227 réponses à ce sujet

[Mysteryman2000]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

"N7 past 120 doesn't show skill, it just shows time playing and whether they've bothered to promote."

think maybe the people that have been playing longer have  a better feel for the game?
 guns, enemy habits, level layouts....

the op is right and he was never trying to be rude about it.
 he presents fact.
he also readily admits there are exceptions.

I am only N7 450 and I score more than people in the 2000 range.  I have probably played longer than them, I just don't promote.  It doesn't do anything extra for me, and other than operations there is nothing it helps with in the community.  I could be N7 3000 for all I know, the only thing I have to say to enemy character is come at me bro.

[Soggy-Snake-]

Have at look at my manifest then guess my N7. Low N7 =/= less time played, simply less promotion. Why is this so hard for people to understand.

[Elijini]

FirroSeranel wrote...


That you're a complete moron, and really, really, REALLY enjoy playing games you truly suck at for hundreds and hundreds of hours. This last is facetious and only very, very rarely might actually happen.

I was on the fence about your points until this. So many things are wrong with it. For one, you dont need to be a moron to enjoy something you arent great at. Which brings us to point two, you feel that a bad to mediocre player has to be truly suck to not grow. Not even a little bit. A bad or mediocre player who is having fun, can quite easily play the game for hundreds of hours without growing. They're enjoying themselves, and not pushed to excell or get better, because thats how things are. They plug in bronze, do average, have a ball, and repeat. They promote so they can have the feel of leveling up characters constantly.

Because thats the thing, experience does not automatically net out to growth and skill. If you're doing the wrong thing, or playing poorly, consistantly, thats not going to come out the other end as positive experience for you to draw from. Practice makes perfect, IF you're practicing in a 'right' or constructive way to start with. Practicing bad habits, cements bad habits.

You'll probably dismiss these points, as by merit of making this topic, you're probably a better player. And to better players, the entire concept of investing huge time without a solid win rate, and learning from each match, is entirely alien to you. Its why you're a good player. Its not how everyone is. I know a few people who I like as people, and enjoy their company, but they're awful gamers. Awful. And they dont get better. Because they dont care. They put the game in, have some fun, wind down from their work day and switch off their minds. They dont give a hoot that they're awful, because they're having fun and destressing.

So while you do have some points going for you, for the better part, you're forgetting that bad players are capable of having fun while being bad, and can and will put in hundreds and hundreds of hours in games they arent good at. And you wont have much around the forums to contest your point, because for the better part, the players I have described dont give a crap about the forums. They exist in the game, so long as their machine is turned on and they're having fun. When they're not playing, they most certainly arent reading about the game.

[Combover James]

When I look at a player and try to judge them, I see their N7 rank as a measure of experience along with their weapon loadout. For example, if I see someone with what I would consider a viable loadout using high level weapons, I have no issue with that regardless of their N7 rating. If I see someone with a terrible loadout and low score, it screams that they are inexperienced. For a game like this, experience is particularly important. Skill also plays a role in it and isn't always proportional to their N7 rating, but I feel it gives clues to competence levels. Of course there are the exceptions, like the people with low scores but outrageous weapons and skill, or the level 2930482093482 players who can't kill a swarmer without gelling.

[Dominator454]

I wouldnt say n7 matters for gear. Im only 270 and i have every uncommon at 10, almost every rare at 10 and ive unlocked and even leveled up some of my ultra rares.

[Roc1nante2112]

I will often put more weight on gear than N7 as a measure of experience. That being said, some can spend a lot of $$$ and appear experienced. The combination of the two gives an indication, nothing more, of what you're about to work with.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I passed 1,000 on my N7 over the weekend. That was a goal of mine, and being mostly a weekend warrior, one I was happy to achieve.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

   Some of the worst players I've ever played with have the highest score at the end of the round. They may do a great job of killing everything in front of them, but when the team fails because we used all of our consumables reviving them 30 times by wave 6, I'd have to say the huge score they rack up in five rounds as anything but an indication of high skill.

