226 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

What we know:

- The Crucible is said to be little more than a power source.
- The Crucible "changed the variables".
- The Catalyst has tried synthesis before.

Now for the purposes of this topic let's assume that every word that comes out of the Catalyst's lying mouth isn't self-contradictory garbage and take these things to be true.

I once made a topic asking why organics would include synthesis into the Crucible's designs and the best answer anyone gave was "indoctrinated agents".
That's all well and good but it still strikes me as odd that these would make it into the preserved designs and yet still nobody can ever figure out what it does.
Of course if we accept that the Crucible is just a giant battery the answer becomes obvious; synthesis is a function of the Citadel and not the Crucible.

If this is so then it explains why the Catalyst knows everything about synthesis and how it's tried it before. It would've used the exact same method as with the Crucible because it's the Citadel that does it. It just didn't have the power required.

Q&A time!

- "What about destroy and control?"
With this theory, they are also functions of the Citadel and not the Crucible. Possibly a creator failsafe that forces the Catalyst to make these functions available.

- "If it's just a power requirement why didn't the Reapers build it?"
The Reapers are technologically stagnant. It's possible they're just incapable of innovating a power source that can push the Citadel into covering the entire galaxy with green space magic. Granted why they can't just do it a bit at a time isn't explained by this theory but that's what working with bad writing gets you.

- "LOL did you make another topic to bash synthesis?"
I don't "bash" anything. I let the facts speak for themselves, and the facts are the Catalyst really really really really wants synthesis.

- "Does this suit make me look fat?"
Yes. But it's not the suit, it's you.

[AngryFrozenWater]

We also know that the 3 platforms for the major functions are part of the Citadel and not of the Crucible. The brat left them there when it found out others built these or it built these itself.

We also know that firing the Crucible required the brat's intervention. So it was not a true weapon, because firing a weapon does not require the consent of its victims.

We also know that the brat had extensive knowledge of the working of these options. He is your perfect tour guide in explaining your options.

We also know that the brat knew that several cycles were attempting to create the Crucible. Did it built the platforms as a protection or did it leave the plans for the Crucible to be found, just like it left other tech and knowledge to be found?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 19 juillet 2012 - 05:20 .

[Hunter_Wolf]

At it's basic foundation, Synthesis makes sense. It's theoretically the next stage of evolution as far as mankind is concerned. Deus Ex, IMO, is a great source of story telling to suggest it. However, Synthesis is poorly executed and still not fully answered.

Why did Shepard have to die to trigger it?
That to me still makes no sense, besides the fact that you as Shepard are making a conscious decision to change all species, even those you have no met in the franchise, without their consent. It was barbaric, "I'm human and I know what's best even though as a Turian, you've been here longer of course, our physiology is different."

Otherwise I agree, the use of the Crucible made sense as an alternative and additional power source.

Reapers didn't care because Reapers are machines, personality is crutch. Rational things that didn't make second guesses, they simply did what they were designed to do - and that was slaughter species that met their quota.

[Clayless]

Have you ever noticed that you always make up headcannon that has contradictions and then you complain about the bad writing of your headcannon instead of trying to think up a different answer that doesn't have contradictions?

Edit:

For example it's possible that another previous cycle, or cycles, realised that Synthesis would end the conflict and included it into the design of the Crucible. The Catalyst could've also have tried that solution but failed, but that wouldn't mean others wouldn't have been able to try and create that solution.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 19 juillet 2012 - 05:21 .

[tyrvas]

this is old news bro.

[The Angry One]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Have you ever noticed that you always make up headcannon that has contradictions and then you complain about the bad writing of your headcannon instead of trying to think up a different answer that doesn't have contradictions?

Do feel free to point out the headcanon that I'm saying is being contradicted.

[His Name was HYR!!]

The Angry One wrote...

What we know:

- The Crucible is said to be little more than a power source.
- The Crucible "changed the variables".
- The Catalyst has tried synthesis before.

(...)

Of course if we accept that the Crucible is just a giant battery the answer becomes obvious; synthesis is a function of the Citadel and not the Crucible.

(...)

Q&A time!

