88 réponses à ce sujet

[gimmethegepgun]

Doommarine23 wrote...

Yes, the "switching" was a mistake because I misread, I noticed and fixed it in my edited post.

I am not even going to bother arguing the rest, as it comes back to my weapon niche argument which you guys just don't seem to be understanding me on, and I don't have any better way to explain it.

And as you may notice, I edited to take note that you fixed your numbers.
And your weapon niche argument is defeated by the fact that the Phalanx, an Uncommon, is about the same dps (at similar levels, but being an UNCOMMON it's easy to get to X, while the Eagle's level is limited), far easier to aim at range, far easier to headshot with, is better against armor, and, oh yeah, is an UNCOMMON rather than an N7.

Modifié par gimmethegepgun, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:18 .

[Rifneno]

Thank God. I was going to be on blood pressure meds soon if I had to deal with more "eagle is teh awesome because look at my totally fictional numbers" after getting screwed one more time by BW and the RNG.

[HrivnakScott]

I opened up a beautiful Eagle IV

[Scudman_Alpha]

 Crusader III here


and eagle II


Screw you  RNG...

[CmnDwnWrkn]

I'd rather get an Eagle than a Crusader, I'll tell you that much. An ultra-heavy shotgun crippled by shield gate? No thanks!

[Untonic]

Doommarine23 wrote...

gimmethegepgun wrote...

Doommarine23 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Doommarine23 wrote...

Doing some basic math (something I already showed).

102 x 20 = 2,040 HURRICANE 1
74 x 24 = 1,776 HURRICANE 10

128x20 = 2,560 EAGLE 1
93x24 = 2,232 EAGLE 10

Sure, it does a bit less damage, but at the expense of being lighter, accurate, and low-recoiling.

You also both just missed/ignored my points over your head and also answered them at the same time.

You didn't do any math, you just spouted numbers and expected to be taken seriously. Now I take you even less seriously. Do you not know the stats of the weapons in question, or are those numbers... hell, I don't even know what those numbers even might be. Clip size? Clip size doesn't increase with levels on SMGs. Damage per shot? It's going lower at higher levels so doubtful, not to mention they're all grossly inaccurate.

https://docs.google....bWc&output=html Here, enjoy your education. Start with the part where the hurricane has fully double the dps of the eagle.

You mean something that the Eagle can do and that the other SMGs that are "weaker" can also do. Showing it as a trade-off of the Hurricane, as no gun in this game is truly meant to be upgrades. The Eagle is a lighter and easier to control sidearm that is much more reliable. If you're playing a spec or class that can be close-range, maybe the Hurricane is better suited for you, but if not? Its basically a useless noise maker, whereas the Eagle can actually serve as a backup that doesn't have to be melee range.

The eagle does serve a role that the hurricane doesn't, but the eagle's role is one used by MANY guns, and a lot of them are better at it. The hurricane is better at its role than anything except, arguably, the Reegar.

I am not going to keep this going nor reply as you obviously have ran out of argument, becoming passive-aggressive and insulting my intelligence, you do not have to agree with me, just as I do not agree with you, but I respect your opinions, if you expect a serious "intelligent" conversation with someone, you have to gain some maturity before I even start to take you seriously.  I am not getting into an internet ad hominem war with you over a game's weapons.

I should have specified and that was my mistake, but those were the magazines and damage per shot of the Eagle and Hurricane, along with their overal damage per-magazine.  I got all those stats ironically from the same source you did, I use it very often and maybe I'm using it wrong, but hey its just a game, I never figured my "science" to be correct. 

102 x 20 = 2,040 HURRICANE 1
74 x 24 = 1,776 HURRICANE 10

[color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">128x ]20[/color] = 2,560 EAGLE 1
[color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">93x ]24[/color] = 2,232 EAGLE 10 

Damage Per Shot
Magazine Size

The Hurricane is so low because that is its true magazine, it takes 2 ammo per shot. The stat page even says this. Sure the Hurricane can out DPS, and thats fantastic, but the Eagle is still a light automatic weapon that has similar damage per magazine that is far more accurate and controlable, while being in the pistol class, thus granting it specific pistol bonuses to certain class/races and weapon mods. Even other SMGs can out-damage the Hurricane per-magazine (Tempest) while being way more accurate and controllable.

I stand firm that every gun in this game is not supposed to be "better" than each-other, if this was true we would not have 50 guns in the game with unique trade-offs and stats.

