223 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


You can ask him that once and he lies to you. Yes, because you don't need to know. You dont' have some divine right to that information, regardless of what you might think.

The fact that Loghain has been killing everyone who has a claim on the throne really does give Alistair an obligation to let you know that he is on that list.

Alistair acknowledges at Flemeth's hut that Loghain's reason is probably for the throne.  If the king wasn't safe, the king's heir certainly isn't either.

Modifié par ejoslin, 19 décembre 2009 - 07:33 .

[robertthebard]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

What a load of horses****!
Alistair never tells you "I hope earl Eamon dies so I can keep my secret". You're so full of it it isn't even funny.
And now you try to steer conversation fro mtht by "accidently" misunderstanding and switching to the "afraid he's be treated differently" bit. Cute.[/quote]

Apples and oranges much? Do you evne bother to read what I said?

You're using Eamons reasoning and knowledge on amtters to show everyone what Alistar should have done, like that knowledge is hin. It is not.

Because he thought it might be the right time to tell you? Because he thought it might become an issue.
The fact remains that you don't know for a fact why he didn't tell you till then. He tells you why, but you choose to disbelive it and have some conspiracy theories about him wanting Eamon dead instead. [/quote]

I'm stopping here, because he does tell you in game.  Evidently there is some disconnect between you and facts as they are presented.  He tells you exactly why he didn't tell you.  Because he was afraid.  He was afraid you'd look at him differently, and he was afraid that he'd be forced to take up the crown.  Again, you can choose to ignore this as you please, but, as Morrigan told your hero, "The truth does not simply go away".  Regarding the "conspiracy theory", that was a summation made by me, with an indication as such.  You, however, have now latched onto this as drowning man will a piece of wreckage to keep himself afloat.  Do us all a favor, and let go of it.

[quote]Only in your little dillusional head.
It's not my credibiltiy you should be concerned with here. It's doing just fine.[/quote]

So your position is that he could stage a coup to remove Maric from the throne, or Cailin?  As I said, you're starting to get desperate here.  Barring the line about him wishing Eamon dead so that he would never have to tell anyone, which I admitted when I wrote it wasn't from him, everything else I have posted has come from ingame dialog.  So, just as a curiosity, where are you pulling your information from, or do we want to know?  *Gets up to go wash hands.*

[quote]So he didn't tell you immediately. Again, so what?
What part of "not telling ones deepest secrests that oyu promised to keep a secret to people you've only known for a short while" exactly makes him a terrible human being?[/quote]

The fact that the information could indeed be useful to achieve even just his primary goal, getting to Loghain.  If stopping the Blight was his primary goal, then nothing you did prior to killing the Archdemon would have run him off.  After all, the Blight isn't over until the Archdemon is dead.  Now go ahead and rationalize about how he raised an army.  He didn't do it.

[quote]Again ignoring it. Will you quite doging allready and aswer it? Or is looking a few posts back too strenious for you?

I say again - if you had NO knowledge of explosives and were brought up to have as little do do with explosives as possible, and then one day you're asked to disarm a bomb - are you a coward if you want someoen more experienced to do it insted of you?

If you answer NO and still claim Alistair is a coward, then you're a grade A hypoicrite.[/quote]

Again, your analogy is bad, I can disarm a bomb.  You are asking me a real life question, and unfortunately for you, you don't seem to be any more connected to real life than you are video games.  I have real life experience with disarming bombs.  Do you think I was born with this, that it makes it relevant to the conversation?  I was not born knowing how to disarm bombs, but I did learn it.  Alistair was born the son of a King, whether he knows how to be King or not, he can learn it, and he does learn it if he doesn't storm out of the Landsmeet to go get drunk, whether you spare Loghain or not, unless he winds up dead.  So again, your analogy is bad.  I disarmed my first device before I really knew how.  How does this make me a hypocrit anyway?  My knowledge of explosives has absolutely 0 to do with Alistair being a King, and even if I did blow it, and blow myself up, the worst thing that will happen to Alistair is his one manly feeling will get hurt.  Again, that's his line, from the game.