- "What about destroy and control?"
With this theory, they are also functions of the Citadel and not the Crucible. Possibly a creator failsafe that forces the Catalyst to make these functions available.

Actually, I agree with these explanations. The fact that the Destroy/Control chambers are built-in leads me to believe that they were put there deliberately as failsafe measures, hence why the catalyst says that an organic making it to his "lair" is why his solution won't work anymore, because an organic has found the key to stopping them and restarting things.

So YES, I'm actually inclined to believe this one.

[Clayless]

The Angry One wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Have you ever noticed that you always make up headcannon that has contradictions and then you complain about the bad writing of your headcannon instead of trying to think up a different answer that doesn't have contradictions?

Do feel free to point out the headcanon that I'm saying is being contradicted.

Your second question. You headcanon, then point out a flaw, then call it bad writing.

[The Angry One]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Your second question. You headcanon, then point out a flaw, then call it bad writing.

I'm pointing out a inconsistency that I can't explain in this theory. I'm then saying I'm dealing with bad writing.
I am not saying it's bad writing because of that inconsistency. Clear now I hope?

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Actually, I agree with these
explanations. The fact that the Destroy/Control chambers are built-in
leads me to believe that they were put there deliberately as failsafe
measures, hence why the catalyst says that an organic making it to his
"lair" is why his solution won't work anymore, because an organic has
found the key to stopping them and restarting things.

So YES, I'm actually inclined to believe this one.

Yes, given that then the Catalyst's reasoning becomes somewhat less arbitrary.

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 juillet 2012 - 05:25 .

[zambot]

What I don't understand is that you openly acknowledge the fact that you're working with "bad writing" and "space magic" yet you are still attempting to impose logic on it. Why? To what end? It's just as valid to say that Shepard isn't really human, and was one of the Creators sent forward in time on a magical time travelling unicorn which explains why his essence activates the space magic that he created billions of years ago to save the galaxy. What are you out to prove?

[Clayless]

The Angry One wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Your second question. You headcanon, then point out a flaw, then call it bad writing.

I'm pointing out a inconsistency that I can't explain in this theory. I'm then saying I'm dealing with bad writing.
I am not saying it's bad writing because of that inconsistency. Clear now I hope?

Indeed you do this in almost every thread I've seen you make. You headcanon to the extreme and then make no attempt to try and fix your inconsistencies with evidence you have from the game.

If your theory contradicts a part of the game, or has some sort of unexplained or implausible contradiction or hole in it, then don't dismiss the game as bad writing, think of a new theory. Or adjust your theory if possible to get rid of contradictions or holes.

You never do this and I'm pretty sure I've told you this like 5 times. In fact I fully expect you to question everyone else instead of coming up with your own answers, and if you do come up with your own answers they will be full of holes, to which you will blame the game.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 19 juillet 2012 - 05:32 .

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Wouldn't it be more likely that the Crucible was designed with each of those options in mind and that the Citadel just allows for their focus and distribution? That was the point of bringing it to the Citadel in the first place, to allow it to manipulate the relay network.

[comrade gando]

You bring logic and reasoning to these forums?! HOW DARE YOU!!! Anyway, my question is why does the catalyst change his voice if you refuse. If that's actually to be taken literally, then wtf was the point.

[v3paR]

the variables has changed because the Crucible docked not vice versa
(aka inserting pendrive changes the behavior of OS but the OS doesn't needed or waited for that pendrvie the whole time. in fact it doesn't need it at all to work.)

[The Angry One]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Your second question. You headcanon, then point out a flaw, then call it bad writing.

I'm pointing out a inconsistency that I can't explain in this theory. I'm then saying I'm dealing with bad writing.
I am not saying it's bad writing because of that inconsistency. Clear now I hope?

Indeed you do this in almost every thread I've seen you make. You headcanon to the extreme and then make no attempt to try and fix your inconsistencies with evidence you have from the game.

If your theory contradicts a part of the game, or has some sort of unexplained or implausible contradiction or hole in it, then don't dismiss the game as bad writing, think of a new theory. Or adjust your theory if possible to get rid of contradictions or holes.

You never do this and I'm pretty sure I've told you this like 5 times. In fact I fully expect you to question everyone else instead of coming up with your own answers, and if you do come up with your own answers they will be full of holes, to which you will blame the game.

