15 réponses à ce sujet

[Maclimes]

In DA:O, when you hit level 7, you could choose your first Specialization, from a list of specs you had unlocked. Although the actual process of unlocking those specs had a story element to it, once it unlocked on your account, it was no longer relevant. You could create a new Warden, become a Blood Mage, it is never mentioned.

The closest mention I can think of is in DA:A when Anders off-handedly mentions how ironic it is that now he himself is a Blood Mage (if you give him that spec).

In DA2, it's even worse. There's no plot connection at all. You just ... do it. No one mentions it, and you don't have to do anything to get it. Hawke just wakes up, and goes, "You know what? Today I'm going to unlock the secrets of being a Templar. Bam. Done."

*****

My proposal for DA3:

When you reach level 7 (or some other appropriate level), in the level-up process, you get to pick a specialization as normal, from the full list (like in DA2). HOWEVER, you don't immediately get the powers and abilities. It starts a side-quest for your hero to gain access to that specialization. Basically, it's the hero saying, "You know what? It's time to learn how to become a Templar" and then makes the decision to go learn.

You then go to a specific quest giver, who agrees to train you in exchange for something (maybe to prove your worth, maybe as payment, maybe as part of the training itself). Once you complete the quest and return to the quest giver, it unlocks the actual powers of the spec and you can then level up the powers and such normally.

And the unlock should only affect THAT character. If you create a new game, that new hero has to go through the same process for their specialization.

I think this would really make the specializations feel like they mean something. If you are required to seek out a demon and gain his aid in order to learn Blood Magic, as opposed to simply pressing the "Blood Magic" button, it would really make you think about the impact of these powers, whether they are worth it, and what it means to your character.

And along with this, I'd like to see more recognition of your spec. It doesn't have to come up in every conversation, but if you meet someone who has vowed to kill all Blood Mages, and you cast Blood Magic, maybe they should act on that, or at least notice it?

There should also be only one spec per character. It should be a life and tactics changing event, that redefines your hero's role in the world (and in party mechanics).

I believe to compensate for the increased time and difficulty of aquiring specs, they should be larger and more useful. Make them almost sub-classes, instead of just an extra tree of skills.

So instead of Warrior, who has a spec in Templar (like DAO and DA2), you would create your character as a Warrior, and then when they mastered a spec, would no longer be a Warrior, and would now be classified as a Templar.

So, thanks for reading. Feedback?

Modifié par Maclimes, 19 juillet 2012 - 04:48 .

[Amycus89]

I like it. A lot. Especially this:
"It should be a life and tactics changing event, that redefines your hero's role in the world (and in party mechanics).

I believe to compensate for the increased time and difficulty of aquiring specs, they should be larger and more useful. Make them almost sub-classes, instead of just an extra tree of skills."

I always disliked the lack of classes (only 3?!) in the DA series, but this could solve that nicely.

However, just an idea... How about a quest chain where you cain levels like apprentice to master in the chosen specialization similarly to the TES games (usually I don't like comparing these two series since they are two completely different beasts, but I will make an exception this once). And these titles determine how far you can progress on the specialization tree, before you need to continue the quest chain to advance to the next rank.

So if you wish to learn the most powerful spells of you specialization, you might need to find 3+ NPCs that can teach you what you need to know before you can get them all. Not sure if others would like my later idea, but personally I like it when I have some incentive (and rewards) for exploring every corner of the game.

[Arthur Cousland]

Ser Otto does mention if the Warden is a templar.

I'd also like for it to matter what specs the pc has, and for them to not just be more talents to unlock. Their specialization should help define them in combat and get recognition from other npcs in the game.

[Maclimes]

Exactly.

Regular Mage can do a lot of things, just not well. Can heal, can cast fireballs, can freeze enemies, can buff and debuff...

Spirit Healer, however, gets more heals, bigger heals, more efficient heals, in-combat rez, and better buffs.

Force Mage becomes a master at crowd control. Moving people around, increasing gravity to lock them in place, block ranged attacks, throw them to and fro.