[quote]
Actually, the only way one can justify Alistair running off is metagaming.  The situation is bleak, and the Blight is in full force, and one of the people that's supposed to stop it, who has harped on how much he likes being a Grey Warden for almost the entire game, decides to abandon his country, and his supposed friend.  Again, with friends like that, who needs enemies.[/quote]

[quote]The situation isn't bleak. When he leaves, the situation is the best is was since Ostagar - in no small part due to his efforts. And IIRC, he leaves Denerim, not the country itself.
that last line - I'm quite sure Alistair would say the smae about your PC.[/quote]

Say what?  According to my map, the Blight has spread clear to the North Road by the Landsmeet.  This is further proof of you just grasping for straws at an excuse to justify a Grey Warden fleeing from the scene of a Blight.  Again, your grasp of ingame concepts are limited at best, and this more than likely does extend to real life.  Especially since you keep trying to prove differently.  As Morrigan says, "If one needs to ask the question...".



[quote]
The darkspawn were gunning for Ferelden.  It doesn't matter what part of it, because they're not going to take Redcliffe and stop.  They are going to take all of Ferelden.  So how does having no idea that they are heading to Denerim factor in to "It's ok Alistair, you can go have your hissy fit whereever it is that you end up when you split".  Whereever it was, he made damn well sure it wasn't Ferelden.  Yeah, he was a great hero.  The rest of us, that risked life and limb to stop the Blight are just footnotes in the history that is Alistair...[/qutoe]

[quote]uctio Ad Absurdum won't help you here.
He killed hunders of darkspawn on the way and helped secure armies to fight the Blight and stabilise the country. That is not enough for you?
Sure, he could have also fought by your side, and it would have indeed be a better choice, but he didn't. So what?
The point is that he did more to defend Ferelden than practicly any other man in Ferelden, save the PC.[/quote]

Until he got his little feeling hurt, and abandoned everybody.  Loghain did more for a free Ferelden than anybody alive at this point.  Using your logic here, there's absolutely no reason to kill him.  Wait, that's not exactly true, your hero wants him dead, and that's the only reason you need.  Also, this doesn't answer the question.  How does him not knowing they are going to Denerim factor in to "It's cool, runaway like a 10 year old"?

[quote]Must he also praticipate in the last battle in the front lines too? Note that we also have no idea where he went right after the landsmeet and where he was during the attack on Denerim. If the darkspawn where everywhere, chances are he did fight them on that same day.[/quote]

He is the one that has glamorized being a Grey Warden, he is the one that swears to the PC that he will never leave Ferelden.  He made the choice to commit to stopping the Blight, along side me at Flemeth's hut.  I am expected to fight the Blight no matter what, so, barring the fact that the game had to be written this way, there is no reason that he shouldn't be right there with me, or sitting on the throne, instead of boozing it up in some tavern outside of Ferelden.

[quote]The PC tramples and dances on everything he holds dear, so he sez "****s you!" and goes away, but leaves oyu with everything you need to stop the blight. So no, that doens't make him a bad person or a coward. Not at all.[/quote]

Convenient double standard here.  He trompled all over my PC's feelings by lying to her about who he was, which is perfectly acceptable in your eyes, you've already admitted as much.  He's allowed to do whatever he wants, including, but not limited to lying to the PC, being an ass about the PC apologizing to him for him lying to her, and then throwing her reaction to that back in her face, but Maker forbid she might do something he disagrees with, that's a direct violation of the Alistair Fan Club rules.

