148 réponses à ce sujet

[shumworld]

His phase diruptor needs alot of improvement.

[D Amiri]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

He needs sword mastery.but he needs something else too though, the class is petty bad and probably the worst vanguard. Yes even worse than the drelllguard at least when said drellguard has grenade gear.Idk how you're supposed to buff him though.

Why is everyone hung up on sword mastery.  With fitness you can get larger melee, shield, and health bonuses than Sword Mastery.  SM gives the Shadow Piercing against one defense type while the Slayer can do more damage against the other two.  I would love the Speed bonus from SM but the Shadow has a SS speed bonus on to of that.  But SM doesn't have the Rank 6 shield bonus or Melee synergy, and has a 25% smaller Martial artist bonus for melee kills.  SM versus Fitness is not the issue.

[godlike13]

I was surprised his charge didn't have Melee synergy at least

Modifié par godlike13, 21 juillet 2012 - 09:38 .

[godlike13]

Gamemako wrote...

I assume you mean against your preferred target. Even then, you claim a 208% power damage bonus. You only get 95% base at max (50% from PD tree, 45% from Slayer tree) and can't get more than 55% from melee synergy and biotic charge (30% and 25%, respectively). What are you using, a level 4 power amp and a level 5 commando package? Or did you borrow this busted math from the last guy who claimed the same nonsense (that I called him out on)?

The reality is that PD deals about as much damage against your preferred target as you get out of a single round from your Piranha (which shoots 2.5 rounds per second). The only real advantage it has is the AoE, which is wonky as hell (it has something funky about the range, 'cause it's sure as hell not hitting over a 7.2m radius).

What he means is 720 * 3, as in he's can fire off 3 PD shots in secession at 720 a pop. More against armor or shields depending on upgrade.

Modifié par godlike13, 21 juillet 2012 - 09:12 .

[Gamemako]

Gamescook wrote...

spudspot wrote...

jerrinehart wrote...

Biotic Slash does more damage than Smash. I think people haven't figured this out yet.

Pardon me? It does the same damage (+- 50points) if you didn't take the range evo and less if you took it. And as I mentioned, Smash can be cast more often and primes BEs. (See my post above.)

I've played the Phoenix Vanguard for a good bit, and the Electrical Damage upgrade for Smash deals 50% damage over time (it isn't as clearly worded as it could be, frankly). Even at a much longer range, the long wind-up of Biotic Slash kind of evens out with or falls just short of Smash's raw power. And with the Slayer's teleporting dodge being buggy like Biotic Charge due to lag, you can be stuck in even more of a jam if enemies close in on you.

Biotic Slash needs to be slightly slightly SLIGHTLY improved.

Biotic Slash vs. Smash: Smash is dealing nearly identical base damage, except that it gets a +75% multiplier to barriers and armor and is considerably faster and more mobile. It also primes and detonates. In exchange, it has very short range. Is it fair to compare in this case?

Biotic Slash vs. Shockwave: Shockwave is dealing half the damage, but has considerable force. Shockwave has a lower radius as well. In exchange, Shockwave has no windup and can be spammed at twice the rate of Biotic Slash. It also has a higher detonation multiplier.

//EDIT: Nope, radius is 2m in both cases. My bad

In light of these, does Biotic Slash need a buff? Maybe a small one. 550 base damage to 600 base damage would probably be in order so that it could at least compete with Shockwave. But can you really justify a huge buff? Not really. The skills that are closest to Biotic Slash should serve as a guide, and I honestly just don't see room for a large buff in that context.

Diffamo wrote...

I don't know what people are talking about. Teledodge does NOT have invincibility frames. It just doesnt. Your character just changes locations instantly, and enemies that are computer controlled don't have to aim, they just lock onto you until they're done firing. So when you teledodge in front of them, their lock on just follows you to your new location. That's why an atlas missile can MEET you at your new location. That's why banshees can teleport to where you're going to be in a few seconds and then fingerbang you.

It's so quick that it's really hard to tell; however, I have seen nothing to indicate that you are invulnerable at any time. Heavy melee certainly offers no bonuses whatsoever -- of this I have video proof -- but light melee definitely offers bonuses

D Amiri wrote...

