164 réponses à ce sujet

[eschilde]

What? How can you become queen by yourself? I thought there was a huge thread in which DG shot that whole idea down.

[AntiChri5]

Tirigon wrote...

You have to become queen or king if you want to save Ferelden. If you dont, the only choice is between a power-hungry, cruel, treacherous **** (aka Anora) and a nice guy with a good heart (Alistair), who is, however, neither willing nor able to rule. So, until a DLC or mod adds more possible leaders for Ferelden every true Warden has to sacrifice his lust for travelling and become ruler, for the sake of the people.

Allistair makes a great king

[Original182]

Tirigon wrote...

You have to become queen or king if you want to save Ferelden. If you dont, the only choice is between a power-hungry, cruel, treacherous **** (aka Anora) and a nice guy with a good heart (Alistair), who is, however, neither willing nor able to rule. So, until a DLC or mod adds more possible leaders for Ferelden every true Warden has to sacrifice his lust for travelling and become ruler, for the sake of the people.

You can put Alistair on the throne all by himself. He has good advisors like Arl Eamon to advise him. Only Alistair has the Theirin bloodline, assuming Maric doesn't have anymore illegitimate children.

If you want to soften the blow, take Morrigan's ritual, and live so that you can be there for Alistair as a friend, to help him rule.

Modifié par Original182, 19 décembre 2009 - 04:01 .

[Original182]

eschilde wrote...

What? How can you become queen by yourself? I thought there was a huge thread in which DG shot that whole idea down.

Why, you want to dump Alistair now that you don't need him to be queen lol. Kidding, just kidding. It's just a rumour that I read. So it must not be true then.

[ejoslin]

You can't be queen by yourself, BUT you also don't need to romance Alistair to be queen. You just need to marry him. If you're human noble and at 100 friendly, he'll marry you; it doesn't matter if he's hardened or not.

[Thiefy]

Original182 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Original182 wrote...
No dear, it is more accurate for females. Saying that men marry women just for their money is like saying women think of sex all the time. It's the other way round.

I see that you're just trying to turn the tables. But it's not gonna make it less true.

Not really. Women do think about sex all the time, we are just smart enought to use it against guys, lol. People here are claimg that most people who become king or queen do it for the status, or "because they can", like it's the main end goal, or for bragging rights instead of from an RP perspective.

I'm arguing this is more true for men than women, because the woman actually care for Alistair. It's not like the guys marry Anora for sex anyway.

In Alistair and Anora's specific situation, you're quite right. Alistair did start out as the commoner, and Anora started out as the queen, i.e. sugar mama. But you must admit that surely female gamers do romance with Alistair just so they can be queen. Not the majority, but some do.

I've heard rumors that a female noble PC can be queen all by herself.
If that's true, then female noble PCs who romance with Alistair because they love him has more weight.
If that's not true, then it's more probable that female noble PCs romance Alistair just to be queen, since it is the ONLY route to becoming queen.

I never said that there aren't females who marry Alistair just to become queen. I said most and/or majority, but never all. There's a difference. Somehow the beginning of the thread went from "why do guys/girls do this?" to a lecture about how it's sad that in this day and age "women are still gold diggers and it's sad that they just want to marry and be well off", to paraphrase a few posts into one idea.

Men do it too, and in the case of marrying Anora, they are more likely to do it for money/status/bragging/whatever than a female marrying Alistair.

And your rumors are wrong. It's been told over and over again you can only be a ruler through marriage. The only way to get the marriage accepted is by being a noble human.

[Daithin]

I wholeheartedly disagree with that Tirigon.



I love Ferelden, but it's safer without a ruler with a time limit. Its safer with me at the gates watching for the next atrocity to come, not stuck on a throne waiting for random reports. At least that is how I see it.



Ferelden is impotent to me any my character, I don't care if I get glory I just want it to persist. Ferelden has existed for hundreds of years as a formal nation. It will continue to be so. Even if I cant control policy I don't think it lessens my place to the world.



For those talking about the majority of women do this, and the Majority men do this, so on and so forth. Lets keep gender or race debates out of this thread. It will cuase more problems then its worth. An I am enjoying the way this thread is going so far.



All and all this debate is great, its cool to see everyone's point of view. I don't agree with everyone but then again that's what opinions. I think its safe to say anyone who posts in this thread is agreeing to the "Lets agree to Disagree." clause that comes with civil debating. No need to get hot under the coalor at anything said here. We are all mostly reasonable, posters after all, Right?

