164 réponses à ce sujet

[Daithin]

So I’m playing threw the game again, and since coming to the forum I’ve noticed one particular inclination for people to want to be crowned Queen/king or put someone who DOES NOT WANT to be king on the throne.
 
My question is, why?
 
Why would you want to be a king or a queen?
 
For me as I played threw, even now as I play threw again. I don’t feel any necessity to being King or forcing Alistair to be king. I’m a Grey Warden, sure I don’t have an army or troops under my command but at the same time I am respected for the most part.
 
As a character I count Alistair as a friend, so as his friend I would never force him to be king. That isn’t what he wants. 
 
At the same time, I’m proud to be a Grey Warden, I’m proud to help my Order restore their rightful name. No King or Queen can do that, even if I was to be made King or Queen. I couldn’t force my people to worship the wardens. That comes by winning their trust.
 
So why is it that people want to be sidelined from there adventure to be a King or Queen. 
 
We saw threw out the game that the King and Queen are mostly figure heads. Being in power means you are bond to things you might not agree with. You can’t force to much change on people or else you are likely to end up on the chopping block.
 
I’d much rather be a Grey Warden fighting roving bands of Darkspawn then being a king or queen, actually making people’s lives safer.
 
 
So why do so many, or you the reader in particular think the only happy ending for the story is putting you or Alistair, or you and Alistair on the Throne?

Modifié par Daithin, 17 décembre 2009 - 08:48 .

[Taleroth]

The ending of The Quest is known as The Goal. Described as:

The Hero has won it all: treasure, kingdom, and Princess. There is "an assurance of renewed life stretching indefinitely into the future."

Source: http://tvtropes.org/...SevenBasicPlots

The kingdom implies that you get to lead it as the king. It's a part of western canon. Where we've been cultured to expect the story to go.


And let us not forget that the father of modern medieval fantasy is Lord of the Rings.  Featuring Aragorn's crowning.

Modifié par Taleroth, 17 décembre 2009 - 08:55 .

[Volourn]

"At the same time, I’m proud to be a Grey Warden,"



Not everyone is proud to be a member of an organization that enslaves and curses you under threat ot death even if the main is the same.



Plus, my first character was a dwarf noble who felt he had every right AND obligation to be king since he doens't want the incomeptent but nice Harrowmont or the evilly corrupt bastard brother Bhelen to have it. My paragon dwarf felt he could best serve HIS people as king.



Thankfully, I kinda got my wish in a roundabout way thanks to Harrowmont's incompetence.



R00fles!

[Herr Uhl]

Well, power is a lure. If you are out to good, you can do a lot more good by providing stability to a country than killing stray darkspawn.



Even though I like the man/woman behind the king deal better.



Short answer: Anora is hawt.

[Bullets McDeath]

It's the highest office in the land, and in a fantasy game, the ultimate "I win!". I saved the country, now I'm gonna rule over it as King Awesomepants and have my own royal ****house! What!? Elves can't be king?!? I'm stuck in camp after credits?! **** THIS STUPID GAME BIOWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ReubenLiew]

Cos it's good to be the king.



Now all I need is Frostmourne.

[Bullets McDeath]

Also, Herr Uhl makes a very good point when he brings up Anora's high lickability factor.

[Taleroth]

outlaworacle wrote...

Also, Herr Uhl makes a very good point when he brings up Anora's high lickability factor.

You can't have an unattractive Anima.  It simply won't do.

[SarEnyaDor]

I laugh at you who choose to be king because of Anora - she didn't put out for 5 years with Cailan, you think you'll fare better?

I, on the other hand, got to sample the goods in camp, and Alistair is gooood. LOL

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 17 décembre 2009 - 09:04 .

[KariTR]

In every playthrough I have done, Alistair, whether romanced, hardened, unhardened, non-romanced, has always wanted to take the crown before seeing it go to Anora. That hasnt needed a "persuade" option; in my games, the only time persuade is needed is if a) I want him to marry my PC, or I want him to marry Anora.
Basically, yes he is reluctant to take the crown - as he almost says: who wouldnt be? - but he knows his duty lies in that direction once the Blight is taken care of. He also does a good job ruling
No doubt there are different ways the game plays out depending on a player's approach, but supporting Alistair's bid to be King can be the ultimate act of friendship, not the opposite as your experience suggests.

As for my hero, sometimes they live, sometimes they die, sometimes they rule, sometimes they don't. I don't really see the point in playing only one way and I am sure many of those "insisting" to be made monarch are the same way. I do agree with outlaworacle who said it is the ultimate "win" button in an RPG game though.

Modifié par KariTR, 17 décembre 2009 - 09:09 .

[Herr Uhl]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I laugh at you who choose to be king because of Anora - she didn't put out for 5 years with Cailan, you think you'll fare better?

Putting out is in the deal for her remaining queen. Oh yeah!

[bobsmyuncle]

I have no idea. I'm completely 100% with you on this.