Why is everyone hung up on sword mastery.  With fitness you can get larger melee, shield, and health bonuses than Sword Mastery.  SM gives the Shadow Piercing against one defense type while the Slayer can do more damage against the other two.  I would love the Speed bonus from SM but the Shadow has a SS speed bonus on to of that.  But SM doesn't have the Rank 6 shield bonus or Melee synergy, and has a 25% smaller Martial artist bonus for melee kills.  SM versus Fitness is not the issue.

Not totally true. Both offer 65% base melee damage bonus. SM offers a 50% melee damage bonus after any melee kill, while Fitness offers a 75% melee damage bonus after a heavy melee kill as well as a 30% power damage bonus. Since the Slayer's heavy melee is decidedly awful, it's quite hard to get this bonus. In addition, SM offers a 35% health multiplier while Fitness built for melee offers 25%. SM then offers the two blade bonuses. Now, if you wanted to turn the Slayer into a melee specialist, offering SM instead of Fitness is the obvious solution. The max bonuses might not be as high, but they offer you much greater freedom (compared to frustration of trying to find something isolated to heavy melee). The final evolution could be left alone or changed, though it would make considerably more sense if it were changed (since electrical and fire are tech powers). I would encourage warp blade (+30% vs. barriers and armor, say) vs. power synergy (+50% power force and damage after sword kill) sort of evolution, but that's just me. It wouldn't outright fix the Slayer, but it would edge you closer to being a reasonable class.

godlike13 wrote...

I was surprised his charge didn't have Melee synergy at least

Also needed. How about power damage vs. melee damage? That would be a new dichotomy that would suit the class much better than weapon damage vs. power damage. Especially if Fitness/SM were addressed in such a way that lets you become a power juggernaut who needs blood to fuel his biotic death machine.

Modifié par Gamemako, 22 juillet 2012 - 05:36 .

[Trakarg]

Biotic slash needs an armor pen thing.

Melee damage needs a boost.

Phase disruptor is just lolbad.

[usctrojanbulldog]

I'd be so stoked if they buffed the slayer. I rock with him as is, a buff would place me at the destroyer level of destruction!

[SavagelyEpic]

godlike13 wrote...

I was surprised his charge didn't have Melee synergy at least

Give me melee synergy and buff the phase disruptor and I'm good.

Edit: Oh, and make Charge actually work half the time I press it...

Modifié par SavagelyEpic, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:40 .

[SavagelyEpic]

I take it back. He's terrible on gold or above. Passable on silver.

[GGW KillerTiger]

Carnagedude504 wrote...

There isn't anything besides the Phase Disruptor to buff IMO, everything on the Slayer is severely OP except that ability.

Can they fix Phase Disruptor first? I mean the evolution that says it will only take up 1/4th the barrier not 1/2 but it actually makes it 1/3rd not 1/2 the barrier.

[Dream-Maker]

IMO he's fine, I used him a few times on gold matches with randoms with great success. Phase disruptor is awesome so is biotic slash. And charge helps giving a great survivability along with teleports.

My char is not specced for melee but it's true that the melee route seems to lack something. I don't get why the class doesn't have a biotic version of sword mastery like the shadow. Slashing everything is fun but the risk/reward doesn't seem to be there, I may be wrong though, need to hear from people who are rolling a pure melee build.

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 22 juillet 2012 - 12:38 .

[1490]

I don't think he needs a buff. I've done very well with him on the harder difficulties, better than I do with most other vanguards in fact.

[SavagelyEpic]

Dream-Maker wrote...

IMO he's fine, I used him a few times on gold matches with randoms with great success. Phase disruptor is awesome so is biotic slash. And charge helps giving a great survivability along with teleports.

My char is not specced for melee but it's true that the melee route seems to lack something. I don't get why the class doesn't have a biotic version of sword mastery like the shadow. Slashing everything is fun but the risk/reward doesn't seem to be there, I may be wrong though, need to hear from people who a rolling a pure melee build.

I have a pure melee build- It's a ton of fun, but your greatest vulnerability is getting staggered. That and the sheer number of enemies on gold+.

It's passable on silver/bronze, but I wouldn't bring it to gold. And even for the bottom two difficulties you're screwed the moment an objective wave hits. Soloing the entire opposing army on wave 11 might actually be easier than some of the objectives, even on wave 6.

[Stardusk]

I think the melee needs the most buff, biggest issue.