[quote]This is all baseless conjecture. You don't know any of that as a fact and you refuse to admitt that. Face it allready. How can you know if reinforcements can't come in time if oyu dont' know when and where the battle will take place in the first place???[/quote]

[/quote]
Actually, the information that you decided to snip is pretty much fact.  There were no other Grey Wardens in Denerim.  From the Landsmeet, Anora tells you that everybody is going to Redcliffe.  So, if you sent runners to gather the Orlesians, would you send them to Redcliffe, or maybe you'd send them to the Brecilian Forest?  You want reinforcements where you are going to be, so that you can have them.  When it would have been prudent to send out runners, immediately after the Landsmeet, they would have been going to Redcliffe, along with everybody else.  This is also in the game, and a fact that you'd like to ignore because it doesn't fit into your "Alistair is so noble" delusion.  You don't go to Denerim until you figure out that oops, our information was wrong, and the Archdemon has shown itself, and it's heading to Denerim".  This is also in game, not conjecture.  So if, if runners had been sent asking the Orlesians to come to Redcliffe when the Landsmeet ended, more runners will now need to be sent telling them to go to Denerim. 

At this point, there is no way they can get there in time, because you can't even get there in time to stop the initial onslaught.  In fact, Denerim is pretty much lost by the time you get there.  You have to take it back.  The fact that there were no Orlesians there is pretty obvious, and btw, you're the one that brought them into this Alistair bails, but it's all good fantasy story to help ease your own conscience about it, maybe.  I'm not sure.  However, they are months away.  Even if it's just weeks, you have days.  So explain to me how they are going to be much help, unless they are going to aid with the reconstruction.

[robertthebard]

ejoslin wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


You can ask him that once and he lies to you. Yes, because you don't need to know. You dont' have some divine right to that information, regardless of what you might think.

The fact that Loghain has been killing everyone who has a claim on the throne really does give Alistair an obligation to let you know that he is on that list.

Alistair acknowledges at Flemeth's hut that Loghain's reason is probably for the throne.  If the king wasn't safe, the king's heir certainly isn't either.

This is also true.  He knowingly puts your life in more danger by withholding information that is vital to what you are trying to accomplish.  However, I understand that you won't accept this either.  It's not like we can verify the Couslands, or Arl Eamon.  We pretty much know Cailin is dead though...We also know how he got that way.  The whys are a bit of a mystery, however, taking it at face value, with the people with the most immediate claims to the throne dead, or sick, yeah, it's kind of a big deal.

[DPSSOC]

robertthebard wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The fact that Loghain has been killing everyone who has a claim on the throne really does give Alistair an obligation to let you know that he is on that list.

Alistair acknowledges at Flemeth's hut that Loghain's reason is probably for the throne.  If the king wasn't safe, the king's heir certainly isn't either.

This is also true.  He knowingly puts your life in more danger by withholding information that is vital to what you are trying to accomplish.  However, I understand that you won't accept this either.  It's not like we can verify the Couslands, or Arl Eamon.  We pretty much know Cailin is dead though...We also know how he got that way.  The whys are a bit of a mystery, however, taking it at face value, with the people with the most immediate claims to the throne dead, or sick, yeah, it's kind of a big deal.

I see your point, but as a Grey Warden Loghain already wants you dead.  Now he may want Alistair dead more, but it's not like you were perfectly fine and then oh no Alistair came along.  It actually makes more sense that Alistair doesn't tell you straight away cause if he did he runs the risk of you selling him out to Loghain to save your own hide.  Call him a coward if you want but he's not stupid.

[nos_astra]

Since Loghain was willing to feed all Grey Wardens to a darkspawn raid, it's a minor issue why he may be dangerous for the two of them. Morrigan is an apostate anyway. The PC may have some issues with the "authorities" as well. Alistair being a royal bastard isn't such a big deal when they are heading of to Lothering. Soon they get to know that Grey Wardens now are outlaws. How long does it take from Flemeths hut to Lothering to Redcliffe? A month? Two weeks? Some days? I don't blame Alistair that the king thing needs some time to kick in.



I'm such a softie. :-)

[ejoslin]

I wonder if Loghain would have wanted the Gray Wardens dead so badly had Alistair not been one of the two survivors. After all, Loghain knew when he saw the beacon lit that despite his sending the darkspawn to the tower that Alistair had survived. Loghain did not take the PC as a threat for sure. Alistair's reason for not telling was personal -- he realized as soon as it was pointed out to him that he was wrong not to tell you to begin with. He never even considered the implications.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ejoslin wrote...
The fact that Loghain has been killing everyone who has a claim on the throne really does give Alistair an obligation to let you know that he is on that list.

