66 réponses à ce sujet

[Saurel]

Doesn't Morrigan even go so far as to say "our child" won't even be that anymore as soon as the archdemon's soul transfers over?

[Numbnumb27]

What if the father is an elf?

"Look I know he is my child! Just look at those ears!"

(Baby is nursing and lets out a firiey burp that singes one of Morrigan's nipples)

LOL

[SeanMurphy2]

Is the soul the personality and memories of the old god?

[JasonPogo]

Numbnumb27 wrote...

What if the father is an elf?
"Look I know he is my child! Just look at those ears!"
(Baby is nursing and lets out a firiey burp that singes one of Morrigan's nipples)
LOL

Any child had between a human and elf is fully human. 

[MorningBird]

Just out of curiosity... why all the obsession with Morrigan's 'maybe' baby?

I mean, first of all, not everyone chose to impregnate Morrigan and go through with her questionable ritual so that they could gift her with a god-like child that she could raise/manipulate in (possible) future installments DA.  Even if she were to somehow get knocked-up by ANOTHER Grey Warden in Orlais, the baby would just carry the taint, not the soul of an ancient god, and would therefore only be... well, Morrigan 2.0...

But for arguement's sake, let's go with the 'God Baby' ending... from that, why would you assume that Morrigan would choose to 'possess' the child?  Say what you want about Morrigan, but my impression of her was that she adapts through experience, and if her experience with Flemeth taught her anything, you would think it would be something along the lines of:

"Kids do not generally appreciate it when their parents hide plans to possess their bodies and steal their youth/power for themselves.  Heck, they may even see murder as a viable response.  This is heavily counterproductive to staying alive.'

Or:

"Note to self: continual possession of random, pretty, powerful woman does not always equal a long, happy, and un-maimed existence."

I mean, what really confuses me here is that some people seem to think that Morrigan WANTS to be like Flemeth and go around possessing little girls.  During the beginning of DA, I always got the inkling that Morrigan cared for Flemeth (up until you find her Grimoire in the Circle Tower, anyway...) but that she also wanted to separate herself from her to some degree.

After all, if you inquire into Flemeth's past, Morrigan will reveal some of her thoughts on her 'mother'--mainly that she sees her as old and somewhat embittered by her past lives--and like all children, I think Morrigan viewed herself as being 'above' such behavior (after all, she's got a touch of a superiority complex).

So why, why, WHY would she then turn around and attempt to possess her own child?  Because it’s got the soul of a god?  I don't think so, I mean, I've taken Morrigan with me for the Urn of Sacred Ashes, I've seen how she deals with demons in the Fade.  Once again, say what you want to about Morrigan, but you have to admit, she does not allow supernatural beings ANY quarter, because she was raised to recognize their various DANGERS.

Knowing what she knows, and then attempting to jump into the body of a GOD?  As of yet, I do not think her that reckless...

Not only that, but what have we learned about DEMON possession thus far?  A mage stops being a mage when they're under possession.  Their soul gets locked somewhere else, maybe it even gets torn from the body altogether--heck, maybe its the equiviment of DYING for a mage.

Flemeth possessing Morrigan would have definately KILLED her, in a sense.  Morrigan possessing a child with the soul of a god would effectively KILL that god, and if its the SOUL of that god that's got all this apparently desirable 'power', what happens when that soul is forced out of that body by another?

Lastly... what, and I'm just guessing here... WHAT if Morrigan gave birth to a BABY BOY?  I just CAN'T see her possessing the body of a man, for various reasons.  One, I do think she's vain and likes her own womanly curves.  Two, Flemeth raised her to seduce men, use them and then throw her away... I imagine this tactic of manipulation would lose a certain edge of effectiveness were she a man, but I digress.  Plus, there's the baby itself to consider... yes, let's talk about the baby, the 'future' boy/girl of Morrigan and the Grey Warden...

If the child were a boy (which I actually would find infinitely more fascinating) I don't think Morrigan would know what to do with it.  She wouldn't be able to raise a boy the way she was raised... say what you want, girls and boys ARE different, and we do need to be treated a little differently at such an early stage.

Morrigan has never before raised a boy... nor was she raised as a boy...  If a sequel containing Morrigan's child were ever to be made to DA, I think the character would turn out MUCH more interesting if they conflicted with Morrigan because of their different sex/possible beliefs.  If the little brat turned out being a Morrigan clone I would be quite put-out.

I liked Morrigan as a character, that's why I wouldn't like to see another one JUST like her... it would be recycling, and since it seems to be what everyone expects, also predictable.

