258 réponses à ce sujet

[Thaa_solon]

"Bad writing viable possibility, troll factor useful if controlled"

[GreyLycanTrope]

maaaze wrote...

like i said..."or did not like the direction it was going"...which makes the ending not to your liking...but not badly written...

The flip side of this is some didn't like the direction it was going because it was bad writing. That's my grip with it anyway. The themes of synthetics/organic conflict and sacrafice were themes in the other two games but they weren't the main themes. Even for protions of ME3 they weren't always prevalent, to try and make them such because the writer really wanted to push a bittersweet ending on the audience as the only possibility outcome is bad writing. It disregards the audiences participation up to that point, and abandons every other theme explored in the series.

[string3r]

To be honest I don't know what to think anymore.

[crimzontearz]

Justin2k wrote...

Lucas would never had found work again.

this is what I hope happens to those directly responsible for this ****

[Trebor1969]

wantedman dan wrote...

kyban wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

I agree.  As stated before, anyone is free to form their own opinion.

While "is this good?" on an opinion basis is not a great question, "is this good?" on a literary basis is easily proven.  The fact there are plotholes, that fans have to invent and make up things that are not present in the plot so that it makes sense or satisfies them tells us that it is badly written. 

The fanboys do not help.  By defending writing that is evidently sub-par in many ways (the ending being only one of those ways), all you do is encourage such writing to continue.  If you loved Mass Effect 2, the attitude shouldn't be "well i'll forgive Bioware for this because i loved Mass Effect 2" it should be "Why is this nowhere nearly as good as Mass Effect 2?"  If they feel they can get away with sub par, and by all means there was plenty of sub par about ME3 from gameplay elements to story elements, then sub par is what you will get.

The fact the average parts aremixed with brilliance shouldn't make a difference.  In fact we know they're capable of coming up with better.  You shouldn't defend what comes down to slack writing.

Agreed.

Seconded.

Thirded.

Perfectly stated.

+1 Fourth !

[comrade gando]

bad writing is an understatement. what those jokers did in the span of 20 minutes just invalidated your entire journey in one fell swoop. bad writing? Of course, it's as if they did this on purpose just to bespoke everyone in to the same ****ty 3 endings (which they said they wouldn't do) that make no ****ing sense and next thing I know that stupid ass das malefitz is playing and credits are rolling.

[comrade gando]

Trebor1969 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

kyban wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

I agree.  As stated before, anyone is free to form their own opinion.

While "is this good?" on an opinion basis is not a great question, "is this good?" on a literary basis is easily proven.  The fact there are plotholes, that fans have to invent and make up things that are not present in the plot so that it makes sense or satisfies them tells us that it is badly written. 

The fanboys do not help.  By defending writing that is evidently sub-par in many ways (the ending being only one of those ways), all you do is encourage such writing to continue.  If you loved Mass Effect 2, the attitude shouldn't be "well i'll forgive Bioware for this because i loved Mass Effect 2" it should be "Why is this nowhere nearly as good as Mass Effect 2?"  If they feel they can get away with sub par, and by all means there was plenty of sub par about ME3 from gameplay elements to story elements, then sub par is what you will get.

The fact the average parts aremixed with brilliance shouldn't make a difference.  In fact we know they're capable of coming up with better.  You shouldn't defend what comes down to slack writing.

Agreed.

Seconded.

Thirded.

Perfectly stated.

+1 Fourth !

you tell em justin

[CoolioThane]

Looking at it from a point of view if Bioware were really paying attention to the threads:

"Hmm, these people seem to really dislike the current endings and are calling our writers awful writers..."

"Oooh, these Indoctrination people, they believe in us and think we're doing something awesome. What positive fans"

"Hmm, if we had to choose one way to go with the game, should we go with a) continue and allow the negative Nancy's to keep badmouthing us and all of the positive fans, or prove we always were doing something awesome, and reward those who kept faith and make those who badmouth us look like morons."

That's what I would do lol

[SpamBot2000]

To answer the OP, I certainly hope so. 

That would move us to the more interesting question of why it was such bad writing. Not as in "What aspects of it make it bad?", rather "Why on Earth did they write this?"  Because the awesome badness on display has been adequately itemized.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 19 juillet 2012 - 12:31 .

