223 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

druidofwarp wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

This is exactly what happens when you jump into a conversation that you know nothing about.  The special olympics comment is a refernce to a dialog that Lotion and I shared in another topic.  Before you consider yourself qualified to comment on my assessment, I suggest you know something of the history behind the comments, as without that, you are taking a line out of context and trying to build some kind of super nuker bomb to blast me with.  Enough of this, uninformed people should stay out of other's conversations.  You have a poor enough grip on the reality of my feeling about this subject as it is, despite my trying continually to explain it.  Hell, you went two (?) pages of a topic denying that Alistair could ever lie to the PC.  I find this more revealing than anything you could post here, or anywhere else.  Blinded by fandom.

Let's address the coward first.  He doesn't kill the Archdemon to be noble, or to be, in his words, "the best king I can be".  He kills the Archdemon because it's an easy way out of a life that he didn't want from the beginning.  Go ahead and try to prove otherwise.  What in game gives you the impression that he's decided to be a great king at this point in the game?  The fact that he's going to throw his life away to avoid doing it?  "I'm scared I might mess something up being King, so I'm going to kill the Archdemon so I don't have to worry about it"...

When he should have been taking responsibility, for all intents and purposes, is Flemeth's hut.  He is the senior Grey Warden, and I believe Flemeth will call him on this, and Morrigan does as well.  Now, there's a game mechanics problem here, but that doesn't cover the conversation in Lothering.  Except to give a cover story.  However, this is written into his character, but, as in the other topic, you may rationalize and justify his behavior any way you wish.

This response still fits pretty much into the paraphrasing I did of you earlier though, in that other topic.  Here you are, yet again, "OMG, Alistair is under attack, I have to call out the fanbois squad to shoot down the opposition"...  Cheers to you too, I guess.  However, I'm going to make this really easy:

Why Alistair is a wimp.

1.  When he should be stepping up to the plate, even simply as the senior Grey Warden, he waffles and lets the PC lead.  Note, the argument that this is game mechanics, while relevant, does not cover the conversation in Lothering, both in the cutscene after the bandits, and in a dialog with Morrigan.

2.  He is the only known surviving heir of Maric, and yet would rather lie to the PC prior to Redcliffe about who his father is to avoid his responsibilities.  Rationalization of not wanting to rule, or make decisions is a direct link to being a wimp.  It's actually a good sign of cowardice, however, wimp is higher on the food chain than coward, so we'll give him the credit here.

3.  Whether you take him to Redcliffe the first time you go, or you find out from Arl Eamon, there is a dialog that includes "I don't know who you are".  If you choose this option, he gets butthurt, and starts to break up with you.  If you try to apologize for being shocked to find out that he's been lying to you the whole time you've known him, he will be an ass, thinking that you owe him that, and if you call him on it, he will, rather than deal with the emotional conflict, break up with you.  This is also pretty cowardly.

What any of this has to do with Alpha Male, I have no idea.  However, even Beta males won't hide from their responsibilities.  The Landsmeet just further cements his immaturity, unless you kill Loghain, and frankly, I'm not sure he wouldn't be childish if you killed Loghain instead of allowing him to do it.  I haven't tried.  However, it would certainly fit in with what is known about him so far.

Alright so you made a special olympics references implying your calling him a name still ad hominem. Whatever whats worse is you make a claim that I spend 2(?) pages "denying that Alistair could ever lie to the PC." you have no evidence to back this up as I made no such claims, instead I was defending Alistairs POV. Then again your telling me that I am uninformed when you just completey mistated my arguments in the other thread is quite telling.

So let me adress the cowardice thing. I'm guessing you unlocked the secret mind reader spec? That you are such an Alistair expert that you know that the only thing flowing through his mind at the time was his fear of being king? I mean in no way could his love for the PC or his desire to stop the Blight with his own hands or anything else could have factored into his decision. Trying to second guess this brave deed with the idea that you know his thoughts is impossible to logically prove.