Alistair acknowledges at Flemeth's hut that Loghain's reason is probably for the throne.  If the king wasn't safe, the king's heir certainly isn't either.

Whos' everyone? Cailan? That's 1 person. And Alistair doesn't even know if Loghain knows about him. If he wanted him dead Loghain could have asked for Alistair to go with the king.

I'm stopping here, because he does tell you in game.  Evidently there
is some disconnect between you and facts as they are presented.  He
tells you exactly why he didn't tell you.  Because he was afraid.  He
was afraid you'd look at him differently, and he was afraid that he'd
be forced to take up the crown.  Again, you can choose to ignore this
as you please, but, as Morrigan told your hero, "The truth does not
simply go away".  Regarding the "conspiracy theory", that was a
summation made by me, with an indication as such.  You, however, have
now latched onto this as drowning man will a piece of wreckage to keep
himself afloat.  Do us all a favor, and let go of it.

He actually doesn't know if they'll try to make him king. He sez as much and really doesn't believe that a high possibility. What was his line? "What? You really think so? I mena...I hope not!" .. or something like that.
Let's not forget that Redcliffe is supposed to be a early area to vist and that Alistair does tell you when you go there.

I ask you again - what about that makes him a bad man or a coward? He tells you wheb HE decides the time is right.

The fact that the information could indeed be useful to achieve even
just his primary goal, getting to Loghain.  If stopping the Blight was
his primary goal, then nothing you did prior to killing the Archdemon
would have run him off.  After all, the Blight isn't over until the
Archdemon is dead.  Now go ahead and rationalize about how he raised an
army.  He didn't do it.

With just his birthright he can do squat. He needs support and protection for Eamon and hisword to back up his claim. There was nothing to gain from telling you early.

And yes. he did do it. Or should I say, the whole party did it. Your companions aren't just for show. I so love it when the player ego swells so much that anyone else must be allowed to get even a bit of glory.

Again, your analogy is bad, I can disarm a bomb.  You are asking me a
real life question, and unfortunately for you, you don't seem to be any
more connected to real life than you are video games.  I have real life
experience with disarming bombs.  Do you think I was born with this,
that it makes it relevant to the conversation?  I was not born knowing
how to disarm bombs, but I did learn it.  Alistair was born the son of
a King, whether he knows how to be King or not, he can learn it, and he
does learn it if he doesn't storm out of the Landsmeet to go get drunk,
whether you spare Loghain or not, unless he winds up dead.  So again,
your analogy is bad.  I disarmed my first device before I really knew
how.  How does this make me a hypocrit anyway?  My knowledge of
explosives has absolutely 0 to do with Alistair being a King, and even
if I did blow it, and blow myself up, the worst thing that will happen
to Alistair is his one manly feeling will get hurt.  Again, that's his
line, from the game.

No, your grasp of sanity is bad. Frak, why did I have to pick this example? You cna't be this obnoxius in reality, this is jsut some trollish attempt to irritate me, right?
How can you so constantly fail to see hte point? It's...baffling.

It doesn't amtter if it's disarming bombs, mixing dangerous chemicals, operating a nuclear reactor or leading a nation - the point is, an activity which requires knowledge (and hopefully experience) to do properly and if done poorly, can blow up not only in the face of the one who's doing it, but also other people.
Would you jump at an opportunity to do something liek that when asked, knowing that you have no knowledge or experience, and that practicly everyone you're whole life has been telling you not to do it and that you're not capable?
No sane man would.

Say what?  According to my map, the Blight has spread clear to the
North Road by the Landsmeet.  This is further proof of you just
grasping for straws at an excuse to justify a Grey Warden fleeing from
the scene of a Blight.  Again, your grasp of ingame concepts are
limited at best, and this more than likely does extend to real life. 
Especially since you keep trying to prove differently.  As Morrigan
says, "If one needs to ask the question...".