[spudspot]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

Carnagedude504 wrote...

There isn't anything besides the Phase Disruptor to buff IMO, everything on the Slayer is severely OP except that ability.

Can they fix Phase Disruptor first? I mean the evolution that says it will only take up 1/4th the barrier not 1/2 but it actually makes it 1/3rd not 1/2 the barrier.

It seems to be meant the following way: Reduce barrier consumption by 25% => 75% of 50% base barrier consumption = 37,5% barrier consumption. I was a bit confused myself... (But I guess if they had intended 4 PD-blasts, they would've described it as "Reduce barrier consumption to 25%", or something alike.)

Modifié par spudspot, 22 juillet 2012 - 12:33 .

[Stardusk]

spudspot wrote...

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

Carnagedude504 wrote...

There isn't anything besides the Phase Disruptor to buff IMO, everything on the Slayer is severely OP except that ability.

Can they fix Phase Disruptor first? I mean the evolution that says it will only take up 1/4th the barrier not 1/2 but it actually makes it 1/3rd not 1/2 the barrier.

It seems to be meant the following way: Reduce barrier consumption by 25% => 75% of 50% base barrier consumption = 37,5% barrier consumption. I was a bit confused myself... (But I guess if they had intended 4 PD-blasts, they would've described it as "Reduce barrier consumption to 25%", or something alike.)

TBH I have been ignoring Phase Disruptor. I find B. Slash more useful.

[spudspot]

Stardusk wrote...

TBH I have been ignoring Phase Disruptor. I find B. Slash more useful.

I don't know, I just feel uncomfortable with the long slash animation. While it may not be the most effective Slayer build, so far I've gotten the most fun out of him with PD, full health spec, stronghold package and a Piranha. It's just very versatile, melee to port and to take out the occasional Husk, PD to stagger and do quite some damage against shields and barriers, Piranha to take care of the rest.

Not to mention the nice flow the class has that way, you always have several options to attack and there's no 2s animation getting in your way. (I should add that I really don't like long animations on powers, should I?)

Modifié par spudspot, 22 juillet 2012 - 12:52 .

[MrScottBear]

Kind of odd that the Electric Slash from the Shadow has Force enough to knock a Pyro off it's feet but Biotic has 0 force. How annoying.

Modifié par MrScottBear, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:31 .

[DHKany]

Tried it at a friend's. The Phase Disruptor has some strange lag from when you press R2 (im on PS3) til it actually fires. thats killing the power for me+ the base damage is pretty low for taking down 50% shields.

[Vault Boy X360]

If they allowed us to map buttons then we wouldn't have to worry about the forward dodge so much. Also make Biotic Charge easier to aim. So please BW, let us map buttons on the 360. That would be an easy buff to make.

Modifié par Vault Boy X360, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:16 .

[Booshnickins]

I actually like the Slayer more than the Shadow. I find him to be more powerful.

[mrcanada]

Booshnickins wrote...

I actually like the Slayer more than the Shadow. I find him to be more powerful.

It isn't.

[mrcanada]

DHKany wrote...

Tried it at a friend's. The Phase Disruptor has some strange lag from when you press R2 (im on PS3) til it actually fires. thats killing the power for me+ the base damage is pretty low for taking down 50% shields.

PD is L2, but you're right.  There is horribad lag from when you press it to when it fires.  This isn't exclusive to just this though, I find this happens on a game to game basis with a lot of abilities on the PS3.  Can't speak for any other platform though.

[Stardusk]

godlike13 wrote...

I was surprised his charge didn't have Melee synergy at least

This...

[UB3RD4NG]

Having just listened to stardusk's platinum talk, and extracted quite a few games there, I guess I'm not as inclined to advocate major buffs to the slayer, just because many classes have been rendered obsolete by platinum. My issue had been that he simply functions well in no role on platinum, and to a lesser extent on gold for the unskilled player.

Now... I guess I Am content to skirmish and hack and slash my way to second and occasionally first place on gold, since platinum isn't very fun anyways. That is not to say I think the Slayer is good - he certainly is several notches below all the other N7 characters - but that I can have my cake and eat it on gold, without even bothering with platinum.

I still would like to see the bugs stated above fixed though, and an improvement on melee damage, locking, and animation (primarily sheathing). If platinum were "fixed", I'd go back to clamoring for major changes though =P