Alistair doesn't want to lead that's his problem, and he has his reasons like being a follower as a person. Not everyone was meant to lead I'm not sure why you think the people he is related to defines how he should act. Lol you are clearly more on the Alistair hate squad than I am his defender.

1. He is senior by six months, for all you know you guys are still the same rank. He is technically senior but its not by much so I dont see why this is such a big deal that he defers to you since you seem more capable to him.

2.Again a lie that has no bearing on the story or your actions until very late in the game. He does not want to rule but when forced to becomes a good king, so he acts a wimp then rises to the occasion. But that last statement varies as such things would by the actions your PC takes in different games.

3.Really it seems he doesn't get anymore butthurt than you do. And maybe he jsut doesnt like you PC enough to try and work things out like that lol.

He is fine as long as Loghain dies.

I guess he does act wimpy from time to time, you know when he's not murdering darkspawn, but he's no coward.

Really he was lying since day 1? I guess you got some secret dialouge where he specifically told you he was NOT the son of Maric when you meet him in Ostagar. Oh he was lying by omission? I guess you also told him every single detail about your heritage? Even if you did why would you expect him to tell you unless he was ready? He doesn't owe you anything so don't act like your entitled to have Alistair be your slave.

So you never typed this?
http://social.biowar.../index/465149/3

[Adria Teksuni]

Well...for gameplay purposes, Alistair couldn't want to lead because then he'd be the main character and not you and that's not good fun. The same arguments were made about Carth in KoTOR, why didn't he lead? He was the veteran soldier with years of experience. I thought the writers did pretty good with that one, too.



For storyline purposes, I liked that he was a strong male character with that vulnerability. Put him in combat, in a situation where he had confidence in his abilities, and he was fine. (Oh look, more beasties. Beasties a'comin'.) Socially, however, not so much, and yes I believe this was due to his upbringing.



He was never encouraged to think he could lead. In point of fact, he was told just the opposite.



When push comes to shove, though, he lets go of his reservations and becomes king. I like that, too.

[pudi0072000]

If Alistair's rep is high enough when you give him the 'I don't know who you are anymore' line and apologize later, he accepts it and you don't lose more rep for it, although I can't remember if you get a positive for it or not. The way your PC acts (or gives him gifts) affects how he reacts. Don't be an ass and he usually won't either

[LynxAQ]

druidofwarp wrote...

Alright so you made a special olympics references implying your calling him a name still ad hominem.

Not to take this discussion in a different direction but druidofwarp just to correct you and a few other people on ad hominens.



Ad Hominen is when an argument is made against the person with insults and no new / extra information is given to the discussion at hand.



Ad Hominen is NOT insulting a person whilst making new / adressing information in th discussion at hand.



Far too many people in these day and age call ad hominen and actually dont even know what they are talking about and most the time when they call ad hominen it is actually not.



Example (Keeping it simple): We are discussing Alistair being wimpy. I say he is a wimp because he eats apples. Apples are a cowards way out.



Ad Hominen reply: You are an orange eating idiot and dont even know what you are talkign about when it comes to Alistair. (Note how the reply has no meaningful addition to the discussion and doesnt present any new information or doesnt add anything to the discussion other than insulting the person who made the original statement.)



NOT an ad hominen reply: Apples are actually a sign of being brave as shown by XYZ, you orange eating idiot. (Note how the reply added something to the discussion and addressed the discussion at hand. Just because the reply tacked on an insult, this does NOT make it an ad hominen. It is just a reply with an insult tacked on. Nothing more.)



Sorry I know this is off topic but people need to learn what an ad hominen actually is.



Back on topic...



Loghain is by far the better man at the end of the day than Alistair. Remember next time guys, off with Alistairs head and keep Loghain alive. A real man > wimpy out for himself boy.

[Herr Uhl]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

Well...for gameplay purposes, Alistair couldn't want to lead because then he'd be the main character and not you and that's not good fun. The same arguments were made about Carth in KoTOR, why didn't he lead? He was the veteran soldier with years of experience. I thought the writers did pretty good with that one, too.