Is quoting lines that have nothing to do with the discussion in a feeble attempt to sound more knoledgable the only thing you're capable off?
I'm not saying (nor have I ever) that fleeing the blight is a good thing to do. Don't put words in my mouth.
What I'm saying is htat he has a right to quite the party adn even the Grey Wardens.
Alistair can quit being a Grey Warden if he so wants and he's done enough for the country already.
If I found my best pal and CO is a utter moron and douchebag and the whole company is a utter dissapoinment, I'd leave too.
He's just one man. Do you really think his departure can impact the future of Ferelden? Did anyone that that point (except for Rhiodan)? No. Frankly, at that point he isn't really needed. You got a replacement for him (loghain), he did his part in raising the armies... his logic here is sound. You don't want him (he made it  clear it's either him or Loghain), you don't need him and he's sick and tired of everything.He's a man pushed over the edge and makes a bad decisions, but he's not a bad person. Far from it.

Convenient double standard here.  He trompled all over my PC's feelings
by lying to her about who he was, which is perfectly acceptable in your
eyes, you've already admitted as much.  He's allowed to do whatever he
wants, including, but not limited to lying to the PC, being an ass
about the PC apologizing to him for him lying to her, and then throwing
her reaction to that back in her face, but Maker forbid she might do
something he disagrees with, that's a direct violation of the Alistair
Fan Club rules.

No double standards. Different situation, different things.
Because not telling you something you dont' deem important is jsut as bad as trying to force somebody to work with someone who killed his family. Yeah, totally the same.


And all of that blabber about Orlais and distance is just that - blabber. Not facts that your PC could use. Again, you're using metagame knowledge to justify in-game actions and decisions.

[Lotion Soronarr]

robertthebard wrote...
This is also true.  He knowingly puts your life in more danger by withholding information that is vital to what you are trying to accomplish.  However, I understand that you won't accept this either.  It's not like we can verify the Couslands, or Arl Eamon.  We pretty much know Cailin is dead though...We also know how he got that way.  The whys are a bit of a mystery, however, taking it at face value, with the people with the most immediate claims to the throne dead, or sick, yeah, it's kind of a big deal.

MORE danger? There's allready a bounty on Grey Wardens, just how more danger can you possibly be in? What would change with that peace of info? NOTHING.

[Medhia Nox]

Which playthrough turns Alistair into a "Hero"?

I have only played through once. So I'm looking for info.

1) Put Alistair on the throne. Being a King is not being a Hero. He doens't "Save Ferelden" by being a king. Because either my PC died.. or we did the Morrigan baby thing. Either way.. Alistair isn't any more of a hero than the "Enchantment!" dwarf at camp (always forget the poor dwarf's name.)

2) Alistair dies. I'll give this one a maybe. But killing someone before they have a chance to be a coward.. doesn't mean they didn't have the possibility of being one.

---

The point is.. even if you don't save Loghain. There is ONLY the possibility of Alistair deserting the Wardens. There is NEVER a possibility.. no matter what you do.. that he will stick by you like a friend.. and a Warden.. and a soldier.. and a GOOD MAN should.

So.. he either 1) Gets his way and you never experience his cowardice. 2) Becomes a deserter who is more guilty than the guy in the cage at Ostagar.

----

Now, that is VERY well written. A character that cannot go every direction just to please the player.. he IS realistically portrayed (as much as would be possible)... but Alistair has the heart of a spoiled brat.. and a coward. If he does not get his way.. he betrays you. Period. There's really no argument.

The lowest level of hell is reserved for betrayers.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 19 décembre 2009 - 08:41 .

[ejoslin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
This is also true.  He knowingly puts your life in more danger by withholding information that is vital to what you are trying to accomplish.  However, I understand that you won't accept this either.  It's not like we can verify the Couslands, or Arl Eamon.  We pretty much know Cailin is dead though...We also know how he got that way.  The whys are a bit of a mystery, however, taking it at face value, with the people with the most immediate claims to the throne dead, or sick, yeah, it's kind of a big deal.