Blood Mage becomes the massive damage dealer and debuffer. Powering spells through blood instead of mana allows increased damage and speed of damage spells, as well as blood-bending style debuffs for the opponents, with some minor crowd control thrown in.

Elemental Mage has mastered fire and ice, and can deal huge direct damage, but focuses on huge amounts of area-of-effect spells. This is the "glass cannon" build, if you will.

Effectively, four majorly different classes.

NOTE: There should still be VARIETY in the ways you build your class. Maybe my blood mage focuses on direct damage awesomeness, enemy debuffs, or some other aspect of the spells. I don't want there to end up being the "perfect" build for each spec, or that defeats some of the fun.

EDIT: These are just examples. I'm sure someone with more experience or talent could come up with better ways to divide the Mage specs into distinct combat roles.

Modifié par Maclimes, 19 juillet 2012 - 07:19 .

[Maclimes]

I'm also a fan of visual representation of these things (for example, if and only if you choose Templar as your spec, you get a suit of Templar armor). But that's a minor add-on, frankly.

[andar91]

Generally, I agree with your proposals, and I think the team is heading more in this direction (in a general sense). Check this out. http://www.gamespot....ge-iii-6370991/

What you're looking for is at about 4 minutes exactly. This is a Q&A session at a panel for Pax East. It's not a promise, but like I said, they seem to be going in a direction more oriented towards what you stated.

[Maclimes]

andar91 wrote...

Generally, I agree with your proposals, and I think the team is heading more in this direction (in a general sense). Check this out. http://www.gamespot....ge-iii-6370991/

What you're looking for is at about 4 minutes exactly. This is a Q&A session at a panel for Pax East. It's not a promise, but like I said, they seem to be going in a direction more oriented towards what you stated.

AWESOME! Big thanks for that link. I had never seen that before.

[andar91]

You're welcome. Obviously, it isn't a promise, but I like what I heard.

I think the real problem is that certain specializations lend themselves better to big changes in the story. Blood Mage and Templar are the two big ones that come to my mind, with Spirit Healer in the wings as a possibility. Other specializations could have some impact, but probably not nearly as much as the others.

[Fallstar]

Maclimes wrote...

In DA:O, when you hit level 7, you could choose your first Specialization, from a list of specs you had unlocked. Although the actual process of unlocking those specs had a story element to it, once it unlocked on your account, it was no longer relevant. You could create a new Warden, become a Blood Mage, it is never mentioned.

The closest mention I can think of is in DA:A when Anders off-handedly mentions how ironic it is that now he himself is a Blood Mage (if you give him that spec).

In DA2, it's even worse. There's no plot connection at all. You just ... do it. No one mentions it, and you don't have to do anything to get it. Hawke just wakes up, and goes, "You know what? Today I'm going to unlock the secrets of being a Templar. Bam. Done."

*****

My proposal for DA3:

When you reach level 7 (or some other appropriate level), in the level-up process, you get to pick a specialization as normal, from the full list (like in DA2). HOWEVER, you don't immediately get the powers and abilities. It starts a side-quest for your hero to gain access to that specialization. Basically, it's the hero saying, "You know what? It's time to learn how to become a Templar" and then makes the decision to go learn.

You then go to a specific quest giver, who agrees to train you in exchange for something (maybe to prove your worth, maybe as payment, maybe as part of the training itself). Once you complete the quest and return to the quest giver, it unlocks the actual powers of the spec and you can then level up the powers and such normally.

And the unlock should only affect THAT character. If you create a new game, that new hero has to go through the same process for their specialization.

I think this would really make the specializations feel like they mean something. If you are required to seek out a demon and gain his aid in order to learn Blood Magic, as opposed to simply pressing the "Blood Magic" button, it would really make you think about the impact of these powers, whether they are worth it, and what it means to your character.

And along with this, I'd like to see more recognition of your spec. It doesn't have to come up in every conversation, but if you meet someone who has vowed to kill all Blood Mages, and you cast Blood Magic, maybe they should act on that, or at least notice it?

