258 réponses à ce sujet

[Kamfrenchie]

maaaze wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

maaaze wrote...

like i said..."or did not like the direction it was going"...which makes the ending not to your liking...but not badly written...

The flip side of this is some didn't like the direction it was going because it was bad writing. That's my grip with it anyway. The themes of synthetics/organic conflict and sacrafice were themes in the other two games but they weren't the main themes. Even for protions of ME3 they weren't always prevalent, to try and make them such because the writer really wanted to push a bittersweet ending on the audience as the only possibility outcome is bad writing. It disregards the audiences participation up to that point, and abandons every other theme explored in the series.

So you would like the Catalyst in concept if it were better written or written in a way that you liked or established earlier on in the series ?

I thought the bittersweet came quite natural...it is established throughout the game that you can´t save them all and sacrifices have to be made.

there i a difference between soldiers bing killed by the weapons of the enemy, and arbitrarly forcing shepard to genocide a specie for no good reason.

Freespace 1 and 2 were bittersweet, especially if you die in the 2nd. They were still satisfying endings.

[Mazebook]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

maaaze wrote...

like i said..."or did not like the direction it was going"...which makes the ending not to your liking...but not badly written...

The flip side of this is some didn't like the direction it was going because it was bad writing. That's my grip with it anyway. The themes of synthetics/organic conflict and sacrafice were themes in the other two games but they weren't the main themes. Even for protions of ME3 they weren't always prevalent, to try and make them such because the writer really wanted to push a bittersweet ending on the audience as the only possibility outcome is bad writing. It disregards the audiences participation up to that point, and abandons every other theme explored in the series.

So you would like the Catalyst in concept if it were better written or written in a way that you liked or established earlier on in the series ?

I thought the bittersweet came quite natural...it is established throughout the game that you can´t save them all and sacrifices have to be made.

there i a difference between soldiers bing killed by the weapons of the enemy, and arbitrarly forcing shepard to genocide a specie for no good reason.

Freespace 1 and 2 were bittersweet, especially if you die in the 2nd. They were still satisfying endings.

he is not forced to do that...he can cease control and function as the catalyst himself...

Does it boil down to you that you want a Victory with no drawbacks?

[ld1449]

maaaze wrote...


he is not forced to do that...he can cease control and function as the catalyst himself...

Does it boil down to you that you want a Victory with no drawbacks?

It comes down to these endings contradicting eachother to the 10th degree.

Synthesis invalidates destroy (And is just plain stupid.

Destroy Invalidates Control

There is no clear reason why the crucible can do these three specific functions, each so distinct to one another save for "The author made it this way, deal."

[CronoDragoon]

[quote]XqctaX wrote...

some things are done well yes. but over all the story isnt that great.
what about the other LI's, those that got pretty much nothing.[/quote]

You mean the other LI that didn't exist in ME1 and only got 1-2 romance scenes in ME2? The only people who can complain or Thane and Jacob romancers

[quote]rannoch and tuchanka were good. but what about the rest not so great.[/quote]

Again I disagree. Sur'Kesh was great (Wrex dialogue, Liara/Garrus banter, Mordin, Eve) and I liked what failing at Thessia did for the story. Badly written missions were the extreme minority.

[quote]characters so out of character its just horrible[/quote]

Like who?

[quote]and the main story arc isnt close to ME1[/quote]

Me1's story is ridiculous as well. You fight telepathic plants and a choir of insects for two of the major story arcs. It wasn't until Virmire that **** got real.

[quote]find crusible plan, get assets to build it, build it, fire it, end game.[/quote]

You can generalize any story enough to boil it down to one sentence. That doesn't show anything.

[quote]You might think its better writing in me3 but that isnt the case in the ending whitch is what we are talking about.
and its not the case with the rest of the game either. some part stick out becouse they are good.
but the game is mostly mediocre at best when looking at the writing skill.[/quote]
Nope. The writing in the majority of the game is great, particularly the character writing. The original endings had terrible writing, I agree, and that was what the thread was about, but you yourself brought in the "overall ME3 had terrible writing" statement to which I objected.



[/quote]

[Femlob]

Adanu wrote...

If you think it was poor writing, that's fine.

Just don't force me to think so too, because I don't think so.

This kind of shit just drives me up the wall.

Those who complain don't think that the writing is bad. They know for a fact that the writing is bad. Objectively, quantifiably bad. This is not a matter of opinion; we are right, and you are wrong. It's as simple as that. Those who argue against this fact effectively state that professional education and a couple thousand years worth of literary works and criticism are less valid than their asinine assumptions. Seriously, who the f*ck do these people think they are?

