205 réponses à ce sujet

[Ozida]

I liked EDI in ME2 and didn't like her in ME3 because I found that the writers went the easiest way with EDI/Joker storyline. Joker was strange in a way to fall in love with his ship (remember, how he wouldn't abandone Normandy at the begining of ME2?), and than EDI came abroad. They started with dislike, then grew to be friends, and by the end of ME2 Shep was asking if Joker realizes that he flirts with a ship.

Should BW carried this theme of human loving AI, it would be extremely interesting and somewhat dramatic. It would also bring more sense of FemShepard flirting with Joker at the bar. He didn't need to become full LI, but it would be a neat love triangle. It would also bring more sense to Synthesis because then they could bring EDI to "live" by giving her some half-human/ half-synthetic body.

Instead writers went bold with "let's give Joker his own happy end" and made EDI a sex-toy interested in irrelevant jokes more than taking care of the actual ship. From intellegant AI she became a "blubermouth" (is that the word Liara used?) with an intellect of teenegare with rising hormons. I honestly expected her to giggle at some point.

[AlexMBrennan]

I'm more comfortable with that, than I am the male homosexual characters. Just saying.

Seriously? Could you troll any more obviously?

On an unrelated note, why does this forum not have an "ignore" function?

As for the original question, there are three issues;
a) The sexbot reveal is ridiculous. I literally couldn't stop laughing for 20min after first seeing it.
Her relationship with Joker is creepy - arguably, Bioware screwed up the execution here because this kind of relationship could have been explored with the appropriate depth to make it significantly less creepy.
c) Shepard is forced to accept her. ME2 had the same issue - it's a Cerberus AI. I don't trust Cerberus. Thus, I don't trust EDI.*

* And before someone tells me that Shepard can trust EDI because she helped them at the Collector base or similar silly non-sense: No, you're wrong. That's not trust.

Two agents will cooperate if it's mutually beneficial. Helping Shepard was in EDI's best interest (e.g. if her real objective was to secure the base, killing Shepard if necessary). Trustworthiness, on the other hand, is if EDI will not betray Shepard if would gain an advantage by doing so. We have never seen such an action.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 21 juillet 2012 - 03:20 .

[Asharad Hett]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I'm more comfortable with that, than I am the male homosexual characters. Just saying.

Seriously? Could you troll any more obviously?

Yes seriously.  I'm not trying to troll, although I can see how seems troll-like.   I was trying to add to the discussion, in a positive way.  So I will elaborate, and hope that I do not offend. 

I have several male homosexual friends and co-workers.  We get along just fine.  I don't approve of their lifestyle, but they don't require my approval.  I will simply say that male homosexuality does make me unconfortable, and I avoid any reference to it in ME3.

I think this adds to the discussion, because there are many posting that they are not comfortable with EDI's new role in the game.   One person described it as "unnecessary and weird".  I disagree.  This game covers scenarios that people may find unsettling.  I applaud Bioware for including male-homosexuality, much as I applaud them for including EDI's curiousity on life and the universe.  

There are some who dislike EDI "the sexbot", yet applaud the softcore porn of The Witcher 2.  I find this hypocritical.

I would agree that Bioware could have handled EDI better, but I think they could have done better with every relationship.  In my opinion, the best relationship was with Liara, because it was the deepest emotionally.  As for EDI, I'm glad they gave EDI and Joker an opportunity to foster their relationship further than was possible in ME2.

Modifié par Asharad Hett, 21 juillet 2012 - 04:01 .

[incinerator950]

Dat Camel

[mopotter]

I like Edi. I liked Data in StarTrek. I thought her conversations were funny and Joker/Edi didn't creep me out but I never wanted him as a LI so that was never an issue. But I also liked Jack and would have liked her as part of the team and can understand the -she took up an extra space- idea.

If they had set the game up so you could actually pick your team leaving who you didn't want to work with some other group or in Edi's case having the option of helping her use the body or not it would have been nicer and given me another replay option. But they didn't.