[FabricatedWookie]

yeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhh =[

[Adanu]

Oxspit wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Oxspit wrote...

Adanu wrote...

If you think it was poor writing, that's fine.

Just don't force me to think so too, because I don't think so.

You know, you could just not read this thread. That way no-one could even be construed as trying to persuade you, let alone force you, which is a ridiculous thing to say either way.

Like you 'bad writing' types keep out of threads that support the endings and don't make troll bait threads asking why only to jump down our throats?

No-one should keep out of any threads they disagree with.

It's just that no-one's forcing you to think anything and if you really believe they are you *can* just stay away. Really just pointing that out.

<_<

So basically, stay out of your circle jerk hate threads while you people invade supporter threads and tell us how stupid we are?

Yeah, I don't think so. You and your kind can go to hell. Being 'polite' about your shooing away doesn't make it any better.

[BDelacroix]

I don't know, Mass Effect has its star kid and Star Wars has its primitive ewoks defeating a technologically advanced and well trained empirial army.

At some point the hookah smoke gets to all of these writers I guess.

[flanny]

WarGriffin wrote...

How Cerberus, Tim and Leng were handled
How most of the side characters were handled
How the "War" -i have dismissed that claim- was handled
and how many outright contradictions there are trying to shoe horn in a faux deep meaning into the series cause they wanted to be remembered -they'll get remembered alright-

agreed on all points

[FabricatedWookie]

Adanu wrote...

<_<

So basically, stay out of your circle jerk hate threads while you people invade supporter threads and tell us how stupid we are?

Yeah, I don't think so. You and your kind can go to hell. Being 'polite' about your shooing away doesn't make it any better.

Too invested.

Modifié par FabricatedWookie, 19 juillet 2012 - 01:16 .

[Shaigunjoe]

Not sure what the big deal is, I thought the bad writing was a reference to Kilgore Trout:

"His prose was frightful. Only his ideas were good"

[satunnainen]

I thought that the real problem is that no-one in the internet has figured out how to stop complaining once they have started it.

[Marxist Knight]

And to those who keep contriving and inventing new explanations and reasons for the thematic inconsistencies and numerous plotholes..

As the OP said, I get that you have faith in BioWare, but unfortunately, they have shown that they are capable of appalling judgement. Watch the original endings now after the Extended Cut. They're even more of a joke than I remembered them. How could they POSSIBLY think that it was worthy not just of the last game, but the entire trilogy? Three virtually identical cinematic outcomes, no exposition of any of our choices or relationships over the three games, all wrapped up in 5 minutes and a, quite frankly, shameful plea to buy more stuff from them.

Don't get me wrong, I still love these games, and the narrative up until the Starchild was unmatched (although it was admittedly sub-par in some areas of ME3). But for me, by far the best things about these games were the story, the characters and the choices, rather than the FPS gameplay. And these were ruined in the last 5 minutes of a 90 hour+ trilogy.

Whoever wrote the endings should feel weirdly honoured that they managed to ruin one of the best game franchises ever in 5 minutes. That's no easy feat.

[ld1449]

CoolioThane wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

But all of these "new" ideas always take inspiration from somewhere, most of them being other forms of art.

I will agree with that but add it's pretty redudant as that has been the case for literally about two thousand years now.

Everything is inspired by something. Even this message I am posting now is inspired from messages I've seen posted.

I think that was what the other guy was trying to say, that ME3 was inspired by Deus Ex, it did not steal.

There's a very blurry line between inspiration and rip off.

Play Deus Ex (the first one not the new Prequel just incase) The endings are EXACTLY the same in premise and the Dynamic of the DIALOGUE is the same.

The only difference is Deus Ex's ending fit with their lore. Here this bull**** does not.

[Ice Eyes]

 Poor writing = Terminator Salvation (2009 film)......Wonderful writing = Solaris (1961 novel)
Mass Effect 3 can be found on this scale between the above two milestones... 

Modifié par Ice Eyes, 19 juillet 2012 - 01:35 .

[CoolioThane]

ld1449 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

But all of these "new" ideas always take inspiration from somewhere, most of them being other forms of art.