   It's about 50/50. About half the high scoring players are really, really good (better then me, for sure). However, the other half of the time, I am the better player as a "support" player regardless of score. And if I wasn't getting virtually no points reviving the high scoring player 30 times, he wouldn't be getting a score at all.

   N7 Rank is slightly more indicative of experience, but only a little. I doubt a 2-digit N7 rank is ready for Gold, but a low 3-digit player could be literally any level of skill/experience, and making assumptions ahead of time is going to be significantly inaccurate.

Modifié par Jeremiah12LGeek, 21 mars 2013 - 10:50 .

[MuKen]

You think people have low N7 because they're new?  At this point?  This game is old already.  There are very few new players, and they aren't jumping into your gold/plat matches for the most part anyway.  If someone has a low N7 level, 99% of the time it's because they don't promote.

Yeah N7 rating tells you something.  It tells you they promote a lot, which is either irrelevant or bad.  What does promoting tell you?

1a)  They spend x% of their time in bronze/silver.

-or-

1b)  They repeatedly make a conscious decision to bring less fire power to their next few gold teams, cuz **** 'em, those are strangers and aren't owed the best incarnation of their character(s).

2)  They spend a lot of their time playing with a different, lesser version of their character(s).  You think this improves skill?  No, playing with your character in its final form improves skill.  Part of skill is being intimately familiar with every nuance of the way your character behaves: exactly what their CDs are, exactly how much damage they can take, exactly how much damage they do, etc.  Changing this all the time is not good for your skill development

3)  They have less credits, and thus less packs purchased, than they would right now if they never promoted.


Am I saying these are major factors?  No, N7 level makes little difference in either direction.  But I'm saying if you ARE gonna talk about whatever minor difference it makes, the difference is not positive.

Modifié par MuKen, 23 juillet 2012 - 06:34 .

[codename2o2]

I play with everyone regardless of their N7 rank.

[Major Durza]

I've had more than a few people ask me "Durza, you play very well. Why are you such a low level/N7?" I am a 450, and find the question rather ridiculous. I notice that MOST of the quadruple-digit N7 players are farmers. The people with the highest N7 rating on my friends list all farm. You can se from my manifest that I put a fair amount of time in this game, and complete Gold with rather regular success (Relying on PUGS). Would you kick a N7 450 from Platinum, out of curiosity?

[CaptainFlan]

FirroSeranel wrote...

*laughs* Yes, N7 only indicates how much you promote. Which indicates one of three things:

The amount of experience you have, since to promote enough characters to get into the four-digit range through playing takes hundreds (thousands?) of matches.

The amount and quality of gear you have, since in either playing that many matches, or spending that much money to promote that many characters through pure store XP, you -do- have a nice collection of gear by the four-digits.

That you're a complete moron, and really, really, REALLY enjoy playing games you truly suck at for hundreds and hundreds of hours. This last is facetious and only very, very rarely might actually happen.

(emphasis added)

I'm afraid that if I promote too much, I'm going to feel like I've become this person.  So I'm trying to keep things in the low hundreds and keep expectations lower.

Modifié par CaptainFlan, 24 juillet 2012 - 07:37 .

[Perlicka]

don't care of rank.. looking on weapons and i'm not kicking anyone even for very low or strange loadout

[CaptainFlan]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

   Some of the worst players I've ever played with have the highest score at the end of the round. They may do a great job of killing everything in front of them, but when the team fails because we used all of our consumables reviving them 30 times by wave 6, I'd have to say the huge score they rack up in five rounds as anything but an indication of high skill.

   It's about 50/50. About half the high scoring players are really, really good (better then me, for sure). However, the other half of the time, I am the better player as a "support" player regardless of score. And if I wasn't getting virtually no points reviving the high scoring player 30 times, he wouldn't be getting a score at all.

   N7 Rank is slightly more indicative of experience, but only a little. I doubt a 2-digit N7 rank is ready for Gold, but a low 3-digit player could be literally any level of skill/experience, and making assumptions ahead of time is going to be significantly inaccurate.