What is a matter of opinion is whether this objectively, quantifiably bad writing offers enough value to be enjoyable in spite of its objective failings. You want to enjoy this shitty excuse for a story? Go right ahead and have fun. Just do not ever, ever, think that it's objectively, quantifiably good - because it isn't.

Modifié par Femlob, 19 juillet 2012 - 06:12 .

[ld1449]

Femlob wrote...

Adanu wrote...

If you think it was poor writing, that's fine.

Just don't force me to think so too, because I don't think so.

This kind of shit just drives me up the wall.

Those who complain don't think that the writing is bad. They know for a fact that the writing is bad. Objectively, quantifiably bad. This is not a matter of opinion; we are right, and you are wrong. It's as simple as that. Those who argue against this fact effectively state that professional education and a couple thousand years worth of literary works and criticism are less valid than their asinine assumptions. Seriously, who the f*ck do these people think they are?

What is a matter of opinion is whether this objectively, quantifiably bad writing offers enough value to be enjoyable in spite of its objective failings. You want to enjoy this shitty excuse for a story? Go right ahead and have fun. Just do not ever, ever, think that it's objectively, quantifiably good - because it isn't.

^^

[Kamfrenchie]

maaaze wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

maaaze wrote...

like i said..."or did not like the direction it was going"...which makes the ending not to your liking...but not badly written...

The flip side of this is some didn't like the direction it was going because it was bad writing. That's my grip with it anyway. The themes of synthetics/organic conflict and sacrafice were themes in the other two games but they weren't the main themes. Even for protions of ME3 they weren't always prevalent, to try and make them such because the writer really wanted to push a bittersweet ending on the audience as the only possibility outcome is bad writing. It disregards the audiences participation up to that point, and abandons every other theme explored in the series.

So you would like the Catalyst in concept if it were better written or written in a way that you liked or established earlier on in the series ?

I thought the bittersweet came quite natural...it is established throughout the game that you can´t save them all and sacrifices have to be made.

there i a difference between soldiers bing killed by the weapons of the enemy, and arbitrarly forcing shepard to genocide a specie for no good reason.

Freespace 1 and 2 were bittersweet, especially if you die in the 2nd. They were still satisfying endings.

he is not forced to do that...he can cease control and function as the catalyst himself...

Does it boil down to you that you want a Victory with no drawbacks?

Victory with no drawback is Synthesis

I want something that make sense. The problem is that there is no real cause-consequence relation for the drawbacks.

Say, if i detonated the mass relay to kill the reaper fleet in sol, it'd make sense that everyone on earth and in he system woul die. Howeve, it makes no sense that the crucible dont discriminate reapers and other synthetics.


Please look at these, these ar bittersweet endings, in which a lot was sacrificd to win, but they are much more satisfying




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8v8iT4ajQE

[Mazebook]

Femlob wrote...

Adanu wrote...

If you think it was poor writing, that's fine.

Just don't force me to think so too, because I don't think so.

This kind of shit just drives me up the wall.

Those who complain don't think that the writing is bad. They know for a fact that the writing is bad. Objectively, quantifiably bad. This is not a matter of opinion; we are right, and you are wrong. It's as simple as that. Those who argue against this fact effectively state that professional education and a couple thousand years worth of literary works and criticism are less valid than their asinine assumptions. Seriously, who the f*ck do these people think they are?

What is a matter of opinion is whether this objectively, quantifiably bad writing offers enough value to be enjoyable in spite of its objective failings. You want to enjoy this shitty excuse for a story? Go right ahead and have fun. Just do not ever, ever, think that it's objectively, quantifiably good - because it isn't.

Hahahaha...

...thank you for ignorance and making my opposition look bad.

well done...well done! 

[ Disclaimer : i don´t think all who think the writting is bad are ignorant...a few have raised valid concers...and everybody has the right to have a opinion and express these...but they should also be prepaired to be challengend on these opinions. And handle these different opinions through the matter of arguements]

[I_eat_unicorns]

maaaze wrote...

Femlob wrote...

Adanu wrote...

If you think it was poor writing, that's fine.

Just don't force me to think so too, because I don't think so.

This kind of shit just drives me up the wall.