I would want the "I am manly" posing guy in the concept art. Too bad that it wouldn't work with you taking charge. It would be like having StenX2.

[druidofwarp]

robertthebard wrote...

Really he was lying since day 1? I guess you got some secret dialouge where he specifically told you he was NOT the son of Maric when you meet him in Ostagar. Oh he was lying by omission? I guess you also told him every single detail about your heritage? Even if you did why would you expect him to tell you unless he was ready? He doesn't owe you anything so don't act like your entitled to have Alistair be your slave.

So you never typed this?
http://social.biowar.../index/465149/3

Ah well you have me there I had forgotten that because that was the only time I argued that he wasn't lying not two pages, but I then said that he might not see it as really lying in another post. Still the rest of my post stands.

Modifié par druidofwarp, 18 décembre 2009 - 07:13 .

[LynxAQ]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

Well...for gameplay purposes, Alistair couldn't want to lead because then he'd be the main character and not you and that's not good fun. The same arguments were made about Carth in KoTOR, why didn't he lead? He was the veteran soldier with years of experience. I thought the writers did pretty good with that one, too.

For storyline purposes, I liked that he was a strong male character with that vulnerability. Put him in combat, in a situation where he had confidence in his abilities, and he was fine. (Oh look, more beasties. Beasties a'comin'.) Socially, however, not so much, and yes I believe this was due to his upbringing.

He was never encouraged to think he could lead. In point of fact, he was told just the opposite.

When push comes to shove, though, he lets go of his reservations and becomes king. I like that, too.

I dont buy the gameplay reasoning for him not to want to lead. What is the gameplay reason for him not wanting to be king? He even says several times through dialogue and party banter (Morrigan comes to mind mainly) that he does not think he will be a good king and he doesnt want it. I agree with him. Alistair is a disillusioned fool with no back bone for most the game. Only time he actually grows a back bone is when he wants personal vengeance. I mean the guy tries to suddenly take the crown and rulership of the people just so he can get his vengeance. Pathetic tbh. But hey ho circled argument now.

[druidofwarp]

LynxAQ wrote...

druidofwarp wrote...
Alright so you made a special olympics references implying your calling him a name still ad hominem.

Not to take this discussion in a different direction but druidofwarp just to correct you and a few other people on ad hominens.

Ad Hominen is when an argument is made against the person with insults and no new / extra information is given to the discussion at hand.

Ad Hominen is NOT insulting a person whilst making new / adressing information in th discussion at hand.

Far too many people in these day and age call ad hominen and actually dont even know what they are talking about and most the time when they call ad hominen it is actually not.

Example (Keeping it simple): We are discussing Alistair being wimpy. I say he is a wimp because he eats apples. Apples are a cowards way out.

Ad Hominen reply: You are an orange eating idiot and dont even know what you are talkign about when it comes to Alistair. (Note how the reply has no meaningful addition to the discussion and doesnt present any new information or doesnt add anything to the discussion other than insulting the person who made the original statement.)

NOT an ad hominen reply: Apples are actually a sign of being brave as shown by XYZ, you orange eating idiot. (Note how the reply added something to the discussion and addressed the discussion at hand. Just because the reply tacked on an insult, this does NOT make it an ad hominen. It is just a reply with an insult tacked on. Nothing more.)

Sorry I know this is off topic but people need to learn what an ad hominen actually is.

Back on topic...

Loghain is by far the better man at the end of the day than Alistair. Remember next time guys, off with Alistairs head and keep Loghain alive. A real man > wimpy out for himself boy.

Hmmm I had not thought about that, I always i assumed the insults did not add anything anyways and just took away from the arguments. Thanks for showing me that:wizard:

[Adria Teksuni]

The not wanting to be king stems from the gameplay reasons of him not being able to lead. They had to conceive a viable character story for him not wanting to lead, and him not wanting to be king is part of that.



