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[specter7237]

Korimaru wrote...
So getting the king killed, not to mention thousands of others that were killed due to the darkspawn, village plundered and pillaged and so on is all for the country. I highly doubt that Howe had that much influence on him, as a matter of fact it was Loghain who partly influenced him. It was simply personal greed that drove Loghain, that and ignorance. If the grey wardens were unsuccesful to open his eyes at the landsmeet, the blight would have been inevitable. So much for our hero Loghain. I actually enjoyed the sight of Alistair killing him.

Logain is anything but greedy.  Extremely misguided yes, but everything he did was for Ferelden first and foremost.

[Galad22]

specter7237 wrote...

Logain is anything but greedy.  Extremely misguided yes, but everything he did was for Ferelden first and foremost.

I am sure most tyrants and dictators say the same thing, they may even mean it.

Yet thanks to them too their country eventually gets almost destroyed or at least suffers horribly. Thanks to Loghain Ferelden is almost completely overrun and destroyed by darkspawn.

And you know what it is all Loghains fault.

How can everyone know that Alistair didn't do anything during the darkspawn. Is it stated in a
epilogue perhaps?

If he was in Denerim I am sure he fight there. Besides how could he even knew darkspawn were attacking Denerim if he wasn't there. We ourselves find out about it 2 days earlier.

Alistair might have gone where he thought darkspawn were, like we did. But he didn't found out in time that they were actually attacking denerim and didn't have time to get there soon enough.

Modifié par Galad22, 18 décembre 2009 - 08:07 .

[Recidiva]

specter7237 wrote...

Logain is anything but greedy.  Extremely misguided yes, but everything he did was for Ferelden first and foremost.

Only if "For Ferelden" means for the land itself.  Not for the people of Ferelden.  He was too busy slaughtering them to really have them in mind.

His idea of Ferelden, surely, but that had to do with the idea that the whole darkspawn invasion was just a cover for an Orlesian coup.  Which was...crazy.

[Freckles04]

I haven't played the game yet where I choose Loghain, because I like Alistair too much. I'll do it at one point, if only to see the content I haven't seen yet. But from a player perspective, I'm on Alistair's side.

I think he's perfectly justified in his hissy fit. Here's why:

Here's a man who has never belonged anywhere. He's been unwanted his entire life, and he's known it. His father didn't want him, his brother didn't know about him, Arl Eamon had him live in the stables, Isolde outright hated him. He despised the Chantry and certainly didn't fit in there, but he had no choice in being there or his path on becoming a templar. When he was offered a chance to escape, of course he took it. In his position, who wouldn't? I think Alistair would have taken any chance given to him to get out of the Chantry. Being a Grey Warden, in his eyes, was just a benefit.

A lot of people have pointed out that being a Grey Warden means doing what is necessary, no matter the cost, and Alistair doesn't fit those requirements. That's absolutely correct. Alistair colours the role through his own idealism. Being who he is, he would filter out the necessary evil the Wardens do, and see only the good. He finally belongs somewhere, after a lifetime of not, so that must mean that the Grey Wardens are honourable and good, because that's what he is. Or how he views himself, anyway. Regardless, in his mind, he's found a home for himself. Think about that for a minute. His dream in the Fade is all about belonging, having a home, fitting in. Going to see Goldanna is all about the same. That's all he's ever wanted. And when he's finally found it, with the Wardens, it's ripped away from him in an instant.

So he starts building a new home with the PC and the rest of the party. He discovers a new place to belong, particularly if he's in a romance with the PC. And then you get to the Landsmeet, where the option to recruit Loghain comes up. Basically, if you agree to it, you're demolishing the place Alistair's created for himself. Again. A man can only be so strong and take so many hits before he breaks. And that's why he breaks here: he belonged with the Grey Wardens, yes, but his true place is with you, and when you betray his thoughts and feelings and beliefs that he's expressed throughout the game, he realizes that, once more, he belongs nowhere. That one goal is torn away from him once more, and he can't take it.

Is it childish? Probably. Would it have been wonderful to see Alistair show up at the final battle in spite of his desertion? Absolutely. But he's not a superman. He's a man with deep, deep issues, not to mention a shattered and stomped-on heart, and I think that expecting him to shrug that all off is not something he's capable of.

[Xandurpein]

Recidiva wrote...

specter7237 wrote...

Logain is anything but greedy.  Extremely misguided yes, but everything he did was for Ferelden first and foremost.