Anyway, my two cents.  I know I probably sounded angry, but I'm not.  I just don't get how assumptions can be taken as fact when the devs did such a good job of keeping Morrigan a mystery.  I have no idea what they would plan to do with her baby, or if Morrigan and the little offspring will even be in a possible sequal.

However, I'd rather wait in anticipation of the writer's decisions than eat up the 'Morrigan possess baby and becomes final boss evil master of the universe' line of thinking.  It's too obvious.  I want to be surprised.

Modifié par MorningBird, 18 décembre 2009 - 07:05 .

[MorningBird]

Note: Sorry for the messed up formatting, Firefox ate it. (Y)

[Saurel]

MorningBird wrote...

becomes final boss evil master of the universe' line of thinking.  It's too obvious.  I want to be surprised.

Old God Battle Royale! Whos side are you on!?

Randy Savage: Oh ya!

[jth82]

what if the baby possesses morrigan instead?



that would be interesting

[MorningBird]

Saurel wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

becomes final boss evil master of the universe' line of thinking.  It's too obvious.  I want to be surprised.

Old God Battle Royale! Whos side are you on!?

Randy Savage: Oh ya!

Honestly?  The side with Chuck Norris.

Possibly Jesus, if Chuck Norris is otherwise preoccupied.

[JasonPogo]

Ok here is what I have to say to that MorningBird. I agree with you. It might have been Flemiths plan to posses the child since she is already possessed herself and the demon that gets rid of the person is there in her. Morrigan is on the other hand for all we know just human and like you said is not likely to go possessing anything.



But go back to when Morrigan is with you and you first meet Sten. She sees him as a proud strong creature that deserves to be let out to live. I think this is how she personally feels about the Old God. She says she dose not believe in the Maker or at least the chantry so she would see the Old Gods as simply powerful creatures that have been imprisoned like Sten was.



Also if you do Romance Morrigan we see that she is actually a big softy no matter how much she might hate it. I think she will love the child very much and encourage it to simply bloom to its full potential whatever that might be.

[Draco_13]

MorningBird wrote...



Honestly? The side with Chuck Norris.

Headline: Texas Ranger saves the god child ...

Well, that would be surprising.

[MorningBird]

JasonPogo wrote...

Ok here is what I have to say to that MorningBird. I agree with you. It might have been Flemiths plan to posses the child since she is already possessed herself and the demon that gets rid of the person is there in her. Morrigan is on the other hand for all we know just human and like you said is not likely to go possessing anything.

But go back to when Morrigan is with you and you first meet Sten. She sees him as a proud strong creature that deserves to be let out to live. I think this is how she personally feels about the Old God. She says she dose not believe in the Maker or at least the chantry so she would see the Old Gods as simply powerful creatures that have been imprisoned like Sten was.

Also if you do Romance Morrigan we see that she is actually a big softy no matter how much she might hate it. I think she will love the child very much and encourage it to simply bloom to its full potential whatever that might be.

And I have no qualms with any of the above. You see, I do not doubt that SHOULD Morrigan have a child, she COULD come to care about it. That, to me, is well within the relm of possibility.

What I can't stand is the number of people who conclude that:

Morrigan + God-child = Possession of god-child for world domination/other plotz.

With all that's happened between her and Flemeth, and Morrigan's general knowledge of the 'ways' of demons and spirits, I just can't see her as being 'eager' to jump into the body of a powerful spirit that may not be female.

Like I said, its predictable, and I like to be surprised.

Now, Morrigan in an awkward, yet somewhat loving relashionship with the spawn of a man she used to go questing with?  I would pay to see that.  That's got potencial!

[WowDek]

My vote is that Flemeth was not actually in the body of the old woman, but rather in the grimoire itself. So, regardless of your choice in how you help Morrigan, Flemeth has taken over Morrigan by the end of the game (or sometime soon after).



In this situation, it makes perfect sense that Flemeth would want a baby girl* with the soul of an old-god for nefarious purposes. (* I say girl because, comeon, it was dark ritual sex. You don't think she could persuade the X sperm to swim a bit faster and force the gender of her choice?)

[kevinwastaken]

Morrigan and baby will be in future plots. Book it, done.

[XOGHunter246]

as long as the child fit into her plans she will love i have a feeling the child thing will not go as morrigan planned as in it be out of control

[Lotion Soronarr]

MorningBird wrote...
But for arguement's sake, let's go with the 'God Baby' ending... from that, why would you assume that Morrigan would choose to 'possess' the child?  Say what you want about Morrigan, but my impression of her was that she adapts through experience, and if her experience with Flemeth taught her anything, you would think it would be something along the lines of:

"Kids do not generally appreciate it when their parents hide plans to possess their bodies and steal their youth/power for themselves.  Heck, they may even see murder as a viable response.  This is heavily counterproductive to staying alive.'

