303 réponses à ce sujet

[dysturbed0ne]

steampunk1850 wrote...

i would be willing to have all my items reset instead of this ban. I got it legally the first time quickly with grinding and I can do it again but having no access to multiplayer without at least being able to defend myself or see the evidence is upseting.

You would be willing to have your account reset even though you claim you didn't do anything? If you are innocent email BW and ask them to investigate.

[Bravenu3]

Beerfish wrote... Those are the rules that are set out by BioWare. [...] They have a very ironclad no cheating policy and that is the best way to not allow that line to creap backwards.

If the rules produce punishment for the wrong people, they might not really be optimal. That's why patching the exploitable glitches and other cheats is so important. To reduce dependency on rules that have to be created down-stream of the probem and could result in punishing the wrong people.

[JoxerNL]

Anyone else enjoying cheaters getting caught?

[Silasqtx]

dysturbed0ne wrote...
You would be willing to have your account reset even though you claim you didn't do anything? If you are innocent email BW and ask them to investigate.

If they ban you the first time it seems like something's wrong, otherwise you wouldn't be banned. I'm being realistic, I really hope that I'll get my unlocks back (love you Valiant I :'<) but it probably won't happen. The team will confirm that for some reasons I've "cheated" and will confirm the ban. That's why I'll settle for a wipe instead of a ban. Let me play this damn game once again rather than uninstalling it and throwing it out the airlock.

[Feauce]

Every time I see threads like this pop up, I'm reminded of when I played MMOs... For a bit of perspective, check this out. Item dupers. High-level, more-or-less regular players (not Asian money-farmers), many of which got permanent bans for what they did. Even the ones that only got temp bans lost what they'd gained. Some justified it by saying drop rates were too low, so they didn't have any other choice. The funniest part was, after these bans happened, they increased the drop rates for those zones (a couple times, if memory serves).

My overall point is, if you cheat while playing an online game, expect to be banned from it. If you were banned, chances are you either cheated or repeatedly joined in with a group of others that did. Anyone will admit there's some margin for error, but the rules are the rules. That's partly why people are so worked up about the power-based Missile Launcher, because it makes it much more difficult to spot whether someone is or isn't rocket-glitching on that class.

[Beerfish]

Bravenu3 wrote...

Beerfish wrote... Those are the rules that are set out by BioWare. [...] They have a very ironclad no cheating policy and that is the best way to not allow that line to creap backwards.

If the rules produce punishment for the wrong people, they might not really be optimal. That's why patching the exploitable glitches and other cheats is so important. To reduce dependency on rules that have to be created down-stream of the probem and could result in punishing the wrong people.

The fact that they have not for some reason corrected the exploits is a whole other issue, totally separate from people exploiting the current issues and has no bearing at all on guilt, innocence or punishment.  People have been resinstated if they have a proper case.  Since we don't know exactly what telemetry data BioWare has we can't judge their judgement effectively.

[Y4bz1]

upinya slayin wrote...

Bravenu3 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...Because they are STARING YOU IN THE FRIGGIN FACE each time you play the game.  The "I didn't know hgow many creds I had" is a very poor and unbelievable defense.

Yes it is. I just stated that I would like to have the game not be exploitable, so I don't have to worry about exploits.

thats liek saying you'd rather have no way for people to kill each other so you wouldn't have to worry about being killed. its impossible to cover everything. We as a gaming community need to not take advanatge

I agree with you up to a point on this... While we should not be taking advantage of this BioWare should fix this issue and then the point will be moot...  It would be one thing if this was a new issue but it seems to have been around for a while so when does it become BioWares responsibility to fix the issue? Don't get me wrong I am not defending the action but I am saying the issue can be resolved and be a non issue...

[NM_Che56]

Bravenu3 wrote...

Master Che wrote... You can switch from private to public after your buddies get on.

Didn't know that, thanks! I hop BW can track such changes in the lobby settings.

Master Che wrote... In the end, association is not proof of guilt, but it makes you a suspect nevertheless, right?  If you're with someone and they rob a bank, then unless you call the police and snitch your ass off you'll be arrested and questioned before they decide whether or not to charge you.

Yes, but here, the questioning part is not happening before the verdict and punishment, is it? This seems more like "Guilty as charged, no trial, punishment commences immediately".