He doesn't want to be responsible for leading the party but is ready to charge in and take care of a nation? What?

[druidofwarp]

LynxAQ wrote...


I dont buy the gameplay reasoning for him not to want to lead. What is the gameplay reason for him not wanting to be king? He even says several times through dialogue and party banter (Morrigan comes to mind mainly) that he does not think he will be a good king and he doesnt want it. I agree with him. Alistair is a disillusioned fool with no back bone for most the game. Only time he actually grows a back bone is when he wants personal vengeance. I mean the guy tries to suddenly take the crown and rulership of the people just so he can get his vengeance. Pathetic tbh. But hey ho circled argument now.

I see him as pretty optimistic and moral, and see his attempt on the crown as more than just petty revenge. The crimes Loghain commited were too numerous to go unpunished in his mind, and there you were going to let him walk free. So he tried to steal the crown because he could not let this go unpunished.

[Squiggles1334]

I have a lot of sympathy and care for Alistair, but I also happen to sympathize somewhat with Loghain. Oh HO now, how is this possible in such a polarized bipartisan message board?

[Smitridel]

To me, Alistair is just the..."good" lad of the party.
Always willing, sensitive, humorous. Heck, that ought to make an intriguing king

But even though he is a Grey Warden, he doesn't seem commited to the cause and ideas, due to the very fact of him being sensitive or clinging to ideas and psychological complexes of a family lost and found within the Grey Wardens and Your Party and so on...

Honestly, unless Im playing a lawfull/neutral/chaotic good character, he gets on my nerves.
He is way too sensitive, whereas he needs to be strong willed in a situation such as the Blight. I don't get it really, how a man with that particular personality, could ever be selected as a Grey Warden in the first place..

Modifié par Smitridel, 18 décembre 2009 - 07:16 .

[XOGHunter246]

he probably was the one Duncan wanted to sacrifice to demon that was Duncan plan all along he knew he was no king

[Sialater]

Smitridel wrote...

To me, Alistair is just the..."good" lad of the party.
Always willing, sensitive, humorous. Heck, that ought to make an intriguing king

But even though he is a Grey Warden, he doesn't seem commited to the cause and ideas, due to the very fact of him being sensitive or clinging to ideas and psychological complexes of a family lost and found within the Grey Wardens and Your Party and so on...

Honestly, unless Im playing a lawfull/neutral/chaotic good character, he gets on my nerves.
He is way to sensitive, where he needs to be strong willed in a situation such as the Blight. I don't get it really, how a man with that particular personality, could ever be selected as a Grey Warden in the first place..

Well... Duncan supposedly recruited him to keep him out of the Chantry's clutches and to keep him out of trouble.  In an organization dedicated to fighting Darkspawn, in six months, he's only killed ONE?  Yeah, Duncan had him wrapped in bubble wrap.

As far as pragmatic, wouldn't the most pragmatic thing Duncan would do is stick Alistair on the throne to make sure GW's are never exiled again?

[Herr Uhl]

Squiggles1334 wrote...

I have a lot of sympathy and care for Alistair, but I also happen to sympathize somewhat with Loghain. Oh HO now, how is this possible in such a polarized bipartisan message board?

Not just playing favorites and defending them and using the same logic as the "idiots" attacking your favorites on the ones you don't like?

You are suspended from this forum!

[Sialater]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Squiggles1334 wrote...

I have a lot of sympathy and care for Alistair, but I also happen to sympathize somewhat with Loghain. Oh HO now, how is this possible in such a polarized bipartisan message board?

Not just playing favorites and defending them and using the same logic as the "idiots" attacking your favorites on the ones you don't like?

You are suspended from this forum!

I agree with Squiggles.  I'm sympathetic to both.  As a writer, I have to see both sides of the coin, or my villains suck.  Doesn't mean I'm going to let Loghain live outside of getting the achievement since I prefer to play good girls, but I do sympathize.

[Smitridel]

Sialater wrote...

Smitridel wrote...