Or:

"Note to self: continual possession of random, pretty, powerful woman does not always equal a long, happy, and un-maimed existence."

I mean, what really confuses me here is that some people seem to think that Morrigan WANTS to be like Flemeth and go around possessing little girls.  During the beginning of DA, I always got the inkling that Morrigan cared for Flemeth (up until you find her Grimoire in the Circle Tower, anyway...) but that she also wanted to separate herself from her to some degree.

After all, if you inquire into Flemeth's past, Morrigan will reveal some of her thoughts on her 'mother'--mainly that she sees her as old and somewhat embittered by her past lives--and like all children, I think Morrigan viewed herself as being 'above' such behavior (after all, she's got a touch of a superiority complex).

So why, why, WHY would she then turn around and attempt to possess her own child? 

Bacause having somethin done to you and doing that something to others is not the same? Morrigan clearly doesn't want ot end up in the anvil, but would gladly dump others in it.

Let's face it - Morrigan is an amoral b****. The fact that she can fall in love with the PC (assuming that isn't an act too) means nothing. Hitler loved Eva Braun. Does that make him any less of a f***up? Any less of a monster?

Curious how some peopel think that someone can only be evil if he's hte cartoonish sort of evil - twirling moustache, sinister laugh and lack of love for nayone. Grow up. The biggest monsters in human history are also human.

[Ulicus]

Ah, reductio ad Hitlerum. Always a blast. I wonder if Godwin gets paid for that law of his. I hope so.

Anyhoot. If the Archbaby is featured in later games and isn't a potential player character, I'm expecting it to be male -- mainly because, High Dragon or not, the Old God Urthemiel is identified as male. That also offers a clear distinction between the "Flemeth-Morrigan" situation. I don't think that the Archbaby exists to be possessed. I really don't. I don't think that's Morrigan's goal, nor do I think it was Flemeth's. If anything, I suspect that the only reason Flemeth has been making her way through daughter to daughter is to absolutely ensure that she and her knowledge of how to perform the ritual were around when the Blight hit. I don't think Flemeth wants to be some "evil" fiend who possesses the children she's raised -- despite what she and Morrigan say about love, you can see the affection there, even if it's warped to some extent -- I do think, however, that she believes it to have been necessary.

(You know what? Flemeth = Andraste. You heard it here first. ) *

As for what Morrigan's plans for the Archbaby are? I think she's being genuine when she says it will represent "freedom" and I think that ties directly into her comments made earlier in the game that "apostate = freedom". In short, I'm hoping for the kid to grow up into some badass uber-Mage amalgamation of Merlin, Dionysus and Moses -- probably with a group of crazy wild women who like to tear their own sons' heads off following him about -- storming up to the Chanty-dominated Circles and demanding "let my people go!". The question would then be whether or not he's going to adopt Morrigan's "killing the Circle of Magi is saving them" attitude, or if he'll be more like Morrigan is after the PC can talk her down on that front.

* I'm not being entirely serious. I think it's more likely that Andraste was a being similar to whatever this Archbaby is going to grow up into.

Modifié par Ulicus, 18 décembre 2009 - 02:09 .

[oneshotgame]

MorningBird wrote...

Just out of curiosity... why all the obsession with Morrigan's 'maybe' baby?

I mean, first of all, not everyone chose to impregnate Morrigan and go through with her questionable ritual so that they could gift her with a god-like child that she could raise/manipulate in (possible) future installments DA.  Even if she were to somehow get knocked-up by ANOTHER Grey Warden in Orlais, the baby would just carry the taint, not the soul of an ancient god, and would therefore only be... well, Morrigan 2.0...

But for arguement's sake, let's go with the 'God Baby' ending... from that, why would you assume that Morrigan would choose to 'possess' the child?  Say what you want about Morrigan, but my impression of her was that she adapts through experience, and if her experience with Flemeth taught her anything, you would think it would be something along the lines of:

"Kids do not generally appreciate it when their parents hide plans to possess their bodies and steal their youth/power for themselves.  Heck, they may even see murder as a viable response.  This is heavily counterproductive to staying alive.'

Or:

"Note to self: continual possession of random, pretty, powerful woman does not always equal a long, happy, and un-maimed existence."

I mean, what really confuses me here is that some people seem to think that Morrigan WANTS to be like Flemeth and go around possessing little girls.  During the beginning of DA, I always got the inkling that Morrigan cared for Flemeth (up until you find her Grimoire in the Circle Tower, anyway...) but that she also wanted to separate herself from her to some degree.

