85 réponses à ce sujet

[AngryFrozenWater]

happy_daiz wrote...

Wouldn't that require BW to take exploration outside of the rails that both DAO and DA2 had? Those two games are polar opposites of TES-esque open world. Just the mechanics of allowing the pc to jump up on a rock (or properly go into/out of cover, ala ME3) seems like it would be a challenge for BW, and the engines they seem fond of using. Plus, there are always zots to consider.

Remember that TW1 used a BW engine. Again, one may not like that game or its story, but TW1 gave the illusion of a large world and still the story was much deeper than TES. The typical BW features could still be available in such a compromise. Also, the cover system of ME3 is just a bad implementation. It is not bound by any engine. It's limited by the skills of the implementers.

[Bekkael]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Nah, don't think that Jerry.
Seems like they want to add more exploration in the next game but how they will do that is still in the open. I go with Pasquale1234 on this one, a map with multiple locations kind of like the map in DAO.

This is what I think as well. I can't see BioWare ever making a game like any of the TES titles. Sandbox isn't their thing; story is, and that generally seems to come with a smaller and less explorable world.

[Jerrybnsn]

DuskWarden wrote...

Unless EA has done a complete 180, I doubt DA3 will have any where near the time or funding Skyrim had. So to do an open world well, and to fill that world with Bioware standard characters? I don't see it happening.

I can't see that happening either.  Bioware characters stand still...for years and years in the same spot...while Bethesda creates npcs that go about their daily businesses and react to their enviorments around them.  But neither is really a prerequisite for an "open world".

[AngryFrozenWater]

Bekkael wrote...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Nah, don't think that Jerry.
Seems like they want to add more exploration in the next game but how they will do that is still in the open. I go with Pasquale1234 on this one, a map with multiple locations kind of like the map in DAO.

This is what I think as well. I can't see BioWare ever making a game like any of the TES titles. Sandbox isn't their thing; story is, and that generally seems to come with a smaller and less explorable world.

I still think it doesn't have to be that way. I tried to describe that in the compromise above. That's what game innovation is about. If BW never tries something new then they would still be making a 2D BG15.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 19 juillet 2012 - 05:04 .

[Jerrybnsn]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

..............it doesn't mean both can't be merged. We don't see that happen without compromises, because it is expensive. But a compromise is possible. TW2 has shown that. .

TW2 isn't an open world game at all.  I got all excited when I saw that map of the world and was soooooo disappointed that it was a liner storyline based game.  Even walking around in the enviroments is like Dragon Age where you have to stay on paths.

[Bekkael]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Nah, don't think that Jerry.
Seems like they want to add more exploration in the next game but how they will do that is still in the open. I go with Pasquale1234 on this one, a map with multiple locations kind of like the map in DAO.

This is what I think as well. I can't see BioWare ever making a game like any of the TES titles. Sandbox isn't their thing; story is, and that generally seems to come with a smaller and less explorable world.

I still think it doesn't have to be that way. I tried to describe that in the compromise above. That's what game innovation is about. If BW never tries something new then they would still be making a 2D BG15.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to them trying new things. I'm all for pushing the boundaries, just so long as they do whatever it is well.

If I was forced to choose between world size and explorability over character depth and story though, I would rather have better characters/story anyday.

[Fredward]

Eh. I haven't seen anything that makes me think it will be and I really hope it isn't. Story driven + open world just do not mix as far as I'm concerned.

[Urazz]

I doubt this is true. I think there will be more locations you can travel but I doubt we'll see an open world like in the Elder Scrolls games.

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Eh. I haven't seen anything that makes me think it will be and I really hope it isn't. Story driven + open world just do not mix as far as I'm concerned.

Not only that but think about the time and resources that would have to be spent to make it work.

Modifié par Urazz, 19 juillet 2012 - 05:20 .

[Chromie]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Eh. I haven't seen anything that makes me think it will be and I really hope it isn't. Story driven + open world just do not mix as far as I'm concerned.