I will agree with that but add it's pretty redudant as that has been the case for literally about two thousand years now.

Everything is inspired by something. Even this message I am posting now is inspired from messages I've seen posted.

I think that was what the other guy was trying to say, that ME3 was inspired by Deus Ex, it did not steal.

There's a very blurry line between inspiration and rip off.

Play Deus Ex (the first one not the new Prequel just incase) The endings are EXACTLY the same in premise and the Dynamic of the DIALOGUE is the same.

The only difference is Deus Ex's ending fit with their lore. Here this bull**** does not.

That's your opinion, but I respectfully disagree 

[fchopin]

There is nothing wrong with the writing in ME3, the only problem is the plot holes which some could have been explained if they had more time.

[Oxspit]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

To answer the OP, I certainly hope so. 

That would move us to the more interesting question of why it was such bad writing. Not as in "What aspects of it make it bad?", rather "Why on Earth did they write this?"  Because the awesome badness on display has been adequately itemized.

Yeah... the kind of weird thing is that they started foreshadowing the synthetic vs organic thing to some degree in ME1, but the stuff you find in the Geth base actually makes it look like a red herring even there (right up until that point I really could have seen them having an inevitable synthetics vs organics being the underlying theme, but at this point it looked more like misdirection)... then in ME2 they actively moved you away from that with Legion and towards heavily foreshadowing the whole dark energy thing (although, either way their cardinal sin was in not actually advancing the plot, in the sense of how Shep is actually going to fight/oppose the reapers at all in ME2)....

So, I don't really know if it's fair to say they didn't really know what to do with the trilogy from the start, or if they just decided that the dark energy ending was just necessarily too bleak. I personally like it (dark energy) as the only device I've seen that can really make the reapers work as both terrifying space cthulus and submitting in a unified way to the whole hibernte, slaughter, erase routine. But the ending would have been very bleak. I can understand, or at least see how it might become a concern just how well such an ending would be received/would sell.

Added to that it seems to me that the making each game work as a stand-alone game loomed a little too large. Finding the crucible on Mars was absurd (hell, the crucible itself was absurd, too), for instance, but how well would a new audience accept a jaunt to Ilos instead, a place they've never heard of, or even better being told about a crucible-type thing that was discovered in a previous game instead

I mean, ultimately..... It really seems to me that this is down to it being a little from column 'the writers just weren't good enough', and a little from column 'this was written by comitte, and a comitte with entirely the wrong priorities'.

And Christ do I find it disappointing. ME1 was a really good premiss for a game and ME2 & ME3 still had game-play I loved and at least some degree of character interaction and back-ground which was really great, too.

Only dear god did they ****** the plot. Not just the ending. That's just the point where it became really hard not to notice the poor writing.

[ld1449]

Oxspit wrote...

-Snip-

See, I didn't MIND that they didn't advance the plot of ME2 because alot of writers for games and movies and such tend to fall into a trap of trying to one up the first game/movie immediately with the second installment. Which means the second installment is good, but by the time they get to the third they poured so much into the second that it feels alot more lack luster.

I thought that they didn't advance the plot much in ME2 in order to REALLY throw it all home in ME3. Now we find out that in reality they had no real clue what they were doing the entire time.<_<

Most GOOD trilogies have part one as the opening, part two as the simmering pot and part three where everything comes out and the writer(s) really cut loose.

Here they did good good and then just flailed their arms wildly like chicken with their heads cut off with Mac as the lead writer...

Thank god he's got so many projects under his belt to carry him through this backlash onto his next job.

Oh wait...

[Headcount]

When I played ME2 and as the Normandy flees the exploding Collector base, I thought, "Yeah! I did it but I lost characters X and Y in doing do so but I'll do better in my next playthrough."

After watching the red explosion at the end of ME3, I only thought. "I must of screwed up somewhere. Was my EMS too low? Did miss a critical step? This can't be the right ending! Lets backup and try control. WTF!!!"

[ld1449]

CoolioThane wrote...

That's your opinion, but I respectfully disagree 

That's fine but at least tell me you've played Deus Ex and are not just automatically going off the premise that the statement wrong "just because" as people oft seem to do when Deus Ex is brought up.