32 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Haplose wrote...

Also I tend to disagree that pulling should be considered a viable tactic in DAO. Like has been said before, which MMO will allow you to pull enemies one-by-one? Perhaps except at the first 20 levels, anyhow, as they are usually more forgiving at the beginning.
In DAO you pull single mobs. Very rarely you get 1-2 adds. Some mobs sometimes indeed seem stuck. Leashed if you prefer. I can't imagine that being on purpose though, as then they die without even reacting to ranged fire.

So I really think that is an exploit. Or a really horrible implementation.

I have to say that this is completely the opposite of what I experienced. The ONLY time I can remember the entire enemy horde not reacing on pulling are Ser Cauthriens archers.  In every other case archers did always fight back and often even chase, and meelees could be pulled, but very rarely alone. Usually it worked only to pull ALL the meelees without the archers, and sometimes not even that. The AI is even able to open doors if you try to keep them out by closing the door. Naturally there are exceptions, and sometimes the AI sucks (no wonder as they are drunk) but usually enemies work together very well.

[Naxarrath]

Nice post but i have to disagree on few things.

Inferno, blizzard , tempest. These spells take long to cast, the damage
is very verypoor especially in nightmare, slows combat, prevents you
from charging at enemies, reduces atk hit rate for both sides which is
bad for you.
Rare are the occasions where you will land them
perfectly, you have to have and standing stillmob and get them by
surprise, the fireball + inferno combo is good but again, it's very
situational.

Aoe spells are archer killers and with good placement with glyph of repulsion even melee will die, they cant even get away from those spells, you can cast them right next room throught wall and you say damage is poor? Obviously you have never heard of Storm of the century.

Heal- Just use  a potion. It's faster and consumes no mana. Although get group heal, it's a whole different history.

Heal is bad? Could not disagree with you more how you think you are drinking healing potion when you are grapped, overwhelmet or crushing prison is cast on you? It is only 1 point in to creation tree and nice to have with your healing potions together too, why you would rely only 1 source of healin.

[Sidney]

Naxarrath wrote...

Aoe spells are archer killers and with good placement with glyph of repulsion even melee will die, they cant even get away from those spells, you can cast them right next room throught wall and you say damage is poor? Obviously you have never heard of Storm of the century.

Exactly right.

Inferno, Blizzard and such are artillery for me. I never cast them in combat, well almost never, because of the casting time and friendly fire problems. I cast those in advance. When I recon a room and figure out there are enemies in that room I will drop the spell on them in advance. Casting time doesn't matter at that point and you are softening the baddies up before they even get near you. Couple those will an earthquake or Glyph of Repulsion and you can pin foes in place and tear them up very badly so they become more one hit type kills for the warriors.

[tetracycloide]

There are only two rules, what you can do and what you can't do.  If something isn't working the way it was designed to work it will eventually be patched (one would hope at least) at which point everyone using that tactic will have to find a new one.  Speculating on what is or is not intended, like pulling or pre-casting or casting through walls or freezing mobs that are immune to cold, is a silly waste of time.  If the AI allows pulling now then there's no reason pulling should be considered an exploit.

Pointing out that pulling doesn't make logical sense in terms of group behaviour is to attach a humanness to something that is inherintly not human.  It's a game engine, pulling makes just as much sense as a bunch of enemies standing perfectly still in a room waiting for a PC to open the door and walk in.  Makes at least as much sense as all of them watching the door open and not reacting or investigating while a stealthed rogue lays mechanical devices at their feat.  Makes at least as much sense as the stealth mechanics in this game.  Ect ad nausium.

[Lord Phoebus]

Use a rogue to scout ahead and set up a battle plan for the enemies. Keep an eye on which enemies are dangerous and need to be taken out quickly, and have a plan to CC or Kill those target as soon as the battle starts. Quite a few of the battles are difficult because the enemies have good positions, if you can get them out of position the fight can become much easier.

Try to group enemies together, AoEs are like artilery, it's much more effective when your targets are all together than when spread out. Even the melee abilities like Dual weapon sweep are going to be more effective when used against a tightly grouped bunch of enemies.

Often it's useful to have your mage(s) set up a killing field, get everyone attacking the rogue and then have the rogue lead the enemies into the killing field. This often lets you time a slower CC like mass paralysis or set up a nice Glyph Explosion combo to freeze all the enemies in a couple of DoT AoEs. Even on Nightmare, two DoT AoEs do enough damage to kill a white enemy if you can keep them in it.

Make use of choke points to fight enemies a few at a time. This also makes it easier to freeze multiple enemies with a Glyph of Paralysis, Cone of Cold or Waking Nightmare.