To me, Alistair is just the..."good" lad of the party.
Always willing, sensitive, humorous. Heck, that ought to make an intriguing king

But even though he is a Grey Warden, he doesn't seem commited to the cause and ideas, due to the very fact of him being sensitive or clinging to ideas and psychological complexes of a family lost and found within the Grey Wardens and Your Party and so on...

Honestly, unless Im playing a lawfull/neutral/chaotic good character, he gets on my nerves.
He is way to sensitive, where he needs to be strong willed in a situation such as the Blight. I don't get it really, how a man with that particular personality, could ever be selected as a Grey Warden in the first place..

Well... Duncan supposedly recruited him to keep him out of the Chantry's clutches and to keep him out of trouble.  In an organization dedicated to fighting Darkspawn, in six months, he's only killed ONE?  Yeah, Duncan had him wrapped in bubble wrap.

As far as pragmatic, wouldn't the most pragmatic thing Duncan would do is stick Alistair on the throne to make sure GW's are never exiled again?

Exactly.
What troubles me most is Alistair's Bubble Wraps.
As you correctly noticed there seems to be some "protective" sort of behavior on behalf of Duncan's...

- Was that on purpose? And if so, was that the purpose of having Alistair possibly crowned?

Im having a hard time believing that Duncan had schemes of Alistair's "King-Back up"...
If so, why keep him in the Grey Warden "curse-darkspawn-imminient-danger" at the first place?

Modifié par Smitridel, 18 décembre 2009 - 07:32 .

[Sialater]

Smitridel wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Smitridel wrote...

To me, Alistair is just the..."good" lad of the party.
Always willing, sensitive, humorous. Heck, that ought to make an intriguing king

But even though he is a Grey Warden, he doesn't seem commited to the cause and ideas, due to the very fact of him being sensitive or clinging to ideas and psychological complexes of a family lost and found within the Grey Wardens and Your Party and so on...

Honestly, unless Im playing a lawfull/neutral/chaotic good character, he gets on my nerves.
He is way to sensitive, where he needs to be strong willed in a situation such as the Blight. I don't get it really, how a man with that particular personality, could ever be selected as a Grey Warden in the first place..

Well... Duncan supposedly recruited him to keep him out of the Chantry's clutches and to keep him out of trouble.  In an organization dedicated to fighting Darkspawn, in six months, he's only killed ONE?  Yeah, Duncan had him wrapped in bubble wrap.

As far as pragmatic, wouldn't the most pragmatic thing Duncan would do is stick Alistair on the throne to make sure GW's are never exiled again?

Exactly.
What troubles me most is Alistair's Bubble Wraps.
As you correctly noticed there seems to be some "protective" sort of behavior on behalf of Duncan's...

- Was that on purpose? And if so, was that the purpose of having Alistair possibly crowned?

Im having a hard time believing that Duncan had schemes of Alistair's "King-Back up"...
If so, why keep him in the Grey Warden danger at the first place?

Well... the only gamble he took was the 50/50 of the Joining, other than that, Alistair was kept safe from harm (even by Cailen  -- as a Cousland, I took the dialogue choice about lighting the tower by myself and the king shot me down, sending Alistair to the 'safer' mission, too -- Duncan didn't even say anything).  Cailen had no heirs, for whatever reason, and Duncan, being the cold-hearted savvy bastard he was (he recruits the Cousland noble on his/her father's dying breath, after all, takes some stones), undoubtedly saw a great deal of use in Alistair.  Duncan just didn't plan on getting betrayed by Loghain, since it had been Loghain's battle plan all along.

[Boss Fog]

LynxAQ wrote...

Hound of Culain wrote...

PinkShira wrote...

I don't think not wanting to lead is the same as being a wimp.

Yeah. There seem to be a lot of people around who think "Strong-willed and Courageous" = "Likes telling other people what to do". Truth is, Alistair's not a leader, but he's not a pushover either, as the Landsmeet shows. Sure, that incident along with a few other things also shows that he's somewhat immature, and because he's so open he sometimes lets that immaturity show to everyone.

