who are arguing that score also doesn't matter, can't top a scoreboard to save their lives.

Okay, so you -can- play a support character well, and not score all that high.  But I'll bet if you played a support class anything like something I'd be willing to call even marginally competently, you -can- top the scoreboards on more aggressive classes, at least some of the time on PUGs.  Makes me wonder why I'm even arguing.

At the end of the day, if we play a Gold match together, and I score 150,000 points, the second and third-place people each score 85,000, and you scored 24,000, your whining that my score didn't mean anything, is the thing that -truly- doesn't mean anything, because it's transparently just that.  Whining.

[NM_Che56]

Tl;dr

It does and it doesn't. Of course n7 correlates with promotions and class leveling amounts and not necessarily skill. However, I tend to notice that low n7s generally have low ranked weapons and have...unorthodox weapon choices (eg, HVG with mantis I and Revenant I). That's usually a sign of inexperience. Higher n7's tend to do combos and have better guns.

So, as a rule, I tend to look at level AND weapons. If I see an n7 135 with a high level rare or mid level UR then I may think twice about leaving the lobby or quitting as this may be a wolf in noob clothing.

[Dokteur Kill]

LisuPL wrote...

I have N7 over 1020... and I don't play like arse... as a matter of fact I play very good.
So N7 does give accurate indication of the player... at least some players.

Heh.

So, it gives an accurate indication of player skill, but only if you look at the N7 rating of the right players?

[Gazz66666]

FirroSeranel wrote...

Gazz66666 wrote...

In a game that's supposedly based on Co-Operation, "score" is arguably the most retarded addition to the game. Playing on Gold, I nearly always have the lowest score. No, I don't quite rack up kills like the rest of the team, who came packing assault rifles, in comparison to my Canifex VII.

What am I doing then? I'm playing a Salarian Engineer. And my Decoy is the reason those three Geth Primes and untold Pyros aren't raping the team. 

First, I admit, your Decoy was helpful, absolutely.  But I'll bet while you did score the lowest, you weren't below my threshhold of less than 50% of the third-place player.  If you were... then frankly, I'd rather have a Salarian Engineer who uses decoy -and- shoots his gun occasionally.  Since that's -another- class I've seen top the charts without much difficulty.

Second... while like you, I did think at first that score wasn't a very smart thing to add to a co-op game (for about one and a half seconds until I thought it through), I then realized that it serves several purposes.  For one, it lets me gauge my own performance.  This helps me know whether I'm really good enough to be playing on a given difficulty.  That's both generally, and on a given day, 'cause believe me, some days I just have a crap day, and Gold is not the correct difficulty for -me-!    For another, from a meta-game perspective, like it or not, it is a very motivating thing for nearly all humans.  Not just in games, in real life, too.  Want your salespeople to improve their performance?  Put up a scoreboard in the office.  It's like magic.  From Bioware's perspective, motivation to improve equates to longer spent in a game before burnout, which equates to more word-of-mouth advertising, more loyal customer base, more money spent on DLC's, and... generally more money.  Since they are in fact a for-profit organization, that's a very important goal for them.

Yeah, my endgame score isn't stupidly low. With the Carnifex and Structural Ergonomics gear, i've got a tidy power recharge rate, so I can spam energy drain on shields and incinerate on armour whilst using my pistol. Decoy is specced for duration but when you get three Primes on it it's shields don't last that long, so a quick recharge is pretty handy for that too. I also spend some time drawing aggro during objective rounds. Once did an entire hack before the enemy got to us they were so fascinated by my Decoys.

Assuming the top scorer hits something like between 60-70k points at match end, usually the second place will be around 50-60k and the bottom two - one of whom is usually myself - tend to have scored between 40 to about 48k. I don't think i've been over around 50,000 points many times when playing Decoy Support.

As for point two;  a fair observation, and something I guess I hadn't thought about since as far as ME3 MP is concerned, i'm not particularly motivated to top the leaderboards. I'm not as good/don't have nearly enough time to put in the hours that some people playing do. I'm fairly content to come third or fourth in a Gold game knowing I played my role and had fun doing it.

[FirroSeranel]

I'd also like to point out that a large part of how I learned the game at least, was by experimenting with various builds with each class. Since respec cards are quite rare, it's pretty implausible you could do that without promoting.

Just a thought.

[oblivion2023]

respec cards are uncommon,

[Omega2079]

FirroSeranel wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

Where you logic fails op, is that while a high n7 rank indicates that some time has been put into the game, a low n7 rank does not indicate a lack of time put into the game. Promotion rates greatly vary between individuals, and thus n7 rank does not indicate total experience or total time played.

This is true, and is the source of both my initial concession that N7 rank is only a vague indicator, and not a solid ranking system, -and- the focus of my initial post and most others, on 120 points, which is the N7 rating of any experienced player who has never once promoted.  It doesn't take much experience in the game to get enough credits to promote every class to 20 with just character cards.  By the time you've even thoroughly learned all the maps, along with enemy spawn and movement habits on each map, you've easily done that and then some.

So.... where does my logic fail again?

If your position has changed from "not 100%" to only a "vague" indicator, then there's not much left to say.

N7 rank doesn't indicate skill and doesn't matter.

Modifié par Omega2079, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:45 .