Only if "For Ferelden" means for the land itself.  Not for the people of Ferelden.  He was too busy slaughtering them to really have them in mind.

His idea of Ferelden, surely, but that had to do with the idea that the whole darkspawn invasion was just a cover for an Orlesian coup.  Which was...crazy.

I see no contradiction here. Misguided people can do truly evil things believing they do it for a good cause. They still need to be stopped. There is no question in my mind that Loghain in his insantiy did what he thought was a good thing and it is equally obvious that his misguided intentions don't excuse his horrible acts. It may go some way towards explaining it, but he is still a criminal.


What I think can be open for debate about Loghain is how we should treat him if he is suddenly willing to recognize his own mistakes and wish to make amends. Do we believe him and if so do we allow him to try and make amends and in what form. Is allowing him to sacrifice his life to make amends for his crime a fair deal or not. just because I feel he is guilty of heineous crimes doesn't automatically means I need to be petty and vengeful when dealing with his punishment.

[nos_astra]

Cookies for Freckles04! I agree completely.

[Xandurpein]

Freckles04 wrote...

I haven't played the game yet where I choose Loghain, because I like Alistair too much. I'll do it at one point, if only to see the content I haven't seen yet. But from a player perspective, I'm on Alistair's side.

I think he's perfectly justified in his hissy fit. Here's why:

Here's a man who has never belonged anywhere. He's been unwanted his entire life, and he's known it. His father didn't want him, his brother didn't know about him, Arl Eamon had him live in the stables, Isolde outright hated him. He despised the Chantry and certainly didn't fit in there, but he had no choice in being there or his path on becoming a templar. When he was offered a chance to escape, of course he took it. In his position, who wouldn't? I think Alistair would have taken any chance given to him to get out of the Chantry. Being a Grey Warden, in his eyes, was just a benefit.

A lot of people have pointed out that being a Grey Warden means doing what is necessary, no matter the cost, and Alistair doesn't fit those requirements. That's absolutely correct. Alistair colours the role through his own idealism. Being who he is, he would filter out the necessary evil the Wardens do, and see only the good. He finally belongs somewhere, after a lifetime of not, so that must mean that the Grey Wardens are honourable and good, because that's what he is. Or how he views himself, anyway. Regardless, in his mind, he's found a home for himself. Think about that for a minute. His dream in the Fade is all about belonging, having a home, fitting in. Going to see Goldanna is all about the same. That's all he's ever wanted. And when he's finally found it, with the Wardens, it's ripped away from him in an instant.

So he starts building a new home with the PC and the rest of the party. He discovers a new place to belong, particularly if he's in a romance with the PC. And then you get to the Landsmeet, where the option to recruit Loghain comes up. Basically, if you agree to it, you're demolishing the place Alistair's created for himself. Again. A man can only be so strong and take so many hits before he breaks. And that's why he breaks here: he belonged with the Grey Wardens, yes, but his true place is with you, and when you betray his thoughts and feelings and beliefs that he's expressed throughout the game, he realizes that, once more, he belongs nowhere. That one goal is torn away from him once more, and he can't take it.

Is it childish? Probably. Would it have been wonderful to see Alistair show up at the final battle in spite of his desertion? Absolutely. But he's not a superman. He's a man with deep, deep issues, not to mention a shattered and stomped-on heart, and I think that expecting him to shrug that all off is not something he's capable of.

 I agree that it is perfectly understandable that he reacts the way he does. As I have stated before I wish there had been a bit more clues beforehand, but other than that no problem. I still do not feel that there is any conflict with this understanding and the fact that my character felt and choose differently. For me stopping the Blight was more important than vengeance. Whati s more, I think that the fact that he ends up a lone drunk if he quits means that ultiamtly he cannot defend his own actions himself. Those actions spell self-hatred to me.

[Recidiva]

Xandurpein wrote...

I see no contradiction here. Misguided people can do truly evil things believing they do it for a good cause. They still need to be stopped. There is no question in my mind that Loghain in his insantiy did what he thought was a good thing and it is equally obvious that his misguided intentions don't excuse his horrible acts. It may go some way towards explaining it, but he is still a criminal.

What I think can be open for debate about Loghain is how we should treat him if he is suddenly willing to recognize his own mistakes and wish to make amends. Do we believe him and if so do we allow him to try and make amends and in what form. Is allowing him to sacrifice his life to make amends for his crime a fair deal or not. just because I feel he is guilty of heineous crimes doesn't automatically means I need to be petty and vengeful when dealing with his punishment.