After all, if you inquire into Flemeth's past, Morrigan will reveal some of her thoughts on her 'mother'--mainly that she sees her as old and somewhat embittered by her past lives--and like all children, I think Morrigan viewed herself as being 'above' such behavior (after all, she's got a touch of a superiority complex).

So why, why, WHY would she then turn around and attempt to possess her own child?  Because it’s got the soul of a god?  I don't think so, I mean, I've taken Morrigan with me for the Urn of Sacred Ashes, I've seen how she deals with demons in the Fade.  Once again, say what you want to about Morrigan, but you have to admit, she does not allow supernatural beings ANY quarter, because she was raised to recognize their various DANGERS.

Knowing what she knows, and then attempting to jump into the body of a GOD?  As of yet, I do not think her that reckless...

Not only that, but what have we learned about DEMON possession thus far?  A mage stops being a mage when they're under possession.  Their soul gets locked somewhere else, maybe it even gets torn from the body altogether--heck, maybe its the equiviment of DYING for a mage.

Flemeth possessing Morrigan would have definately KILLED her, in a sense.  Morrigan possessing a child with the soul of a god would effectively KILL that god, and if its the SOUL of that god that's got all this apparently desirable 'power', what happens when that soul is forced out of that body by another?

Lastly... what, and I'm just guessing here... WHAT if Morrigan gave birth to a BABY BOY?  I just CAN'T see her possessing the body of a man, for various reasons.  One, I do think she's vain and likes her own womanly curves.  Two, Flemeth raised her to seduce men, use them and then throw her away... I imagine this tactic of manipulation would lose a certain edge of effectiveness were she a man, but I digress.  Plus, there's the baby itself to consider... yes, let's talk about the baby, the 'future' boy/girl of Morrigan and the Grey Warden...

If the child were a boy (which I actually would find infinitely more fascinating) I don't think Morrigan would know what to do with it.  She wouldn't be able to raise a boy the way she was raised... say what you want, girls and boys ARE different, and we do need to be treated a little differently at such an early stage.

Morrigan has never before raised a boy... nor was she raised as a boy...  If a sequel containing Morrigan's child were ever to be made to DA, I think the character would turn out MUCH more interesting if they conflicted with Morrigan because of their different sex/possible beliefs.  If the little brat turned out being a Morrigan clone I would be quite put-out.

I liked Morrigan as a character, that's why I wouldn't like to see another one JUST like her... it would be recycling, and since it seems to be what everyone expects, also predictable.

Anyway, my two cents.  I know I probably sounded angry, but I'm not.  I just don't get how assumptions can be taken as fact when the devs did such a good job of keeping Morrigan a mystery.  I have no idea what they would plan to do with her baby, or if Morrigan and the little offspring will even be in a possible sequal.

However, I'd rather wait in anticipation of the writer's decisions than eat up the 'Morrigan possess baby and becomes final boss evil master of the universe' line of thinking.  It's too obvious.  I want to be surprised.

+1

wow, morningbird. the points you make there are pretty convincing.

[MorningBird]

WowDek wrote...

My vote is that Flemeth was not actually in the body of the old woman, but rather in the grimoire itself. So, regardless of your choice in how you help Morrigan, Flemeth has taken over Morrigan by the end of the game (or sometime soon after).

In this situation, it makes perfect sense that Flemeth would want a baby girl* with the soul of an old-god for nefarious purposes. (* I say girl because, comeon, it was dark ritual sex. You don't think she could persuade the X sperm to swim a bit faster and force the gender of her choice?)

But this is assuming that 1) you actually GIVE Morrigan the Grimoire and 2) you actually give her the robe of possession...

Which I didn't do my first playthrough. xD  What then?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Bacause having somethin done to you and doing that something to others is not the same? Morrigan clearly doesn't want ot end up in the anvil, but would gladly dump others in it.

Let's face it - Morrigan is an amoral b****. The fact that she can fall in love with the PC (assuming that isn't an act too) means nothing. Hitler loved Eva Braun. Does that make him any less of a f***up? Any less of a monster?

Curious how some peopel think that someone can only be evil if he's hte cartoonish sort of evil - twirling moustache, sinister laugh and lack of love for nayone. Grow up. The biggest monsters in human history are also human.

Did I ever say Morrigan was a character filled with sugar and syrup?  No.  Did I agree that it's within the realm of possibility for her to grow attachment to/have feelings for something?  Yes.  Did I suggest that it would be vastly more interesting for her to *gasp* grow a soul and care about something than to walk down the path everyone is EXPECTING?  Yes.

Is she also capable of great evil?  Yes, I'm not arguing that, so I hardly understand why you brought it up. =/  We even seem to be in agreement on the fact that EVIL =/= incapable of caring.

