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Spoilers for Dark Knight Rises inside...This is how you end a hero's journey Bioware. Take note


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#1
dirty console peasant

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I apologise in advance for the wall of text coming.  I am not an english major and can not figure out how I should format it. 

First of all I am a devoted fan of the Mass Effect trilogy,  I have played ME1 more times than I can count, have at least five playthroughs of ME2 and have 3 completed playthroughs with one left right before the cerberus base of ME3,  I have bought every story related dlc for all three games.  I love the story that you told,  HOWEVER I do not like the ending to the story it was three artificial choices provided by a completely new character that completely changed the nature of the main villain throughout the series.  Now this could have been attributed to the fact that it is very difficult to end the journey of a hero that we have spent so much time with, this could have been said up until Christopher Nolan created the amazing movie that is called ]The Dark Knight Rises. This is how you end an epic story, it even had a last minute plot twist that completely changed the face of the enemy, BUT IT WORKED.  Everyone thought that Bruce Wayne was dead, and they could have even ended with that it was a bittersweet ending that worked, But they did not end there, no they allowed Bruce Wayne to live, and not have to be the hero anymore to JUST LIVE.  I would not have had a problem with a single ending path in ME3 if it had been similar to this, where to use the movie for reference.  If your EMS was too low (say below 1500) the bomb would not have escaped the city limits and Gotham would have been destroyed, The paralell in ME3 would be obviously that the Reapers would have been defeated.  If your EMS was higher (say 1500)) the Bomb would have escaped the city limits, but there would not have been any autopiolet, and Batman would have died, there would be no Italy scene, the parallel in ME3 would be the reapers destroyed, but shepard definitively dead, and no other tacked on casualties (Destroy I am looking at you).  Had the EMS been sufficiently high (say 3100) you would get the ending that there was for The Dark Knight Rises, Italy scene and all, the equivalent here would be the destroy ending, again with no tacked on casualties, and instead of the breath scene we would see Shepard with their LI and possibly children, obviously retired.  Leaving the door open for sequals that star someone else (possibly Shep's children) Like we got at the end of The Dark Knight Rises, with Robin.  This ending would be amazing and still fit with everything else that we were told throuought the series.  But maybe instead of just having Starkid we would have Harby still seem like the main villain, and somehow introduce Starkid, which would make more sense.

Modifié par Shepard Cmdr, 20 juillet 2012 - 08:16 .


#2
Soul8lighter

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It was epic!

#3
dirty console peasant

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Soul8lighter wrote...

It was epic!

Dark Knight or ME3 (and yes there is a right answer)

#4
ShepnTali

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Considering the movie is along the lines of Nightfall, killing the Bat instead of breaking the Bat would be horrendous and I'd go batsh*t.

#5
Soul8lighter

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Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Soul8lighter wrote...

It was epic!

Dark Knight or ME3 (and yes there is a right answer)

 

I just got done watching the movie. It has some twists that I didn't see coming.

Modifié par Soul8lighter, 20 juillet 2012 - 09:19 .


#6
malakim2099

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ShepnTali wrote...

Considering the movie is along the lines of Nightfall, killing the Bat instead of breaking the Bat would be horrendous and I'd go batsh*t.


Not only Knightfall, but you can see a lot of Frank Miller's themes from Year One/Dark Knight Returns in Nolan's work. Especially this movie and DKR.

Really, if Shepard lives... we should have had a little end scene with Vega sitting down in a cafe, and he sees Shepard and her LI sitting quietly at a nearby table. "Hero has to die" my posterior.

#7
foxfeathers

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Personally, I thought the ending of Dark Knight Rises was terrible. He should have died =/

#8
Adugan

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BANE IS SOCIALISM

THE END

#9
zovoes

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Adugan wrote...

BANE IS SOCIALISM

THE END

no bane was a parody of it just like the joker was for anarchy and chaos.

#10
dirty console peasant

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SRobson wrote...

Personally, I thought the ending of Dark Knight Rises was terrible. He should have died =/


Why So Serious. 

#11
Dusen

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SRobson wrote...

Personally, I thought the ending of Dark Knight Rises was terrible. He should have died =/

Well, technically, Bruce Wayne did die. He now lives under another alias in Italy.

#12
foxfeathers

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Dusen wrote...

SRobson wrote...

Personally, I thought the ending of Dark Knight Rises was terrible. He should have died =/

Well, technically, Bruce Wayne did die. He now lives under another alias in Italy.


I mean DIE die. Actually die. I'm one of those people who is quite fond of endings where the 'hero' dies.

#13
dirty console peasant

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SRobson wrote...

Dusen wrote...

SRobson wrote...

Personally, I thought the ending of Dark Knight Rises was terrible. He should have died =/

Well, technically, Bruce Wayne did die. He now lives under another alias in Italy.


I mean DIE die. Actually die. I'm one of those people who is quite fond of endings where the 'hero' dies.

Yah if he had actually died it would have worked, I am not a fan of the hero dying, but if you really want to kill your hero, this is how you do it.  I still think it was better for the little clip at the end in italy.  The equivalent of the breath scene was when they told Lucius Fox that the autopiolet had indeed been fixed six months prior, and if bioware had just included a scene, of say Shepard and his/her LI a few years later, obviously retired that would take care of that closure for me.  Just do not do a half assed job and leave it after the breath scene, all one way or all the other I did not play this game to wonder how it ended.  If the ending were to be somehow changed to this then I would gladly pay $10 for the dlc, even without extra mid game content (something that I can not believe I am saying), but only if there is a "happy ending" that only works with a sufficiently high EMS, otherwise you can still pick it but it would play out like the other two examples in the OP (maybe they could even force the "Reapers win" with a sufficiently low EMS).  I just want it to be an option, and reward for my doing everything right.