In my playthroughs, even when recruiting him....he does not exhibit true remorse.  He tosses off a few "Oh, well...maybe I shouldn't have done that" after he's been beaten near to death.  Not the same.

Every insane person has reasons.  Some of them are harmless.  He was an insane person in a position to abuse and murder, and he did exactly that.

True remorse happens BEFORE someone forces them into it.  Sure, I made him sacrifice himself, but I didn't consider it redemption in any way.  I considered it a "better you than me" death sentence.

Someone else wants to interpret that as an honor, go for it.  For me it was me sentencing him to something awful.  I'd have been fine if he died in the Joining also.  After that, given a chance to talk to him at camp, he just mocks you for being unable to kill him effectively.

That's not remorse.  I never saw actual remorse.  I saw "Meh.  Fine, so you've got me.  Now what."

[Vormaerin]

Alexus_VG wrote...

 I don't believe that all story decisions should be made to player please so long as they are to the benefit of telling a better story or creating more life like NPCs.

I think you are missing the point.   No one is arguing that he should have meekly accepted Loghain and stayed with the group.   But I (and others) do think that either Alistair was a childish fraud or it was out of character for him not to be one of the blue circle NPCs who fight in the final battle.

If killing Loghain is more important to him than killing the archdemon, I don't want him anywhere near me.  Ever.

He's welcome to believe I'm wrong about sparing Loghain and hate and disavow any friendship between us.  That's cool.   Quitting the fight, though...  not cool.

[Vormaerin]

Recidiva wrote...

That's not remorse.  I never saw actual remorse.  I saw "Meh.  Fine, so you've got me.  Now what."

True enough.   Loghain doesn't change his stripes.  That's one of the reasons he's trustworthy.   He's a fanatic patriot and willing to do anything to achieve his goals.   The only thing that changes at the Landsmeet is that he realizes he was wrong about being the only or best person to lead Ferelden to safety.

He'd still do the same things again if he was convinced they were the best course of action.   This isn't Star Wars.  You aren't getting Anakin Skywalker back from the Dark Side.  You are getting Darth Vader on your side for the final battle.

[Galad22]

Vormaerin wrote...

True enough.   Loghain doesn't change his stripes.  That's one of the reasons he's trustworthy.   He's a fanatic patriot and willing to do anything to achieve his goals.   The only thing that changes at the Landsmeet is that he realizes he was wrong about being the only or best person to lead Ferelden to safety.

He'd still do the same things again if he was convinced they were the best course of action.   This isn't Star Wars.  You aren't getting Anakin Skywalker back from the Dark Side.  You are getting Darth Vader on your side for the final battle.

That is exactly why he isn't trustworthy. He is traitor and regicide and doesn't feel any guilt about it. Even though king was his best friends only child.

[InvaderErl]

Although I think what Alistair does (in leaving) is wrong from the perspective of a Warden, I always kill Loghain as a Human Noble.

[Recidiva]

Vormaerin wrote...

True enough.   Loghain doesn't change his stripes.  That's one of the reasons he's trustworthy.   He's a fanatic patriot and willing to do anything to achieve his goals.   The only thing that changes at the Landsmeet is that he realizes he was wrong about being the only or best person to lead Ferelden to safety.

He'd still do the same things again if he was convinced they were the best course of action.   This isn't Star Wars.  You aren't getting Anakin Skywalker back from the Dark Side.  You are getting Darth Vader on your side for the final battle.

Being consistently wrong just means I can trust him to be consistently wrong.

How exactly was wiping out the King and his army, poisoning Arl Eamon and selling elves into slavery in any way...anything other than entirely self-serving and pumping up his personal power base?

He's not Darth Vader.  He's not even Dark Helmet.  He's garden variety looney toons.

[Vormaerin]

Galad22 wrote...

That is exactly why he isn't trustworthy. He is traitor and regicide and doesn't feel any guilt about it. Even though king was his best friends only child.

*sigh*   I hope you stay out of politics in your life.  You appear to be hopelessly ill suited for it.  

People are not trustworthy because you agree with their actions.  People are trustworthy because you can have confidence in how they will act.

As an aside, you might want to look up the definitions of words before you use them: Loghain is not a regicide.   He does betray Cailan, which is quite likely treason (though we don't actually know what oaths he swore.  For example, in the U.S., you don't swear allegiance to the President, you swear allegiance to the republic).

[Bibdy]

cglasgow wrote...