[BatmanPWNS]

1) I hate the idea of a sexbot.
2) I hate the idea of a sexbot sleeping with Joker. Would Joker sleep with her if she took control of an ordinary mech?
3) I find it funny the guy with the brittle bone disease can only get laid by a robot. Yeah, great message Bioware.
4) Shepard and his autodialogue are annoying. I want to tell she's just a AI and nothing more but AUTODIALOGUE said "You found your human side!!!11!". What happen to ME1/2 Shepard that went around hating AI and insulting them everywhere.
5) I prefer her role in ME2 more.

Edit: Oh and CAMELTOE.

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 21 juillet 2012 - 04:24 .

[Reikilea]

1. Sexbot thing.
2. High heels and shiny ******.
3. Edi and Joker. Not ever. Metal robot, huh. Clever Bioware.
4. Most overused trope ever.
5. Forced friendship. Forced everything. My Shepard would never allow Edi´s upload into that thing that nearly killed Kaidan/Ash and jeopardised whole Mars mission. Or the point that you have to be nice to her. Seriously Kaidan got a renegade interrupt when he mentions that his father is killed, and I cant even say I don’t agree with Edi?
6. I want Miranda for Cerberus base assault, having Edi there is pointless. Edi is just computer. Thats should have been Miranda place.
7. Edi is Frizt Lang´s Maria Abormination.

Even talking to Edi made me cringe, with all her pointless questions about human emotions, behaviour - storyline that were already answered in the Legion story arc. I loved Legion character.

Actually this is the first time I hated a character in a videogame. And not because Edi is a robot. I loved Legion, he is one of my most favourite. The problem I had with Edi. I personally thought that Bioware went over the top. Way too much everything - too much boobs, too much heels, her behaviour. It’s like they just had to hyperbolise everything known about human/robot relationship in her creation.

The only option for me is to ignore Edi at all cost and enjoy Destroy consequences. Thanks to Edi, I can never take the Synthesis option (not that I want that).

[Rotgutso]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I'm more comfortable with that, than I am the male homosexual characters. Just saying.

Seriously? Could you troll any more obviously?

On an unrelated note, why does this forum not have an "ignore" function?

As for the original question, there are three issues;
a) The sexbot reveal is ridiculous. I literally couldn't stop laughing for 20min after first seeing it.
Her relationship with Joker is creepy - arguably, Bioware screwed up the execution here because this kind of relationship could have been explored with the appropriate depth to make it significantly less creepy.
c) Shepard is forced to accept her. ME2 had the same issue - it's a Cerberus AI. I don't trust Cerberus. Thus, I don't trust EDI.*

* And before someone tells me that Shepard can trust EDI because she helped them at the Collector base or similar silly non-sense: No, you're wrong. That's not trust.

Two agents will cooperate if it's mutually beneficial. Helping Shepard was in EDI's best interest (e.g. if her real objective was to secure the base, killing Shepard if necessary). Trustworthiness, on the other hand, is if EDI will not betray Shepard if would gain an advantage by doing so. We have never seen such an action.

So true. The game force me to be nice to her. I never liked that thing since Mass 2 and now I have to suddenly accept her sexbot. She doesn't deserve Joker, the whole relationship is dumb and creepy.

[Rotgutso]

Reikilea wrote...

1. Sexbot thing.
2. High heels and shiny ******.
3. Edi and Joker. Not ever. Metal robot, huh. Clever Bioware.
4. Most overused trope ever.
5. Forced friendship. Forced everything. My Shepard would never allow Edi´s upload into that thing that nearly killed Kaidan/Ash and jeopardised whole Mars mission. Or the point that you have to be nice to her. Seriously Kaidan got a renegade interrupt when he mentions that his father is killed, and I cant even say I don’t agree with Edi?
6. I want Miranda for Cerberus base assault, having Edi there is pointless. Edi is just computer. Thats should have been Miranda place.
7. Edi is Frizt Lang´s Maria Abormination.

Even talking to Edi made me cringe, with all her pointless questions about human emotions, behaviour - storyline that were already answered in the Legion story arc. I loved Legion character.

