303 réponses à ce sujet

[Sheffstar007]

ok mate waiting for your PM.

[SirFragsALot333]

What I don't understand is that if Bioware can detect software manipulation and accuse people based on their findings, Why haven't they implemented a security feature that detects the origin of where an alteration was made and deal with said cheat exclusively? I get the concept of ban by association, but not all people read on these forums.There are no in game warnings. Now let's be honest, how many people do you think read the terms of service agreement? As far as I remember EA is the only company that goes through all the trouble to protect themselves/their profits.Other games by other developers still manage to deal with modders and cheaters without a terms of agreement thrown at us.

[Helmnath]

I haven't been banned but thought I would reply after seeing those stock replies from 'customer support' (I use the term very loosely after seeing what they deem as customer centric).

I can understand not giving details about what the exploit was but not even acknowledging what you have been accused of doing thats bad esp as they tell you any further emails will be ignored. There should be a process to appeal this is what happens in other games including another bioware title (SWTOR) other than a blanket cut and pasted response.

[steej]

Sheffstar007 wrote...

ok mate waiting for your PM.

Sorry for the delay, RL commitments.

I've now sent it to you.

[upinya slayin]

Helmnath wrote...

I haven't been banned but thought I would reply after seeing those stock replies from 'customer support' (I use the term very loosely after seeing what they deem as customer centric).

I can understand not giving details about what the exploit was but not even acknowledging what you have been accused of doing thats bad esp as they tell you any further emails will be ignored. There should be a process to appeal this is what happens in other games including another bioware title (SWTOR) other than a blanket cut and pasted response.

I'm gonna agree with that. I think they should at least tell you what you've been banned for instead of a blanket "exploiting MP" like missle glitching, host migrating for credits, leeching, modded files etc.

[Sheffstar007]

True guys thanks for that steej

[Manimal]

Helmnath wrote...

...after seeing those stock replies from 'customer support' (I use the term very loosely after seeing what they deem as customer centric).

Exactly.

[steej]

bump

all of this^

It's just not a priority for them is it?
Maybe after the marketing for the new DLC they'll turn their attention back to this issue.

Come one guys, either way give us some decent feed back.
Please?

Modifié par steej, 17 août 2012 - 11:27 .

[Shakespeare212]

SirFragsALot333 wrote...

What I don't understand is that if Bioware can detect software manipulation and accuse people based on their findings, Why haven't they implemented a security feature that detects the origin of where an alteration was made and deal with said cheat exclusively? I get the concept of ban by association, but not all people read on these forums.There are no in game warnings. Now let's be honest, how many people do you think read the terms of service agreement? As far as I remember EA is the only company that goes through all the trouble to protect themselves/their profits.Other games by other developers still manage to deal with modders and cheaters without a terms of agreement thrown at us.

It's in the origin terms of service you have to agree to in order to play, if you don't read it, it's your own fault.  Plenty of other companies follow exactly the same policy.  This conversation is almost an exact replica of the response to the Halo cheating bans on Bungie's forum.

Modifié par Shakespeare212, 17 août 2012 - 12:12 .

[SirFragsALot333]

Shakespeare212 wrote...

SirFragsALot333 wrote...

What I don't understand is that if Bioware can detect software manipulation and accuse people based on their findings, Why haven't they implemented a security feature that detects the origin of where an alteration was made and deal with said cheat exclusively? I get the concept of ban by association, but not all people read on these forums.There are no in game warnings. Now let's be honest, how many people do you think read the terms of service agreement? As far as I remember EA is the only company that goes through all the trouble to protect themselves/their profits.Other games by other developers still manage to deal with modders and cheaters without a terms of agreement thrown at us.

It's in the origin terms of service you have to agree to in order to play, if you don't read it, it's your own fault.  Plenty of other companies follow exactly the same policy.  This conversation is almost an exact replica of the response to the Halo cheating bans on Bungie's forum.

I won't dispute what you said, I'm just saying that there needs to be more clarity to the consumers and that it's something the developers can actually do something about. Both parties should reach out more to solve problems rather than pointing the finger at each other. In defense of the original post, how is someone expected to appeal a ban when they aren't told why they were banned? Bioware could fill in the blanks in private if necessary.