But people who say he's a wimp just because he recognises someone else who's better to lead, and he's whiny because if you ask him how he is, he tells you, seem to be using a strange paradigm to judge other people.

Landsmeet does nothing but expose Alistair for what he really is. A coward with dis-illusioned view on Grey Wardens, and only out for his personal vengeance. He even suddenly wants the crown if you refuse to kill Loghain just so he can have Loghain executed. No other reason.

Tho tbh, considering the very cringeworthy Anora charge speech, I am starting to reconsider just keeping Alistair alive and killing Loghain these days. That speech is aweful... when Anora does it. I cringed.

Right because inviting a war criminal like Loghain into the order makes perfect sense.  Oh it's ok that you've tried to kill all of us, you let our king die, tried to sell elves as slaves, you hired a blood mage to poison Arl Eamon and let Howe do whatever the hell he wants after he murdered the Cousland family.  There comes a point when someone isn't worth having by your side, not by any means.   I can't imagine why Alistair is sooo against having Loghain become a Grey Warden.  I spit on Loghain's corpse everytime (RP) after I lob off his head and then glare at Riordin for suggesting such trash be invited to the order.  I agree with Alistair 110% at that moment in the game, sorry but I couldn't disagree with you more.

[LynxAQ]

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

Right because inviting a war criminal like Loghain into the order makes perfect sense.  Oh it's ok that you've tried to kill all of us, you let our king die, tried to sell elves as slaves, you hired a blood mage to poison Arl Eamon and let Howe do whatever the hell he wants after he murdered the Cousland family.  There comes a point when someone isn't worth having by your side, not by any means.   I can't imagine why Alistair is sooo against having Loghain become a Grey Warden.  I spit on Loghain's corpse everytime (RP) after I lob off his head and then glare at Riordin for suggesting such trash be invited to the order.  I agree with Alistair 110% at that moment in the game, sorry but I couldn't disagree with you more.

You do realise that Duncan was a murderer and thief before he became a warden yeah? Wardens do whatever it takes to win. There where only 3 wardens in fereldon at that moment when you choose whether or not to change Loghain into a GW. Rioldan and so would of Duncan, saw the chance to get another GW and what better thing than having Fereldons greatest General a Grey Warden? Remember most the public / soldiers dont know what has transpired at the Landsmeet and what Loghain did. Having the great general at your side in the final charge against the arch demon is a huge moral booster for the soldiers. Moral is a powerful weopon. This is what Alistair fails to realise and see because hes to blinded by vengeance.

And at the end you realise the blight / you the PC and everything else ment nothing to Alistair. He was out for his personal vengeance all that time an when you refuse to give it to him he abandons you. He must of known what he was going to do the moment you had Loghain cornered. Alistair is a childish fool.

Alistair is also blinded by this fool notion that being a GW is a honour etc when that is the furtherest thing from the truth in all reality. Like I said. Alistair is disillusoned and has this bad habit of idolising and putting people on pedistals and then being blinded to everything else.

[Thor Rand Al]

Wow I can't believe this topics still going lol... Ok I apologize maybe wimp wasn't the right word, maybe a lil too sensitive???  I'm not bashing Alistair, all I'm saying is that with him being the future King he needs a lil more gusto n less crying about things he can't fix... Like I said before, I understand he's had a hard life.  I'm not baseing this on just 1 play through, I'm on my 5th time playing. I made Alistair King, made him marry Anora, I made the ultimate sacrifice, I became King with Anora, now I think Alistairs gonna do the ultimate sacrifice now that I've done it lol.  The only thing I haven't done is taken Loghain in my group (even though I know I'm gonna have to to get that 1 achievement n I just don't like Loghain period), my friendship with Alistair is too strong that I can't do that too him n I haven't played as a female yet. 
Alistair is what every woman dreams of having in a man including me (yes I'm female lol) but I draw the line at sewing his shirt dang it n I might not want to have him cook though, that didn't sound too healthy his discription of cooking lamb stew to Leliana, ewww lmao.