But I suspect it has to do with either wanting power or wanting a fairy tale happy ending. With Alistair, it's the only way in game to marry him, never mind that rather than having a proposal you just sort of announce to everyone in general that you're going to be married, taking him for granted.

As for power, a lot of people dislike the way certain groups are treated in the game world and want to be able to change all of it. Get rid of the Alienage/integrate elves, free the circle and so on. I always ask Anora to get the Chantry out of the Circle, but I have no illusions about that being an amicable divorce.

Also, because my mage PC is my "canon" and I want to selfishly keep Alistair to myself, I put Anora on the throne and walk away to Warden it up. It's good for the Wardens too, because it preserves the Order's political neutrality. I always thought it was pretty irresponsible of the Wardens to prance about on the surface and only go to the Deep Roads alone when they get old. I'd start recruiting and training units of Wardens to send underground and start fighting like we mean to win.

[Bullets McDeath]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I laugh at you who choose to be king because of Anora - she didn't put out for 5 years with Cailan, you think you'll fare better?

I, on the other hand, got to sample the goods in camp, and Alistair is gooood. LOL

To be fair, I think I find the character attractive mainly because she reminds me a very spoiled princess type girl I dated in high school. Come to think of it, she was frigid like an icebox, too...  Now if I could figure out why my brain reads these traits as "attractive", I could probably improve my life alot...

Nah, I'll just play some more videogames.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 17 décembre 2009 - 09:07 .

[ReubenLiew]

Herr Uhl wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I laugh at you who choose to be king because of Anora - she didn't put out for 5 years with Cailan, you think you'll fare better?

Putting out is in the deal for her remaining queen. Oh yeah!

We all knew Cailan liked playing with his sword more than sticking it in.
Herr Uhl is man enough to make sure she gets it where it counts!

[ejoslin]

My city elf sure didn't want Anora to be queen. She had more trust that Alistair would be better to elves than Anora had been. My human noble wanted the power of the throne.

[XOGHunter246]

i rather be killing darkspawn then sitting on throne all day

[bobsmyuncle]

KariTR wrote...

In every playthrough I have done, Alistair, whether romanced, hardened, unhardened, non-romanced, has always wanted to take the crown before seeing it go to Anora. That hasnt needed a "persuade" option; in my games, the only time persuade is needed is if a) I want him to marry my PC, or I want him to marry Anora.
Basically, yes he is reluctant to take the crown - as he almost says: who wouldnt be? - but he knows his duty lies in that direction once the Blight is taken care of. He also does a good job ruling
No doubt there are different ways the game plays out depending on a player's approach, but supporting Alistair's bid to be King can be the ultimate act of friendship, not the opposite as your experience suggests.

As for my hero, sometimes they live, sometimes they die, sometimes they rule, sometimes they don't. I don't really see the point in playing only one way and I am sure many of those "insisting" to be made monarch are the same way. I do agree with outlaworacle who said it is the ultimate "win" button in an RPG game though.

Do you ever talk to Anora beforehand so she doesn't betray you? In my game Alistair is always dragging his feet about being king. He'll do it because Eamon is pushing for it so hard, but he doesn't want to. He's always relieved when I get him off the hook, because he doesn't have to be king and Eamon can be mad at me instead of him.

[ejoslin]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

KariTR wrote...

In every playthrough I have done, Alistair, whether romanced, hardened, unhardened, non-romanced, has always wanted to take the crown before seeing it go to Anora. That hasnt needed a "persuade" option; in my games, the only time persuade is needed is if a) I want him to marry my PC, or I want him to marry Anora.
Basically, yes he is reluctant to take the crown - as he almost says: who wouldnt be? - but he knows his duty lies in that direction once the Blight is taken care of. He also does a good job ruling
No doubt there are different ways the game plays out depending on a player's approach, but supporting Alistair's bid to be King can be the ultimate act of friendship, not the opposite as your experience suggests.

As for my hero, sometimes they live, sometimes they die, sometimes they rule, sometimes they don't. I don't really see the point in playing only one way and I am sure many of those "insisting" to be made monarch are the same way. I do agree with outlaworacle who said it is the ultimate "win" button in an RPG game though.

Do you ever talk to Anora beforehand so she doesn't betray you? In my game Alistair is always dragging his feet about being king. He'll do it because Eamon is pushing for it so hard, but he doesn't want to. He's always relieved when I get him off the hook, because he doesn't have to be king and Eamon can be mad at me instead of him.

When I didn't harden Alistair, he didn't want to be king.  When I did, he wanted to be.   When I made him king, he was a bit annoyed with me, but he pushed for it for sure when hardened.

[Kealvis1]

My Human noble is based on Commodus, the Roman emperor in the film The Gladiator, and the last time I watched that movie he was quite power hungry. It would only be natural of my human noble to try to become a king.

[Prisoner24601]

But I suspect it has to do with either wanting power or wanting a fairy tale happy ending. With Alistair, it's the only way in game to marry him, never mind that rather than having a proposal you just sort of announce to everyone in general that you're going to be married, taking him for granted.