Modifié par SirFragsALot333, 17 août 2012 - 01:06 .

[NobodyOwens]

@ Shakespeare212

Wrong - I'm sick of the EULA argument, and I honestly can't wait to rip it to shreds.

1) When you purchased the game, did the clerk stop you dead in your tracks before you swiped your Credit card, and tell you all of the conditions you would have to agree to when buying the game?

2) Or was it after you paid for the game and OPENED up the case (after which you could not return it).

3) Were there specific guidelines and expectations in the EULA, or was it full of empty Legal banalities (ie legal mumbo jumbo), giving you zero idea as to what to exactly expect in regards to enforcement, etc.

*If you have no idea how or what is going to be enforced, you cannot hope to make an informed decision.

4) Could you truly make an informed decision? Or, having already paid for and open the game, was it more along the lines of that you now HAD NO CHOICE other than to accept.

5) It's sort of a contract, right? I mean, that seems to be the argument. Can I contact a lawyer, and ask them to send bioware a list of my revisions/questions? Would they answer and negotiate, or would they just laugh at me?
No negotiation, no choice, no contract.

You learn in Philosophy of Law 101 that these one-sided "agreements" can only make spurious legal claims. It doesn't give Bioware a blank-check in regards to policy and enforcement, and it certainly doesn't forbid them form performing decent customer service.

And by the way, whenever i hear someone like you invoke the EULA argument, I think to myself: when has anyone even ACCUSED bioware of legal wrongdoing in these arguments? OP is not saying that. The gist of these arguments are "oh hey bioware, I have some questions and concerns about your product that I payed for, and I'm assuming that, in the spirit of goodwill and continued business, you will hear me out".

So, the EULA argument is flimsy, and it shouldn't ever be brought up to a loyal fan/consumer who is just asking bioware a customer-service oriented question. Sure, the mods can stamp the boilerplate "you read the EULA. go play another...squad based...alien...sci fi game...multiplayer...game if you don't like it (sarcasm - there's not too many)", but after awhile it's just trolling to the highest degree, it's dismissive, and it's petty and mean.

Modifié par NobodyOwens, 17 août 2012 - 04:40 .

[steej]

Also i have read the Origin ToS.

It outlines several things that they class as 'cheats'.
As far as i know i have not done any of them. and untill BioWare tells me what they think i've done I shall continue to press the issue.

Bioware have published what it claims to be cheats and the punishments they will dish out on this forum.
But what if someone never comes to this forum?  It's not compulsory after all, and i did not sign up to them!

All I ask is to be treated fairly and for someone to have the common bloody decency to stand up and tell me exactly what i've been accused of.

Modifié par steej, 17 août 2012 - 03:40 .

[Mgamerz]

SirFragsALot333 wrote...

What I don't understand is that if Bioware can detect software manipulation and accuse people based on their findings, Why haven't they implemented a security feature that detects the origin of where an alteration was made and deal with said cheat exclusively? I get the concept of ban by association, but not all people read on these forums.There are no in game warnings. Now let's be honest, how many people do you think read the terms of service agreement? As far as I remember EA is the only company that goes through all the trouble to protect themselves/their profits.Other games by other developers still manage to deal with modders and cheaters without a terms of agreement thrown at us.

I don't know any game that's commercial that doesn't have a license/ToS agreement. You probably never read them.

If you buy the game on a disc and open it you can get a refund. It states that directly in the EULA. If it doesn't, you contact EA for a refund.

Modifié par Mgamerz, 17 août 2012 - 03:42 .

[NobodyOwens]

@Mgamerz

Kind of the point, though:

You're right - he probably didn't read the TOS. No one ever reads these things. I know it. You know it. But EA doesn't know it?

Edit: in fact, it sounds like you're not even sure what's covered in there. Because it's really long, with vague language we aren't familiar with, and if we didn't hear about any sort of EULA  at the counter when we purchased the game, how serious can EA expect people to take it? It's irresponsible to expect people to go through the hassle of taking a game back after paying for it and opening it, because they can't divine what to expect from the GOTCHA! TOS when they finally pop the disc in.