Fallout 1 and 2 say hi.

[Fallstar]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

Unless EA has done a complete 180, I doubt DA3 will have any where near the time or funding Skyrim had. So to do an open world well, and to fill that world with Bioware standard characters? I don't see it happening.

I can't see that happening either.  Bioware characters stand still...for years and years in the same spot...while Bethesda creates npcs that go about their daily businesses and react to their enviorments around them.  But neither is really a prerequisite for an "open world".

Yes, I was referring to the higher quality characters we see. Whilst the vast majority of TES characters are more fleshed out than the vast majority of Bioware's characters, the vast majority of Bioware's characters are irrelevant. I was referring to the characters Bioware take the time to focus on, they are normally feel far more like people than Skyrim's characters. Not that that's any fault of Bethesda's, the focus of TES games is to provide the world, and the basics of the characters.

Skelter192 wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Eh. I haven't seen anything that makes me think it will be and I really hope it isn't. Story driven + open world just do not mix as far as I'm concerned.

Fallout 1 and 2 say hi.

 

Perhaps Foopy should have said story driven + open world + cinematically focussed then.

Plus I wouldn't say Bioware's games are more story driven than Bethesda's games. I'd say Bioware's games are character driven.

Modifié par DuskWarden, 19 juillet 2012 - 05:32 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

..............it doesn't mean both can't be merged. We don't see that happen without compromises, because it is expensive. But a compromise is possible. TW2 has shown that.

TW2 isn't an open world game at all.  I got all excited when I saw that map of the world and was soooooo disappointed that it was a liner storyline based game.  Even walking around in the enviroments is like Dragon Age where you have to stay on paths.

I have never said that it was an open world. I've said it gives the illusion of being one. That's where the compromise kicks in. And what I don't really get is that everything has to be taken literally. As if nothing can be improved upon. Why don't you save your energy for once and try to dream up something that can be achieved. Isn't that what my suggestion is about?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 19 juillet 2012 - 05:46 .

[Maclimes]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Bioware characters stand still...for years and years in the same spot..

"Good luck getting in. I've been waiting here all day."

You've been waiting there for SIX YEARS, you feeb!

[Arthur Cousland]

The source, being a fan who supposedly spoke to someone from Bioware, isn't exactly reliable.

Bioware don't need to make a Skyrim clone, but I wouldn't mind seeing the games open up a bit more and feel less restrictive and linear. What I do love most about games like Skyrim is that I can play the game as I see fit and feel like I am the hero of the story and not just a witness. There's plenty of room for Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls; they don't need to merge.

[VanishedFaces]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

The source, being a fan who supposedly spoke to someone from Bioware, isn't exactly reliable.

Bioware don't need to make a Skyrim clone, but I wouldn't mind seeing the games open up a bit more and feel less restrictive and linear. What I do love most about games like Skyrim is that I can play the game as I see fit and feel like I am the hero of the story and not just a witness. There's plenty of room for Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls; they don't need to merge.

Yeah, this. It would be great to have a chance to do a bit more exploration in the world rather than just have each area funnel us towards the goal with a few small side-alleys to explore. Maybe like, whole other paths to wander down which don't necessarily lead you anywhere important but which might introduce sidequests or people and items that contain a bit more lore.

But if by open world they mean sandbox, I...no. No no no no.

Anyways, I don't put much faith in these rumours because so far it is all "a friend of a friend who is a DA fan talked to the nephew of a Bioware janitor's best friend, who said that it would be open world."

[EpicBoot2daFace]

I don't think BioWare is capable of making an open world game like Skyrim.

[deuce985]

If Bioware could keep their storytelling/character devleopment and create a full open world(not artificial), it has potential to be their boldest project ever.

However, I seriously doubt it. Not only is this a rumor from some fan's mouth, it would be a difficult task. The only open world game I've ever played with a decent story is Red Dead Redemption(at least that's all that comes to mind).