[nos_astra]

Thor Rand Al wrote...
I'm not bashing Alistair, all I'm saying is that with him being the future King he needs a lil more gusto n less crying about things he can't fix... 

Why should he be any different? Any epilogue with him being king states that he does a good job at it, an even better job if your PC had a "good" influence on him, making him a bit less idealistic and a wee bit more selfish. What would you want to change?

Modifié par klarabella, 18 décembre 2009 - 09:03 .

[Basher of Glory]

A person might be a genius, a general of the millenium or an artist of the universe. Beyond a certain point none of these gifts sould prevent such a person from punishment.

I really don't understand, how so many people would give the alleged greatest public enemy another chance to betray his people - including the wardens - again (not talking about RP-reasons here; that's something different)!



It was so often stated that this man WAS a great general in a war some decades ago. Even his selfish, power-crazed daughter calls him a crazy man. Is that man really what Ferelden needs? A madman, who saw his best days long times ago?

Alistair is blamed to be a dreamer, who has a somewhat idealized picture of the Wardens. In some conversations he laments about the fact, that the Wardens don't get the respect they received in former times.

He talks with the PC about restoring the Warden's reputation after the blight. Could it be possible, that the "dreamer" had a VISION about HIS order? A vision to make things better, a vision of reverting elementary mistakes of the past to make the Wardens again the first force against demons and blights for all future times?

Wouldn't this vision perfectly fit into the plan to keep Ferelden save for now and against all upcomming threads?



And now another "pragmatic" Warden comes along and proposes to give a sociopathic scumbag of a madman "a chance".

I just regret that there was no option to tell Riordan that he is very close to loose his head just FOR THINKING about that.



In my eyes Alistair was nothing but consequent in regard of his own visions, in regard of Ferelden's security and in regard of what is RIGHT.

[robertthebard]

pudi0072000 wrote...

If Alistair's rep is high enough when you give him the 'I don't know who you are anymore' line and apologize later, he accepts it and you don't lose more rep for it, although I can't remember if you get a positive for it or not. The way your PC acts (or gives him gifts) affects how he reacts. Don't be an ass and he usually won't either

This is part and parcel of the problem, however.  Why should I have to apologize to Alistair for Alistair lying to me?  Afterall, if he'd been forthcoming with this information from the start, then it wouldn't have blown up in his face.  HIs reaction, however, is, even when you try to apologize, to be an ass.  To the point where, as I pointed out earlier, "Or you could just be an ass" was one of the options in my responses.  Since I don't feel like I have to lick his boots for approval, I chose that option, lost 15 points of approval, and the relationship.  If there had been an option to kick him out of the party camp at that point, I would have taken it.
Need to learn to spell...

Modifié par robertthebard, 18 décembre 2009 - 09:55 .

[ejoslin]

Alistair was the king in name only. Arl Eamon held the true power. Why else did he abdicate Radcliff in favor of his brother when Alistair was made king? Alistair was nothing but a pawn in the political game. The PC can also be the string puller -- Alistair brings nothing but his bloodline to the table.



Alistair showed a weak character in many ways in his relationship with a female PC. Even when he finally asks to spend the night with her, it has nothing to do with loving her, but wanting to throw caution to the wind, and then wanting to end it (but not having the nerve) afterwards. I got positive rep from him when my human noble broke it off with him when discussing the future if anyone doubts that he actually wanted to break it off for that reason. He also was unable to see the PC for what she actually was -- he said my noble dwarf was not noble, he was shocked over my city elf being betrothed before him (though she had told Bann Teagan in front of him); he didn't even recognize my human noble as being suitable as a queen until seeing the reaction she got from the nobles and the landsmeet. I quit being a Alistair fangirl after my first play through, though.



All that said, I don't think Alistair was a wimp. But Anora nailed it when she said his qualities were admirable for a man, but not a king.