The whole point of my argument against EULA arguments was twofold: that

1) There is only an illusion of contract, of negotiation, of choice, and that it's all a huge hassle and, more importantly:

2) That it's poopy and passive agressive to constantly bring up legality in a conversation where a consumer just wants (what they feel to be) proper customer service. There's nothing in the EULA/Tos that forbids EA from employees from talking to customers, deviating from practice if they choose to do so.

Edit: I mean, it's a TOS, not a gypsy-curse. I promise Bioware that the world won't swallow Canada whole if they deviate from their previous stance and give a customer more information to his/her satisfaction (that's normally standard practice for most industries).

Let's end the conversation of legality/tos and go back to the heart of this thread. No one is accusing anyone of legal wrongdoing, these are consumers who demand more information about why they were forcibly "removed" from using 1/2 of a product that they paid for, and I support them. Regardless of what the TOS may or may not say, it is obviously directed towards the customer, and obviously it does not forbid EA from "going the extra mile" (or perhaps we're still on the original mile?) in regards to making a customer feel informed, heard, or satisfied.

I think it's cruel to play philosophy/logic games with people who may have been jipped out of a game that they paid for. Let's move on to what this thread is really about.

Modifié par NobodyOwens, 17 août 2012 - 04:27 .

[Sheffstar007]

Been 3 days nearly since replied to them still haven't got back to me, i can't even access any single player data as my DLC in single player is not being read, saying something in lines of dlc not found when trying to load my SP games. Basically banned me from MP as well as not me being able to play SP because they f***** things up on there side, really getting frustrating as i wont even be able to play new DLC which is coming out on 28th. I feel used and abused of £60 from Bio Ware, i will never purchase any games in future from them as they have poor customer service as well as EA, shame they make good games cant sort your account issues out asap.

[Unit 431]

Sheffstar007 wrote...

Been 3 days nearly since replied to them still haven't got back to me, i can't even access any single player data as my DLC in single player is not being read, saying something in lines of dlc not found when trying to load my SP games. Basically banned me from MP as well as not me being able to play SP because they f***** things up on there side, really getting frustrating as i wont even be able to play new DLC which is coming out on 28th. I feel used and abused of £60 from Bio Ware, i will never purchase any games in future from them as they have poor customer service as well as EA, shame they make good games cant sort your account issues out asap.

If what you are saying is true....

...then Bioware bans people by directly cutting off online authorization mechanisms, in the sense that a user is present, and said user can verify that he, in fact, is the one using the game - BUT - the user cannot access the contents of his authentication, simply because it has been removed whatsoever. 

That's just one theory though. In any case, can I ask on the details or any message whatsoever that shows up whenever you try to load your game?

Addenum 1: You do own the DLC right? If so, then can I inquire if you included a Gibbed weapon from MP (probably the Resurgence pack) to SP?

Modifié par Unit 431, 17 août 2012 - 04:57 .

[Sheffstar007]

They told me i can still access dlc from sp and DLC which i purchase obviously i cant, so i been robbed of playing the game at all.

[Unit 431]

Did you already hit third reply in the mail investigation? If so, then I think your chances are slim. Any screenshot of the event sent to them (if you are resigned to being banned) would be helpful.

[Sheffstar007]

The guy told me i shouldn't be banned from sp DLC was gonna have look still hasn't got back to me.

[Unit 431]

Ah, that's fine and dandy then. If it does not get resolved though, it shows an issue with regards to banning and DLC (or future DLC) authorizations and acquisitions.

It shows that ME3 has no seperation whatsoever with the MP and SP aspect. Sure, assets may be shared, but the problem is that code for both MP and SP should have a clear-cut seperation with regards to game mechanisms. It is fine if the things that are shared were the core game aspects and visual/audio assets that only thrived in SP. Apart from that, data should be seperate, both for SP and MP.

Modifié par Unit 431, 17 août 2012 - 05:22 .

[Sheffstar007]

yeh thats what i thought just shows how bad Bio ware are when coming to do things like that,

[SirFragsALot333]

Mgamerz wrote...