Those who complain don't think that the writing is bad. They know for a fact that the writing is bad. Objectively, quantifiably bad. This is not a matter of opinion; we are right, and you are wrong. It's as simple as that. Those who argue against this fact effectively state that professional education and a couple thousand years worth of literary works and criticism are less valid than their asinine assumptions. Seriously, who the f*ck do these people think they are?

What is a matter of opinion is whether this objectively, quantifiably bad writing offers enough value to be enjoyable in spite of its objective failings. You want to enjoy this shitty excuse for a story? Go right ahead and have fun. Just do not ever, ever, think that it's objectively, quantifiably good - because it isn't.

Hahahaha...

...thank you for ignorance and making my opposition look bad.

well done...well done! 

[ Disclaimer : i don´t think all who think the writting is bad are ignorant...a few have raised valid concers...and everybody has the right to have a opinion and express these...but they should also be prepaired to be challengend on these opinions. And handle these different opinions through the matter of arguements]

Well you can believe whatever you want to believe as that's how entertainment is derived from the audience. But really, if you think this ending was good, then you've got to explore more entertainment like books/movies/or even othher games. The fact that you have to try to convince yourself thatt he ending was good to defend it just shows how poorly executed it was. EC dlc fixed that, which made a lot of people happy, but what you're saying is that because it's bad, you don't want to be forced into thinking its bad? This is a forum, people are to discuss about the endings which were bad, saying that you "don't want to be forced into thinking it's bad" just shows you don't care so why post anyways, or you're trolling to make yourself above others. 

[CoolioThane]

I think it's good writing. That's my opinion. Errm...does that make you wrong femlob? As it clearly isn't a fact if I thought it good. 8-)

[Mazebook]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

Victory with no drawback is Synthesis

I want something that make sense. The problem is that there is no real cause-consequence relation for the drawbacks.

Say, if i detonated the mass relay to kill the reaper fleet in sol, it'd make sense that everyone on earth and in he system woul die. Howeve, it makes no sense that the crucible dont discriminate reapers and other synthetics.


Please look at these, these ar bittersweet endings, in which a lot was sacrificd to win, but they are much more satisfying




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8v8iT4ajQE

I can´t argue against that these are more satisfying to you.

It all relates back to expectations...what do I expect of a story...what gives me satisfaction.
These are all personal questions who have no universal answers attached to it...

It gives me personal great satisfaction to think about a story that does not judge...to leave things open for interpretation. I like movies and games that do exactly this more as other Storys, because I don´t like being told what to think.


I would argue that there are a lot of drawbacks to synthesis.
First the uniqueness of organics and synthetics are gone...all in favour of egality .
which means the sociaty of the galaxy can´t evolve on a different path...there is only one path left.
In a sense the galaxy looses their abilty to chose.
This is a valid concern...and for some people this is horrifing...(Synthesis is in a sense an idealised version of communism.)

To be clear this is not my opinion on Synthesis but a valid concern to raise.

Modifié par maaaze, 19 juillet 2012 - 06:52 .

[I_eat_unicorns]

CoolioThane wrote...

I think it's good writing. That's my opinion. Errm...does that make you wrong femlob? As it clearly isn't a fact if I thought it good. 8-)

Yea, but why did you think it was good?

[Vox Draco]

CoolioThane wrote...

I think it's good writing. That's my opinion. Errm...does that make you wrong femlob? As it clearly isn't a fact if I thought it good. 8-)

Hmmm...the only issue I have is that the people that say "Endings" and trilogy is bad writing often write and tell us all what and why it is actualyl bad writing, while the "other side" usually just says "it's stil lgood writing" or "I like it anyway, problem?"

Just saying "The ending is good" is just the same as "the ending is bad". Explaing your point of view is making the difference, I'd say...and I have seen far more valid points in favor of "bad writing" than good writing...

[CronoDragoon]

Vox Draco wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I think it's good writing. That's my opinion. Errm...does that make you wrong femlob? As it clearly isn't a fact if I thought it good. 8-)

Hmmm...the only issue I have is that the people that say "Endings" and trilogy is bad writing often write and tell us all what and why it is actualyl bad writing, while the "other side" usually just says "it's stil lgood writing" or "I like it anyway, problem?"

Just saying "The ending is good" is just the same as "the ending is bad". Explaing your point of view is making the difference, I'd say...and I have seen far more valid points in favor of "bad writing" than good writing...

While that may or may not be true, it is also true that many many people who disliked the endings make posts about it without evidence and are not called out on it.

[CoolioThane]

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I think it's good writing. That's my opinion. Errm...does that make you wrong femlob? As it clearly isn't a fact if I thought it good. 8-)

Yea, but why did you think it was good?