I fully explained what I meant and you keep on going about this. I can only assume you're lying in an attempt to provoke me and I'm not taking the bait.

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 juillet 2012 - 05:47 .

[The Angry One]

zambot wrote...

What I don't understand is that you openly acknowledge the fact that you're working with "bad writing" and "space magic" yet you are still attempting to impose logic on it. Why? To what end? It's just as valid to say that Shepard isn't really human, and was one of the Creators sent forward in time on a magical time travelling unicorn which explains why his essence activates the space magic that he created billions of years ago to save the galaxy. What are you out to prove?

I like logic.

[DistantUtopia]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Wouldn't it be more likely that the Crucible was designed with each of those options in mind and that the Citadel just allows for their focus and distribution? That was the point of bringing it to the Citadel in the first place, to allow it to manipulate the relay network.

But doesn't that contradict the Catalyst own words of the Crucible being nothing more than a power source?  If so, TAO's post about how the Citadel itself contains these options to begin with starts to sound legit.

[zambot]

The Angry One wrote...

zambot wrote...

What I don't understand is that you openly acknowledge the fact that you're working with "bad writing" and "space magic" yet you are still attempting to impose logic on it. Why? To what end? It's just as valid to say that Shepard isn't really human, and was one of the Creators sent forward in time on a magical time travelling unicorn which explains why his essence activates the space magic that he created billions of years ago to save the galaxy. What are you out to prove?

I like logic.

Imposing logic on the illogical is not logical behavior.

[Arisugawa]

And here we go again...

[MB957]

I am beginning to think bioware actually thought these ending would fulfill the end of the triology. Just make some simple little 3 choice end...give a little something for everyone...

you can destroy if you want...you can control if you want...and you can merge and synth if you want..

I dont think they expected people to actually put this much thought into the endings...

I wonder if they just figured we would push our favorite button, watch the pretty lights, and say..geez...what a great end to ME and shep!!

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

DistantUtopia wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Wouldn't it be more likely that the Crucible was designed with each of those options in mind and that the Citadel just allows for their focus and distribution? That was the point of bringing it to the Citadel in the first place, to allow it to manipulate the relay network.

But doesn't that contradict the Catalyst own words of the Crucible being nothing more than a power source?  If so, TAO's post about how the Citadel itself contains these options to begin with starts to sound legit.

The Crucible has the capability to implement each choice in its basest form, but requires the Citadel to actually make that implementation feasible on a galactic scale.

It's like putting a nozzle on a hose. Without the nozzle, you can still alter the flow and pressure of the water by yourself, but you won't recieve as refined an effect as you would with the nozzle.

[CronoDragoon]

The Angry One wrote...


- "What about destroy and control?"
With this theory, they are also functions of the Citadel and not the Crucible. Possibly a creator failsafe that forces the Catalyst to make these functions available.

Yes, they are also functions of the Citadel. But I don't think "The Catalyst likes Synthesis" is enough info to suggest that the way the options were generated is different. He clearly recommends one, but I tend to think they were all generated as options the same way once the Crucible docked.

[Clayless]

The Angry One wrote...

I fully explained what I meant and you keep on going about this. I can only assume you're lying in an attempt to provoke me and I'm not taking the bait.

In other words a dismissal without actually adressing anything I said and something about me lying.

I'll watch this thread. If I'm lying you wont do exactly what I said you do all the time, if I'm not you will.

Also I really, really, really hope I'm lying, because that'll mean you wont question people and refuse to try and fix the holes in the questions you are asking.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 19 juillet 2012 - 06:07 .

[DistantUtopia]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...
The Crucible has the capability to implement each choice in its basest form, but requires the Citadel to actually make that implementation feasible on a galactic scale.

It's like putting a nozzle on a hose. Without the nozzle, you can still alter the flow and pressure of the water by yourself, but you won't recieve as refined an effect as you would with the nozzle.

I don't see any in-game dialog to support this.  As TAO mentioned (and as I replay the ending now), the Catalyst says the Crucible is little more than a power source.  So why would you say the Crucible had these choices built in?

Please feel free to correct me if I missed other dialog.