SirFragsALot333 wrote...

What I don't understand is that if Bioware can detect software manipulation and accuse people based on their findings, Why haven't they implemented a security feature that detects the origin of where an alteration was made and deal with said cheat exclusively? I get the concept of ban by association, but not all people read on these forums.There are no in game warnings. Now let's be honest, how many people do you think read the terms of service agreement? As far as I remember EA is the only company that goes through all the trouble to protect themselves/their profits.Other games by other developers still manage to deal with modders and cheaters without a terms of agreement thrown at us.

I don't know any game that's commercial that doesn't have a license/ToS agreement. You probably never read them.

If you buy the game on a disc and open it you can get a refund. It states that directly in the EULA. If it doesn't, you contact EA for a refund.

Sorry, what I meant to say was that EA games seem to be the only ones that display their TOS on the disk prompting you to agree on the spot. Keep in mind I'm aware that TOS'  are usually written in the user mannual and that I'm talking about consoles, not PCs because the instalation process requires all sorts of user agreements. Also It's near impossible to get a refund when the box is opened and I'm not inclined to spend money on postage
to send it directly to EA.  By the way I stopped reading most TOS' years ago because I don't speak in Legal terms, I speak english lol.

Modifié par SirFragsALot333, 17 août 2012 - 10:39 .

[SirFragsALot333]

Sheffstar007 wrote...

The guy told me i shouldn't be banned from sp DLC was gonna have look still hasn't got back to me.

I hope this gets fixed for you, better yet I hope they lift your ban because of the customer service you've been getting.

[Manimal]

NobodyOwens wrote...

I'm sick of the EULA argument.

1) When you purchased the game, did the clerk stop you dead in your tracks before you swiped your Credit card, and tell you all of the conditions you would have to agree to when buying the game?

3) Were there specific guidelines and expectations in the EULA, or was it full of empty Legal banalities (ie legal mumbo jumbo), giving you zero idea as to what to exactly expect in regards to enforcement, etc.

*If you have no idea how or what is going to be enforced, you cannot hope to make an informed decision.

5) It's sort of a contract, right? I mean, that seems to be the argument. Can I contact a lawyer, and ask them to send bioware a list of my revisions/questions? Would they answer and negotiate, or would they just laugh at me?
No negotiation, no choice, no contract.

You learn in Philosophy of Law 101 that these one-sided "agreements" can only make spurious legal claims. It doesn't give Bioware a blank-check in regards to policy and enforcement, and it certainly doesn't forbid them form performing decent customer service.

And by the way, whenever i hear someone like you invoke the EULA argument, I think to myself: when has anyone even ACCUSED bioware of legal wrongdoing in these arguments? OP is not saying that. The gist of these arguments are "oh hey bioware, I have some questions and concerns about your product that I payed for, and I'm assuming that, in the spirit of goodwill and continued business, you will hear me out".

So, the EULA argument is flimsy, and it shouldn't ever be brought up to a loyal fan/consumer who is just asking bioware a customer-service oriented question. Sure, the mods can stamp the boilerplate "you read the EULA. go play another...squad based...alien...sci fi game...multiplayer...game if you don't like it (sarcasm - there's not too many)", but after awhile it's just trolling to the highest degree, it's dismissive, and it's petty and mean.

Many good points here.

[steej]

I have found out that the EU court has ruled the we own digital products once we have paid for them, rather than paying for a service, we actually own the licence (so we could go ahead and sell them if we wanted to!).

Anyway, what this means is that BioWare have in effect stolen our online pass, the ones we paid for.

Check out PCGamer, Issue 243, page 8.
and here;
http://www.gameinfor...spx?PageIndex=2

Now by my reconing, BioWare, you are in breach of European Laws.
Why?
The product that i own, the one i bought from you, is incomplete.
You might be based in Canada or the US, but you trade in the EU.


My "registered game content " clearly states that I have one "Online Pass (N7 Collector's Edition)" registered to my account.

Please give it back.

Modifié par steej, 19 août 2012 - 10:33 .