I'm guessing it's mostly this.  I think it's hilarious actually that players push him to be king, when he clearly doesn't want to (unless you harden him I guess) and then get upset when he dumps the grey warden.

Honestly, Anora as queen makes more sense, to me anyway, than Alistair as king. Alistair is a nice guy, but I just can't picture him making the hard decisions that a king would have to make. So keeping them both as Grey Wardens and abdicating the throne seems like a more natural place for the
plot to go. Or even marrying him to Anora because they each have qualities the other lacks and would balance each other out nicely.

Modifié par Prisoner24601, 17 décembre 2009 - 09:28 .

[gotthammer]

I never wanted to be King...



...Emperor, on the other hand, sounds quite nice.



Reason?

"Unlimited Power!" *does force lightning hand motion*

[Imryll]

Naimh, my current elven mage, wants Alistair to be king because she doesn't trust Anora to treat the people of the Alienage well. If there were someone else who looked to be the sort of good king Wynne describes, she'd be happy to let Alistair off the hook. As it is, he's going to need to tough it out.



Also, when you first meet his father at the beginning of The Stolen Throne, Maric is pretty much a mass of insecurity. I'm thinking that Alistair is a lot like his father and likely to grow into the position.

[DragonRageGT]

KariTR wrote...

In every playthrough I have done, Alistair, whether romanced, hardened, unhardened, non-romanced, has always wanted to take the crown before seeing it go to Anora. That hasnt needed a "persuade" option; in my games, the only time persuade is needed is if a) I want him to marry my PC, or I want him to marry Anora.
Basically, yes he is reluctant to take the crown - as he almost says: who wouldnt be? - but he knows his duty lies in that direction once the Blight is taken care of. He also does a good job ruling
No doubt there are different ways the game plays out depending on a player's approach, but supporting Alistair's bid to be King can be the ultimate act of friendship, not the opposite as your experience suggests.

As for my hero, sometimes they live, sometimes they die, sometimes they rule, sometimes they don't. I don't really see the point in playing only one way and I am sure many of those "insisting" to be made monarch are the same way. I do agree with outlaworacle who said it is the ultimate "win" button in an RPG game though.

Beautifuly said!

So far my first PC, Human hero, in 3 runs have:
Saved the both of us - He's King alone (thanks to the bi.. err...witch)
Saved him and made him a married King and at last he followed Oghren's advice (any woman, no pants involved)
Saved myself and married Anora - She IS hawt, indeed!

Now with my city elf, I'm gutting every human I get the chance... but still so early in game... he's full of Rage!

[KariTR]

ejoslin wrote...

bobsmyuncle wrote...

KariTR wrote...

In every playthrough I have done, Alistair, whether romanced, hardened, unhardened, non-romanced, has always wanted to take the crown before seeing it go to Anora. That hasnt needed a "persuade" option; in my games, the only time persuade is needed is if a) I want him to marry my PC, or I want him to marry Anora.
Basically, yes he is reluctant to take the crown - as he almost says: who wouldnt be? - but he knows his duty lies in that direction once the Blight is taken care of. He also does a good job ruling
No doubt there are different ways the game plays out depending on a player's approach, but supporting Alistair's bid to be King can be the ultimate act of friendship, not the opposite as your experience suggests.

As for my hero, sometimes they live, sometimes they die, sometimes they rule, sometimes they don't. I don't really see the point in playing only one way and I am sure many of those "insisting" to be made monarch are the same way. I do agree with outlaworacle who said it is the ultimate "win" button in an RPG game though.

Do you ever talk to Anora beforehand so she doesn't betray you? In my game Alistair is always dragging his feet about being king. He'll do it because Eamon is pushing for it so hard, but he doesn't want to. He's always relieved when I get him off the hook, because he doesn't have to be king and Eamon can be mad at me instead of him.

When I didn't harden Alistair, he didn't want to be king.  When I did, he wanted to be.   When I made him king, he was a bit annoyed with me, but he pushed for it for sure when hardened.

To answer bobmu, yes I have "double-crossed" Anora. I tell her I will support her and do the opposite at the Landsmeet - Arl eamon warns you to keep her close. When questioned, Alistair will tell you he believes he should be King, but that playthrough was the only time I had him hardened. I much prefer him unhardened to be honest - I enjoy the ambiguity.

Which leads me to you ejoslin. Up until the point I mention, Alistair never wants to be King, hardened or no. Infact he doesnt exactly "want" to be King even when hardened. What needs to be understood, however you play it out, is that "want" is completely the wrong adjective to use, but as it is the only option available in game you will never get the answer you desire. It's genius on Bioware's part that they really make us read between the lines and heavily rely on how well we know Alistair. My own PCs' relationships with Alistair make them (and me) think he is happiest being King. It's great that the OP has an experience that tells him the opposite.

[Bibdy]

"If I ruled the world, everything would be better!" - Everybody, ever.