258 réponses à ce sujet

[Justin2k]

Thread after thread after thread about the ending, the extended cut and everything else.  What if the indoctination theory was true, what if they really mean this, what if this is the real ending.

It's all rubbish.  You have hope and faith in Bioware I get it.  But the obvious plain truth is that Starchild was a joke, Bioware realised it was a joke but rather than rewrite it, they didn't want to offend their writing staff so they "expanded" on it.

It's just poor writing, nothing more or nothing less.  A five year old child could have finished the story better.  Defeat the reapers, save the galaxy.  There, done.

There is no clever hidden underlining meaning, there is no theory.  It was just a stupid contrived ending and the writers should have their work reviewed in future before releasing it to the public.  Just imagine if Luke Skywalker had walked in to face the Emperor and Darth Vader only to be faced with a little child telling him that the empire exists because people rebel or something.  Lucas would never had found work again.

[Grumpy-Mcfart]

seconded

[DistantUtopia]

Justin2k wrote...
There is no clever hidden underlining meaning, there is no theory.  It was just a stupid contrived ending and the writers should have their work reviewed in future before releasing it to the public.  Just imagine if Luke Skywalker had walked in to face the Emperor and Darth Vader only to be faced with a little child telling him that the empire exists because people rebel or something.  Lucas would never had found work again.

I'm imagining it now. Thanks for the laugh

[BigGuy28]

I agree with you but there are way too many Bioware fanboys that can not accept that Bioware makes anything other than pure awesome. I used to be a proud Bioware fanboy, but after DA2 and ME3 that is no longer true.

[Joben-Dallas]

I think I'll make my own my up.

[Justin2k]

You are free to believe whatever you believe, but I think if they had some great plan, they would have put it in the extended cut. Which they never should have had to do because they should have got it right first time.

All I can think of is they've done this as a way to start the next triology. Regardless it was a mistake. You do not need to sacrifice the first triology to make the second. Especially a space triology, just zap forward some light years.

They didn't need to have a happy ending. The reapers could have won. Shepard could have got injured/killed and you could have played as Ash/Kaiden ala Red Dead Redemption. There were plenty of ways to write it, but this was just plain silly.

Frodo throws the ring in the volcano.
Luke defeats the emperor.
Shepard meets a little child that tells him nothing he did or does matters.

Bad writing.

[sporeian]

We could pretend its art....

[MB957]

is this a disinformation thread??? lol!!

maybe the real ending was written at area 51??!!??

its difficult to root out conspiracy theories! they are just so much fun!!

Vader: Luukkkee...what do you think is behind door nummbberr onnnee...?...

Luke: shrug

Vader: cmonnn..lluuukke...what about door twooo...

Luke: shrug

Yoda: these choices, like I do not. meaning hidden...everywhere it is...

[kyban]

I would still like to believe that the original writer, Drew, would have made the difference. Yes, I know that the dark energy plot looks silly. But i feel that he could have woven it into something much better, something that could have at least made SENSE. wouldn't you guys rather accept a sensible ending?

[KingWrex]

Agreed, but it's not even the starkid the whole premise of the Crucible really is absurd.

[Justin2k]

Luke : Who are you?
Starchild : I am the Catalyst
Luke : Can you stop the war? And where is the Emperor and my dad?
Starchild : The Empire is my solution. People rebel. So I made the empire to crush the rebellion. And then people will start to rebel again. And the Empire will crush them.
Luke : I came here to fight the Emperor.
Starchild : You can't. But you can kill him and yourself and all the wookies. Or you can control him, but this will kill all the ewoks. Or you can join with him and be half jedi half sith, killing both the wookies and Ewoks?
Luke : Can't I just fight him
Starchild : No. He is my solution.

[v TricKy v]

Justin2k wrote...

Thread after thread after thread about the ending, the extended cut and everything else.  What if the indoctination theory was true, what if they really mean this, what if this is the real ending.

It's all rubbish.  You have hope and faith in Bioware I get it.  But the obvious plain truth is that Starchild was a joke, Bioware realised it was a joke but rather than rewrite it, they didn't want to offend their writing staff so they "expanded" on it.

It's just poor writing, nothing more or nothing less.  A five year old child could have finished the story better.  Defeat the reapers, save the galaxy.  There, done.

There is no clever hidden underlining meaning, there is no theory.  It was just a stupid contrived ending and the writers should have their work reviewed in future before releasing it to the public.  Just imagine if Luke Skywalker had walked in to face the Emperor and Darth Vader only to be faced with a little child telling him that the empire exists because people rebel or something.  Lucas would never had found work again.

Yep Im suprised about how many people keep arguing about this or that when it´s clear that it´s bad writing and nothing else.
You have to face the truth at some point.

Also +1 for your Avatar

[Mazebook]

I thought it was written pretty good...

maybe people should stop to pretending it was badly written and just admit that either they simply did not understood the ending or they did not like the direction the ending took.

