164 réponses à ce sujet

[Drunkencelt]

KariTR wrote...

In every playthrough I have done, Alistair, whether romanced, hardened, unhardened, non-romanced, has always wanted to take the crown before seeing it go to Anora. That hasnt needed a "persuade" option; in my games, the only time persuade is needed is if a) I want him to marry my PC, or I want him to marry Anora.
Basically, yes he is reluctant to take the crown - as he almost says: who wouldnt be? - but he knows his duty lies in that direction once the Blight is taken care of. He also does a good job ruling
No doubt there are different ways the game plays out depending on a player's approach, but supporting Alistair's bid to be King can be the ultimate act of friendship, not the opposite as your experience suggests.

As for my hero, sometimes they live, sometimes they die, sometimes they rule, sometimes they don't. I don't really see the point in playing only one way and I am sure many of those "insisting" to be made monarch are the same way. I do agree with outlaworacle who said it is the ultimate "win" button in an RPG game though.

Allistar throws a fit if you try to make him king except under very specific circumstances. You have to force/talk/persaude him into it.

He states this fact clearly through out the game, talks of his nobility, why you lead the party,ect...

He is deathly afraid to lead anything or anyone.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Daithin wrote...

So I’m playing threw the game again, and since coming to the forum I’ve noticed one particular inclination for people to want to be crowned Queen/king or put someone who DOES NOT WANT to be king on the throne.
 
My question is, why?
 
Why would you want to be a king or a queen?
 
For me as I played threw, even now as I play threw again. I don’t feel any necessity to being King or forcing Alistair to be king. I’m a Grey Warden, sure I don’t have an army or troops under my command but at the same time I am respected for the most part.
 
As a character I count Alistair as a friend, so as his friend I would never force him to be king. That isn’t what he wants. 
 
At the same time, I’m proud to be a Grey Warden, I’m proud to help my Order restore their rightful name. No King or Queen can do that, even if I was to be made King or Queen. I couldn’t force my people to worship the wardens. That comes by winning their trust.
 
So why is it that people want to be sidelined from there adventure to be a King or Queen. 
 
We saw threw out the game that the King and Queen are mostly figure heads. Being in power means you are bond to things you might not agree with. You can’t force to much change on people or else you are likely to end up on the chopping block.
 
I’d much rather be a Grey Warden fighting roving bands of Darkspawn then being a king or queen, actually making people’s lives safer.
 
 
So why do so many, or you the reader in particular think the only happy ending for the story is putting you or Alistair, or you and Alistair on the Throne?

Alistair does want to become king.

[tausra]

Eh I'd rather join Isabella's pirate crew and go Hunting Johnny Depps' on the Amaranthine Ocean than be queen. Now that should be an option!

[Tirigon]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Don't understand it either myself. I can't really see the allure in ruling, especially since, in many cases, the real power lies not with a Monarch but those behind the scenes. A monarch does not have absolute power to change, and between the Chantry and Nobility, you really have to tap dance through a minefield of intrigue.

Thats actually wrong. First thing I´d do would be to have every noble who supported Anora and Loghain executed as traitors, as well as everyone whose loyalty I doubt. Next thing would be to officially declare Fereldan for secularized (or whatever the word is) so that the chantry has no power anymore. The order of the templars will have to swear loyalty on the King (ME:devil:), otherwise being outlawed. Anyone trying to influence me to rule behind the scenes will then be accused of treachery and banished or executed, depending on whether his influence is strong enough to threaten me from the foreign lands.
Any mercenary groups, such as the Blackstone irregulars, will have to swear loyalty to the crown or be declared to criminals. I will also send ambassadors to the crows of Antiva and Orzammar. The crows will get paid to work exclusively for me. Any Lyrium trade with groups other than those with special permission by the king will be forbidden.
So no worries with anything.

[tausra]

Sounds great! Oh wait this is Ferelden, where farmers fought mounted Chevaliers with sticks and rocks. People love the Chantry, people generally like their Arls and wouldn't stand for mass executions. This isn't the French Revolution, which ended very very badly by the way.

[Vicious]

Strictly from the POV of a Male Human Noble:


Because I don't like the idea of putting the bastard son of a spent line that has failed Ferelden's people and my family in particular throughout history.

The Theirin line means a lot. Yes it has quite a bit of history. But the Couslands are much, much older, and historically always battled against Tyrants, even the originator of the Theirin line, Calenhad the Silver Knight. The history books say Calenhad was the good guy - sure - he won. He also recruited my family at the tip of a sword. Something that should not be forgotten.