Guys like R* and Bethesda have been refining their open formula for well over 12+ years. I just don't see it happening.

I'm willing to bet the "fan" interpreted what they said wrong. They probably said it will be more open, not fully open world...

Big difference...and in that case, we all expect that based on their comments at PAX.

[deuce985]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

..............it doesn't mean both can't be merged. We don't see that happen without compromises, because it is expensive. But a compromise is possible. TW2 has shown that.

TW2 isn't an open world game at all.  I got all excited when I saw that map of the world and was soooooo disappointed that it was a liner storyline based game.  Even walking around in the enviroments is like Dragon Age where you have to stay on paths.

I have never said that it was an open world. I've said it gives the illusion of being one. That's where the compromise kicks in. And what I don't really get is that everything has to be taken literally. As if nothing can be improved upon. Why don't you save your energy for once and try to dream up something that can be achieved. Isn't that what my suggestion is about?

I agree 100%.

Witcher 2 is actually a great example of a game that could be what they aim for.

Everything was around the hub and Witcher 2 was a relatively short game. But like you said, where they put the compromise, it worked in that game very well. Imports not having much of an impact at all, more choices with weight behind them(like changing settings completely in ACT 2) and a bigger world probably all contributed to a shorter game.

Modifié par deuce985, 19 juillet 2012 - 06:32 .

[Fredward]

Skelter192 wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Eh. I haven't seen anything that makes me think it will be and I really hope it isn't. Story driven + open world just do not mix as far as I'm concerned.

Fallout 1 and 2 say hi.

-shrug- Before my time.

[AkiKishi]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Another game that does the open world feel well is Kingdom of Amalur.

TW used a BW engine that had undergone some tweaking. Zots can be used only once of course. Maybe some of it could be used for the engine.

True but the story does suffer for all the wandering around you can do. In something heavily story based you do need some sort of periodic involvement with the plot.

[AkiKishi]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

..............it doesn't mean both can't be merged. We don't see that happen without compromises, because it is expensive. But a compromise is possible. TW2 has shown that.

TW2 isn't an open world game at all.  I got all excited when I saw that map of the world and was soooooo disappointed that it was a liner storyline based game.  Even walking around in the enviroments is like Dragon Age where you have to stay on paths.

I have never said that it was an open world. I've said it gives the illusion of being one. That's where the compromise kicks in. And what I don't really get is that everything has to be taken literally. As if nothing can be improved upon. Why don't you save your energy for once and try to dream up something that can be achieved. Isn't that what my suggestion is about?

For its size it gives a much better impression of scale than DA2 while at the same time keeping you quite tightly focused on the plot. It's not that I think the TES games plots are bad, you just don't spend enough time with them to really be engaged by it. Far too many distractions that the Witcher manages to avoid.Even the hunt sidequests are "Witchers Work".

Modifié par BobSmith101, 19 juillet 2012 - 07:02 .

[Massakkolia]

There are so many things wrong with that article. First, they misunderstand the open world concept. Unlike they claim, DAO is not an open world game. Means of travel are limited to teleporting across the map and the areas are fairly small and limited.

Second, they mention a new report and yet in in the same breath reveal that DA3 is open world "at least according to a Bioware fan." One fan does not a new report make. Secondary sources are unreliable and, frankly, unusable if there's only one of them.

Third, just because Skyrim (or any other game) happens to be popular, it does not make it "a safe bet" to say that another company like Bioware will start copying Bethesda. Is an iota of journalistic integrity too much to ask even if it's the internet?

Still, I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware would significantly enhance the exploration part of Dragon Age. It could sure use a makeover. I'd love a game with Skyrim-like world (1/4 of that scale would be enough) with vivid characters and a decent storyline. I really can't see why those two approaches should automatically cancel each other out.

Modifié par Ria, 19 juillet 2012 - 07:09 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

But there's no reason to explore Thedas. It's a pretty dull and unexciting place.