[WarGriffin]

How Cerberus, Tim and Leng were handled
How most of the side characters were handled
How the "War" -i have dismissed that claim- was handled
and how many outright contradictions there are trying to shoe horn in a faux deep meaning into the series cause they wanted to be remembered -they'll get remembered alright-

[Humakt83]

You likely also think that "little child with hoodie" is Catalyst's true form?

Besides: Mass Effect >>>>>>> Star Wars.

[Justin2k]

maaaze wrote...

I thought it was written pretty good...

maybe people should stop to pretending it was badly written and just admit that either they simply did not understood the ending or they did not like the direction the ending took.

I think you are deluding yourself.  I am a literature major.  I understood the ending just fine.

Shepard finds out that the protheans planned a super weapon.  He/She didn't have a clue what it did but decided to spend valuable time and resources on building it anyway.  Shepard then goes to the Citadel to find the Catalyst, to find out the heart of the citadel is some boy Shepard saw get killed earlier on. 

Shepard asks boy how to defeat the reapers.  He gives Shepard several choices, none of which are going to satisfy the majority of the millions of fans of the series.  Most of which are trivial.

If you like it, thats fine, but people understand it just fine.  It's just not a great ending to a triology.  It also abandons many themes that have been set in the previous installments such as the races struggling to get on, the human race believing they are superior etc.  They finally all unite and lose? 

You can like what you like, but the ending still to this day has many plotholes and seems poorly thought out.  It is badly written from a literary standpoint.  You liking it does not make it otherwise.

[Justin2k]

Humakt83 wrote...

You likely also think that "little child with hoodie" is Catalyst's true form?

Besides: Mass Effect >>>>>>> Star Wars.

I can see the implication that the child is not the catalysts true form.  It still doesn't make the plot better.   Perhaps if we had seen it in a more interesting sci-fi form than the starchild, it would have been more impressive and satisfying, but it still would have been a generic deus ex machina ending.

Mass Effect is better than star wars but the original star wars triology had a far more satisfying conclusion for it's fans.

Modifié par Justin2k, 18 juillet 2012 - 11:12 .

[DMWW]

Justin2k wrote...
I think you are deluding yourself.  I am a literature major.  I understood the ending just fine.

And as a literature major, you have no doubt learned that
(i) texts tend to be susceptible to multiple interpretations, and debates about the "right" interpretation are fairly sterile;
(ii) "is this good?" is not the kind of question that literary analysis is really suited to.

[blueumi]

not sure what to think it's just never happend to bioware before never they write better then most other games
even dragon age 2 was well written and made sense even if it disapointed me to no end
I don't get how they could fail in that area
there has to be a reason other then bad writing

[nhsknudsen]

blueumi wrote...

not sure what to think it's just never happend to bioware before never they write better then most other games
even dragon age 2 was well written and made sense even if it disapointed me to no end
I don't get how they could fail in that area
there has to be a reason other then bad writing

Its called "EA" - Short development cycles to create more games/profit to satisfy investors, then when consumers figure out that the once proud studio now produces crap, the studio gets shut down... It's almost like a cycle that repeats itself based on the logic that screwing your consumers over is a sound business strategy.

Modifié par nhsknudsen, 18 juillet 2012 - 11:26 .

[Mazebook]

Justin2k wrote...

maaaze wrote...

I thought it was written pretty good...

maybe people should stop to pretending it was badly written and just admit that either they simply did not understood the ending or they did not like the direction the ending took.

I think you are deluding yourself.  I am a literature major.  I understood the ending just fine.

Shepard finds out that the protheans planned a super weapon.  He/She didn't have a clue what it did but decided to spend valuable time and resources on building it anyway.  Shepard then goes to the Citadel to find the Catalyst, to find out the heart of the citadel is some boy Shepard saw get killed earlier on. 

Shepard asks boy how to defeat the reapers.  He gives Shepard several choices, none of which are going to satisfy the majority of the millions of fans of the series.  Most of which are trivial.

If you like it, thats fine, but people understand it just fine.  It's just not a great ending to a triology.  It also abandons many themes that have been set in the previous installments such as the races struggling to get on, the human race believing they are superior etc.  They finally all unite and lose? 

You can like what you like, but the ending still to this day has many plotholes and seems poorly thought out.  It is badly written from a literary standpoint.  You liking it does not make it otherwise.

I think you are deluding yourself. 

I think you are deluding yourself because you don´t like the ending and thats all there is to it.

I am a literature major. 

and?

 I understood the ending just fine. 

Well you OP suggestes otherwise...

Shepard finds out that the protheans planned a super weapon.  He/She didn't have a clue what it did but decided to spend valuable time and resources on building it anyway.   

"It is not much of a plan ...but it is the only thing we got."

Shepard then goes to the Citadel to find the Catalyst, to find out the heart of the citadel is some boy Shepard saw get killed earlier on.  

It is only a representation of the catalyst...he is not actually the boy....He manifests itself through the memorys of Shepard.

Shepard asks boy how to defeat the reapers.  He gives Shepard several choices, none of which are going to satisfy the majority of the millions of fans of the series.  Most of which are trivial.