Actually this is the first time I hated a character in a videogame. And not because Edi is a robot. I loved Legion, he is one of my most favourite. The problem I had with Edi. I personally thought that Bioware went over the top. Way too much everything - too much boobs, too much heels, her behaviour. It’s like they just had to hyperbolise everything known about human/robot relationship in her creation.

The only option for me is to ignore Edi at all cost and enjoy Destroy consequences. Thanks to Edi, I can never take the Synthesis option (not that I want that).

Completely agree with you here.

[robertthebard]

Ozida wrote...

I liked EDI in ME2 and didn't like her in ME3 because I found that the writers went the easiest way with EDI/Joker storyline. Joker was strange in a way to fall in love with his ship (remember, how he wouldn't abandone Normandy at the begining of ME2?), and than EDI came abroad. They started with dislike, then grew to be friends, and by the end of ME2 Shep was asking if Joker realizes that he flirts with a ship.

Should BW carried this theme of human loving AI, it would be extremely interesting and somewhat dramatic. It would also bring more sense of FemShepard flirting with Joker at the bar. He didn't need to become full LI, but it would be a neat love triangle. It would also bring more sense to Synthesis because then they could bring EDI to "live" by giving her some half-human/ half-synthetic body.

Instead writers went bold with "let's give Joker his own happy end" and made EDI a sex-toy interested in irrelevant jokes more than taking care of the actual ship. From intellegant AI she became a "blubermouth" (is that the word Liara used?) with an intellect of teenegare with rising hormons. I honestly expected her to giggle at some point.

Actually, EDI's sense of humor, no matter how dry it may have been, was presented more than once in ME 2.  She references the CO2 scrubbers, I think it is, in one joke, and tells Joker she loves the idea of humans on their knees, right after he unshackled her.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Ozida wrote...

I liked EDI in ME2 and didn't like her in ME3 because I found that the writers went the easiest way with EDI/Joker storyline. Joker was strange in a way to fall in love with his ship (remember, how he wouldn't abandone Normandy at the begining of ME2?), and than EDI came abroad. They started with dislike, then grew to be friends, and by the end of ME2 Shep was asking if Joker realizes that he flirts with a ship.

Should BW carried this theme of human loving AI, it would be extremely interesting and somewhat dramatic. It would also bring more sense of FemShepard flirting with Joker at the bar. He didn't need to become full LI, but it would be a neat love triangle. It would also bring more sense to Synthesis because then they could bring EDI to "live" by giving her some half-human/ half-synthetic body.

Instead writers went bold with "let's give Joker his own happy end" and made EDI a sex-toy interested in irrelevant jokes more than taking care of the actual ship. From intellegant AI she became a "blubermouth" (is that the word Liara used?) with an intellect of teenegare with rising hormons. I honestly expected her to giggle at some point.

Giving her a human body does seem like an easy way out, but it's not completely terrible. It honestly looks like the only thing you paid attention to is her dialogue with Joker, and while I agree that some of it is cringe-worthy, that's hardly all there is to her character. I hear dialogue about the condition of the ship and the cyberwarfare suite and what not. Oh well, if you chose to selectively listen to her dialogue, that's your choice. Each to his/her own.

[LTKerr]

I liked her until she said those damn words in EC synthesis ending (on Youtube, of course). I spent two games treating her like a person, like an alive person, two games trying to prove it doesn't matter if a person is organic or synthetic. And then what? Her "I am alive" is an insult, it seems I was wrong the whole time after all.

[en2ym3]

Endorlf wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

Because by turning her into a sexbot, they completely ruined her character. You knew EDI was sapient, trustworthy, and "human" not because she looked like one but because she acted like one. She never had to look human to feel human, to feel alive.

Her presence also feels like it's a bone thrown to anybody who liked the ME2 cast. Rather than actually putting in the effort to bring back an ME2-exclusive character, they half-ass EDI into a squadmate.

And this is something that applies to the Geth as well as EDI. Rather than justifying that synthetic life was its own unique but equally legitimate form of like like ME2 did, ME3 constantly implied that synthetics' ultimate goal was to become more like organics, what with all that bullsh!t like the Geth wanting to be "true" intelligences and EDI wanting to act more like an organic.