[darkpassenger2342]

the best reason to promote - so you dont get kicked.
it can be argued all day and night but only 10% of the players view the forums so those high guys  that do not will kick you without a single thought.
being stubborn and not promoting to prove something doesnt change that..
if you want to get a chance to even SHOW your loadout, you better be above 120 on gold.
sorry its not me, its the community, and the developers for giving us a chance to vote kick 3/4
( democracy)
we can dispute what it does or doesnt mean forever but unless you guys promote expect to get kicked from gold and platinum..
the people that have been playing for along time have earned the right to play with players matching their experience.
i dont want to play with an n7 135, i want to play with an n7 700, because ive been playing the game since march. thats just how it works. 

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:48 .

[GreyWardenNathan]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the only thing i continuously gather from these "n7 doesnt matter" threads is that the people that say it doesnt matter rarely have an n7 level over 400....
its obvious bias.

What do you gain from promoting? the main reason for it was to help get the best ending in single player easier, now with the update in ems it makes it even more pointless imo.

[M A F I A]

OP, yours is a very interesting and thorough post, I not only agree with you but I find your explanations logical. On the other hand, as you stated earlier, on the internet you'll always find some people which blatantly oppose whatever you may state no matter how much circumstantiated you put it.

Shpoon wrote...

N7 rating is not a good indicator of skill. All it indicates is how much a person has promoted their classes. Anybody who gives a certain number (under 120 aside) as a cut-off point for a good player is a buffoon.

Let me guess, you have a N7 Rating of 120, right?
Besides, I have the feeling that SOME N7 120 do not promote to stay shielded by the "I never promoted because I don't care, if I did I would have been N7 100.000 by now" while infact if they actually promoted all the time they would have lacked either the experience, time or devotion to really stand out the crowd.

[FirroSeranel]

Gazz66666 wrote...

Yeah, my endgame score isn't stupidly low. With the Carnifex and Structural Ergonomics gear, i've got a tidy power recharge rate, so I can spam energy drain on shields and incinerate on armour whilst using my pistol. Decoy is specced for duration but when you get three Primes on it it's shields don't last that long, so a quick recharge is pretty handy for that too. I also spend some time drawing aggro during objective rounds. Once did an entire hack before the enemy got to us they were so fascinated by my Decoys.

Assuming the top scorer hits something like between 60-70k points at match end, usually the second place will be around 50-60k and the bottom two - one of whom is usually myself - tend to have scored between 40 to about 48k. I don't think i've been over around 50,000 points many times when playing Decoy Support.

As for point two;  a fair observation, and something I guess I hadn't thought about since as far as ME3 MP is concerned, i'm not particularly motivated to top the leaderboards. I'm not as good/don't have nearly enough time to put in the hours that some people playing do. I'm fairly content to come third or fourth in a Gold game knowing I played my role and had fun doing it.

Cool!  You are a good support player.  I completely understand and respect that you don't have the time or effort to put into truly mastering the game, and I applaud your self-awareness in both realizing and admitting it.

You are not the person I'm talking about who I'd kick after the first game.

I'm talking about games where the top scorer hits 70k, the second and third are 50-60, and the third is 18.  You were helpful, aided the team achieve its objectives, and.... since I'm neither a computer programmed to judge a player solely on score, nor a complete idiot, I'd realize this, and keep you around, maybe even add you as a friend.

[darkpassenger2342]

GreyWardenNathan wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the only thing i continuously gather from these "n7 doesnt matter" threads is that the people that say it doesnt matter rarely have an n7 level over 400....
its obvious bias.

What do you gain from promoting? the main reason for it was to help get the best ending in single player easier, now with the update in ems it makes it even more pointless imo.

 you gain the right to be taken seriously. pretty much nothing else. IMO thats the point the OP has been trying to make all along.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:47 .

[DannyBFTW]

FirroSeranel wrote...

DannyBFTW wrote...

Yes whilst this is all very good and maybe they are the top scorers, they're not top scorer because of their supportive role they are top scorers because they also ran around the map doing other things.
So by your view of how a supportive player works, if I spec my geth turret for full damge, flamethrower etc. then just play normally with the turret, throwing round corners, using it to cover me and kill enemies then I'm a good support player!
Also If I play my Justicar with a full offensive bubble and just get biotic explosions on my own using it and reave, I'm a good support player! 

See where I'm coming from here. You're not scoring well because you are supporting your team, you're scoring well because your killing enemies like anyone else. Just because I ocassionally heal an allies shields once and a while doesn't mean I'm a support player.

Alright, fine.  I concede, you're a good support player if you just restore shields and protect allies with your bubble.

If you can't see that someone else, who restores shields and protects allies with their bubble, -and- kills the badguys (which is the entire point of the game), is a -better- support player, then I think I'm wasting my time.

Yes that is true but you were saying that you should be able to score as well as everyone else whilst playing support, which isn't true.

[Omega2079]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the only thing i continuously gather from these "n7 doesnt matter" threads is that the people that say it doesnt matter rarely have an n7 level over 400....
its obvious bias.

My xbox N7 rank is over 1000. I say it doesn't matter. Is this an obvious case of bias?

[darkpassenger2342]

Omega2079 wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the only thing i continuously gather from these "n7 doesnt matter" threads is that the people that say it doesnt matter rarely have an n7 level over 400....
its obvious bias.

My xbox N7 rank is over 1000. I say it doesn't matter. Is this an obvious case of bias?

 does this edit help?????
sorry you must have passed over the word "rarely"

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:49 .