-Jeremiah the 12th Level Geek

This is EXACTLY how I feel.

I don't think I'm leet at multiplayer, but I feel I can safely say I'm a competent gold player.  Gold is challenging for me the way silver no longer is, so I would just rather run gold matches now than promote regularly and have to level guys through bronze and silver all over again.  My rating atm is 450 -- and it would be lower if I'd had more respec cards and we hadn't had that weekend where the goal was to promote characters, haha.

But some people aren't like that, and for those people getting a high N7 is fun for them.  I'm not going to cast stones at those players.  I will say though, that I can remember when not long ago a person with a 500 or above rating seemed really high to me and you knew they were probably going to be good.

Now it feel like anyone in the sub-1000 range is a complete crap shoot.

Modifié par CaptainFlan, 24 juillet 2012 - 07:56 .

[Charaxan]

I will talk quickly of me, it will be more accurate :

I never play for experience. As soon as I had a 20 level char, I sticked with it and I tried to train with it so I know it well. I play for money. For missions. For extraction. For fun.

Untill those N7 new characters, I was 450 at my N7 level. When the mod arrived, I tried out all the new characters and maxed them out in random gold, testing and having fun so I took 300n7 ranks in... 10 days ? Six month I played before and I was at 450, and those levels were only because you win experience when you win a character upgrade, and I promoted every other class when they reached level 20 that way.

So : I am full of guns, ammo, gear upgrades, and I can paint my Asari Adept in all the colors I like. But I was still n7 450 ten days ago.

I finished almost all the time in gold (including when apes invaded the team and ran everywhere and dying everywhere) but I was N7 450.

I played a lot with N7 1500 and outranked the most of times. Not because "I am the best", but only because I play since a long time and I think my rank, if I would have played for experience, would have been at that level or more.

N7 does not mean anything. I fixed myself a limit though : N7 of less 100 is often noobs. I check weapons and mods so I can be certain (generaly I am but sometimes I am surprised) and act accordingly.

BUT : if ou can't handle low levels (at least in gold, I don't talk about platinum) you dont earn your big high rank. It only means you can't adapt and you just played for experience and promoting classes, which can be done without firing a single shot... Playing with experienced players and letting them doing the great job.

N7 rank only means you have experience. It does not say if you earned it or... if your team mates gave it to you.

[friedricethem0n]

Err... I'm N7 450 too... But N7 rank matters to a certain degree. Once past N7 300, anything goes. This is because there were a few weekend events in the past that forces you to promote your character as a personal goal to score a UR. So, people like me would only promote if we really need to. I have been playing since the Beta release of multiplayer and I don't like promoting cos I'm in it for the money/credits.

[snackrat]

One thing to keep in mind: someone has to be last. If their score is like, a tenth of everyone elses, yeah, that's odd... though less so if they are a res pony or a healer GE. But saying "you ALL have to top the scoreboard or you SUCK" doesn't... really.. work. That's not how numbers work.
Maybe lobbies that kick the bottom scorers may, over time, get the highest damagers, but most of those high damagers are lone wolves that don't integrate well into a team.

[Ronnie Blastoff]

Have 2 people with the exact same loadout/class/weapon level equipment yada yada... you have to kick one. One of them is a N7 470, the other one is N7 6572. Choose one and tell me N7 doesn't matter. N7 is the "experience" marker. By not promoting your just a big question mark that screams to be booted.

[Charaxan]

That's not because you chose regarding the n7 rank that the n7 matter. As friedricethem0n and me are exemple of experienced player without rank. And I won't kick a player that where here at the beta test where the 6572 could be a cheater.

Rank does not mean a think. People give it sense and then state that it mean something because they give it a sense. That's rhetorical fallacy.

[XXVI26]

codename2o2 wrote...

I play with everyone regardless of their N7 rank.