If EDI was already sapient and trustworthy, why does giving her a body ruin her? Why is her attempt at emulating human behavior inherently bad? While I also feel that EDI acquiring the body feels rushed, her trying to become "human" isn't unreasonable. Her companions consist of a predominantly human crew.

Is isn't bad, necessarily, that she try to be human, for the idea on its own.  But she didn't do this in ME2, and this whole thing suggests that EDI can only legitimately be alive or the like if she emulates a human,  which is really awful in implications, uncreative, trite, and dull.  She could be "alive" without acting like a human/living in the sense we would normally understand it.  This is where I thought they were going with both her and (even more so) the Geth in 2.

[Dean_the_Young]

Because while she was given a sexbot body, she wasn't given a male sexbot body.

No, seriously.

One plays into the worst tendencies of the design team with the objectification and over-sexualization of female characters, as well as indulging in a large number of female stereotypes along a development path that more or less indulges to geeky male egos: look, AI-in-female bodies are not just human like the rest of us, but they want to bone us like women. Enjoy.

A bit bland, after all this time. Definitely lacking in originality, and a bit weak. Now, if EDI had been in a male chasis...

First and foremost, playing it straight (female voice, male body) would have emphasized, rather than detracted, from the premise of AI as a distinct but valid form of life. Rather than neatly falling into organic-cultural and even gender stereotypes (Geth are male, EDI is female), it could have emphasized that AI defy gender categorization. Genders are for organics, and synthetics are different: this is the sort of inherent difference to be gaped.

EDI-in-a-male chasis doesn't lose character development: EDI can still have the same sort of questions, concerns, and worries regardless.By playing this, and playing it straight, Bioware would be emphasizing the themes over the chasis, so to speak: EDI becomes a better representation of a different form of life, as opposed to another form of woman.


And, finally, just imagine the mind-****ery with Joker that could be applied without dropping the romance angle. Hey, if 'they're not really women' it's good for the Asari...

[ElementL09]

I think its the Sexbot or infilitrator unit thing. Regardless of what body she had, she offered interesting conversation and insight when being around as one of the crew members. With that I don't despise EDI at all, I like her though as like a semi-new character on the Normandy. Also after playing ME2, I always thought EDI as a squad member, even though she couldn't come with us, so with her coming into Mass Effect 3 with a body, was no surprise.

[Anvos]

Actually I had more dislike for the geth than EDI. Though part of this is due to the fact I'm of the crowd that  says saying EDI and the geth are alive and more than complex VIs is related to the statment "any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable to magic".

Honestly the only real problem with her I have is that like Javik(who was planning to commit suicide after anyways) she chickens out on the beam run despite previously telling me the existence of her mobile platform has no relation to her existance.

Also since I don't look at her as life I kinda ended up with an "awe cute, it thinks is people" situation, where my shep more liked her around to watch how a human based VI with reaper processing speed to speed up development turns out. Plus unlike geth if EDI goes out of control you just have to cut the power to her blue box or at worst self destruct the Normandy.

Modifié par Anvos, 21 juillet 2012 - 11:10 .

[o Ventus]

Endorlf wrote...

Hi everyone.

Although my account has only been around for a few days, I have observed these boards since April. In general, I'm seeing a lot of hate for EDI. She might be one of the most hated characters in the series. It puzzles me because I actually really like her, and a lot of times people say they hate her without clearly explaining why. I'm seeing a lot of the same arguments, such as sexbot and creepy relationship and so forth. I'm also hearing people complaining that she took a spot that a ME2 squadmate could have taken. Even so, I'm still puzzled by why there is so much hatred for this character.

>Answers his own question, even acknowledges it
>Is still curious

[SpamBot2000]

How come nobody is into the sexbot thing? I mean, we all presume EDI was designed like that to pander to some audience... but there doesn't seem to be anyone who's like "Yeah, that's hot!" Was the market research wrong or what?

[Drunken_krogan]

I personally like EDI, and I thought Bioware handled her well. Thats just my opinion. I would like to see EDI more fleshed out in DLC though as well as other characters.