MY OWN GRANDFATHER fought and died against the Orlesians who took over the kingdom under, surprise surprise, the Theirin line. I know, I have his shield. [shield of Highever] We remained loyal despite all that happened, all we suffered. I was PROMISED JUSTICE by the last of the Theirin line, Cailan. And what does he do? Get himself KILLED and nearly hands over Ferelden to the DARKSPAWN. And no Justice. At all. I have to take it myself.

So who ends up saving Ferelden? A COUSLAND. Not a Theirin. And they want me to put the [maybe] last Theirin on the throne? A foppish oaf who doesn't even WANT to be King, unless *I* Personally convince him to?!!?

I'd sooner lick lyrium off Andraste's ass.

I think the better question is, why would a Male Human Noble NOT pursue the throne? I'd consider it my duty. The Theirin line is NOT needed. Not for ending the blight, not for bringing peace and prosperty to Ferelden, not for anything. As I said, they are a spent line and IMHO their time has come and gone.


/rant off

And please note this does not apply to female human nobles.

Modifié par Vicious, 18 décembre 2009 - 01:31 .

[Tirigon]

tausra wrote...

Sounds great! Oh wait this is Ferelden, where farmers fought mounted Chevaliers with sticks and rocks. People love the Chantry, people generally like their Arls and wouldn't stand for mass executions. This isn't the French Revolution, which ended very very badly by the way.

Knights were liked in France too, nevertheless that one King (forgot his name) could wipe the templars out when he accused them of treachery. They were the most  powerful and richest order then.
And to the "People love the chantry" stuff: not all do. Like in every society, there are different sorts of people. And like in every society the majority will follow the dictator.

[PatT2]

why does it not apply to female human nobles? Our line is the same line...we are couslands and our history is the same. So we bring one better. The Cousland line to the throne, under the apparent legitimacy of the Therin line. Can there be a better option?

[eschilde]

I'd sooner lick lyrium off Andraste's ass.

Considering all that's said about lyrium and Andraste, this probably really isn't such a bad thing.

[Thiefy]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Awww let us not kid ourselves!

Most girls (that can afford this game and the hardware to play it) were raised with the notion that they're princesses! Its only a natural state of progression that their inner child wants to manifests itself as Queen!

oh please, i think it's safe to say that the vast majority of female players here would rather be the warrior lady than queen. unless they get to be like Xena, who was a warrior-princess. hey I think it's plausible for Fereldan. I just got the two prequel books and I think there is a back story that describes that situation...

but really, i think it's also equally safe to say that the majority of fangirls also had alistair at 100% adore/love before even getting the prince dialouge. it's not a deal breaker or maker for someone like Alistair.

[Vicious]

PatT2 wrote...

why does it not apply to female human nobles? Our line is the same line...we are couslands and our history is the same. So we bring one better. The Cousland line to the throne, under the apparent legitimacy of the Therin line. Can there be a better option?

I absolutely agree, until I read that it's impossible to have a child with Alistair due to both being Grey Wardens. I haven't really considered the implications of such, nor what if any claim your elder brother's children may have. Feel free to offer your perspective.

[ComTrav]

Depends a lot on your characters goals. (I'm surprised how many Human Male Nobles kicked Morrigan/Leliana/Zevran to the curb to marry Anora to become King. Even if Anora is a stone cold fox with an ice queen exterior you can't help but want to melt.)



Paragon > King imo. (Sure, you here about King Maric all game, but how many giant-sized statues does he have?)

[Thiefy]

ComTrav wrote...

Depends a lot on your characters goals. (I'm surprised how many Human Male Nobles kicked Morrigan/Leliana/Zevran to the curb to marry Anora to become King. Even if Anora is a stone cold fox with an ice queen exterior you can't help but want to melt.)

Paragon > King imo. (Sure, you here about King Maric all game, but how many giant-sized statues does he have?)

Good point, paragons MAKE kings, afterall. As well as establish your bloodline as noble and done they get a thaig named after them?

[Tylyanhar]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I laugh at you who choose to be king because of Anora - she didn't put out for 5 years with Cailan, you think you'll fare better?

Putting out is in the deal for her remaining queen. Oh yeah!

We all knew Cailan liked playing with his sword more than sticking it in.
Herr Uhl is man enough to make sure she gets it where it counts!

You just owned Cailan . Anyway, my pc chose to be king cause my human noble was power-hungry and wanted it all... including the queen.

[Tirigon]

Is it possible to become a Paragon? Or King of Orzammar?

[The Capital Gaultier]

Tirigon wrote...

Is it possible to become a Paragon? Or King of Orzammar?

I think it is for Dwarves only, and prince/princess instead of king/queen.

Modifié par The Capital Gaultier, 18 décembre 2009 - 02:23 .

[eschilde]

ComTrav wrote...

Paragon > King imo. (Sure, you here about King Maric all game, but how many giant-sized statues does he have?)

Can't you ask for a statue as a reward? Never tried it, know there's an option though.