Yes, but the "appeals" process is the difference.  You're summarily banned; however, they will look deeper if asked.  In court, unless something was done that compromised the integrity of the decision (e.g. withholding exculpatory evidence), then the verdict is final.  Appeals can take YEARS.

At the end of the day, what matters is that if you truly are just an unfortunate sap, then you're likely to be reactivated; however, the message is clear: Don't play dumb.  If you play often enough, then you have a good feel for the reward schedule (e.g. Full extraction on Gold nets you about 70-74k, on Silver 30k or so).  If you're playing on Gold and you get a full extraction and earn a million credits, then you're either a noob or content with profiting from the cheat.


To OPs later point, if someone is clever and doesn't get greedy, then it may not be obvious to you. I personally don't track how many missles someone fires off or who's doing it.  I just play the game and kill as much as I can.  It would have to be blatantly obvious that someone it glitching.  But those subtle cases should be pretty easy to resolve.

[SimulatedSnowman]

Bravenu3 wrote...
If the rules produce punishment for the wrong people, they might not really be optimal. That's why patching the exploitable glitches and other cheats is so important. To reduce dependency on rules that have to be created down-stream of the probem and could result in punishing the wrong people.

I agree with you here. However, cheaters are pretty industrious folks. Even with extremely dilligent design and patching, there's always going to be people who figure out ways around it. The ideal situation would be that people could be taken at their word when they say they really didn't know what was going on, but that's often not the case. It sucks for the people who are not cheating that get punished for it, but it sometimes happens, and the best thing they can do is hope the people in charge are looking and listening to what's going on.

[Bravenu3]

upinya slayin wrote...thats liek saying you'd rather have no way for people to kill each other so you wouldn't have to worry about being killed. its impossible to cover everything.

There is very profound difference between guns and software bugs. Were are not talking about achieving world peace here.

The core source of many cheats in ME3 seem to be:
- the lack of separate, encrypted config file(s) for MP mode
- mission rewards editable on the user's side
- credits not written to the profile data in a timely manner, but only at the end of the match.

If those problems were fixed, I'm sure there would be less cheater problems AND these goodies on top:
- SP mods that wouldn't affect MP
- less problems with lost credits and XP due to connection problems

Modifié par Bravenu3, 18 juillet 2012 - 08:35 .

[steampunk1850]

dysturbed0ne wrote...

steampunk1850 wrote...

i would be willing to have all my items reset instead of this ban. I got it legally the first time quickly with grinding and I can do it again but having no access to multiplayer without at least being able to defend myself or see the evidence is upseting.

You would be willing to have your account reset even though you claim you didn't do anything? If you are innocent email BW and ask them to investigate.

I have but it seems they never get back to you or just say guilty after their "review".  I had a problem late June because of a computer crash that reset N7 score but nothing else and then my computer crashed again and I just got back on.  However I looked a some of the replies to my post asking for help and everyone was saying I had cheated for a variety of reasons (I dont play weekends because I have a side job and so i almost never do the Operations, I simply do not have time, so I dont have any of the rewards)(another was because I don't like certain maps so I have not done them on gold so no Unwavering achievement). 

[birkster]

Mabe I've misread, but didn't you admit in your post that you glitched? You even said sorry for the bad things you've cleary done. TUT TUT !

[dysturbed0ne]

Bravenu3 wrote...

Beerfish wrote... Those are the rules that are set out by BioWare. [...] They have a very ironclad no cheating policy and that is the best way to not allow that line to creap backwards.

If the rules produce punishment for the wrong people, they might not really be optimal. That's why patching the exploitable glitches and other cheats is so important. To reduce dependency on rules that have to be created down-stream of the probem and could result in punishing the wrong people.

I have seen very few people, with what appears to be a ligitimant arguement for wrongly getting banned, coming to the boards and complaining. Just because there are ways to rob a bank, doesn't mean it is ok to rob the bank. Just because my car can go over 140, doesn't mean when I get caught speeding it is the car manufacturers fault for making the car with a speeding cabability. Do I speed....sometimes......who's fault is it if I get caught....mine.

Modifié par dysturbed0ne, 18 juillet 2012 - 04:36 .