To everyone upset about Alistair's hissy fit about recruiting Loghain, just one thought:

How would your human noble character react to Alistair deciding that Arl Howe should be recruited into the Grey Wardens?

Trick question. Alistair is incapable of making decisions

[Baalzie]

Galad22 wrote...

That is exactly why he isn't trustworthy. He is traitor and regicide and doesn't feel any guilt about it. Even though king was his best friends only child.

And also the Child of his love who was forced to marry his best friend for politics' sake...
*read the books for more info on that subject*
BUT he DID do it not from personal greed, but because he was over the top mad and thought Orlais would annect them again if they were allowed to have even ONE Orlesian tread Fereldan land...
And he thoought Cailan would be the weak king who would let that happen... Hence letting him die at Ostagar...
IF he'd done what Loghain said and stayed away from the front lines, Loghain wouldn't have let him die, since he'd been with HIM instead of down with the Wardens....

But Cailans answers to him, and choices made there made Loggie snap...
And in HIS mind he was being true to Maric, not letting his friends son be the one to cast them down under Orlais yet again...
Did I mention he was over the top bloing in the hatter?

[Xandurpein]

Recidiva wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...

True enough.   Loghain doesn't change his stripes.  That's one of the reasons he's trustworthy.   He's a fanatic patriot and willing to do anything to achieve his goals.   The only thing that changes at the Landsmeet is that he realizes he was wrong about being the only or best person to lead Ferelden to safety.

He'd still do the same things again if he was convinced they were the best course of action.   This isn't Star Wars.  You aren't getting Anakin Skywalker back from the Dark Side.  You are getting Darth Vader on your side for the final battle.

Being consistently wrong just means I can trust him to be consistently wrong.

How exactly was wiping out the King and his army, poisoning Arl Eamon and selling elves into slavery in any way...anything other than entirely self-serving and pumping up his personal power base?

He's not Darth Vader.  He's not even Dark Helmet.  He's garden variety looney toons.

In principle I agree with you. I think Loghain is in the end, if you allow him, doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. My character's reasoning that as long as what he did was right, he could have any horrible reason he wanted as lonbg as it stopped the Blight. Stopping the Blight over rules everything.

 As for Loghain's reasons... I also agree that they are utterly wrong, the only difference between us is I think that I believe that the difference between right and wrong can become much thinner than we like to believe in war. A general in war must be able to order men to their death, they must sometimes at least struggle with the fact that an order may sacrifice some people to save others. This does not absolve military leaders from their moral duty to do it right, it just makes it so much harder to see the difference between right from wrong. What are you willing to do to win the war? What is the cost if you loose? Do not for a moment delude yourself you can fight a war and stay clear of the world of murky grey betweens

Modifié par Xandurpein, 18 décembre 2009 - 10:02 .

[Vormaerin]

Recidiva wrote...

Being consistently wrong just means I can trust him to be consistently wrong.

How exactly was wiping out the King and his army, poisoning Arl Eamon and selling elves into slavery in any way...anything other than entirely self-serving and pumping up his personal power base?
.

He starts with a flawed premise:  The darkspawn are merely a swarm, not a Blight and the Orlesians are trying to retake the country.   Considering that everyone has been taught for hundreds of years that Blights are a thing of the past (well, everyone except the Gray Wardens), the first half of that is hardly a surprise.   The second half we don't know one way or the other, though we do know he was wrong in believing they were infiltrating the King's court.

He destroys the three figures at Court who have strong Orlesian ties:  Duncan, Eamon, and Bryce Cousland.   Cailan gets tossed in at the last moment when he makes it clear he's hopelessly pro Orlesian, too.

You can argue that was just an excuse for a naked power grab.  But I think that was his genuine motivation and given that, he's entirely trustworthy as an ally in stopping the Archdemon.

[Galad22]

Vormaerin wrote...

*sigh*   I hope you stay out of politics in your life.  You appear to be hopelessly ill suited for it.  

People are not trustworthy because you agree with their actions.  People are trustworthy because you can have confidence in how they will act.

As an aside, you might want to look up the definitions of words before you use them: Loghain is not a regicide.   He does betray Cailan, which is quite likely treason (though we don't actually know what oaths he swore.  For example, in the U.S., you don't swear allegiance to the President, you swear allegiance to the republic).

Have you read the books perhaps? In those he doesn't act like this murder people and what not. That  is why Cailan trust him before he have him killed. So no you can't trust how he acts.