[Drunken_krogan]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

How come nobody is into the sexbot thing? I mean, we all presume EDI was designed like that to pander to some audience... but there doesn't seem to be anyone who's like "Yeah, that's hot!" Was the market research wrong or what?

No, its not wrong, people just don't like to admit they are turned on by it. Personally I am, and my GF doesn't mind, as a nerd herself she understands. 

[Blacklash93]

FitScotGaymer wrote...
They had what Bioware did to her; that is they hate that she got turned into a Miranda 2.0 Sexbot complete with ****** catsuits.

This is actually quite accurate in a funny way. Dr. Eva's model was obviously a modified version of Miranda's. The body was pretty much identical. Same puddin' face, as well.

Bioware revive Legion as this. Now.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 21 juillet 2012 - 11:27 .

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

Edi's charachter has grown on me the more times I play the game, I like her sense of humour and I like pissing Javik off. That being said she is the NPC that I use the least.

[Endorlf]

o Ventus wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

Hi everyone.

Although my account has only been around for a few days, I have observed these boards since April. In general, I'm seeing a lot of hate for EDI. She might be one of the most hated characters in the series. It puzzles me because I actually really like her, and a lot of times people say they hate her without clearly explaining why. I'm seeing a lot of the same arguments, such as sexbot and creepy relationship and so forth. I'm also hearing people complaining that she took a spot that a ME2 squadmate could have taken. Even so, I'm still puzzled by why there is so much hatred for this character.

>Answers his own question, even acknowledges it
>Is still curious

At the time of that post, I had hoped that people had deeper reasons, or at least explain why the body and the relationship is bad. I also don't entirely understand the argument that she takes a spot from ME2 squad; is Bioware not supposed to introduce new characters in ME3? We gave new characters a chance in ME2, why can't we do the same for ME3? Are we so attached to ME2 squadmates that newcomers like Vega and EDI won't make the cut no matter what?

Modifié par Endorlf, 22 juillet 2012 - 12:27 .

[Shepardtheshepard]

Endorlf wrote...
At the time of that post, I had hoped that people had deeper reasons, or at least explain why the body and the relationship is bad. I also don't entirely understand the argument that she takes a spot from ME2 squad; is Bioware not supposed to introduce new characters in ME3? We gave new characters a chance in ME2, why can't we do the same for ME3? Are we so attached to ME2 squadmates that newcomers like Vega and EDI won't make the cut no matter what?

One of my beefs with EDI is that she isn't that she "took away" an ME2 squadmate, but rather she was an ME2 squadmate taking the spot of a new one for ME3.
Sure she wasn't in combat for ME2, but she was still talking to/helping us on every mission, speaking more than the people we actually DID get to take with us. Plus we talked to and learnt plenty about her while Garrus was making gun calibrations.
So ME3 comes around and we get to spend even more time with her than we did in the 2nd game. Oh joy. She even gets more storytime/focus than anyone else, including the only genuine new character.   

[o Ventus]

Endorlf wrote...

At the time of that post, I had hoped that people had deeper reasons, or at least explain why the body and the relationship is bad. I also don't entirely understand the argument that she takes a spot from ME2 squad; is Bioware not supposed to introduce new characters in ME3?

Strawman argument.  There were 12 squadmates in ME2, several of which were integral to several plot points. Absolutely f**king none of them made any meaningful appearance, sans Mordin and Legion, and even Mordin doesn't affect anything in how his plot can be resolved.

We gave new characters a chance in ME2, why can't we do the same for ME3? Are we so attached to ME2 squadmates that newcomers like Vega and EDI won't make the cut no matter what?

Where did you learn to debate? That's 2 strawmans in the same post.

Because ME2 wasn't the end of the trilogy? Because ME3 was supposed to be the point where all of the subplots met their conclusions? Because the ME3 squad is just the ME1 squad, minus Wrex and the person who died on Virmire, plus 2 new and totally unnecessary characters? Because a number (if not a majority) of the ME2 cahracters give you non-reasons as to why they can't join your squad in ME3?