MORE danger? There's allready a bounty on Grey Wardens, just how more danger can you possibly be in? What would change with that peace of info? NOTHING.

Because Alistair being heir to the throne gives Loghain a personal stake -- a much higher stake than just wanting gray wardens dead.  There's a huge difference between Loghain wanting them dead for abstract reasons and Loghain NEEDING them dead for personal reasons.  Even Alistair acknowledged this; he says something to the effect it never occurred to him that it was important after the PC asks him if Loghain actually knows.  Plus, since it obviously would be a factor in what is going on, the leader does need all information in order to make decisions.

[Rainen89]

Loghain killed one person, there were not multiple people going for the claim, the only reason he poisoned Arl Eamon was because he didn't want him voicing support for someone other than Anora. The only reason why Alistair even bothers telling you is because he thinks it might come up when we talk to Arl Eamon, until then he won't tell you, you only know that he's a bastard and Arl eamon played surrogate daddy to him.

Lastly, it doesn't really put you in danger, Loghain's attempts to go after you had to do with Howe's manipulation about Grey wardens trying to endanger him, not you must kill Alistair because he's Maric's bastard. You are in no danger because he's the heir, you're in danger because you're wardens.

Also, please don't think Alistair would've even bothered trying to go for the throne if not for Eamon and the PC. Even hardening him he doesn't like it until you've actually made him king. He hates responsbility, he hates having to deal with the burden of being responsible for another person's life. There's no way in hell he would've even gone for the throne had we not forced him into the situation, Loghain knows this, if it wasn't for Howe we wouldn't even have Loghain trying to kill us, but again that's due to being Wardens, nothing else.



Lastly the above poster is right, if Loghain truly wanted Alistair gone he would've sent him with the army that was decimated, not the tower.

[Rainen89]

ejoslin wrote...
Because Alistair being heir to the throne gives Loghain a personal stake -- a much higher stake than just wanting gray wardens dead.  There's a huge difference between Loghain wanting them dead for abstract reasons and Loghain NEEDING them dead for personal reasons.  Even Alistair acknowledged this; he says something to the effect it never occurred to him that it was important after the PC asks him if Loghain actually knows.  Plus, since it obviously would be a factor in what is going on, the leader does need all information in order to make decisions.

No, there's a reason why the cutscenes talk about "Grey wardens" not Alistair, not the heir to the throne opposing your rule, it's about being a grey warden. Hell, Loghain himself is confused as to why Eamon even calls for a landsmeet in the first place. He didn't think Alistair would be put forth as king, he only thought that Grey wardens endangered his nation because of their ties to Orlais and because he didn't believe they were necesssary to end a blight. Also having Tim curray whisper sweet nothings to him didn't help matters either. The point is that he was not trying to kill you because Alistair was an heir, he tried to kill you because Howe convinced him that wardens were a threat.

[robertthebard]

DPSSOC wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The fact that Loghain has been killing everyone who has a claim on the throne really does give Alistair an obligation to let you know that he is on that list.

Alistair acknowledges at Flemeth's hut that Loghain's reason is probably for the throne.  If the king wasn't safe, the king's heir certainly isn't either.

This is also true.  He knowingly puts your life in more danger by withholding information that is vital to what you are trying to accomplish.  However, I understand that you won't accept this either.  It's not like we can verify the Couslands, or Arl Eamon.  We pretty much know Cailin is dead though...We also know how he got that way.  The whys are a bit of a mystery, however, taking it at face value, with the people with the most immediate claims to the throne dead, or sick, yeah, it's kind of a big deal.

I see your point, but as a Grey Warden Loghain already wants you dead.  Now he may want Alistair dead more, but it's not like you were perfectly fine and then oh no Alistair came along.  It actually makes more sense that Alistair doesn't tell you straight away cause if he did he runs the risk of you selling him out to Loghain to save your own hide.  Call him a coward if you want but he's not stupid.