+1

[CaptainFlan]

hear, hear

[Conduit0]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

Have 2 people with the exact same loadout/class/weapon level equipment yada yada... you have to kick one. One of them is a N7 470, the other one is N7 6572. Choose one and tell me N7 doesn't matter. N7 is the "experience" marker. By not promoting your just a big question mark that screams to be booted.

I'd kick the N7 6572 because he/she is almost certainly a FBWGG farmer who would be completely lost without an L-shaped desk to hide behind.

The reason that N7 is no indicator of skill that so many seem to fail to understand is that you can easily be carried to any N7 level. Since XP is shared, you can sit in a corner picking your nose and still earn the same amount of XP per game as the absolute best players the community has to offer. There is literally no difference in the potential rate of N7 level progression between the best players and the worst players.

[Charaxan]

Conduit0 wrote...

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

Have 2 people with the exact same loadout/class/weapon level equipment yada yada... you have to kick one. One of them is a N7 470, the other one is N7 6572. Choose one and tell me N7 doesn't matter. N7 is the "experience" marker. By not promoting your just a big question mark that screams to be booted.

I'd kick the N7 6572 because he/she is almost certainly a FBWGG farmer who would be completely lost without an L-shaped desk to hide behind.

The reason that N7 is no indicator of skill that so many seem to fail to understand is that you can easily be carried to any N7 level. Since XP is shared, you can sit in a corner picking your nose and still earn the same amount of XP per game as the absolute best players the community has to offer. There is literally no difference in the potential rate of N7 level progression between the best players and the worst players.

Actually I'd kick noone because I don't kick for rank but for equipment. The statement given is a false dilemma, still a rhetorical fallacy ^^

But I agree with the other part of your post and experience shared is always never mentionned by those who think of rank. (of course it is not as glorious as if they earned it themselves !)


My advice : rank does not matter. Those who matter rank matters. Kick them

[Bruno Kitsune]

I like to play to promote my characters and never played with a level 20 character (don’t matter if is platinum or gold), for that reason my N7 rank is a little over 8700. But that doesn’t matter how bad or good the person is. One of the best players I ever played with has rating 1200, just because he get bored of promoted his characters.

Yesterday I and two friends run a match in platinum with a pug with N7 a little over 400, we see that he has a decent gear and we ask if he have all the consumables ready for use, if he needed, he agrees. Result? We have a full extraction with U/U/P (Reactor – Reaper) in little more than 23 minutes.

To make a long story short, I believe for someone play on gold or platinum the person need at last a ranking 120, proving that he leveled all characters at last once. And if possible 4 or 5 consumables of each one, some decent gear on (gear bonus, ammo bonus, etc.) and a good weapon as well.

[MuKen]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

Have 2 people with the exact same loadout/class/weapon level equipment yada yada... you have to kick one. One of them is a N7 470, the other one is N7 6572. Choose one and tell me N7 doesn't matter. N7 is the "experience" marker.

 
Yean the N7 6572 had a bunch of his "experience" playing with low level characters.  Video games are not physical activity, you do not get stronger by playing with weights on.  You get better by playing with your character in their final form so the nuances of the way they work become second nature to you.

If they have the same gear, that means the N7 470 has just as much experience, plus all his experience is with his character in the form he's going to use it in your game in.

By not promoting your just a big question mark that screams to be booted.

It's exactly this mentality that a high N7 shows, which means you should question the motivations of this player.  Promoting and then playing with a low level character expressly means his next few teams are hurt, and he will have slightly less credits in the long run due to taking longer to finish runs (or maybe even failing them).  He made a conscious decision to increase a meaningless number over getting more things of substance.

It's like if you read a report that a cell phone company is investing three times as much of their revenue in advertising instead of R&D as some other company.  I'm gonna go with the other company, the one that invests in having a better product, instead of the one that invests in advertising that they have a good product.

Modifié par MuKen, 24 juillet 2012 - 03:05 .

[Batgang alumni]

I saw an N7 240 with two level X URs... But for the most part, I don't like playing with ppl under 1000 cause they make me waste all my good consumables.