Never mind that you switched the numbers between 1 and 10, and also your numbers for both Eagle 1 and Hurricane 10 are wrong.
Here's the actual numbers: 
Eagle 1: 75x24
Eagle 10: 93x24
Hurricane 1: 102x20
Hurricane 10: 128x20
Oh, and the Hurricane has a RoF of 600 spm, compared to Eagle's 400.
So higher damage, faster firing. Oh, and the Hurricane gets Heat Sink, which vastly improves its effective magazine size, as well as its reserve ammo.

Yes, the "switching" was a mistake because I misread, I noticed and fixed it in my edited post.

I am not even going to bother arguing the rest, as it comes back to my weapon niche argument which you guys just don't seem to be understanding me on, and I don't have any better way to explain it.

Ladies, please, enjoy what you have before the end of the world.

[Controllerfreak]

I hope I get an upgraded eagle or hurricane. I love both those guns.

[Veramocor]

There are two sides to every schwartz.  HURRICANE V!

Xiphos Systems wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...

Woah woah, what's wrong with Eagle V?

Many internets to you, friend.

On topic, just got me an Eagle IV. Still no Hurricane...

[Trontor]

Tipsyfresh wrote...

 Commendation pack weapon: eagle V 

With a high amount of sarcasm: thanks, this is what I feel I earned for multiple (as in 20-30) gold reaper extractions

The N7 Eagle isn't so bad. It is just not a Pistol but really an SMG with decent DPS and the ability to equip a Piercing Mod. The fire rate good however be a bit higher. The Piercing Mode is however no longer a unique feature thanks to the new SMG High-Velocity Barrel weapon mod.

[Credit2team]

I empathize with you, just got the EAGLE IV

[TenmaTaro]

The RNG gods refuse to give me the one N7 promotional I want.

[Tipsyfresh]

Elexis wrote...

Well 5 more operations and you'll never see it again in your pack. That is good thing I guess.

I like your thinking,  I was saying that as well

Modifié par Tipsyfresh, 18 juillet 2012 - 11:17 .

[Talhydras]

Eagle VII here. I just...

I just want a Hurricane. Please. Eventually?

[Rifneno]

Talhydras wrote...

Eagle VII here. I just...

I just want a Hurricane. Please. Eventually?

Seven?!  We should build monuments to your suffering!  

[gimmethegepgun]

Talhydras wrote...

Eagle VII here. I just...

I just want a Hurricane. Please. Eventually?

But... but but but...
Your Eagle VII ALMOST as good as your Tempest X!

Modifié par gimmethegepgun, 18 juillet 2012 - 11:16 .

[UserUnknown85]

Now I am confused. The hurricane shoots 2 bullets at once, right?

But both of them deal damage? Shouldn't it be :

Hurricane I 102.5x40 = 4100
Hurricane X 128.1x40 = 5124

level I DPS 1.025
600rpm is 10 shots per second, that's 10 times 102.5 or 10 bullets... The weapon's RoF takes into account the actual capacity, which is 40, doesn't it?

Modifié par UserUnknown85, 18 juillet 2012 - 11:19 .

[Uberschveinen]

Is there something magical about the internet and the way it turns every bell-curve into a binary function?

There is a place between 'the best' and 'the worst'. There are actually many places between these two points. In fact, almost every single thing that is relevant to any person will be found in a place between these two points.

The Eagle is pretty good. Very light, decent fire rate, functional damage. It's just that for each use of the Eagle, there is another option that is usually better for that specific role. Even this doesn't make it bad, it just makes other things better. There's also the problem that because of the Eagle's rarity, by the time you get it you also usually have many of these other weapons. But that still doesn't make it bad. It just makes it not as good as those very good options. There's also the problem that the space it takes up could have been one of two very good guns. But that STILL doesn't make the Eagle bad. The RNG does not 'owe' you a good gun. And even though you could have got a Crusader, which actually is a quite bad gun, that doesn't make the Eagle good.

The only thing that makes the Eagle bad is the sense of entitlement that you have; the expectation that you have EARNED the best option, and that any option you get that is not so is 'ripping you off'. The very fact that people still get angry that any given gun compares unfavourably to the Carnifex in DPS-over-weight comparisons is a stark highlight of this. People actually get upset that there are guns that are not objectively better than the most curve-pushingly powerful gun in the game; that has been at the bleeding edge of what is acceptably powerful. That's just a bit sad.