[Original182]

Daithin wrote...
Ferelden is impotent to me any my character, I don't care if I get glory I just want it to persist. Ferelden has existed for hundreds of years as a formal nation. It will continue to be so. Even if I cant control policy I don't think it lessens my place to the world.

If you talk to Arl Eamon at Redcliffe after the Landsmeet, depending on what you chose, he will say that you need Alistair because otherwise, Ferelden may degrade into numerous clans fighting civil wars again. And it was like that before Calenhad Theirin came and united all of them into Ferelden.

The Theirin bloodline is such a powerful symbol that it could have been the thing that glued all the nobles together all these years.

So for the good of Ferelden, for Ferelden to persist and exist as a nation, you need Alistair as king. Let's not take any chances of civil war.

We are all mostly reasonable, posters after all, Right?

On the Internet? Well....*twiddles thumbs*

Modifié par Original182, 19 décembre 2009 - 05:21 .

[DPSSOC]

Daithin wrote...

I wholeheartedly disagree with that Tirigon.

I love Ferelden, but it's safer without a ruler with a time limit. Its safer with me at the gates watching for the next atrocity to come, not stuck on a throne waiting for random reports. At least that is how I see it.

But as a Grey Warden you only really care about a specific kind of atrocity and to be fair you can feel that coming.  It'd be weird admittedly for the prince/princess consort (I believe that's the title you're given) to just stand up and declare there are darkspawn to kill but whatever, it makes you quirky.

I do think though that some people misunderstand the position the PC takes if they marry Alistair or Anora.  This act doesn't make you King/Queen it makes you the person married to the Queen/King.  A real life example I can think of is the Queen Mother, when her husband died she did not take his place her daughter did, because she wasn't of the royal bloodline she'd simply married into it.  So the PC most likely has no real power beyond convincing the ruler and Banns/Arls/Teryns of the proper course of action.

Daithin wrote...

Ferelden is impotent to me any my character, I don't care if I get glory I just want it to persist. Ferelden has existed for hundreds of years as a formal nation. It will continue to be so. Even if I cant control policy I don't think it lessens my place to the world.

Ok I'm going to assume that's a type-o and you meant important (correct me if I'm wrong), and with that assumption I agree.

Daithin wrote...

For those talking about the majority of women do this, and the Majority men do this, so on and so forth. Lets keep gender or race debates out of this thread. It will cuase more problems then its worth. An I am enjoying the way this thread is going so far.

Agreed

Daithin wrote...

All and all this debate is great, its cool to see everyone's point of view. I don't agree with everyone but then again that's what opinions. I think its safe to say anyone who posts in this thread is agreeing to the "Lets agree to Disagree." clause that comes with civil debating. No need to get hot under the coalor at anything said here. We are all mostly reasonable, posters after all, Right?

Knock on wood (if you don't get it don't worry)

Modifié par DPSSOC, 19 décembre 2009 - 05:29 .

[Kuravid]

I think you can only be a prince consort, and I'm not exactly sure if you become a legit queen or not.



As for people wanting to become king or queen, you might want to take a look at the book The Hero With A Thousand Faces. Becoming the king/queen is the ultimate boon after a long journey of self-discovery and challenging obstacles.

[Kuravid]

Taleroth wrote...

The ending of The Quest is known as The Goal. Described as:

The Hero has won it all: treasure, kingdom, and Princess. There is "an assurance of renewed life stretching indefinitely into the future."

Source: http://tvtropes.org/...SevenBasicPlots

The kingdom implies that you get to lead it as the king. It's a part of western canon. Where we've been cultured to expect the story to go.


And let us not forget that the father of modern medieval fantasy is Lord of the Rings.  Featuring Aragorn's crowning.

This is actually a part of a larger mythos that is pretty much universal, though the king part is definitely western in origin. The stages of "the quest" go something like this: there is a need that requires your purpose, you refuse your aid at first or feel unworthy until something within you changes and you go onto complete the quest anyway, you receive some kind of supernatural aid that helps you in your journey (e.g. mage, wizard, magic talisman, etc) journey of self-discovery where the old "you" dies in birth of the new significantly more heroic you, go through a bunch of trials, meet up with the villain and then, at the end, you are given the ultimate boon, which usually means you become king.

[Vicious]

, he will say that you need Alistair because otherwise, Ferelden may degrade into numerous clans fighting civil wars again. And it was like that before Calenhad Theirin came and united all of them into Ferelden.

That, my friend, was a long, long time ago. Think of the things that happened while the Theirins are in charge, and realize that the Theirins are not needed to end the blight and save Ferelden, and you have to ask... besides Calenhad uniting Ferelden, what did the rest of them do besides lose the country to Orlais and subsequently regain it and then nearly lose it to the Darkspawn all over again?