The only thing the Catalyst does is to explain the motivations of the reapers and what the crucible does.
He does not give him the choice...he gives him the context.

It's just not a great ending to a triology.  It also abandons many themes that have been set in the previous installments such as the races struggling to get on, the human race believing they are superior etc.  They finally all unite and lose?   

The organics vs. synthetics theme was present throught the series...it began with the very first death in the series.
futhermore the motivations of the antagonist have nothing to do with the themes of the series.
The actions of the protoganist do...it was always about sacrifice and the understanding of what life is, among other things.

They finally all unite and lose?  

They are ending a cycle which was in place for millions of years...if thats not a victory than what is?

You can like what you like, but the ending still to this day has many plotholes and seems poorly thought out.  It is badly written from a literary standpoint.  You liking it does not make it otherwise 

What most claim as plotholes are created through baseless assumptions ... It is not hard to find explonations for everything that is not spelled out... the narritve in end holds strong.

The ending lets you reflect on important questions : what is life? do the ends justify the means ? how can good intentions go bad ?...should there be a higher power (control)...what makes life unique (synthesis)...ect.

exploring these questions is what makes the ending meaningful and in my mind equals good.

EDIT: like i said...if you don´t like the direction it took...fine...but just saying it is badly written...I have to disagree strongly...

Modifié par maaaze, 18 juillet 2012 - 11:31 .

[Justin2k]

DMWW wrote...

Justin2k wrote...
I think you are deluding yourself.  I am a literature major.  I understood the ending just fine.

And as a literature major, you have no doubt learned that
(i) texts tend to be susceptible to multiple interpretations, and debates about the "right" interpretation are fairly sterile;
(ii) "is this good?" is not the kind of question that literary analysis is really suited to.

I agree.  As stated before, anyone is free to form their own opinion.

While "is this good?" on an opinion basis is not a great question, "is this good?" on a literary basis is easily proven.  The fact there are plotholes, that fans have to invent and make up things that are not present in the plot so that it makes sense or satisfies them tells us that it is badly written. 

The fanboys do not help.  By defending writing that is evidently sub-par in many ways (the ending being only one of those ways), all you do is encourage such writing to continue.  If you loved Mass Effect 2, the attitude shouldn't be "well i'll forgive Bioware for this because i loved Mass Effect 2" it should be "Why is this nowhere nearly as good as Mass Effect 2?"  If they feel they can get away with sub par, and by all means there was plenty of sub par about ME3 from gameplay elements to story elements, then sub par is what you will get.

The fact the average parts aremixed with brilliance shouldn't make a difference.  In fact we know they're capable of coming up with better.  You shouldn't defend what comes down to slack writing.

[ld1449]

blueumi wrote...

not sure what to think it's just never happend to bioware before never they write better then most other games
even dragon age 2 was well written and made sense even if it disapointed me to no end
I don't get how they could fail in that area
there has to be a reason other then bad writing

Correction. Its never happened to Bioware's REAL writers.

But we have Casey's friend Mac walters as lead writer. Mac Walters. Whos never published anything. And who's never done anything outside of Bioware save for a comic book strip or two. His only other project outside of Mass Effect was Jade Empire, and his role there was minimal.

Casey and Mac both love Deus Ex and tried to shoe horn its ending in here because they thought it was kewlz. Which is why it fits about as well as a square figure in a triangle shaped hole.

[ld1449]

Justin2k wrote...

I agree.  As stated before, anyone is free to form their own opinion.

While "is this good?" on an opinion basis is not a great question, "is this good?" on a literary basis is easily proven.  The fact there are plotholes, that fans have to invent and make up things that are not present in the plot so that it makes sense or satisfies them tells us that it is badly written. 

The fanboys do not help.  By defending writing that is evidently sub-par in many ways (the ending being only one of those ways), all you do is encourage such writing to continue.  If you loved Mass Effect 2, the attitude shouldn't be "well i'll forgive Bioware for this because i loved Mass Effect 2" it should be "Why is this nowhere nearly as good as Mass Effect 2?"  If they feel they can get away with sub par, and by all means there was plenty of sub par about ME3 from gameplay elements to story elements, then sub par is what you will get.

The fact the average parts aremixed with brilliance shouldn't make a difference.  In fact we know they're capable of coming up with better.  You shouldn't defend what comes down to slack writing.

Agreed.

[Justin2k]

maaaze wrote...

-snip-

Firstly good writing doesn't require you to ask questions and make up your own answers.  Good writing gives you the answers to all the important questions.

Secondly, whether you like it or not, you cannot tell me that this ending resonated with the millions of fans of the series.  So many people were disappointed.  And that in itself makes it bad as the first rule of writing is to connect with your target audience.  They weren't writing Mass Effect for their own benefit, they were writing it to sell to customers.

You seem to believe you are superior or smarter than everyone else because you "got" the ending.  The truth is you invented stuff that wasn't present in the text so that it made sense to you. 

Modifié par Justin2k, 18 juillet 2012 - 11:35 .