[Rifneno]

Uberschveinen wrote...

Is there something magical about the internet and the way it turns every bell-curve into a binary function?

There is a place between 'the best' and 'the worst'. There are actually many places between these two points. In fact, almost every single thing that is relevant to any person will be found in a place between these two points.

The Eagle is pretty good. Very light, decent fire rate, functional damage. It's just that for each use of the Eagle, there is another option that is usually better for that specific role. Even this doesn't make it bad, it just makes other things better. There's also the problem that because of the Eagle's rarity, by the time you get it you also usually have many of these other weapons. But that still doesn't make it bad. It just makes it not as good as those very good options. There's also the problem that the space it takes up could have been one of two very good guns. But that STILL doesn't make the Eagle bad. The RNG does not 'owe' you a good gun. And even though you could have got a Crusader, which actually is a quite bad gun, that doesn't make the Eagle good.

The only thing that makes the Eagle bad is the sense of entitlement that you have; the expectation that you have EARNED the best option, and that any option you get that is not so is 'ripping you off'. The very fact that people still get angry that any given gun compares unfavourably to the Carnifex in DPS-over-weight comparisons is a stark highlight of this. People actually get upset that there are guns that are not objectively better than the most curve-pushingly powerful gun in the game; that has been at the bleeding edge of what is acceptably powerful. That's just a bit sad.

Decent lecture.  Transparent as half the female clothes in Skyrim mods though.  Moreso when one takes a quick look at your manifest and notices the lack of an eagle.

So... why don't people enjoy it when they're completely at the mercy of the RNG between getting one of the best weapons in the game and one that most decent players only use if they're looking for a challenge, even when you only get two chances (or less!) a month?  Gee, that sure is a mystery!

I've said it before, I'll say it again.  We really need an eye roll smiley.

[Uberschveinen]

I've played the Eagle using a friend's account. In the early days of the game we'd swap, because it meant less waiting at the mercy of the RNG to experience the weapons.

You've also missed the point entirely. People are consistently angry at not getting the best possible outcome. That is exactly what a sense of undue entitlement is.

[Rifneno]

So I got an electric bill in the mail today. I called the company and told them from now on, we're going to roll dice to decide how much I pay them. Some months they'll get thousands, some months they'll get five bucks and some used gum. Can you believe they hung up on me?! The nerve! Why doesn't everyone love random payment?! Random is the greatest thing ever!

[Triceratops]

I would have taken an Eagle IV over the Crusader II I got today but really, can I have one of the good weapons next time instead of one of these two clunkers? I don't care which one.

[Rifneno]

Uberschveinen wrote...

I've played the Eagle using a friend's account. In the early days of the game we'd swap, because it meant less waiting at the mercy of the RNG to experience the weapons.

You've also missed the point entirely. People are consistently angry at not getting the best possible outcome. That is exactly what a sense of undue entitlement is.

No they're not.  Very few people are angry at never getting the best outcome.  There's a few people going "stupid valiant III, I want a hurricane IV!" or visa versa but it's few and far between.  Most people complaining have been getting the worst option (which most consider the eagle, some consider the crusader) half the time or more.  And considering how few and far between these events are, and how awesome the hurricane and valiant are, it's extremely irritating, disheartening, ect.

It would be one thing if they gave us 4 options and they were all relatively on par but had different roles.  But they're not.  Two are great, two suck.  Being put completely at the mercy of the RNG sucks, plain and simple.

[MystEU]

Well, at least I didn't get my Eagle II until I got one of everything else. RNG has been nice to me.

[gimmethegepgun]

UserUnknown85 wrote...

Now I am confused. The hurricane shoots 2 bullets at once, right?

But both of them deal damage? Shouldn't it be :

Hurricane I 102.5x40 = 4100
Hurricane X 128.1x40 = 5124

level I DPS 1.025
600rpm is 10 shots per second, that's 10 times 102.5 or 10 bullets... The weapon's RoF takes into account the actual capacity, which is 40, doesn't it?

Nope.
It fires 1 bullet that takes 2 ammo, which is why its damage is so high.
Reason why that makes it so ridiculous though is that since the "2 bullets" it fires at once is 1 damage packet, meaning it's actually good against armor.

[mkenney29]

My last 5 com packs have had an eagle. I fully expect to get rank 6 tonight. Random my ass.