Calenhad united Ferelden by virtue of having the biggest sword. The history books like to leave out that the guy never attended a Landsmeet without an entourage of bodyguards including Mages.



The Theirins had their chance. They even waved at it as it passed by.



Symbolism stands little chance against ineptitude.

[Original182]

Vicious wrote...
That, my friend, was a long, long time ago. Think of the things that happened while the Theirins are in charge, and realize that the Theirins are not needed to end the blight and save Ferelden, and you have to ask... besides Calenhad uniting Ferelden, what did the rest of them do besides lose the country to Orlais and subsequently regain it and then nearly lose it to the Darkspawn all over again?

Theirins are not needed to end the Blight, but then again neither are the other rulers. This isn't about the Blight. This is about ruling Ferelden.
Even if you want to use the Blight as an argument, having a Grey Warden King would ensure that the Grey Wardens won't be expelled again like what happened in the past. The Theirin bloodline is now interwined with a Grey Warden, and it now symbolises Ferelden AND defeating the blight. It has been made even more meaningful.

Losing the country to Orlais has been corrected by Maric restoring Ferelden independence.

Nearly losing Ferelden to the darkspawn was not caused by Cailan's incompetence. It was due to the betrayal of Loghain. Cailan wanted to bring in Orlesian Wardens to help with the Blight.

Calenhad united Ferelden by virtue of having the biggest sword. The history books like to leave out that the guy never attended a Landsmeet without an entourage of bodyguards including Mages.

The Theirins had their chance. They even waved at it as it passed by.

Whether it was because he had the biggest sword, prettiest face, biggest muscles, etc was irrelevant. What matters is he was the only who could unite Ferelden, when no one else could. That stands for something. Even if it doesn't mean anything to you, it means something to Ferelden people like Arl Eamon.

Symbolism stands little chance against ineptitude.

They aren't mutually exclusive. Alistair is unwilling to rule, and may not have the experience, but he can surround himself with experienced advisors like Arl Eamon to help him. To say that choosing Alistair is just symbolism and heaps of ineptitude is very inaccurate.

I still strongly support Alistair on the throne based on the Theirin bloodline alone.

Modifié par Original182, 19 décembre 2009 - 08:02 .

[Daithin]

However there is a very strong chance that Alistair is the last of the Theirin line. Is it not more difficult for Grey Wardens to have children in general aside from just having them with other Grey Wardens? There is a chance Alistair will never produce a child.



I can be very wrong on that I don't know the myth's on children and Grey Wardens.

[Original182]

Daithin wrote...

However there is a very strong chance that Alistair is the last of the Theirin line. Is it not more difficult for Grey Wardens to have children in general aside from just having them with other Grey Wardens? There is a chance Alistair will never produce a child.

I can be very wrong on that I don't know the myth's on children and Grey Wardens.

According to David Gaider, Warden + Warden = 0% chance to have children.
Warden + someone else = some chance to have children.

Some chance is better than nothing I guess. As long as there is some chance, you gotta take it.

[westiex9]

Daithin wrote...

I wholeheartedly disagree with that Tirigon.

I love Ferelden, but it's safer without a ruler with a time limit. Its safer with me at the gates watching for the next atrocity to come, not stuck on a throne waiting for random reports. At least that is how I see it.

But don't all rulers have a time limit? 30 is quite a long time in politics and those 30 will be the pc's best. for my part im partially drawn to the throne because of a desire for power(i know its kinda selfish but i like games which allow you to take on big roles) and because as far as im concerned anora isn't what ferelden needs. i mean yes she is a skilled ruler but compared with my pc her paultry 5 years count for nothing

1.i crowned a dwarven king
2. swayed the landsmeet to my side
3. gathered the largest and most diverse army thedas has seen since the tevinter imperium
4. and then convinced the most unwilling candidate that he needed to do his duty
5. and stood by him as any good right hand would

Ferelden needs a dynamic and progressive set of rulers to lead her forward, not a power mad daughter of an equally paranoid tyrant. I mean under the reign of the warden and Aliistair the land prospers. Anora may have been good for the nations economy but she didnt do a thing for the peoples of the alienage, they were persecuted and ignored as if they didn't exist.

And so compared with this power hungry and vicious queen  who would have executed allistair at a moments notice, im going to say Ferelden would fair far better under the protection of a warrior queen who also has enough skill to play politics like checkers.

[Original182]

As long as the Theirin bloodline is in tact, you're cool.