[Silasqtx]

birkster wrote...

Mabe I've misread, but didn't you admit in your post that you glitched? You even said sorry for the bad things you've cleary done. TUT TUT !

I'm taking everything in consideration. The fact that I've joined a glitching match, the fact that someone hacked and got X additional credits, but mostly the fact that I've spent all the credits on day one because I thought they were ok.

[Bravenu3]

SimulatedSnowman wrote... However, cheaters are pretty industrious folks. Even with extremely dilligent design and patching, there's always going to be people who figure out ways around it.

But that's exactly not the case in ME3. Cheating can be done by editing a file in ones harddrive and exploting glitches that seem to be triggerable easily. Getting back to the gank robbery example, that's like locking neither front door nor vault at night.

PS: I love what the devs of Max Paine 3 did to cheaters. That's the stylish solution :-D

[shedevil3001]

this is 1 of the reasons i wont join public games, i wouldnt know how to tell if a game has been hacked, so its easier and safer just to host my own or join my friends games, and this missile launcher glitch thing, i didnt even know you could cheat with that thing mean as half the time it doesnt even hit the target, or if it does nothing happens

[Silasqtx]

Bravenu3 wrote...
PS: I love what the devs of Max Paine 3 did to cheaters. That's the stylish solution :-D

That's an interesting solution.

@shedevil I hear you.


http://i48.tinypic.com/xnvkeg.jpg

Modifié par Silasqtx, 18 juillet 2012 - 04:41 .

[Bravenu3]

dysturbed0ne wrote... Just because my car can go over 140, doesn't mean when I get caught speeding it is the car manufacturers fault for making the car with a speeding cabability. Do I speed....sometimes......who's fault is it if I get caught....mine.

Yes, but my point is (in this example): if car manufacturers would simply not build cars that could go faster than the allowed limits, there wouldn't be as much speeding.

AKA: Tackling a weed at its roots, instead of at the leaves.

[Clayless]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

We do also look at some peoples multiplayer manifests and if they have ever weapon ultra-rare at 10, including ones we released a day ago we will typically investigate that account. Not saying that is what is happening here but when this happens it is very obvious to all to see.

Though technically if you save up something crazy like 30 million credits would it be possible to get all UR's to 10, if all your rares are full?

[formicae]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Though technically if you save up something crazy like 30 million credits would it be possible to get all UR's to 10, if all your rares are full?

He said 'investigate.' They're not banning people who suddenly get all the URs, just taking a look.

[Pitznik]

I don't understand your post, OP. You at the same time argue that you didn't cheat and in the same post, ask for less harsh penalties for cheaters. Why? If you didn't cheat, you don't deserve to be penalized in any way, you did nothing wrong. If you cheated, you broke the rules of multiplayer service and you deserve your ban.

Cheaters spoil Bioware's profits from this game, and it is those profits that keep them releasing additional content. So it is in our best interest to have cheaters banned.

[tfoltz]

Seems like you knew someone was cheating and kept playing with them to get the cash. The fact that you would agree to wipe your manifest supports this, because no innocent player would be willing to wipe a manifest that took hundreds of hours to obtain. If not, good luck.

[Rodia Driftwood]

Yikes.. I'd hate to be playing with some butthurt players and have them report me for hacking when in reality, I was only stealing their kills.

[Siran]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

We do also look at some peoples multiplayer manifests and if they have ever weapon ultra-rare at 10, including ones we released a day ago we will typically investigate that account. Not saying that is what is happening here but when this happens it is very obvious to all to see.

But I'm hoping you don't go on that indication alone, are you? Had it not been for the Particle Rifle released last week, I'd have had the Typhoon at X already, as I saved up almost 7mil credits before Earth DLC hit and got 13 UR out of my 67 PSP - meaning without the PR I'd have the Typhoon maxed in a matter of an hour by spending the legitimately earned credits.

[steampunk1850]

The ban is extra hard on PC players since we cannot buy an online pass and game is still over $50 most of the time. I just find it cruel to ban players without allowing them to defend themselves or even tell them why they were banned. I wish BW would just reset items and credits the first time "exploiting/cheating" is detected so at least players, like me, could play still and appeal the removal of items/credits instead of being banned completely from MP.