[Herr Uhl]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Is it possible to become a Paragon? Or King of Orzammar?

I think it's for Dwarves only, and prince/princess instead of king/queen.

Yeah, it would be weird if an elf became paragon.

[XOGHunter246]

yeah dwarf only

[Herr Uhl]

eschilde wrote...

ComTrav wrote...

Paragon > King imo. (Sure, you here about King Maric all game, but how many giant-sized statues does he have?)

Can't you ask for a statue as a reward? Never tried it, know there's an option though.

I ask for that everywhere, or a commemorative plate at least.

[PatT2]

Vicious wrote...

PatT2 wrote...

why does it not apply to female human nobles? Our line is the same line...we are couslands and our history is the same. So we bring one better. The Cousland line to the throne, under the apparent legitimacy of the Therin line. Can there be a better option?

I absolutely agree, until I read that it's impossible to have a child with Alistair due to both being Grey Wardens. I haven't really considered the implications of such, nor what if any claim your elder brother's children may have. Feel free to offer your perspective.

Have child with a surrogate mother. Well, it's done these days, anyway. Artificial insemination? I dunno. My pc's brother (cousland) can still have kids and had better hurry.

[Volourn]

"Or King of Orzammar?"



Yes, as a dwarf noble.

[InverseReality]

I think it's cool different people have different motivations for or against being the ruler. Like, when you have a character reason (e.g. power hungry noble) for your character to do it, or to put Alistair on the throne.

What bugs me is when players just go for the crown because it is, as someone said, the ultimate fantasy game "win." And win, I suppose = happily ever after? Aaagh. To me, I think the beauty of an immersive game like DA:O is in playing a character, and coming up with that character's motivations and perceptions of the world. Maybe I've been talking to too many Alistair fangirls, but to me, he seems like a royally bad choice for kingship unless he's been hardened. But again and again I hear that kingship is  "the best ending." I disagree. (Also a little disturbed that so many women have the same fantasy of marrying a queen and becoming queen. Nothing wrong with fantasies... I just had hoped for a little more ambition from players than letting their character become some rich man's wife.)

As a storyteller though, the most interesting ending to me is, "to be continued." Because life is like that. If the Warden survives, I don't want to think about him/her spending the rest of their life ruling benevolently over their peaceful country. Or maliciously as a tyrant. I like the endings best when it's open-ended, where the Warden's story could continue. This DA:O story has clearly ended, but a really good story would let us continue to image what could be. Why is it sad when the Warden doesn't stay with his/her romantic interest? How many relationships have you had under high stress circumstances that turned out to be lifelong partnerships? It's not that these stories don't happen, but realistically, I think it's natural for people to part ways, to go on other adventures.

So, there's my few cents of rants.

Modifié par InverseReality, 18 décembre 2009 - 03:09 .

[XOGHunter246]

InverseReality wrote...

I think it's cool different people have different motivations for or against being the ruler. Like, when you have a character reason (e.g. power hungry noble) for your character to do it, or to put Alistair on the throne.

What bugs me is when players just go for the crown because it is, as someone said, the ultimate fantasy game "win." And win, I suppose = happily ever after? Aaagh. To me, I think the beauty of an immersive game like DA:O is in playing a character, and coming up with that character's motivations and perceptions of the world. Maybe I've been talking to too many Alistair fangirls, but to me, he seems like a royally bad choice for kingship unless he's been hardened.But again and again I hear, "that's the best ending." I disagree.

As a storyteller, the most interesting ending to me is, "to be continued." Because life is like that. If the Warden survives, I don't want to think about him/her spending the rest of their life ruling benevolently over their peaceful country. Or maliciously as a tyrant. I like the endings best when it's open-ended, where the Warden's story Could continue, but this DA:o story has clearly ended. Why is it sad when the Warden doesn't stay with his/her romantic interest? How many relationships have you had under high stress circumstances that turned out to be lifelong partnerships? It's not that these stories don't happen, but realistically, I think it's natural for people to part ways, to go on other adventures.

So, there's my few cents of rants.

your a role player like me so this would annoy you some people aren't really the same just play the game for best results.

[andysdead]

Taleroth wrote...

The ending of The Quest is known as The Goal. Described as:

The Hero has won it all: treasure, kingdom, and Princess. There is "an assurance of renewed life stretching indefinitely into the future."

Source: http://tvtropes.org/...SevenBasicPlots

The kingdom implies that you get to lead it as the king. It's a part of western canon. Where we've been cultured to expect the story to go.


And let us not forget that the father of modern medieval fantasy is Lord of the Rings.  Featuring Aragorn's crowning.

Aragorn was arguably not the main character, however.

In fact, a good number of the main characters faded into obscurity following the end of the story.

But I see your point.