Damn it man, think they could add that in sometime?  I never really thought about that, but you know, it could be handy.  "Ohhh Lohgain, yoo hooooo..."

[DPSSOC]

I suppose they could, but let's face it Loghain would betray you you'd be ambushed and Alistair would most likely leave or try to kill you.

[ejoslin]

Alistair has been kept a secret. Loghain would be an idiot to tell everyone that there was an heir, and as crazy as he was, he wasn't stupid. He was already sending people out kill Alistair and the PC before Howe realized and told him that some Gray Wardens had survived.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it. But it makes no real sense that Loghain would be that worried about a couple of Gray Warden recruits. It does make sense that he would be worried about Alistair being alive, however. He didn't think the PC as a threat, and said as much after the PC beats him in a duel.

Modifié par ejoslin, 19 décembre 2009 - 10:00 .

[robertthebard]

DPSSOC wrote...

I suppose they could, but let's face it Loghain would betray you you'd be ambushed and Alistair would most likely leave or try to kill you.

Probably so.  It would suck having to kill Alistair before the Landsmeet...

[DPSSOC]

robertthebard wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

I suppose they could, but let's face it Loghain would betray you you'd be ambushed and Alistair would most likely leave or try to kill you.

Probably so.  It would suck having to kill Alistair before the Landsmeet...

Well let's not get ahead of ourselves they'd probably give you the option to calm him down with a [Persuade] line.  Then you'd just have a real low approval rating and he'd probably refuse to kill the Archdemon if you didn't do the ritual.

[DariusKalera]

ejoslin wrote...

Alistair has been kept a secret. Loghain would be an idiot to tell everyone that there was an heir, and as crazy as he was, he wasn't stupid. He was already sending people out kill Alistair and the PC before Howe realized and told him that some Gray Wardens had survived.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it. But it makes no real sense that Loghain would be that worried about a couple of Gray Warden recruits. It does make sense that he would be worried about Alistair being alive, however. He didn't think the PC as a threat, and said as much after the PC beats him in a duel.

I do not think Loghain actually knew that Alistair was next in line.

The people that are sent out to look for the PC and Alistair are given the PC's description, not Alistair's.  If Loghain knew, then Alistair would most certainly be the one that he wanted dead and therefore, it would have been his likeness that was passed around.

The reason that he was hunting them was not becuase of Alistair specifically, but because he and the PC were the only survivors of Ostagar that could say what really happened.

[robertthebard]

DPSSOC wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

I suppose they could, but let's face it Loghain would betray you you'd be ambushed and Alistair would most likely leave or try to kill you.

Probably so.  It would suck having to kill Alistair before the Landsmeet...

Well let's not get ahead of ourselves they'd probably give you the option to calm him down with a [Persuade] line.  Then you'd just have a real low approval rating and he'd probably refuse to kill the Archdemon if you didn't do the ritual.

Ah ha, a way that Female PC's can actually die on the Archdemon if they still have Alistair.  I guess it's not all bad after all.

[sravenblood]

frostajulie wrote...

Just chiming in

Alistair is the most awesome character throughout the game, moral, adorable and just too good to be true.

No seriously, too good to be true.

He says early in the game he won't abandon Fereldon. Then he does. On the eve of battle. He abandons Fereldon, the Grey wardens and his friend/lover to death at the hands of the Darkspawn horde.

He is a coward. Plain and simple a total douche coward. If he had stayed to fight the darkspawn it would have been fine for him to hate me hate loghain hate what we had done to the rep of the great grey wardens. But he bailed like a cowardly tool. His actions are indefensible. Its not that he can turn his feelings on and off like a light switch that makes him suck, though it certainly contributes to the fact, but the fact that he just leaves the battle field. Yeah coward all the way.