Btw there is a slight typo in your signature. Cousland should start with a capital C.

[westiex9]

Original182 wrote...

As long as the Theirin bloodline is in tact, you're cool.
Btw there is a slight typo in your signature. Cousland should start with a capital C.

Lol i never noticed that typo, Mum always said i was a lazy speller

And yep the Theirins are in safe hands

Modifié par westiex9, 19 décembre 2009 - 09:06 .

[Korva]

westiex9 wrote...

In my pc's case it was more of an equal partnership, my character was the strength and support behind the throne while allistair was the symbol the people needed. but then everyone would have different views on choosing to rule beside him.

Well, yes, you can become the power behind the throne, but it doesn't take being consort to reach that influence. The purpose of the consort is simple: provide the monarch with at least one legitimate heir. That will be difficult enough of one of the pair is a Warden. With two Wardens it's impossible, so a female consort-PC cannot fulfil her purpose.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Tirigon wrote...

You have to become queen or king if you want to save Ferelden. If you dont, the only choice is between a power-hungry, cruel, treacherous **** (aka Anora) and a nice guy with a good heart (Alistair), who is, however, neither willing nor able to rule. So, until a DLC or mod adds more possible leaders for Ferelden every true Warden has to sacrifice his lust for travelling and become ruler, for the sake of the people.

Alistair is able and willing (read: wanting) to become king.

[westiex9]

Korva wrote...

westiex9 wrote...

In my pc's case it was more of an equal partnership, my character was the strength and support behind the throne while allistair was the symbol the people needed. but then everyone would have different views on choosing to rule beside him.

Well, yes, you can become the power behind the throne, but it doesn't take being consort to reach that influence. The purpose of the consort is simple: provide the monarch with at least one legitimate heir. That will be difficult enough of one of the pair is a Warden. With two Wardens it's impossible, so a female consort-PC cannot fulfil her purpose.

True but there are ways of getting around this problem, not that i am in anyway recommending that female grey wardens use blood magic to enhance fertility

[Darrian79]

Daithin wrote...

So I’m playing threw the game again, and since coming to the forum I’ve noticed one particular inclination for people to want to be crowned Queen/king or put someone who DOES NOT WANT to be king on the throne.
 
My question is, why?

My city elf put Allistrair on the throne after the Landsmeet because priority #1 was stopping the Blight, not making people happy.  Siding with Allistair guaranteed humanity would fully act to help the wardens fight the Darkspawn, preserved a useful party member, and preserved the support of Earl Eamon. Simple enough?

[Tirigon]

Original182 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

You have to become queen or king if you want to save Ferelden. If you dont, the only choice is between a power-hungry, cruel, treacherous **** (aka Anora) and a nice guy with a good heart (Alistair), who is, however, neither willing nor able to rule. So, until a DLC or mod adds more possible leaders for Ferelden every true Warden has to sacrifice his lust for travelling and become ruler, for the sake of the people.

You can put Alistair on the throne all by himself. He has good advisors like Arl Eamon to advise him. Only Alistair has the Theirin bloodline, assuming Maric doesn't have anymore illegitimate children.

If you want to soften the blow, take Morrigan's ritual, and live so that you can be there for Alistair as a friend, to help him rule.

I dont care for any bloodlines, and I dislike Arl Eamon. Eamon is very ungrateful after what you did for him, and he is even willing to side with Loghain if he doesnt get the majority in the Landsmeet. Alistair might be a good ruler, but in my first  (and only completed) playthrough he sacrificed himself killing the archdemon because he didnt want to be king without me, and couldnt marry an elf mage. He might be better if he is hardened, though. Im gonna try this on my next playthrough.

[Koralis]

InverseReality wrote...

What bugs me is when players just go for the crown because it is, as someone said, the ultimate fantasy game "win." And win, I suppose = happily ever after?

My hag forced Allister onto the throne, got the girl, and remained behind to "help" the puppet king.  Muhahah!
 

[Loki330]

[quote]Daithin wrote...

However there is a very strong chance that Alistair is the last of the Theirin line. Is it not more difficult for Grey Wardens to have children in general aside from just having them with other Grey Wardens? There is a chance Alistair will never produce a child.

I can be very wrong on that I don't know the myth's on children and Grey Wardens.[/quote]

According to David Gaider, Warden + Warden = 0% chance to have children.
Warden + someone else = some chance to have children.

Some chance is better than nothing I guess. As long as there is some chance, you gotta take it.

[/quote]
I thought in regard to Warden  + Warden he just said it was *really* low.