Why does it matter? I liked the writing. I'm an ITer so think it's been set up excellently. 

Ask me what I think if it turns out IT is not true, the ending might seem different to me without this point of view. Sorry I can't give exactly what you want me to give though 

[Vox Draco]

CoolioThane wrote...

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I think it's good writing. That's my opinion. Errm...does that make you wrong femlob? As it clearly isn't a fact if I thought it good. 8-)

Yea, but why did you think it was good?

Why does it matter? I liked the writing. I'm an ITer so think it's been set up excellently. 

Ask me what I think if it turns out IT is not true, the ending might seem different to me without this point of view. Sorry I can't give exactly what you want me to give though 

I like the IT as well, I would love to see it actually referred to and verified, but still even then I don't fail to see how badly constructed the story of Mass Effect is, all the way from the end of Mass Effect 1 to end of 3.

Ithe story about the Reapers just lingers in part 2 somewhere on the edge, while we are busy recruiting the dirty dozen while working for the cancer man. And nothing of it feels of any worth once we are fully into Mass Effect 3.

Even the IT, a glorious twist in storytelling and true to the actual lore, with more sense than anything the EC has to offer, cannot undo the many shortcomings the overlaying storyarc seems to have...

[eye basher]

There's no WE here only you.

[Abraham_uk]

Justin2k wrote...

Thread after thread after thread about the ending, the extended cut and everything else.  What if the indoctination theory was true, what if they really mean this, what if this is the real ending.

It's all rubbish.  You have hope and faith in Bioware I get it.  But the obvious plain truth is that Starchild was a joke, Bioware realised it was a joke but rather than rewrite it, they didn't want to offend their writing staff so they "expanded" on it.

It's just poor writing, nothing more or nothing less.  A five year old child could have finished the story better.  Defeat the reapers, save the galaxy.  There, done.

There is no clever hidden underlining meaning, there is no theory.  It was just a stupid contrived ending and the writers should have their work reviewed in future before releasing it to the public.  Just imagine if Luke Skywalker had walked in to face the Emperor and Darth Vader only to be faced with a little child telling him that the empire exists because people rebel or something.  Lucas would never had found work again.

Have you seen the Star Wars prequels?

Mee sah not so happy to seeee them. Mee sah very angry.

[CoolioThane]

I can see where you're coming from Vox! Each game does feel very different, and I agree the Reapers feel very distant in the second, though I got the feeling that's how we were supposed to feel, like a kind of false sense of security, so the events at the beginning of ME3 came as more of a shock?

Though I guess I'm kinda of an optimist when it comes to Mass Effect! Have you posted much on the IT thread? I'm having some of the best times just speculating and everything.

[I_eat_unicorns]

CoolioThane wrote...

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I think it's good writing. That's my opinion. Errm...does that make you wrong femlob? As it clearly isn't a fact if I thought it good. 8-)

Yea, but why did you think it was good?

Why does it matter? I liked the writing. I'm an ITer so think it's been set up excellently. 

Ask me what I think if it turns out IT is not true, the ending might seem different to me without this point of view. Sorry I can't give exactly what you want me to give though 

Well if you can't justify your opinion on why the ending was bad ( IT is not the ending) then your opinion is invalid to this discussion. I'll repeat what I said before in this topic: 
At this point, currently believeing that the writers "secretly intended the IT to be correct" after the release of the EC DLC is exactly equal to believing that the thing in the box at the end of 'Seven ' was a ham sandwich, or that Obi Wan Kenobi was meant to be Luke Skywalker come back from the future to guide himself. 

You can believe anything you want if that's how you derive entertainment, and there's nothing wrong with it. But if there can be a "truth" about the structure of a fictional work it is that that which the author intended is the actuality. ME's writers do not intend IT to be the valid end

Modifié par I_eat_unicorns, 19 juillet 2012 - 07:23 .

[Kamfrenchie]

maaaze wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

Victory with no drawback is Synthesis

I want something that make sense. The problem is that there is no real cause-consequence relation for the drawbacks.

Say, if i detonated the mass relay to kill the reaper fleet in sol, it'd make sense that everyone on earth and in he system woul die. Howeve, it makes no sense that the crucible dont discriminate reapers and other synthetics.


Please look at these, these ar bittersweet endings, in which a lot was sacrificd to win, but they are much more satisfying




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8v8iT4ajQE

I can´t argue against that these are more satisfying to you.