Someone in the thread said he joined willingly and had a right to leave as well. Bullplop! We all know per ser Jory that there is one way and one way only to leave the Grey wardens and that is as a corpse. I kind of wish the epilogie had been AListair was found drunk in a tavern by a Grey warden hit squad and promptly executed for desertion.

Better yet I want the option to pull a Duncan and run him through with my sword when he threatens to leave, complete with the cut scene where I tearfully apologize to his ear as I illicitely smell his neck before pulling my sword from his body and shoving his warm corpse to the ground.

You are 180 percent correct. I so wanted to kill his coward ass! End of Thread as this ^ poster can not be debatted against.

[MassEffect762]

He's a good guy, maybe alittle too good for his own sake but a wimp he is not. He is a true warrior and is worthy of respect.



More like a man-child that never had a father to raise him.(I know I'm a bastard myself)

[Bagenholt]

sravenblood wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

Just chiming in

Alistair is the most awesome character throughout the game, moral, adorable and just too good to be true.

No seriously, too good to be true.

He says early in the game he won't abandon Fereldon. Then he does. On the eve of battle. He abandons Fereldon, the Grey wardens and his friend/lover to death at the hands of the Darkspawn horde.

He is a coward. Plain and simple a total douche coward. If he had stayed to fight the darkspawn it would have been fine for him to hate me hate loghain hate what we had done to the rep of the great grey wardens. But he bailed like a cowardly tool. His actions are indefensible. Its not that he can turn his feelings on and off like a light switch that makes him suck, though it certainly contributes to the fact, but the fact that he just leaves the battle field. Yeah coward all the way.

Someone in the thread said he joined willingly and had a right to leave as well. Bullplop! We all know per ser Jory that there is one way and one way only to leave the Grey wardens and that is as a corpse. I kind of wish the epilogie had been AListair was found drunk in a tavern by a Grey warden hit squad and promptly executed for desertion.

Better yet I want the option to pull a Duncan and run him through with my sword when he threatens to leave, complete with the cut scene where I tearfully apologize to his ear as I illicitely smell his neck before pulling my sword from his body and shoving his warm corpse to the ground.

You are 180 percent correct. I so wanted to kill his coward ass! End of Thread as this ^ poster can not be debatted against.

I know right? It got a bit raunchy at the end... I'm ready for a bit of heavy petting now hahaha.

[Spartansfan8888]

If Alistair was a great leader and a model Warden you wouldn't have the freedom to make the choices you do you'd just be following him, therefore you have to be more BA than him

[frostajulie]

Bagenholt wrote...

sravenblood wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

Just chiming in

Alistair is the most awesome character throughout the game, moral, adorable and just too good to be true.

No seriously, too good to be true.

He says early in the game he won't abandon Fereldon. Then he does. On the eve of battle. He abandons Fereldon, the Grey wardens and his friend/lover to death at the hands of the Darkspawn horde.

He is a coward. Plain and simple a total douche coward. If he had stayed to fight the darkspawn it would have been fine for him to hate me hate loghain hate what we had done to the rep of the great grey wardens. But he bailed like a cowardly tool. His actions are indefensible. Its not that he can turn his feelings on and off like a light switch that makes him suck, though it certainly contributes to the fact, but the fact that he just leaves the battle field. Yeah coward all the way.

Someone in the thread said he joined willingly and had a right to leave as well. Bullplop! We all know per ser Jory that there is one way and one way only to leave the Grey wardens and that is as a corpse. I kind of wish the epilogie had been AListair was found drunk in a tavern by a Grey warden hit squad and promptly executed for desertion.

Better yet I want the option to pull a Duncan and run him through with my sword when he threatens to leave, complete with the cut scene where I tearfully apologize to his ear as I illicitely smell his neck before pulling my sword from his body and shoving his warm corpse to the ground.

You are 180 percent correct. I so wanted to kill his coward ass! End of Thread as this ^ poster can not be debatted against.

I know right? It got a bit raunchy at the end... I'm ready for a bit of heavy petting now hahaha.

Not meant to be raunchy it is what Duncan did to Ser Jory.