My point was mainly this:

1) Morrigan is a MAGE, albeit, one raised outside the circle.  Flemeth was her mentor.  She knows about DEMON possession and the trickster ways of spirits and pointedly gives them the finger throughout the game because they're not worth the risk a confrontation would cause.  A hunger for power =/= "Stupid enough to attempt possessing a GOD on the off chance that you MAY obtain god-like powers."

2) Mortals are fragile and can be messed with to a certain degree.  Some other beings are too dangerous to look in the eye.  If SPIRITS and DEMONS fall under this category, than I say ANCIENT GODS do as well.  It would be out of character for Morrigan to ignore demons and spirits and then attempt to usurp the body of a GOD.

3) The Circle was in shambles when you got there.  The Dalish were weakened by the curse.  The City Elves were locked up in cages and couldn't do anything to you.  In all these cases, YOU were in the position of power.  If the Circle was still strong, if the Dalish weren't cursed, and if the City Elves weren't being carted off to slavers I bet Morrigan would have been singing a different tune, because there's no advantage to be had there, just like there's no advantage in trying to outmaneuver a GOD who will most assuredly win the struggle. =/

4) She is incredibly vain, and there is no gaurantee that the baby is going to be a girl.  As I previously stated, I can't see Morrigan giving up her womanly curves for ultimate power.  It's just not happening.  Disagree with points 1-3 if you like, they're OPINIONS based off her character... but can anyone really argue with this? =/

5) Morrigan possessing the baby would be predictable, boring, and in my opinion, bad storytelling.  That doesn't mean it won't happen, but I'll be severly disappointed if it does.

And once again, for anyone else who may have misread my post:  YES, Morrigan is capable of being evil.  I just think it's the lamest outcome in the world for evil to = baby possession. -_____-

Modifié par MorningBird, 18 décembre 2009 - 05:07 .

[Felene]

I trust the Dog more than Morrigan.

Morrigan values power, so yeah, that is probably the reason why she wants to save the Old God.

She won't share her plan with the PC and will not stay, so I will say:

-She thinks the PC will disagree with her once she tell the truth plan

-She wants to raise the child without PC's influence

Morrigan is playing with fire in this case, so I also think she is not sure what will happen to the Old God child, she have to wait and see, thus, run away and hide.

[roybm]

it is clear in the game that Morrigan is going to use the child like her mother did. To extend her own life and live eternally.

Why else would she want her mother dead and out of the picture? (so she wouldn't interfere)

Why else would she want her mothers old grimoire? (to learn how her mother lived eternally)

And yet she wants to perform the same Dark Ritual with your character as her mother did as well.



I do not see her as a caring person in any way. She does far too many things in the game that shows she is not a caring person.

She is in it for herself.

[anillop]

Did any one else notice that if Alistar knocked up Morgan that not only will the child be an old gods soul in the body of a mage but it would also be the heir to the throne of Ferelden. While they likely could not inherit the title because they are a mage they would still be part of the bloodline of kings.

[Agni108]

I didnt do the ritual with her, nor did Alistair, yet she was still seen wandering through the Frostback mountains, and it was believed that she was with child--who was the father? In Redcliffe, Morrigan admits that conceiving this child, or performing this ritual, was the plan from the very beginning. It was why Flemeth sent her with you. So, I suspect that:

1. The expansion will take place in Orlais.
2. Morrigan's child will play a central role.

Other than that, the story is up for grabs. But these two things seem to be givens. Ferelden will likely be a distant memory, as Orlais was in this story, so I doubt that many, if any, of the current characters will re-appear in any significant manner. The legacy of this story will be carried by Morrigan's child, however "it" turns out.

Modifié par Agni108, 18 décembre 2009 - 05:43 .

[Numbnumb27]

Numbnumb27 wrote...

What if the father is an elf?
"Look I know he is my child! Just look at those ears!"
(Baby is nursing and lets out a firiey burp that singes one of Morrigan's nipples)
LOL

I apologize if this comment might have offended anyone but in a moment of insanity I just lost the seriousness of the entire discussion.
I do find this entire thread very interesting and the speculation over the sequel is compelling to read.  I do take all posts serious and find it very stimulating.  This game if very compelling the more you play it and the speculation of what may come is even more interesting.

[screwoffreg]

Morrigan being an important part, if not central, to a new plot is pretty clear. I could imagine several different powers that would be interesting in her or her child, Flemeth's spirit especially. Since the child has the spirit of an Old God, who is to say it won't trigger a disastrous new super-Blight as all sorts of evil creatures realize it lives above ground? Many ways to take this...