Regicide means deliberate killing of monarch yes? So how isn't it good enough definition for you. 'Couse that what Loghain did. Of course I am not native english speaker so I could be wrong

Also definition of trustworthy is "able to be trusted." If someone betrays his sovereign he clearly isn't trustworthy. Notice trusted, not trusting how he acts.

[Vormaerin]

Regicide is the murder of or judicial execution of a monarch. Loghain does not murder Cailan and does not execute him. He does betray him and that does contribute to Cailan's death (though Cailan could have either lived or died regardless of Loghain's actions).



I'd argue that Loghain in the books is perfectly capable of murder, but there is never a situation where murder is the best way to accomplish his goals. I'm quite certain he would have happily assassinated an Orlesian lord or murdered them all in their beds in a midnight raid.



Again, you assume that because someone is put in a situation of conflicting loyalties that they are automatically untrustworthy. Loghain had a choice: be loyal to Cailan or be loyal to Ferelden.



Tell me, what if the "twist" in this game had been that Orlais really was invading because they didn't believe in the Blight either? Now is Loghain a traitor or a the hero to stopped Cailan from selling out the country?

[Loki330]

Just to point out, IIRC it was Howe who instigated the poisoning of Eamon. The 'observer' elf in the pub mentions it when you first turn up at redcliff

[Sialater]

Loki330 wrote...

Just to point out, IIRC it was Howe who instigated the poisoning of Eamon. The 'observer' elf in the pub mentions it when you first turn up at redcliff

But Jowan says Loghain hired him directly.  He recognized him from a portrait.  Howe hired the elf to watch for "changes" at Redcliffe.  

[Recidiva]

Xandurpein wrote...

In principle I agree with you. I think Loghain is in the end, if you allow him, doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. My character's reasoning that as long as what he did was right, he could have any horrible reason he wanted as lonbg as it stopped the Blight. Stopping the Blight over rules everything.

 As for Loghain's reasons... I also agree that they are utterly wrong, the only difference between us is I think that I believe that the difference between right and wrong can become much thinner than we like to believe in war. A general in war must be able to order men to their death, they must sometimes at least struggle with the fact that an order may sacrifice some people to save others. This does not absolve military leaders from their moral duty to do it right, it just makes it so much harder to see the difference between right from wrong. What are you willing to do to win the war? What is the cost if you loose? Do not for a moment delude yourself you can fight a war and stay clear of the world of murky grey betweens

Well, I'm sorry, he did all the wrong things for the wrong reasons.  That he believed in them so much is just the crazy part.

What he did wasn't grey.

I'm not deluded enough to think that I can avoid any horror of war or reality.  I do know that if I sell out all my principles and end up doing horrific things, I pay the piper.  And if I fight for principles of serving the greater good instead of being afraid of the scary bad, I don't have to make self-serving, obsessive, crazy choices.

If you begin a war knowing what you're fighting for and you end up on the other side, that's your inability to navigate.

Modifié par Recidiva, 18 décembre 2009 - 10:42 .

[Galad22]

Vormaerin wrote...

Regicide is the murder of or judicial execution of a monarch. Loghain does not murder Cailan and does not execute him. He does betray him and that does contribute to Cailan's death (though Cailan could have either lived or died regardless of Loghain's actions).

I'd argue that Loghain in the books is perfectly capable of murder, but there is never a situation where murder is the best way to accomplish his goals. I'm quite certain he would have happily assassinated an Orlesian lord or murdered them all in their beds in a midnight raid.

Again, you assume that because someone is put in a situation of conflicting loyalties that they are automatically untrustworthy. Loghain had a choice: be loyal to Cailan or be loyal to Ferelden.

Tell me, what if the "twist" in this game had been that Orlais really was invading because they didn't believe in the Blight either? Now is Loghain a traitor or a the hero to stopped Cailan from selling out the country?

Loghain was not loyal to neither however, by leaving Ostagar he left big part of the ferelden army to die and betrayed both Cailan and Ferelden. Even if he couldn't see darkspawn as a real threat, it was still quite clear that they had to be stopped anyway. How is it helping ferelden any that big part of the army dies along with king?

Loghain still should have had some proof of that, he had none. Only his own paranoia. And Cailan wasn't selling up country anyway, he accepted their help yes. But if they decided to stay Cailan would have taken actions against them. There still would have been no reason to kill your sovereign ruler.

Loghain leaves Cailan to die against numerous darkspawn horde with no possibility of escaping. This is like saying that if you send assassin to kill your king, you aren't really the regicide but that assassin is. Just silly.