It all relates back to expectations...what do I expect of a story...what gives me satisfaction.
These are all personal questions who have no universal answers attached to it...

It gives me personal great satisfaction to think about a story that does not judge...to leave things open for interpretation. I like movies and games that do exactly this more as other Storys, because I don´t like being told what to think.


I would argue that there are a lot of drawbacks to synthesis.
First the uniqueness of organics and synthetics are gone...all in favour of egality .
which means the sociaty of the galaxy can´t evolve on a different path...there is only one path left.
In a sense the galaxy looses their abilty to chose.
This is a valid concern...and for some people this is horrifing...(Synthesis is in a sense an idealised version of communism.)

To be clear this is not my opinion on Synthesis but a valid concern to raise.

ahah ! but the EC clarly says that all is for the best if you choose synthesis, so it pretty much tells you what to think. From what you are told, Syntesis is clearly the best option according to th writrs.


Deus ex 1 did it right, as all option are less contrived and come in naturally, and all 3 choices are proposed by people who helped you. And none of the ending shows a pefect world or situation.

Honestly, you spend the entire game stoppng TIM because his ideas are stupid, but suddenly it's  viable option ?

And again, how come the crucible cant discriminate btween reapers andsynthetics if it can rewrite everyone's DNA ?

That's not saying synthetic vs organic couldn't be a valid theme, but in another game. You can't just dump all that on the player in the last 15 minutes.
You know spec op the line ? It doesn't start being dark and grim i the last 30 minutes, nor does it get incredibly brighter, instead, the whole game is grim, an makes you think about what you're doing, how pople ca react to this situation,how good intention can degenerate etc.

For th catalyst to be relevant, he sould have been foreshadowed more, and conflict vs snthetics should have been much more frequents  and deadly.

[Vox Draco]

CoolioThane wrote...

I can see where you're coming from Vox! Each game does feel very different, and I agree the Reapers feel very distant in the second, though I got the feeling that's how we were supposed to feel, like a kind of false sense of security, so the events at the beginning of ME3 came as more of a shock?

Though I guess I'm kinda of an optimist when it comes to Mass Effect! Have you posted much on the IT thread? I'm having some of the best times just speculating and everything.

I enjoyed ME2 as a game, the characters (at least the more interesting ones, like Mordin and the far too late introduced Legion, but really, who needs Miranda (arse?) or Jacob, Thane, or Jack? I mean, to push the plot further? They are not needed, and even take valuabel time away that could have spent on fleshing out chars we already know, like the VS, Liara, Garrus, Tali, etc...

That false sense of security? Really, not needed I say. If anything, ME2 should have been all about building up tension and fear of the inevitable Reaper invasion, and about convincing the galaxy about this, to prepare...Instead this is done in some last minute effort all squeezed into ME3, no wodner this feels rushed for so many, they wasted an entire game doing nothing to advance the plot after all...

I used to be an optimist months ago and I loved and still love the IT, because I can see the oppotunities in story-telling it provides, besides the usual "I hate it because its all a dream"-complaint, which just shows a lack of imagination and fantasy, as far as I am concerned...

Yet I never participated much in the threads. I followed it, and defended IT and will still defend IT outside of the thread though, and have a deep resepct for the people that dissected the trilogy for evidence. I guess they know more about the trilogy and the lore than the people responsible for the mess of an ending...

[Mazebook]

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Femlob wrote...

Adanu wrote...

If you think it was poor writing, that's fine.

Just don't force me to think so too, because I don't think so.

This kind of shit just drives me up the wall.

Those who complain don't think that the writing is bad. They know for a fact that the writing is bad. Objectively, quantifiably bad. This is not a matter of opinion; we are right, and you are wrong. It's as simple as that. Those who argue against this fact effectively state that professional education and a couple thousand years worth of literary works and criticism are less valid than their asinine assumptions. Seriously, who the f*ck do these people think they are?

What is a matter of opinion is whether this objectively, quantifiably bad writing offers enough value to be enjoyable in spite of its objective failings. You want to enjoy this shitty excuse for a story? Go right ahead and have fun. Just do not ever, ever, think that it's objectively, quantifiably good - because it isn't.

Hahahaha...

...thank you for ignorance and making my opposition look bad.

well done...well done! 