There should also be only one spec per character. It should be a life and tactics changing event, that redefines your hero's role in the world (and in party mechanics).

I believe to compensate for the increased time and difficulty of aquiring specs, they should be larger and more useful. Make them almost sub-classes, instead of just an extra tree of skills.

So instead of Warrior, who has a spec in Templar (like DAO and DA2), you would create your character as a Warrior, and then when they mastered a spec, would no longer be a Warrior, and would now be classified as a Templar.

So, thanks for reading. Feedback?

I agree with everything you said actually. Specializations should feel more like sub classes. Although if they make specializations have more of an impact (a good thing) they'd have to make sure all of the specializations have similar impacts on the story. It's easy to see how being a blood mage would make people react, less so with a force mage.

[Maclimes]

DuskWarden wrote...

I agree with everything you said actually. Specializations should feel more like sub classes. Although if they make specializations have more of an impact (a good thing) they'd have to make sure all of the specializations have similar impacts on the story. It's easy to see how being a blood mage would make people react, less so with a force mage.

I agree with you on the Blood vs Force mage issue. Blood Mage obviously has a big impact on the world, but Force Mage less so. I admit I don't have the answer, there.

Just for Mages, perhaps you have three story lines:

Blood Mages speak to demons, and that's what gives them their problems and powers. It's a self-contained plot and issue.

The Spirit Mage could probably have a "good abomination" tone to it, ala Anders/Wynne (the only other two spirit healers in the game are also sharing their bodies with spirits. Can't be a coincidence.)

As for the third spec, possibly Force Mage, perhaps there could be a literal order of mages that has unearthed a forgotten power (such as gravity manipulation). Maybe they are frowned upon, or at odds with the Chantry, or some other story-related factor. I'm sure it could be arranged.

[wsandista]

This is what I'd see with regards to specializations.

For one, give the PC one specialization(granted at lvl. 12 seems like it would work well) per PC.

Then for each class have specializations that are available without any special requirements. I think that specializations like Berserker, Duelist, or Force Mage would be the best candidates to put in this group(since they don't require extremely specific instruction or have extremely specific requirements, like Reaver or Templar).

Also have two specializations that are unlocked after completing a certain quest that requires the PC to side between two different factions, with each specialization unique to one faction. For example, a Mage could have a quest where they investigate a disturbance in the Fade and end up having to choose between aiding either a demon or a spirit. If they choose to aid the demon, they can become a Blood Mage; If they aid the spirit, they can become a Spirit Healer.

[jds1bio]

I am all for achieving specializations/abilities via gameplay vs. accumulating enough "points" to grow branches in the tree. If you're not willing to slay the Uber-Fire Dragon, then perhaps you won't be an Uber-Fire Mage and your fire abilities will be limited.

I am also totally in favor of making them discoverable during the game (i.e. before playing you only know the basics of growing a few types of characters). And not in an exclamation-point MMO type way, either.

If you can hold out long enough for the internet not to spoil them for you, you can discover them yourself. That way, planning out subsequent playthroughs would mean more, and be less disappointing.

Right now the closest thing to this system in Dragon Age is the specialized loot you might receive or encounter. But it would be cool to discover classes you didn't even think were possible - like an outdoorsman that can actually wield the outdoors for force and defense.

[Arthur Cousland]

I'd love to unlock the bard spec by having to demonstrate my pc's musical ability in a tavern or somewhere, amongst other bards. A bard college, like in Skyrim, would be an even better location.

Ash warriors or dwarves could teach the berserker spec.

Shadow would be unlocked by doing some stealth related quest.

[DarthChicken]

I like the way you think, sir. I would love if DA3 went this direction. I'd even go so far as wanting some loot to be spec-specific. Reaver armor with the bloodstained bones of a long-dead dragon? Yes, please!

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Some very nice ideas you have there. I hope BioWare has a look at this thread.

[CELL55]

I agree. If it doesn't connect to the story, it can really throw my suspension of disbelief.