[robertthebard]

Freckles04 wrote...

I haven't played the game yet where I choose Loghain, because I like Alistair too much. I'll do it at one point, if only to see the content I haven't seen yet. But from a player perspective, I'm on Alistair's side.

I think he's perfectly justified in his hissy fit. Here's why:

Here's a man who has never belonged anywhere. He's been unwanted his entire life, and he's known it. His father didn't want him, his brother didn't know about him, Arl Eamon had him live in the stables, Isolde outright hated him. He despised the Chantry and certainly didn't fit in there, but he had no choice in being there or his path on becoming a templar. When he was offered a chance to escape, of course he took it. In his position, who wouldn't? I think Alistair would have taken any chance given to him to get out of the Chantry. Being a Grey Warden, in his eyes, was just a benefit.

This presumes a lot, and contradicts things we learn from Alistair himself, and from securing Redcliffe and Redcliffe castle.  For instance, if Arl Eamon didn't care, why is Alistair's mother's amulet in his desk drawer, repaired?  Alistair tells us that he broke it in fit of rage about being sent to the Chantry.  Yet here it is, repaired, in the study of someone that didn't care about him?

Actually, by the time Duncan recruited Alistair he was liking being a Templar.  You don't have to take my word for it, you can chat Alistair up for the details, be sure to ask him about his Chantry robes.  You know, the ones he keeps under his pillow even now.

A lot of people have pointed out that being a Grey Warden means doing what is necessary, no matter the cost, and Alistair doesn't fit those requirements. That's absolutely correct. Alistair colours the role through his own idealism. Being who he is, he would filter out the necessary evil the Wardens do, and see only the good. He finally belongs somewhere, after a lifetime of not, so that must mean that the Grey Wardens are honourable and good, because that's what he is. Or how he views himself, anyway. Regardless, in his mind, he's found a home for himself. Think about that for a minute. His dream in the Fade is all about belonging, having a home, fitting in. Going to see Goldanna is all about the same. That's all he's ever wanted. And when he's finally found it, with the Wardens, it's ripped away from him in an instant.

Again, you are presuming a lot that is not in evidence, even from Alistair.  At 10 he resented the Chantry, and being sent, by the time he was recruited he liked it fine.  Again, this is information you can glean from Alistair himself.  It doesn't require a lot of Codex reading, you can just chat with him about being a Templar.  The fact that he implies being rescued by Duncan is, according to all the dialog, false.  Is he glad to be a Warden?  Surely, but he was happy being a templar, and getting the education.  This comes directly from Alistair.

So he starts building a new home with the PC and the rest of the party. He discovers a new place to belong, particularly if he's in a romance with the PC. And then you get to the Landsmeet, where the option to recruit Loghain comes up. Basically, if you agree to it, you're demolishing the place Alistair's created for himself. Again. A man can only be so strong and take so many hits before he breaks. And that's why he breaks here: he belonged with the Grey Wardens, yes, but his true place is with you, and when you betray his thoughts and feelings and beliefs that he's expressed throughout the game, he realizes that, once more, he belongs nowhere. That one goal is torn away from him once more, and he can't take it.

This is Alistair's own doing.  He chose to romanticize the Wardens, and ignore the fact that, in my case, the person he's raised up on a pedestal to lead him around is a multitime murderer that was conscripted into the Wardens in order to dodge a death penalty or worse.  The worst part of this is, this is the only time that the PC basically spits in his face, so the logical conclusion is that he's really fragile.  He built this glass house to hide in, and the first rock broke it.  He's responsible for his own feelings, I can't make him feel anything.  Well, maybe not, however, his actions have left me with nothing but contempt for him.  If I'd seen the option at the landsmeet in that game, he'd be dead.  Dead or run off, he's serving the Grey Wardens exactly the same way.  Not at all.

Is it childish? Probably. Would it have been wonderful to see Alistair show up at the final battle in spite of his desertion? Absolutely. But he's not a superman. He's a man with deep, deep issues, not to mention a shattered and stomped-on heart, and I think that expecting him to shrug that all off is not something he's capable of.

If Alistair had shown up at the final battle, I'd have tried hard to find a way to kill him.  He no longer has the right to wear the mantle of the Grey Wardens for his actions at the Landsmeet.  His immaturity reduces the number of people able to actually stop the blight by one, all because he wants to be petty and selfish.

Nothing against BioWare, they did a fine job putting this guy together.  They must have, to get all these people that can take the same actions and play them out so many different ways.