#14
dirty console peasant

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If this thread goes dormant I will bump it in a few days when more people have had a chance to see the movie.

#15
Ithurael

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The great thing about TDKR is that it NEVER sacrificed its central conflict over the course of the narrative. Some of the themes shown in TDKR:
- Wage Equality (Rich vs Poor)
- Escalation
- Anarchy vs Order
- Morality (Dent act & lie vs Truth)
-Fear.

Each of these sub themes created a conflict in the narrative, but the primary Conflict of the narrative was: "Batman must save Gotham from being Destroyed"

If at the final scene when Batman is about to kill bane we get a Twist that states that Bane and the League is needed to destroy Gotham (and all decadent cities) because the Rich will always be destroyed by the Poor. Destroying the city just keeps it contained. That would not make sense. It isn't because of the noticeable circular logic - villains are allowed to be hypocrites. It doesn't make sense because of they shift a sub theme to the Central conflict!. That is the biggest issue I had with ME3, it took a sub theme and made it the new Central Conflict of the game and the three options were largely shaped around that new central conflict.

The Dark Knight Rises is a great example of narrative coherence and beautiful storytelling. Sure, it was no Dark Knight, but then again I severely doubt anyone thought that Nolan could top Ledger's Joker or the story of TDK. The best he could do was equal TDK and he largely succeeded.

TDKR >>>>>ME3+EC

And yes, it was really great to get an ending to a fantastic trilogy that didn't end all "emo". LOL

#16
Quackjack

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SRobson wrote...

Dusen wrote...

SRobson wrote...

Personally, I thought the ending of Dark Knight Rises was terrible. He should have died =/

Well, technically, Bruce Wayne did die. He now lives under another alias in Italy.


I mean DIE die. Actually die. I'm one of those people who is quite fond of endings where the 'hero' dies.

Totally not cliche

#17
Eterna

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I don't think slapping the Dark Knights ending onto Mass Effect would be okay.

#18
Saint Op

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Yeah such a shame that Mass Effect didn't have 70+ years of material to build off of and recycle all those stories with slight differences...
Really why didn't they make Shepards web shooters organic...The house should have landed on T.I.M....Tombs shot first...and was it really a dream of was it just LSD....
Oh and how come Lost didn't end just like Bonanza...

#19
dirty console peasant

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Eterna5 wrote...

I don't think slapping the Dark Knights ending onto Mass Effect would be okay.

Why not they already ripped off B5, it would certainly be a much better ending than the one we got.  Also I am not saying to slap the TDKRs ending on Mass Effect 3,  I am simply saying that is an example to draw from (narritive coherence while changing the face of the villain, not changing the main conflict in the last 10 minutes, not leaving a heros fate vague).  I am not saying that they should do a direct pull, but I am saying that they could take notes and improve their ending.

#20
Fauxnormal

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Wall of text and boring batman ****.

Didn't read.

#21
dirty console peasant

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Saint Op wrote...

Yeah such a shame that Mass Effect didn't have 70+ years of material to build off of and recycle all those stories with slight differences...
Really why didn't they make Shepards web shooters organic...The house should have landed on T.I.M....Tombs shot first...and was it really a dream of was it just LSD....
Oh and how come Lost didn't end just like Bonanza...

What are you even trying to say?

#22
Eterna

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Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I don't think slapping the Dark Knights ending onto Mass Effect would be okay.

Why not they already ripped off B5, it would certainly be a much better ending than the one we got.  Also I am not saying to slap the TDKRs ending on Mass Effect 3,  I am simply saying that is an example to draw from (narritive coherence while changing the face of the villain, not changing the main conflict in the last 10 minutes, not leaving a heros fate vague).  I am not saying that they should do a direct pull, but I am saying that they could take notes and improve their ending.


They already have improved their endings, don't expect a round two.

#23
dirty console peasant

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Fauxnormal wrote...

Wall of text and boring batman ****.

Didn't read.

Your loss, the movie was amazing, and bioware could learn from its example.

#24
dirty console peasant

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Eterna5 wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I don't think slapping the Dark Knights ending onto Mass Effect would be okay.

Why not they already ripped off B5, it would certainly be a much better ending than the one we got.  Also I am not saying to slap the TDKRs ending on Mass Effect 3,  I am simply saying that is an example to draw from (narritive coherence while changing the face of the villain, not changing the main conflict in the last 10 minutes, not leaving a heros fate vague).  I am not saying that they should do a direct pull, but I am saying that they could take notes and improve their ending.


They already have improved their endings, don't expect a round two.

I do not consider polishing the turd to be an improvement, It still sucks.

#25
The_Other_M

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Soul8lighter wrote...

 

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Soul8lighter wrote...

It was epic!

Dark Knight or ME3 (and yes there is a right answer)

 

I just got done watching the movie. It has some twists that I didn't see coming.


Yes, THIS is how you end a trilogy.
Going back later today to watch it in IMAX.