[ Disclaimer : i don´t think all who think the writting is bad are ignorant...a few have raised valid concers...and everybody has the right to have a opinion and express these...but they should also be prepaired to be challengend on these opinions. And handle these different opinions through the matter of arguements]

Well you can believe whatever you want to believe as that's how entertainment is derived from the audience. But really, if you think this ending was good, then you've got to explore more entertainment like books/movies/or even othher games. The fact that you have to try to convince yourself thatt he ending was good to defend it just shows how poorly executed it was. EC dlc fixed that, which made a lot of people happy, but what you're saying is that because it's bad, you don't want to be forced into thinking its bad? This is a forum, people are to discuss about the endings which were bad, saying that you "don't want to be forced into thinking it's bad" just shows you don't care so why post anyways, or you're trolling to make yourself above others. 

But really, if you think this ending was good, then you've got to explore more entertainment like books/movies/or even othher games 

Believe me... I watched thounds of movies from the good (Kubrick, Nolan , Jarmusch) to the bad (Bay , Emmerich, Wiseau)...read hundereds of books (Max Frisch, Süßkind, Adams) and played hunderds of narrative driven games (Monkey Island, Portal, Fallout series)...

this does not make me an expert but it gives me enough to form an opinion on what makes good and interesting Storytelling. (Art Experts by the way should not be in buisness of judging but in buisness of exploring)

The fact that you have to try to convince yourself thatt he ending was good to defend it just shows how poorly executed it was.  

I don´t have to try to convince me of anything...Me and many others reached this conclusion on their own.
I choose to argue about the ending the same reason you choose to attack it. To express your feelings and reflect on you reasoning.

EC dlc fixed that, which made a lot of people happy, but what you're saying is that because it's bad, you don't want to be forced into thinking its bad? 

The op made a claim that some people (and i included myself) are pretending the writting is good. I´ve come here to challenge these claims because I know this claim is wrong... I am not pretending anything. I write what i believe is true.

This is a forum, people are to discuss about the endings which were bad, saying that you "don't want to be forced into thinking it's bad" just shows you don't care so why post anyways, or you're trolling to make yourself above others. 

The OP asked a question, based on a claim she has made, that included me as a part of people who don´t think the writting is bad. I have come here to oppose these claims. If you are not ready to be challengend on claims...why would you make them in the first place.

Modifié par maaaze, 19 juillet 2012 - 07:30 .

[satunnainen]

Femlob wrote...

Adanu wrote...

If you think it was poor writing, that's fine.

Just don't force me to think so too, because I don't think so.

This kind of shit just drives me up the wall.

Those who complain don't think that the writing is bad. They know for a fact that the writing is bad. Objectively, quantifiably bad. This is not a matter of opinion; we are right, and you are wrong. It's as simple as that. Those who argue against this fact effectively state that professional education and a couple thousand years worth of literary works and criticism are less valid than their asinine assumptions. Seriously, who the f*ck do these people think they are?

What is a matter of opinion is whether this objectively, quantifiably bad writing offers enough value to be enjoyable in spite of its objective failings. You want to enjoy this shitty excuse for a story? Go right ahead and have fun. Just do not ever, ever, think that it's objectively, quantifiably good - because it isn't.

Dear sir/madam, if the professional education and couple of thousands of years of literary works and criticism distills into an opinion like yours, then they have a point.

[CoolioThane]

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I think it's good writing. That's my opinion. Errm...does that make you wrong femlob? As it clearly isn't a fact if I thought it good. 8-)

Yea, but why did you think it was good?

Why does it matter? I liked the writing. I'm an ITer so think it's been set up excellently. 

Ask me what I think if it turns out IT is not true, the ending might seem different to me without this point of view. Sorry I can't give exactly what you want me to give though 

Well if you can't justify your opinion on why the ending was bad ( IT is not the ending) then your opinion is invalid to this discussion. I'll repeat what I said before in this topic: 
At this point, currently believeing that the writers "secretly intended the IT to be correct" after the release of the EC DLC is exactly equal to believing that the thing in the box at the end of 'Seven ' was a ham sandwich, or that Obi Wan Kenobi was meant to be Luke Skywalker come back from the future to guide himself. 

You can believe anything you want if that's how you derive entertainment, and there's nothing wrong with it. But if there can be a "truth" about the structure of a fictional work it is that that which the author intended is the actuality. ME's writers do not intend IT to be the valid end

Oh, do you work for Bioware then? Until it is proven that IT is false, all that you say is conjecture. 

No it is not, because the IT makes logical sense and fits the theme of the series..unlike a ham sandwich in Seven 

Again, conjecture. You don't know that IT still won't be made true