Learn how to time your spells to get the most out of the duration. E.g. if you cast a glyph of repulsion at a choke point to keep the enemies there wait until it's about drop before you cast a glyph of paralysis on top of it.

Know when a character is a lost cause. Sometimes you'll get into a situation where one of your characters is swarmed and taking damage faster than you can heal. Either put them in a Force Field, have them run away from the rest of the party as far as they can, or dump AoE death on top of them, instead of healing them.

Use spell combos. Most spells by themselves aren't all that strong but the combos are. Storm of the Century can end battles before they start. Entropic death can severely weaken a target and even kill some bosses. Sleep+Horror is another one that does a good job and is pretty cheap to pickup. Also shatter as many enemies as you can.

Use hexes on bosses. If you use a mage in your party, make sure they have the hex line, hitting a target with vulnerability and affliction will double the damage of your spells, staff attacks, elemental damage from weapons and shale's attacks. Death hex will do the same for your melee allies.

If one of your characters has been hit with an ability that comprimises their defence, like Sunder Armor, or Mark of Death have them run away until the effect wears off.

Modifié par Lord Phoebus, 18 décembre 2009 - 09:06 .

[ijmorris]

DA: O is actually quite good as far as AI is concerned. On MANY occasions, I notice the enemies will try and take out the mage when they realize it's a mage. That's specifically why Taunt and such spells were included...ANd I've noticed MANY occasions where an archer will pull away from a mob, start getting plunked by your party, then run back to the mob. The battle with Jarvia is particularly difficult because you can't leave the room, and Jarvia will immediately stealth and backstab the mage - SPECIFICALLY the mage....even repositioning to one of the southern corners, where about half the archers can't shoot you, doesn't entirely block Jarvia from the mage.

[Duck and Cover]

I believe pulling is legitimate, but it is also broken (when done at max range). If you pull when they can "see" you they properly aggro and come to you in a group. But if you pull at max range, only one comes. The best example for this is the forge master in the dead trenches (not sure if the name is right- the area right before the anvil) That's a hard fight if you just charge in there. But if you are at max range, their archers will only come one by one.

[AiTenshi1]

I play on Hard and Nightmare, and I felt that I needed to add my comments to the posts about using certain strategies. Before I do, I'd like to point out that I play on Hard and Nightmare only, and that I disagree with several of the tips offered in the OP because I play an all female ranged party. Strategies require consideration of specific play styles and party makeups. The massive AoE spells are excellent for my party, for example. A party of all melee warrors would require different strategies than I use.



Anyway... I can't believe that there are people who think that dividing an enemy is somehow cheating or exploiting bad AI. No, it isn't... not if you are roleplaying ranged characters and party makeups, anyway. It's called "roleplaying" according to the characters skills and abilities, as well as the entire party makeup if you play an all ranged party (as I do). Crowd control? Well, that is far less a concern if you play a party focused on ranged combat rather than a melee crowd approach. The game offers such abilities for different strategies and play styles, so you are supposed to pick what suits you and your characters.



If you want to claim "bad AI," let's include the opposite and note that the AI for NPC party members, as well as the Tactics system, is extremely broken. Let's consider a couple simple and frequently occurring scenarios.



[sarcasm] Sure, it's completely believable and realistic that the enemies are allowed to stay just out of range (which the computer can calculate much more easily and quickly than any human player), plunk away at your party members, and your wonderful allies just sit there and slowly die. Yes, that's great AI, of course, and by gosh, you should not do any type of strategy that would alleviate the events when this occurs. Oh, and of course enemies that home in on your PC mage who is your primary damage dealer while completely ignoring the other three party members who are quickly whittling down the enemy's health while he chases the mage PC all over tarnation is quite intelligent and realistic. [/sarcasm]



Sorry, I don't usually get so sarcastic, but the game AI and Tactics system is simply broken on many counts, and using proper combat strategy that is taught in any area of actual military studies is certainly not an exploit in any way, especially when it helps to correct the broken system in the first place and simply allows you to roleplay your party in the second place. I suppose that using robots and long range bombs, even guns, rather than fighting hand to hand in close combat is also an exploit in real life modern warfare? Not that I approve, mind you, but the reason these tools are used is due to strategy concerns.



Anyone can claim that pulling is cheating, but I cannot agree when the AI and Tactics is so broken that your own allies simply stand there and allow themselves to be killed slowly by the same type of tactics being used by enemy long range units, or the enemy slowly dies by chasing a threat target ad nauseum while the rest of your party simply whittles the enemy's health away to nothing. This game has no AI concept for self-defense or self-preservation to speak of. About the only exception I've seen is some enemies will (very rarely) back out of AoE or retreat if taking large damage spikes, but this is the exception rather than the rule.